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paprikapink
11-28-2007, 10:39 AM
KTC's old "got menopause (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81698&highlight=menopause)" thread is a good start, but maybe it's not the definitive menopause thread. The joke is funny, but it puts me to thinkin' of a recurring theme associated with menopause...it's all the annoyances accumulated over years and years up with which the speaker will no longer put! Isn't that a common theme of menopausal (or even PMSal) women?

This gets me to wondering, is it that menopause makes us grumpy? or does menstruation make us wimpy, less likely to complain, more inclined to gloss over and be nice?

It's just a thought.

A. Hamilton
11-28-2007, 12:36 PM
Not quite there, but I'm definitely losing patience fussing over the foo-foo. Life's too short.
And I can't imagine missing the monthly-nope, good reason to be a bit cheerier once a month.
(yeah yeah, tell that to my hormones)

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 02:09 PM
I can't help but post to this. It really gets to me that people focus so much on women's hormones, as if they rule the day. I don't believe for one moment that that is true.

Yes they may play a part in how we are feeling from day to day but only a part. It isn't like we are mindless puppets at the mercy of hormonal swings. There are many things that help us deal with the effects of hormones and they are accessible for each woman.

But why all this focusing on women and their moods? I mean come on, men are JUST as moody if not more so but they get away with it because we think they are just being "men".

I don't see people running around trying to "fix" them.

Okay so that is my two cents worth and the end of my rant.



For now. :D

aruna
11-28-2007, 03:59 PM
I can't help but post to this. It really gets to me that people focus so much on women's hormones, as if they rule the day. I don't believe for one moment that that is true.

Yes they may play a part in how we are feeling from day to day but only a part. It isn't like we are mindless puppets at the mercy of hormonal swings. There are many things that help us deal with the effects of hormones and they are accessible for each woman.

But why all this focusing on women and their moods? I mean come on, men are JUST as moody if not more so but they get away with it because we think they are just being "men".

I don't see people running around trying to "fix" them.

Okay so that is my two cents worth and the end of my rant.



For now. :D

Amen, a hundred times amen to that!
I absolutely refuse to believe that I am at the mercy of my hormones. And I have known men to be just as moody as women are said to be. My husband most certainly is, and so is my son. In fact, in my family the women are far more stable and emotionally dependable than the men. My daughter right now is an absolute rock to me and the family through an incredibly difficult time, and she's only 17. (Tell you about it sometime!)

I did not experience one single of the negative symptoms of menopause; neither hot flashes nor any kind of crankiness. I also never had PMS, PMT or any of that. I am getting older; I have about 6 grey hairs and I am not as sprightly as I used to be. I feel stiff in the morning, whereas I used to leap out of bed fresh as a puppy.

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Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:18 PM
I have a daughter and two sons. Let me tell you, she is far more reasonable and less moody than my sons. I suspect if men were allowed to be more open about things we would see them more stable and less prone to be "moody".

I for one celebrate my hormones and emotions. It's what makes me a woman. Instead of dreading my body's cycles, I recognize their importance and work with it rather than against it. After all what good does it do to bang one's head against the wall? I just keep on going.

I hope I don't alienate anyone with this comment but really, I think all the fuss over female hormones are attention seeking. And I don't mean the occasional complaint about hot hot flashes or monthly cycles, I am talking about those who let it disable them and lay about as if their life is coming to an end.

Who has time for that?

aruna
11-28-2007, 04:26 PM
I once had a boyfriend. He was PhD student in Psychology at Harvard, no less. We lived in a sort of commune in a big house in Cambridge, Mass.
The owner of the house told me I could have a corner of the basement to set up a table where I could do a job I had taken on (remember a company claled Illuminations back in the 80's? I worked for them, staplimg decals on to pieces of cardboard!)
So I went to the basement and move a few pieces of stuff out of a corner to prepare a space for myself. These things happened to belong to my so-called boyfriend. He threw a tantrum, yelled at me till he was blue in the face about "invadiing his space".
Another time I put something I had bought for both of us in his room (the doors in that house were never locked). Again, he threw a tantrum like a 2 year old and yelled me out like he was king and I his little servant. Needless to say that relationship did not last long.
When my son gets angry you cannot talk to him. He just yells like there was no tomorrow. Yes, apologizes afterwards but geez, can't he control himself????

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:34 PM
Oh dear, that's not what I mean by men being able to express themselves.

I have never cottoned to the idea that tantrums are appropriate on either side of the gender discussions, for any reason. Am I perfect? well, no.

I hate yelling. I hate doing it and I hate it be done to me. I always feel traumatized.

So one asks, is this hormonally driven and one has no choice? I don't think it's a no choice situation. A child has a tantrum until taught better. As adults we are meant to be able to control our reactions. Notice I say reactions, not emotions.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-28-2007, 04:36 PM
I refused to let menopause make me thoroughly crazy - I welcomed it as an end to the visits from Aunt Flo. I have, however, seen women who went certifiably nuts. I believe it's like anything else in life - some people can handle it, some can't. Some have more severe reactions than others. There were a few days in there where it was a good thing I didn't have easy access to a gun... and I'm about to freeze Ol' Boy out of the bed (I have to have the ceiling fan going AND a window unit AC going at night, even with central air! And I still have to throw the covers off some nights - even in the winter!) but overall, it hasn't been too bad.

Ol' Boy may have another opinion... but he has wisely chosen to keep it to himself and say, "No... it hasn't been too bad," as he reaches for another afghan...

KTC
11-28-2007, 04:37 PM
Wow. I have no recollection of that thread. I just fling 'em all willy nilly like, don't I.

OFG...but you are thoroughly crazy?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-28-2007, 04:38 PM
Where's that gun...

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:38 PM
I refused to let menopause make me thoroughly crazy - I welcomed it as an end to the visits from Aunt Flo. I have, however, seen women who went certifiably nuts. I believe it's like anything else in life - some people can handle it, some can't. Some have more severe reactions than others. There were a few days in there where it was a good thing I didn't have easy access to a gun... and I'm about to freeze Ol' Boy out of the bed (I have to have the ceiling fan going AND a window unit AC going at night, even with central air! And I still have to throw the covers off some nights - even in the winter!) but overall, it hasn't been too bad.

Ol' Boy may have another opinion... but he has wisely chosen to keep it to himself and say, "No... it hasn't been too bad," as he reaches for another afghan...*nods* but I can't imagine you laying about and refusing to carry on with life because "it's just too hard." You are a go getter Jen, and I am sure Ol' boy adores you...icy temps and all. ;)

KTC
11-28-2007, 04:40 PM
Where's that fan...


Why? Are you experiencing hot flashes?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-28-2007, 04:42 PM
My words... they're being manipulated... it's like that cartoon with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck where Bugs keeps drawing Daffy into embarrassing costumes and situations... kinda like that avatar of the Colonel's...

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-28-2007, 04:44 PM
*nods* but I can't imagine you laying about and refusing to carry on with life because "it's just too hard." You are a go getter Jen, and I am sure Ol' boy adores you...icy temps and all. ;)

No... I love Ol' Boy too much to make him suffer.

Well... except for that temperature thing... I just keep lots of afghans, quilts and blankets around for him. And long johns. :D

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:46 PM
No... I love Ol' Boy too much to make him suffer.

Well... except for that temperature thing... I just keep lots of afghans, quilts and blankets around for him. And long johns. :D

*giggling* oh NOW there's an image for you. The long johns bit. ;)

aruna
11-28-2007, 04:48 PM
Wow. I have no recollection of that thread. I just fling 'em all willy nilly like, don't I.



No. You were having a hot flash.

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Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:50 PM
I've always wondered...do men have hot flashes? And I am not talking about their sexual appetites here. ;)

aruna
11-28-2007, 04:50 PM
My husband is extremely emotional. He cries almost every day. It has to do with the fact that he now has Parkinsons diesaese and had to retire and has lost all his securities. He is 64 and if he were a woman people would say he is menopausal. Just this morning he cried because I left the house.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:53 PM
My husband is extremely emotional. He cries almost every day. It has to do with the fact that he now has Parkinsons diesaese and had to retire and has lost all his securities. He is 64 and if he were a woman people would say he is menopausal. Just this morning he cried because I left the house.

awww...aruna *hugs for you both* That's got to be such a challenge for you both.

Perks
11-28-2007, 04:53 PM
I have, however, seen women who went certifiably nuts. I believe it's like anything else in life - some people can handle it, some can't. Some have more severe reactions than others.

I think this is important. I have never been pretzeled by my hormones, neither in my cycle, nor with pregnancy, and I think it's valuable to take a moment when you feel the crazy coming on to double check if there is really anything wrong. I do this. "Hang on, wait, is this really a big problem? No. Okay, I must be hormonal."

But that's my experience and I feel fortunate. I'd be hard-pressed to tell women crippled by the pharmacist in their heads and bellies to snap out of it. I think that would rather be like yelling at someone with OCD, "Just stop DOING it!" Or someone with depression from serotonin imbalance to not let it get to them.

There's a line where disorders are an excuse for ridiculous behavior, but there's a good bit on the far side of that line that allows for understanding and support.

KTC
11-28-2007, 04:56 PM
I never had a single hotflash in my life. I've never been anything but cold. Is it chilly in here?

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 04:58 PM
*gives KTC a blanket*

I haven't entered menopause yet though some say I should have or soon enough and maybe I will become a certifiable loon. I am hoping I will be able to do what Perks just said.

Nice post Perks.

aruna
11-28-2007, 05:00 PM
But that's my experience and I feel fortunate. I'd be hard-pressed to tell women crippled by the pharmacist in their heads and bellies to snap out of it. I think that would rather be like yelling at someone with OCD, "Just stop DOING it!" Or someone with depression from serotonin imbalance to not let it get to them.



Right, I would never tell anyone to snap out of it, male or female. I know how difficult this can be if you are caught up in it. Bu I think that we can learn better strategies in the times we are strong, to deal with the times when we feel weak. I am lucky to have had wonderful people who helped me along when I was younger. Not everyone is this fortunate.

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aruna
11-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Why do all of my posts have a little 0 at the end? I swear I don't put them there.

aruna
11-28-2007, 05:02 PM
O. Not all my posts.
Maybe just the ones where I delete a sentence.
Let's try.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 05:03 PM
I must confess though, it's very hard not to tell some people to just snap out of it after years of seeing them do nothing to help themselves. I understand real problems and then there's my mother (yes it's a-I hate my mother moment) who will use every excuse in the book for her bad behaviour. Menopause was just another one. Had her moods and actions completely changed during menopause I would have believed it hormonal.

She's just mean. ;)

KTC
11-28-2007, 05:04 PM
I don't see a 0 O

Perks
11-28-2007, 05:08 PM
I must confess though, it's very hard not to tell some people to just snap out of it after years of seeing them do nothing to help themselves. I understand real problems and then there's my mother (yes it's a-I hate my mother moment) who will use every excuse in the book for her bad behaviour. Menopause was just another one. Had her moods and actions completely changed during menopause I would have believed it hormonal.

She's just mean. ;)I tremble when I read this. Not because it's wrong, but because I have at least two people in my life that make me want to scream. It's so outrageously hard to restrain yourself as common sense and courtesy are trampled under the feet of what really looks like willfully difficult people.

Uh oh. How am I going to deal with them when I get the menopause-thingy?

dolores haze
11-28-2007, 05:11 PM
What about post-partum depression? Hormonal, right? I didn't suffer from it myself (thankfully), but a person I know very well did. She wanted to be relaxed and happy, but couldn't. She truly seemed to be being ruled by her hormones, through no fault of her own. It was a terrible struggle for her. I would think that it is accurate to say that she was at the mercy of her hormones, no?

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 05:11 PM
I tremble when I read this. Not because it's wrong, but because I have at least two people in my life that make me want to scream. It's so outrageously hard to restrain yourself as common sense and courtesy are trampled under the feet of what really looks like willfully difficult people.

Uh oh. How am I going to deal with them when I get the menopause-thingy?

Oh how I know this feeling all too well. I have had to learn to avoid willfully difficult people. I am far too polite and end up putting up with too much verbal abuse. I would never tell my mom she's mean, I just don't speak to her.

I can only hope Perks when we are faced with the challenge of menopause that we have a role of duct tape handy and the will power to take our mouths shut. ;)

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 05:15 PM
What about post-partum depression? Hormonal, right? I didn't suffer from it myself (thankfully), but a person I know very well did. She wanted to be relaxed and happy, but couldn't. She truly seemed to be being ruled by her hormones, through no fault of her own. It was a terrible struggle for her. I would think that it is accurate to say that she was at the mercy of her hormones, no?

I really don't want to be taken the wrong way. Post-partum depression is REAL. Frighteningly so for some people. But are they at the mercy of it? Only if they don't know where or how to get help.


What I am referring to is people who LIVE to be miserable and tell everyone about it. Kinda like me and my pathetic I'm sick thread. ;)

Some people would rather have attention for their problems then to get help for them. I would never want anyone to think I mean that those who complain fit into that catagory. We all know who they are. :D

Perks
11-28-2007, 05:18 PM
What about post-partum depression? Hormonal, right? I didn't suffer from it myself (thankfully), but a person I know very well did. She wanted to be relaxed and happy, but couldn't. She truly seemed to be being ruled by her hormones, through no fault of her own. It was a terrible struggle for her. I would think that it is accurate to say that she was at the mercy of her hormones, no?Excellent example. PPD and PPP (post-partum psychosis) is truly frightening.

Perks
11-28-2007, 05:26 PM
I really don't want to be taken the wrong way. Post-partum depression is REAL. Frighteningly so for some people. But are they at the mercy of it? Only if they don't know where or how to get help.


I think they are at the mercy of it. And it's difficult to treat, even when you know to seek help. It's a very intense hormonal shift and it causes very real changes in the brain.

I think in the case of all of these examples - from true medical disorders to cranky and unpleasant dispositions, the only thing we can control is our reaction to them.

If it's worth it to put up with them, then we'll filter their behaviors through as much knowledge and compassion as we can muster. If it ain't, it ain't. And it's good to examine the whys and wherefores to justify, at least to ourselves, why we aren't putting up with it.

dolores haze
11-28-2007, 05:26 PM
What I am referring to is people who LIVE to be miserable and tell everyone about it. Kinda like me and my pathetic I'm sick thread. ;)


Gotcha!
Back when I was a supervisor I had to have a talk with a young lady who thought it was perfectly acceptable to take a couple of days off work every month because she was on her period. She was shocked when I told her I would start requiring a note from her doctor for this. She was genuinely shocked - she thought that counted as being "sick". Her mother had raised her that way.

Perks
11-28-2007, 05:33 PM
Shhhh. You guys do know that PMS and menopausal trials have been successfully used as bolsters to temporary insanity pleas in murder cases, right?

Don't screw this up for me, ladies.

CaroGirl
11-28-2007, 05:35 PM
Some hormonal shifts can cause mental illness, as in the case of PPD. Women with depression and PPD can't just snap out of it. It doesn't work that way.

When it comes to my hormones, I can feel when I'm PMS-ing and out of sorts for no reason other than the time of the month. I'm open about it with my husband so he knows that it's not him. (He has a tendency to think the world revolves around him.) Outside those few times (it's not every month) I'm very emotionally stable and calm.

Menopause should be an interesting experience. I have no idea what to expect. I hope it goes by quickly and painlessly, but we'll see.

aruna
11-28-2007, 05:38 PM
Oh, I'm not denying that these hormonal changes are real. I'm just suggesting that we CAN train ourselves--before they even appear--to deal with them so that they do not rule us, but we rule them. Of that, I am convinced.

CaroGirl
11-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Oh, I'm not denying that these hormonal changes are real. I'm just suggesting that we CAN train ourselves--before they even appear--to deal with them so that they do not rule us, but we rule them. Of that, I am convinced.
I agree with you when it comes to simple PMS, but not PPD. No woman can predict it and no woman can fight it.

aruna
11-28-2007, 05:55 PM
I don't believe in fighting anyway; and once it's there, it's there. But I believe it is possible -- if we start early enough -- to sort of immune ourselves to such mood swings and states of mind, so that they don't come in the first place! There are several techniques that can be learned to keep our minds in balance so thatg it never gets to that stage where we are swamped by depression.
I have never had depression so maybe I am speaking out of turn; but I have had to deal with severe situations where i have had to lead my mind out of destructive thought patterns. It is hard, but it can be done. I don't believe that these states just befall us.

Perks
11-28-2007, 05:59 PM
I wonder about what you've said here, Aruna. I've had the blues, but never honest, clinical depression, although it runs strongly in my family - to the point they don't function even close to normally. The way I think about things, and the exercises I conditioned myself with from an early age is very, very different from the way the other members of my family do things and view how the world works.

But I've never been able to satisfy the question: do I do it to fight my chemistry, or does my chemistry allow me to fight what their's doesn't.

Chickens and eggs and I absolutely cannot decide which way it works.

aruna
11-28-2007, 06:04 PM
I The way I think about things, and the exercises I conditioned myself with from an early age is very, very different from the way the other members of my family do things and view how the world works.

But I've never been able to satisfy the question: do I do it to fight my chemistry, or does my chemistry allow me to fight what their's doesn't.

Chickens and eggs and I absolutely cannot decide which way it works.

Well, that's the crux of the matter, isn't it? But I believe that there is a mental "source", or spring of well-being, that is outside the chicken-and-egg paradigm, and that that would be the secret.
(edited to add: there's that 0 again!)
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aruna
11-28-2007, 06:18 PM
I'm not really speaking without experience. My husband has been suffering from severe depression these last two years, brought on by his illness. But you know, knowing the way he is, knowing the way he was brought up, knowing his mother, knowing the attitude towards life that dominates in that family, knowing his complete inability to direct his mind away from negative thoughts and fears, I believe that this depression was almost pre-programmed.
This might sound as if I'm saying it;s his own fault, as if I'm blaming him or his mother; I'm not. But I do see that he grew up without any strategies whatsoever for learning how to be happy; that even years ago, when he was a pretty much normally functioning individual, without any signs of depression, even then he easily let himself be eaten up by fears of the future; even then he hung his faith in and his security in unreliable anchors. And when those anchors fell away, as they have done over the past year, what was left but to fall into depression?
I know and feel his agony, and I know how helpless he feels. It seems so easy to me to say do this, do that and you will feel better; but at this stage of the illness it is just not possible. I absolutely believe that had he known different strategies from childhood this would never had happened.
But knowing that family that is just too much to ask.
It is an excrutiatingly difficult time. I feel like a cold-blooded carthorse pulling a dead elephant through a bog. But sometimes I get a smile or even a laugh from him, and I know the life is still there, deep inside. I hang on to that.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Here's the thing for me ladies, I always cut people slack. Men and women alike. Life is hard at the best of times. My daughter has such crippling cramps and I have watched her work in spite of the pain with her clients and then she will come to me, (she doesn't live at home anymore) collapse on the couch in tears and panic because the pain is THAT bad.

However, I have never once seen her "take it out" on others. So in that way I THINK I know what aruna is saying.

The way I handle my hormones is through nutrition, (those of you who know me through the healthy diet thread knew that was coming didn't you? ;) ) and exercise. I am not joking when I say I have a punching bag in my basement family room. When I get hormonally challenged I go beat the daylights out of that thing. My kids KNOW when Mommy is working out, we don't bother her. :D

It is rare when someone knows I am cycling because I hate the stigma that goes with, oh she's pmsing AGAIN. It's demeaning.

I mean come on, let's face it. How would the guys feel if we turned to them every time they got cranky and said, "ain't gettin any are ya?"?

However tempting that might be...*giggle* I think it's a put down.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm not really speaking without experience. My husband has been suffering from severe depression these last two years, brought on by his illness. But you know, knowing the way he is, knowing the way he was brought up, knowing his mother, knowing the attitude towards life that dominates in that family, knowing his complete inability to direct his mind away from negative thoughts and fears, I believe that this depression was almost pre-programmed.
This might sound as if I'm saying it;s his own fault, as if I'm blaming him or his mother; I'm not. But I do see that he grew up without any strategies whatsoever for learning how to be happy; that even years ago, when he was a pretty much normally functioning individual, without any signs of depression, even then he easily let himself be eaten up by fears of the future; even then he hung his faith in and his security in unreliable anchors. And when those anchors fell away, as they have done over the past year, what was left but to fall into depression?
I know and feel his agony, and I know how helpless he feels. It seems so easy to me to say do this, do that and you will feel better; but at this stage of the illness it is just not possible. I absolutely believe that had he known different strategies from childhood this would never had happened.
But knowing that family that is just too much to ask.
It is an excrutiatingly difficult time. I feel like a cold-blooded carthorse pulling a dead elephant through a bog. But sometimes I get a smile or even a laugh from him, and I know the life is still there, deep inside. I hang on to that.


What I understand you to be talking about is coping skills. That IS a very important thing for us to learn and let's face it, many people didn't teach that back when your husband was growing up. My heart goes out to people with such debilitating illnesses as your husband and my complete admiration to you for your unwavering care of him.

You are an amazing woman, aruna.

aruna
11-28-2007, 06:39 PM
The way I handle my hormones is through nutrition, (those of you who know me through the healthy diet thread knew that was coming didn't you? ;) ) and exercise. I am not joking when I say I have a punching bag in my basement family room. When I get hormonally challenged I go beat the daylights out of that thing. My kids KNOW when Mommy is working out, we don't bother her. :D

Oh, how I wish I could take you to Bill's in Brighton!!! You'd fall over and die on the spot.
My own magic forumula is meditation. It's mana for the mind and works every time.


It is rare when someone knows I am cycling because I hate the stigma that goes with, oh she's pmsing AGAIN. It's demeaning.

I mean come on, let's face it. How would the guys feel if we turned to them every time they got cranky and said, "ain't gettin any are ya?"?

However tempting that might be...*giggle* I think it's a put down.

How I agree with you. I just think there is never any excuse for being mean to others.
My daughter, too suffers from bad cramps but she faces them bravely. I don't know about PMS but she is never cranky or mean, quite the opposite.

I remember once standing with her at a check-out counter at Tesco; the cashier was quite flustered and upset about something or other, and was quarreling with another cashier while we waited. I was starting to get irritated, but when she finally turned to us my daughter just said, in a really nice friendly voice, "Have you had a stressful day?" and smiled at her. Immediately that cashier melted and turned into the loveliest, chattiest person.
Sometimes it just takes a word, a song, a thought, a smile, to launch us out of those swamps.

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CaroGirl
11-28-2007, 06:43 PM
There is a theory that states people have a preset level of happiness (probably a combination of nature and nurture). Whether you win the lottery or lose a loved one, you eventually come back to rest at that level, and I believe this to be true. I'm a generally positive person and have returned to being myself after every significant life event, good or terrible.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 06:45 PM
That is just how my daughter and I are, aruna. My boys too I suppose now that I think of it. We'd rather brighten someone's day when they are clearly upset rather than let them ruin ours.

Here is a moment from my stay here. I was out having drinks with jvc, yes our dragony mod is still alive and well. He went to the loo for a moment and when he came back I was sitting at a nearby table with two gentlemen who called upon me for some advice. We sat with them for a few minutes longer and then we retired to our own table.

His comment to me was, "I don't think I've ever seen that before." Where ever I am people seek me out to speak to me and it is just how it is. Not because I am some fabulous beauty but I think it's because I genuinely love people and believe in their inherent goodness.

So when I see someone milking it for all it's worth, I remember my compassion and realise even they are struggling. :D

And I have found that in cheering up others and speaking to those who are lonely and otherwise ignored, I make a bigger difference for myself as well. It doesn't hurt to be kind and generous, it builds character. :D

okay preaching over.

0 (had to put it there so aruna doesn't feel all alone)

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 06:49 PM
There is a theory that states people have a preset level of happiness (probably a combination of nature and nurture). Whether you win the lottery or lose a loved one, you eventually come back to rest at that level, and I believe this to be true. I'm a generally positive person and have returned to being myself after every significant life event, good or terrible.hmmm...I don't like to think that's true. I want to have more happiness and I have quite a bit now. :D

aruna
11-28-2007, 06:52 PM
hmmm...I don't like to think that's true. I want to have more happiness and I have quite a bit now. :D


I don't think it's true either! I think the quantity (and quality!) of happiness avaialble to us is unlimited and can grow beyond measure... we just have to grow it ourselves!
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(see? see? there is that egg again!)

NeuroFizz
11-28-2007, 06:55 PM
1. The evidence that hormones (particularly the pituitary and gonadal sex hormones) impact behavior is immense and unequivocal.

2. Many of the posts above stand out as really ironic (in the context of menopause--this is not meant to be insulting, just intriguing).

3. My perception (from observation and inquiry about the subject):

When a life is spent
rounding edges,
how cruel to wake up
late in life
and find them all
stropped so sharp


I have been told it (some aspects of menopause) doesn't alter the basic "shape" of things, it just puts an edge on it all. Feel free to add to my data set, and if you must engage in human sacrifice, I'm not a moving target.

aruna
11-28-2007, 06:58 PM
1. The evidence that hormones (particularly the pituitary and gonadal sex hormones) impact behavior is immense and unequivocal.





I'm not saying they don't, Neuro! I'm saying we can impact them right back. We do not have to be at their mercy, if we choose not to be. We have the choice.


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aruna
11-28-2007, 07:03 PM
When a life is spent
rounding edges,
how cruel to wake up
late in life
and find them all
stropped so sharp




For me, its quite the other way around. What was ragged and jagged in my youth, is now becoming rounded and full and peaceful. I love my Fifties, and look forward with great anticipation to the Sixties, to even better things to come! And it has nothing to do with the challenges that life has thrown at me, which at the moment are pretty monumental.

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dolores haze
11-28-2007, 07:06 PM
I'm not saying they don't, Neuro! I'm saying we can impact them right back, We do not have to be at their mercy, if we choose not to be. We have the choice.


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The importance of awareness of what is happening in our bodies cannot be overstated. If I'm cranky, and I know it's due to PMS, then the understanding of why I'm feeling this way helps immensely, and I can adjust accordingly.
I worked for many years with individuals impacted by mental retardation. It was extremely common to see massive spikes in aggressive behavior in female clients according to their menstrual cycle. Being unable to intellectually understand what was going on in their bodies made it extremely difficult for them to adjust their behavior.

nerds
11-28-2007, 07:08 PM
I really don't want to be taken the wrong way. Post-partum depression is REAL. Frighteningly so for some people. But are they at the mercy of it? Only if they don't know where or how to get help.

What I am referring to is people who LIVE to be miserable and tell everyone about it.


Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. :)

I certainly don't think anyone should be self-defined or socially defined by their hormones, but they sure are a factor for some. There are women who do get through all the stages of menopause pretty smoothly, and lots who do not. I'm not done yet, but I'm finally through the worst of it, and there were times when I could basically feel that my brain was awash in a chemical/hormone bath. Times when I didn't know myself at all, really quite rough.

But I asked for lots of advice from friends (since the only other alternative was to hang myself) and started a heavy course of natural stuff like evening primrose, etc., which I'm still on. These helped straighten me out and helped me get some control over what was going on in my body. I mean, for awhile I WAS all the stupid mood jokes - they're crummy jokes, but there was truth in them in my case, definitely. It was awful, I was awful.

Not everyone gets smacked down by their hormones, but it does happen, and it can make a person genuinely nuts. Crucial to recognize it, take action, seek help, advice, compare notes with those who have been through it, whether it's post-partum or menopause.

I'm 1000% better than I was, and I'm real me again, but I won't be sorry when I'm finally done with the whole enchilada. Blah. It's been exhausting. You just can't let it win, if you want a life.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 07:10 PM
I guess, what I really feel is this:

No matter your circumstances, bad behaviour is never excusable. Aware or not of what is causing it, we are accountable for our actions.

And that is as they say, all I have to say about that. :)

ETA: this was NOT in reply to the post above. *hugs nerdsRus* :)

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. :)

I certainly don't think anyone should be self-defined or socially defined by their hormones, but they sure are a factor for some. There are women who do get through all the stages of menopause pretty smoothly, and lots who do not. I'm not done yet, but I'm finally through the worst of it, and there were times when I could basically feel that my brain was awash in a chemical/hormone bath. Times when I didn't know myself at all, really quite rough.

But I asked for lots of advice from friends (since the only other alternative was to hang myself) and started a heavy course of natural stuff like evening primrose, etc., which I'm still on. These helped straighten me out and helped me get some control over what was going on in my body. I mean, for awhile I WAS all the stupid mood jokes - they're crummy jokes, but there was truth in them in my case, definitely. It was awful, I was awful.

Not everyone gets smacked down by their hormones, but it does happen, and it can make a person genuinely nuts. Crucial to recognize it, take action, seek help, advice, compare notes with those who have been through it, whether it's post-partum or menopause.

I'm 1000% better than I was, and I'm real me again, but I won't be sorry when I'm finally done with the whole enchilada. Blah. It's been exhausting. You just can't let it win, if you want a life.Awww...I am glad you found things that help and *raises a glass* here's to it coming to an end quickly. Don't EVER let anyone make you the brunt of their jokes and remember their insensitivity says volumes about them and nothing about you. ;)

nerds
11-28-2007, 07:27 PM
Shhhh. You guys do know that PMS and menopausal trials have been successfully used as bolsters to temporary insanity pleas in murder cases, right?

Don't screw this up for me, ladies.


LOL, but that makes me think of the old days when the mentally ill (and some not) were routinely institutionalized in the big asylums. It was a common practice to park menopausal women in these places, sometimes due to their behaviors, but sometimes just to get them out of the way. Hubby would have some sweet young thing waiting in the wings and he could legally put wifey away based on her menopausal symptoms. They could be divorced based on it, and the wife would end up with nothing and abandoned to the institution she was in. Yikes.

NeuroFizz
11-28-2007, 07:28 PM
Again, I have been told (and I've noticed) that the big stuff doesn't change--the behavior is does not go from "good" to "bad." But there is an edge on things that can change the person's normal reactions to things, which makes that person seem like a different person to a close observer. And Sharon has a good point. Every female is an individual so the behavior from the normal cyclic hormone changes, and in particular from the hormonal changes when that cycle shuts down, will be expressed differently in each woman. Some will feel or express no change whatsoever. Others will show significant behavioral changes. As a part humorous and part serious sidebar, I do remember a court case a few decades ago where a woman murdered her husband, and the defense lawyer proposed PMS as a form of temporary insanity. As I recall, it didn't work, though. Probably too many men on the jury (joke-I don't use smilies).

dolores haze
11-28-2007, 07:35 PM
LOL, but that makes me think of the old days when the mentally ill (and some not) were routinely institutionalized in the big asylums. It was a common practice to park menopausal women in these places, sometimes due to their behaviors, but sometimes just to get them out of the way. Hubby would have some sweet young thing waiting in the wings and he could legally put wifey away based on her menopausal symptoms. They could be divorced based on it, and the wife would end up with nothing and abandoned to the institution she was in. Yikes.


Also, it is still not uncommon for young women with intellectual challenges to be moved out of the family home into residential placement when they hit puberty, based on their behavior becoming unmanageable. Institutionalization in big asylums is, thankfully, rare these days, though it hasn't always been the case.

aruna
11-28-2007, 09:11 PM
For me, it's all a question of self-knowledge/self-awareness, self observation and direction of mind. I believe in mind over matter; The fact, for instance, that placebos really work show just how far conviction can carry a human.
I personally have honestly never had PMS. Not ever; I had never even heard of it before I came to Europe! So in my case it;s not just a question of fighting it; it never happened.

NeuroFizz
11-28-2007, 09:29 PM
For me, it's all a question of self-knowledge/self-awareness, self observation and direction of mind. I believe in mind over matter; The fact, for instance, that placebos really work show just how far conviction can carry a human.
I personally have honestly never had PMS. Not ever; I had never even heard of it before I came to Europe! So in my case it;s not just a question of fighting it; it never happened.
Do you know how many doctors have been skewered for saying, "PMS is all in your head" to a woman? There is a solid physiological basis for the behavioral changes, Sharon, and just because you are someone who has never experienced it doesn't mean those who do will be "cured" by self-awareness and education (it will certainly help, though). The placebo effect is very limited, and cited way too often in terms of how many times it has actually been shown to be real in a physiological sense. Your experience represents one data point in a huge population sample. It is extremely interesting as an isolated case, but to draw a conclusion like you are doing here is a bit much. PMS is very real, with a real physiological basis for many women.

aruna
11-28-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm not saying it;s not real I never said that... I do believe, however, that if a giirl is taught from a young age how to handle these hormonal changes the effects wil be milder.
I know that the sample is small. But I am certainly not the only one; and the fact that the experience has been made by women shows that it CAN be done.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 09:41 PM
I haven't gotten the impression that she's saying there is no such thing as PMS. What I do see aruna encouraging is learning different tools that might help these things.

nerds
11-28-2007, 09:47 PM
I believe in the powers of mind over matter as well, but my own experience with menopause, during which I have indeed used it as one tool from the box to help deal with the worst years, was far too overwhelming for that to be the only tool I needed.

I understand aruna's point, but it's just not that simple for some women. Some menopausal experiences are almost catastrophic in their intensity. It's up to us who get hit with that (and yes, not everyone does) to recognize it and get the help that works best for them.

When your brain is floating in chem/hormone crap, the mind don't matter anymore, and it is bad news. I'm very glad for ANY woman who doesn't ever go through it, but as dolores pointed out, it's imperative for women to be as self-aware as possible, and address any troubles should they come along.

NeuroFizz
11-28-2007, 09:56 PM
I haven't gotten the impression that she's saying there is no such thing as PMS. What I do see aruna encouraging is learning different tools that might help these things.
And, I'm in full agreement (and said such). Actually, Sharon has been very careful to say the equivalent of "in my experience..." in all of her observations (kudos there). However, when the placebo thing was brought up, that bent it all in a direction I couldn't support. Just as there is no magic pill for this, there also is no magical mind state that will work for every individual, even if the individuals in question are very in-tune with their bodies and do all the right things for aiming for that mind-tone. That's my point.

Cassiopeia
11-28-2007, 10:06 PM
I believe in the powers of mind over matter as well, but my own experience with menopause, during which I have indeed used it as one tool from the box to help deal with the worst years, was far too overwhelming for that to be the only tool I needed.

I understand aruna's point, but it's just not that simple for some women. Some menopausal experiences are almost catastrophic in their intensity. It's up to us who get hit with that (and yes, not everyone does) to recognize it and get the help that works best for them.

When your brain is floating in chem/hormone crap, the mind don't matter anymore, and it is bad news. I'm very glad for ANY woman who doesn't ever go through it, but as dolores pointed out, it's imperative for women to be as self-aware as possible, and address any troubles should they come along.So are there viable helps out there? I think you mentioned evening primrose. I have wondered about the hormone replacement therapies and if they are helpful and then there are those who talk about the wonders of soy and such things as well.

nerds
11-28-2007, 10:30 PM
So are there viable helps out there? I think you mentioned evening primrose. I have wondered about the hormone replacement therapies and if they are helpful and then there are those who talk about the wonders of soy and such things as well.


This thread is an outstanding conversation, seriously. I hope it'll be of help to some.

Well, the hormone-replacement, it's a good idea to research that thoroughly, and if possible, to talk with older friends who have tried it. It's too big a subject to get into here, but a thorough google and talks with friends and medical-types is a good idea, imo. I made a personal choice not to go that route, but I think/hope what this thread is showing is that this is a highly individual experience and so are any methods of dealing with it.

aruna's not wrong in her mind-over-matter thoughts, it does make a difference, and can carry some women through on its own. Just not all women.

When I saw that I was in for a very bad menopausal run - again, this is crucial, to SEE it for what it is - I sought the advice of many older friends who had been through it. So many of them recommended the course of natural supplements that I wanted to try that first. Top of the list was evening primrose, Vitamin E, flaxseed oil gelcaps, and black cohosh.

Here again, the wonders of google, if you use keywords like menopause herbal natural remedy, or any combination of, you can find a wealth of information. These mercifully worked and do work for me, plus lots of hard exercise, in my case bike-riding outdoors, not on a stationary, but that works just as well.

I mean, some women have a genuinely terrible time, and forewarned is forearmed. God, by age 46 I started having periods where I went through three sets of clothes in a day and couldn't go out of the house for three days straight. No mind over matter was going to triumph over that. This was not my body, not my mind, I never had any troubles before, ever.

I will say one thing for my nightmarish experience - my mother was a hellishly, uh, crazy person. I look back now, and I do see that menopause played a part, no question. She went through it at a time when no one even mentioned the word, let alone helped women with it. I never got even minutely close to her behavior, but I live in an open time when there are threads like these, help to be had, and other women to talk it over with openly. There was no evening primrose for my mother. I wish there had been, and I've been able to arrive at a forgiveness for her behaviors which I probably would not have done without having been through the thing myself.

paprikapink
11-28-2007, 10:44 PM
Wow, great discussion.

Nerds, I'd be interested to know how long you've been going through this. Or anyone -- is it years? months? I'm 48 and have recently gone from feeling smug, "No, I'm not in menopause yet" to feeling impatient to get this monthly business over with! But for all I know, I could be in it, just still having periods, right?

I'm with Perks and Dolores who have found that acknowledging to themselves that the budding rage they feel could be hormonally inspired helps them to nip it in said bud. It's gotten trickier for me because although some parts of my monthly cycle are still ticking along clockworks-style, other aspects are hopping about -- now I'm hypersensitive after instead of before....

And as for my own experience with postpartum depression, man, that sucked. I insisted I didn't have that. I wasn't sad -- that's what I thought "depression" meant. I thought life was still good, it just seemed like such a shame that my dear children had to have such a worthless shit as me for a mother. It didn't dawn on me till I was nearly incapacitated that my feelings of worthlessness, which I considered to be my intellectually formed, fact-based opinion of myself, could actually be a hormonally induced symptom, easily treatable.

aruna
11-28-2007, 11:07 PM
And, I'm in full agreement (and said such). Actually, Sharon has been very careful to say the equivalent of "in my experience..." in all of her observations (kudos there). However, when the placebo thing was brought up, that bent it all in a direction I couldn't support. Just as there is no magic pill for this, there also is no magical mind state that will work for every individual, even if the individuals in question are very in-tune with their bodies and do all the right things for aiming for that mind-tone. That's my point.
Yes, I shouldn't have mentioned placebos... in fact, I agree that too often placebos are cited, as in the case recently with some study that seemd to prove that acupuncture doesn't work because needles placed in random points work the same as in real acupuncture points. As my son is going to be an acupuncturist I obviously couldn't agree with that!

It may just be that I'm very lucky and naturally balanced... but I have also worked very hard on myself and have come a long way since feeling so insecure and worthless as a timid little 19 year old I would sleep with almost anytning on two legs and drugged/drank myself into a stupor on a regular basis. I think there is a vast amount of human potential in all of us, but some of us have to dig deeper to find it. I had to dig VERY deep.

nerds
11-28-2007, 11:43 PM
Wow, great discussion.

Nerds, I'd be interested to know how long you've been going through this. Or anyone -- is it years? months? I'm 48 and have recently gone from feeling smug, "No, I'm not in menopause yet" to feeling impatient to get this monthly business over with! But for all I know, I could be in it, just still having periods, right?


I want to use great care in my reply, because there's a fairly wide range in experience, as this thread shows!

I tend to read as much as I can and talk to real people as much as possible when these sorts of questions come up. You might well be one of those who segues smoothly through, but of course I can't know that. Of my friends who followed the pattern you are in, they had smooth sailing, and things just sort of gradually, gracefully wound themselves down over time.

My own experience went like this:
no problems ever, not one hormonal blip through periods, pregnancy, post-pregnancy, not one damn thing. Sailed right through it all. When I was about 38-39, I had a monster hotflash in the grocery store. BAM. I thought maybe it was a panic attack, which I've never had. But it felt similar, and I nearly fainted in the checkout line. I didn't recognize it as a hotflash at the time. Then age 39-43 I had nightsweats beyond belief, I'd wake up in disgusting condition and throwing linens in the washing machine and showering at 2 in the morning. The daytime hotflashes didn't come often, but by then of course I knew what was going on. The natural supplements kicked both the flashes and sweats straight to the curb where they belong.

Somewhere around age 40 the urge to take up a meat cleaver for no good reason started showing up. I'd been looking forward to my forties, supposedly a wondrous time, but mine got pretty wrecked. I also began perceiving colors incorrectly and misreading some words during the week before my period. When I say that I could feel the chem wash my brain was in, I really mean that. It was a physical awareness. Said brain would have been more useful pickled in a jar. My mind was being seriously tampered with, and it was frightening.

Mid-forties, the nightmare periods started up, yet there was nothing actually wrong with me. Other than menopause.

All the stuff I'm doing has dealt beautifully with it all. Hard exercise helps me enormously. Age-wise, I'm a tad ahead of the usual timeline, but not by too much. I'm fifty now, I haven't killed anyone, and I'm not in prison. I guess I've got 4-5 years of it left but the worst is behind me now.

But that's only my own experience. Lots of women get through okay, but if you find yourself suddenly wanting to take a baseball bat and kill the world now and then, just realize what it is, and find whatever methods will keep you out of the pokey.

:D

SpookyWriter
11-29-2007, 12:23 AM
I just keep lots of afghans...Are you allowed to keep lost afghans? I thought we had immigration rules.

Carole
11-29-2007, 12:34 AM
I'm not there yet either, but I'm noticing weirdness as I get older. I do react to things differently than I used to. I think it's due in part to the fact that Mr. Vagabond spent so many years teaching me that I'm allowed to have a bad day and I'm allowed to complain. After years of being taught otherwise by the ex, it was actually a hard lesson to learn. Of course now he probably wishes he'd left things as they were!!!

Melisande
11-29-2007, 01:38 AM
I mean come on, let's face it. How would the guys feel if we turned to them every time they got cranky and said, "ain't gettin any are ya?"?

However tempting that might be...*giggle* I think it's a put down.

Said that to my boss where I worked in the seventies. He was not amused, and fired me on the spot!

Melisande
11-29-2007, 01:45 AM
This thread is an outstanding conversation, seriously. I hope it'll be of help to some.

Well, the hormone-replacement, it's a good idea to research that thoroughly, and if possible, to talk with older friends who have tried it. It's too big a subject to get into here, but a thorough google and talks with friends and medical-types is a good idea, imo. I made a personal choice not to go that route, but I think/hope what this thread is showing is that this is a highly individual experience and so are any methods of dealing with it.




I read somewhere that some of the estrogens out there are actually made from pregnant horses urine; http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-esnatri.htm

In order to make this drug horses are forced to spend entire lives in agony; http://www.equineadvocates.com/premarin2.html PLEASE READ

It is a sad thing that animals have to suffer, when there are in fact a lot of other products out there!

Cassiopeia
11-29-2007, 01:49 AM
I read somewhere that some of the estrogens out there are actually made from pregnant horses urine; http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-esnatri.htm

In order to make this drug horses are forced to spend entire lives in agony; http://www.equineadvocates.com/premarin2.html

It is a sad thing that animals have to suffer, when there are in fact a lot of other products out there!Yep that is true. Not all of them but yes some of them are.

Perks
11-29-2007, 01:51 AM
I've started taking evening primrose oil (it's also great for dry eye syndrome) and vitex (chaste tree). I recently added wild yam extract because all of these are supposed to help even those things out.

I've felt PMS escalating subtly over the last couple of years, so I thought I'd see if these helped.

I haven't killed anyone so far. And my five year old hasn't run away from home yet.

Woo hoo! The fountain of youth, baby.

Melisande
11-29-2007, 01:53 AM
I went through menopause early. I was lucky, didn't feel much of it, and sailed through without any trouble. My mother was not that lucky, though. She suffered hot flashes from hell, and it was very embarrassing to her as she worked with costumers. When she blushed she was afraid they'd consider her a liar. She was given estrogen and gained over 50 lbs in a year. That's a lot for a woman of 5,1. She's never managed to loose that weight again.
However, she was lucky enough never to suffer from mood-changes and anger. To this day she says that she would have preferred that, rather than the hot flashes, the perspiration and the rest.

I believe that menopause is as indiviually experienced as there are women on this planet.

rhymegirl
11-29-2007, 02:45 AM
Are you experiencing hot flashes?

Yes.

paprikapink
11-29-2007, 03:00 AM
I want to use great care in my reply, because there's a fairly wide range in experience, as this thread shows!
<snip>
But that's only my own experience. Lots of women get through okay, but if you find yourself suddenly wanting to take a baseball bat and kill the world now and then, just realize what it is, and find whatever methods will keep you out of the pokey.

:D

Thanks for sharing your story. I think it helps us all to have real-life examples of how broad the spectrum of experience can be.

truelyana
11-29-2007, 04:04 AM
I must confess though, it's very hard not to tell some people to just snap out of it after years of seeing them do nothing to help themselves. I understand real problems and then there's my mother (yes it's a-I hate my mother moment) who will use every excuse in the book for her bad behaviour. Menopause was just another one. Had her moods and actions completely changed during menopause I would have believed it hormonal.

She's just mean. ;)

It's the same with my mother. Maria has always used her behaviour to win over anything. In other words, she is playing mind games and she knows it and she has used her menoupase as a reason to go hand in hand with taking advantage of situations. I know she's not really happy where she is at the moment, and she is not willing to change it. I have offered her solutions with many things in life, but she thinks she can't do anything and is day by day sinking herself more and more into the ground. That is one of the struggles she goes through everyday, and she uses her emotions to manipulate others in the process. I know, because I've experienced this nearly all my life.

I understand how she is, beyond her occasional mood swings and emotional rollercoasters, and allow her to be. Her habits turn conversations into loud arguments on her part, and I have always responded to her as she has always got the wrong end of the stick on many things. I found that to be quite problematic and draining at times, but for the most part just let her be. My dad has also had he's fair share of the stick. I do love her to bits, and know what it's like to prevent yourself from telling someone to just snap out of it after many years. At the end of the day, I've done my bit many times to help. The realisation of it all, is that it is really up to her now. It's her life, and her habits and she is the only one who can decide to snap out of it.

People, don't you just love them. :LilLove:

Cassiopeia
11-29-2007, 04:14 AM
Well, like I told Perks in a PM...my mother told me she wishes I had cancer and not her. so no, actually, I learned not to love her. :(

truelyana
11-29-2007, 04:20 AM
Well, like I told Perks in a PM...my mother told me she wishes I had cancer and not her. so no, actually, I learned not to love her. :(

My mum also wishes alot of negative things upon me and doesn't appreciate or know who I am, but I just realise that is how she is, no matter how horrid she is to me.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-29-2007, 05:07 AM
Are you allowed to keep lost afghans? I thought we had immigration rules.

Actually, I adopted all of them, so they're US citizens now.

Seriously, however - back on the menopause subject - I went the hormone therapy route. Even stuck with them for over two years after the studies branded them dangerous, and I was on them for about ten years. For me, they were the wonder drug of the century. Ol' Boy said he'd rob banks to get enough money to pay for them. They completely eradicated the 'urge to kill' that came upon me monthly (something my ex-boss should have thanked the gods for since he was usually the target of my wrath). They toned down the hot flashes considerably - to the point where I wouldn't drown in a sea of sweat. I would turn a lovely shade of hot pink and keep the A/C set on 60 - everything was hunky-dorey.

Finally, I just got tired of the ongoing periods - and when my sis was diagnosed with estrogen-fed breast cancer, that did it for me (even though she never took a hormone in her life!) That's the part (the ongoing periods) they didn't warn me about. They said they'd be 'lighter' and 'eventually' they'd go away, but they didn't. I went off hormones about a year ago and I'm just now beginning to miss a period occasionally. Heaven! The hot flashes/night sweats have not returned, either.

For me, the hormone therapy was a god send. Ol' Boy certainly appreciates my living better through chemistry - but neither of us was happy about the way the horses are treated to get those chemicals.

Now, the sister's menopause: that's a whole 'nother story. She was the shrieking harridan from hell. Ol' Brother-in-Law suffered the agonies of the damned. He and I plotted to slip hormones to her secretly... but it's good we didn't. If she'd been taking hormones, she'd be dead.

It really isn't a 'one size fits all' situation. Most important is that there IS alternative therapy these days and herbals really DO work for some folks. And, of course, you're not alone... whether you're the menopausal woman or the man who loves her. :)

paprikapink
11-29-2007, 08:03 AM
OFG, I think your case and your sister's illustrates that it's not all nature or nurture (assuming you were brought up similarly)...we're all individuals.

Has anyone here experienced what I've heard called "post-menopausal vigor"? And if so, what the hell is it?

aruna
11-29-2007, 04:49 PM
awww...aruna *hugs for you both* That's got to be such a challenge for you both.

That's not even the worst of it. *sigh*


And, I'm in full agreement (and said such). Actually, Sharon has been very careful to say the equivalent of "in my experience..." in all of her observations (kudos there). .

I'm sorry if I ever gave the impression that my experience ought to be universal, or that that of other (most) women was in any way self-induced. Not at all... I think it is al as real as can be. I just believe in the almost unlimited potential of the human spirit to rise above difficulties, and that challenges are part of life.
Perhaps that's why I am at the moment facing almost more than I can bear.

Tell you about it sometime.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-29-2007, 04:50 PM
OFG, I think your case and your sister's illustrates that it's not all nature or nurture (assuming you were brought up similarly)...we're all individuals.

Exactly. I used to be a big believer in the 'nurture' part of that theory, 'til I married one of an identical twin set. Talk about 'night' and 'day'. Nurture definitely plays a part, but nature's got the upper hand.


Has anyone here experienced what I've heard called "post-menopausal vigor"? And if so, what the hell is it?

Me! Me! I have! It's like getting your second wind. After years of dragging myself around, I've suddenly returned to a new, better me. I think I'm about to wear Ol' Boy out... :e2brows:... but he ain't complainin'!

rhymegirl
11-29-2007, 05:18 PM
I keep waking up at 2:30 in the morning, all sweaty, and I can't go back to sleep.

Sigh.

nerds
11-29-2007, 05:52 PM
Me! Me! I have! It's like getting your second wind. After years of dragging myself around, I've suddenly returned to a new, better me. I think I'm about to wear Ol' Boy out... :e2brows:... but he ain't complainin'!


omg OFG. (I've always wanted to say that :D .) I can't wait for that. Cannot wait. Something to look forward to after years of crapola. Yippeeee!

Perks
11-29-2007, 06:15 PM
Has anyone here experienced what I've heard called "post-menopausal vigor"? And if so, what the hell is it?Oh! I want that! I guess I'll have to pay my dues first. But, yay! I'd never heard of that before.

You know who I want to be? Helen Mirren. I bet she's all about 'post-menopausal vigor'.

aruna
11-29-2007, 06:19 PM
Take it form me: Postmenopause is absolutely the very best time of life! Bar none.

If you gals are talking about sex when you say vigour, then no, in my case the very opposite,

But just increased life, increased joy, increased strength. It's all about that. A totally new dimension
new dimension, a new me. I would hate to be 20 again.

Perks
11-29-2007, 06:20 PM
I just meant vigor as vigor. And yeah, I wouldn't be twenty again.

Cassiopeia
11-30-2007, 05:04 AM
You couldn't pay me to be 20 again. In my 40's HELL yeah...but nothing could get me to go through my 20's again. :)

nerds
11-30-2007, 05:39 AM
My twenties were actually a wonderful decade for me. Aside from ages 1-10, it was the best, so far, in many ways. A happy time. But I don't yearn to go back to that age.

My forties were packed with the early menopause from hell, divorce, moves, definitely my worst decade by a good long shot. Looking forward to new decades, new me, new stuff.

:)

Chumplet
11-30-2007, 06:22 AM
I went back on the pill for a spell to avert heavy, painful, erratic periods and the frequent hot flash and night sweats. It was great for a while, but doc says enough is enough, let nature take its course. So this month is my last month on the pill. Back to the night sweats, I guess.

Regarding mood swings -- it's my thought that we hold back from our rage so much that when the hormones spike, we just can't hold it in anymore and that's why we finally snap at all the stupidity around us.

paprikapink
11-30-2007, 08:02 AM
That's what I think too, Chumplet! Or even just that we hold back on our annoyance so much that it becomes rage when our bodies are too busy in "discharge mode" to store that extra emotional garbage.

Once, when I was a child (in Berkeley, CA in the 60s) I saw graffiti that said "War is menstrual envy." I've never forgotten that assertion. It's frivolous, but somehow I can't entirely dismiss it either.

aruna
11-30-2007, 11:05 AM
The thing is, so many of my role models all through life have been old or older women. The very most influenctial person in my life, the one person who turned my life right around and setme off on a completely different tragectory, was an INdian woman I knew back then, a woman in her late 80's who died about 20 yers ago. I can't rememberher without tears coming to my eyes.

Then there is Trudel, a very close friend I met in India inmy 20's. She'll be 99 this year,and stiull going strong as ever, ANutterly amazing woman. I remember her 80'th biurthday party; she has literally hudnreds of friends of al ages, and they all used to run to hert house inthe French mountains whenever they could for a weeend or a week of peace and healing and just returning to nature. Her life revolved around her garden and stil does. When I went to see her last
year she was living alone in this same house--no neihbours anywhere. She looed after herself, doing all the cooking and poersonal care herself. She walks without help and washes and dresses herself, does averythigalone, AND still does hergardening. She is there all winter as well. The only thing she doesn't do is cleaning and shopping.

ANd then there is my own mother, who is now also pushing 90 and is as active and engaged in all her projects as ever before. She aims to retire when she is 90. She to lives al by herself and just keeps going.

I see old age as a wonderful time of completion and fullness. Because those are the examples I see.

aruna
11-30-2007, 11:06 AM
I
Regarding mood swings -- it's my thought that we hold back from our rage so much that when the hormones spike, we just can't hold it in anymore and that's why we finally snap at all the stupidity around us.

Maybe. But there are other alternatives to holding in rage or letting it out.. why not dissolve it? That was always my own practice.

Cassiopeia
11-30-2007, 12:54 PM
I don't want to sound like junior therapist here but I will say this much, when I learned to look at the cause of my anger I usually found another emotion. Once I resolved that anger, stopped ruling my day.

I am very grateful to the person who taught me that. Carolyn Myss in her book/audio cd's on Energy Anatomy.

aruna
11-30-2007, 01:47 PM
I don't want to sound like junior therapist here but I will say this much, when I learned to look at the cause of my anger I usually found another emotion. Once I resolved that anger stopped ruling my day.



We're on the same page, Cass! I would never connect what I have learned with junk therapy. Lond ago, I was lucky enough to meet one or two very amazing people who helped me take a hard long look at myself and free myself from knee-jerk reactions. It changed my life around.

rhymegirl
11-30-2007, 04:00 PM
I've started taking evening primrose oil

This is the name of the stuff a nurse/counselor told me about yesterday. She said she's been taking these tablets for a while and they definitely help with mood swings. I'm gonna have to give them a try.

truelyana
11-30-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't want to sound like junior therapist here but I will say this much, when I learned to look at the cause of my anger I usually found another emotion. Once I resolved that anger, stopped ruling my day.

I am very grateful to the person who taught me that. Carolyn Myss in her book/audio cd's on Energy Anatomy.

That's the only way you can ever resolve the way things work, by exploring yourself. It helps that you are open to suggestions along the way.

paprikapink
11-30-2007, 11:54 PM
I'm having a funny inner dialog.

I want to offer an alternative perspective to aruna and cass's perceptions, but I fear I'd be putting them on the defensive unless I worded it just right, and then they'd be mad at me and think I didn't love them anymore, and then I'd feel bad, and try to clarify my point, and that'd make things worse, and they'd really feel miffed and, ultimately, I'd get banned --

or the vision forks here and has an alternative ending where cass and aruna are so beyond that kind of trivia, it'd be a non-issue and we all live happily every after --

or, wait, another tine on the fork, maybe nerds and perks will chime in and we'd all mud-wrestle...yadda yadda yadda....

This must be my insecure time of the month. :)

nerds
11-30-2007, 11:59 PM
I'm having a funny inner dialog.

I want to offer an alternative perspective to aruna and cass's perceptions, but I fear I'd be putting them on the defensive unless I worded it just right, and then they'd be mad at me and think I didn't love them anymore, and then I'd feel bad, and try to clarify my point, and that'd make things worse, and they'd really feel miffed and, ultimately, I'd get banned --

or the vision forks here and has an alternative ending where cass and aruna are so beyond that kind of trivia, it'd be a non-issue and we all live happily every after --

or, wait, another tine on the fork, maybe nerds and perks will chime in and we'd all mud-wrestle...yadda yadda yadda....

This must be my insecure time of the month. :)


:ROFL: :roll: :ROFL: :roll: :ROFL:

Cassiopeia
12-01-2007, 02:06 AM
wow...um....*slides you a cup of tea* I'm sorry you're ..um...struggling. ;)
I'm having a funny inner dialog.

I want to offer an alternative perspective to aruna and cass's perceptions, but I fear I'd be putting them on the defensive unless I worded it just right, and then they'd be mad at me and think I didn't love them anymore, and then I'd feel bad, and try to clarify my point, and that'd make things worse, and they'd really feel miffed and, ultimately, I'd get banned --

or the vision forks here and has an alternative ending where cass and aruna are so beyond that kind of trivia, it'd be a non-issue and we all live happily every after --

or, wait, another tine on the fork, maybe nerds and perks will chime in and we'd all mud-wrestle...yadda yadda yadda....

This must be my insecure time of the month. :)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-01-2007, 02:17 AM
LOL! Well, ladies, I confess... I explored myself and still wanted to kill someone. It wasn't about anger for me - but the exploration and the willingness to acknowledge that those tiny little chemicals were stronger than I was (though not smarter) gave me the wherewithal to recognize the mood swings for what they were and refuse to let them make me make Ol' Boy miserable.

I cannot say the same for some of the fools around me, however. I would give fair warning when the time was upon me, but if they refused to heed it...:Shrug:

Maybe it's a combination. The hormones are real - how we react to them can be controlled... but only if 1. you want to control them and 2. you're willing to do so.

As always with matters of the physical and the psychological: YMMV.

eldragon
12-01-2007, 02:18 AM
Ooh, at 44, I am so ready for this menopause to get over with. Right now I'm in the peri-menopausal stage, and the word of the day is "drip."


I never had any problems with my cycle. Few cramps, a couple of days at the most.

But now? I have a period every two weeks and the cramps are bad, the bleeding is God awful.

So Chumplet, I feel your pain.

My OB/GYN also prescribed birth control pills. The safest way is to take the lowest dose for the least amount of time, to relieve the symptoms a bit.

I have been holding onto the first monthly packet for over two months, because I know they will make me sick.

So I am very ready for the end of the monthly cycle.

Cassiopeia
12-01-2007, 02:18 AM
what does YMMV mean?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-01-2007, 02:23 AM
Your mileage may vary. ;)

aruna
12-01-2007, 11:42 AM
I'm having a funny inner dialog.

I want to offer an alternative perspective to aruna and cass's perceptions, but I fear I'd be putting them on the defensive unless I worded it just right, and then they'd be mad at me and think I didn't love them anymore, and then I'd feel bad, and try to clarify my point, and that'd make things worse, and they'd really feel miffed and, ultimately, I'd get banned --



This must be my insecure time of the month. :)

I'll always love you, Paprika, never fear!! :tongue

Maybe, though, I should clarify.

For me, "to explore" or "to know myself" is not somehow to wander around the avenues of my personality, navel-gazing and bemused by all the wondrous things about myself I find in there. That sounds horribly new-agey and touchy-feely, both concepts I deplore.

What I really mean is that, after floundering around for most of my youth and being totally at the mercy of my moods, insecurities, and utter sense of inferiority, I was forced to work on myself and find some way to deal with my total hopelessness.
At some point I began to grow roots, so to speak, inner roots. Once I got the knack of that everything changed.

I prefer to describe myself now as a tree, a tree which is steadily growing, and the older I get, the stronger so that I am no more swept away by moods or bent by trials. Now, I actually welcome trials as they make me stronger.

The present trial I am in is the hardest ever.
My husband not only suffers from depression, he has also regressed to the state of a child, almost totally dependent on me. He used to be a funny, sharp, intelligent man who took care of all out finances. Now, he can't figure anything out. It is impossible to converse with him, as most of what he says makes no sense. Conversations go around in circles as he does not understand the simplest things (such as: "take one pill at 12 and another at 4." He will ask for those instructions to be repeated and finally forget it altogether and do something completely different). I have had to take over all the paperwork, a job I absolutely hate and am no good at.

He does not read or do anything but wants to be entertained by me; he resents my leaving the house. He forgets to take his meds if I am not there. It's like having a baby again, except not one that gives you joy and you watch growing and thriving, but one twice your size and weight who complains about everything (yesterday he complained that the (cotton) sheets are too smooth, he cannot sleep!) and needs constant attention. He is like an old senile parent rather than a husband, and that is tough.

At the same time our finances are in a a dire state as he had to retire and we have two mortgages, plus he has to give a huge chunk of pension to his ex-wife, we are up to our ears in debt so I am working two days a week in England. ANd to augment that, I have taken on a series of lectures/presentations in Germany which meant flying back there every weekend since September. I could not have done that at all if not for my kids, who looked after my husband when I was away--he didn't like my leaving, but he had to take it. Now those lectures are over, thank goodness, but it was tough. I just had my first weekend at home with the family.

On top of that, I started a novel on my birthday mid-september, and today I topped 53000 words!

I could never have done this if I was susceptible to moods. The only way to take on these challenges was to stay absolutely firm and rooted in myself, in a part of me that is BEYOND moods and emotional upheavals and the need to do want I want for a change. It is an art I have cultivated over the last 30 years so I KNOW it is there and I can draw from it at all times. SO I do not complain or see my present difficulties as destroying my life; it is simply the reality of my circumstances that I have accepted 100%. The word trials is very apt. A trial is what makes you strong.

And doing so I have discovered aspects of myself I never knew I had, and am making new discoveries and discovering new strengths all the time. I used to have a phobia of public speaking, for instance, now I am speaking with great ease to crowds of 100 and more and my audiences are so enthusiastic that the invitations for even more talks are just pouring in and I have to turn them down!

I always believed that the hardest times in life are the best for personal growth, and that is definitely what is happening now. I would not change a thing. Except, of course, I do wish my husband would get better, but that is not only unlikely, it won't happen. And that is heartbreaking. But what can I do, but keep going and make the best of it? But in order to do that I have to know myself, and build on my strengths. Moods are just not a part of it.

Cassiopeia
12-01-2007, 01:56 PM
I also want to say that my posts are in NO way meant to say that everyone can do this naturally or to snap out of it.

In my life due to medical issues and allergies I can not use most medications. I have had to learn how to deal with pain and hormones on my own. I can't even take birth control pills I have such adverse reactions to them.

So for me when I say I have had to really get to the bottom of my emotions to cope with the hormonal complications it's because I have NO choice. It has in no way been easy and I would have loved to have had medications take the burden off my shoulders. Again, that isn't something I have been able to do because of these complications.

I wear a medical alert bracelet that reads like a pharmaceutical journal. Okay I exaggerate but not by much. I just don't want anyone thinking I disapprove of people using modern medicine to help them get through the day.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-01-2007, 04:53 PM
Back in my 30s, I lost my father... my second-best friend after Ol' Boy. He was the solid foundation of an unhappy childhood and made my life bearable during the 'teen year relationship with my mother. For two years before his death, he suffered small strokes that nibbled away at his memory and left him in an unstable version of the here-and-now. In his more lucid moments, he asked one thing of me - the youngest of five, by the way - he asked that I 'take care of things' when he was gone. I promised I would, even though three of the five of us were men in their 40s and 50s.

After his death, I kept that promise... but I resented that I was the chosen one (though I didn't know it at the time). I crammed my real feelings and emotions down waaaaaay deep so that I could function with all the stuff that had to be handled: from the funeral arrangements to mother's welfare after. I only allowed myself to cry very brieftly - there was simply too much to do, too much to handle... just too much.

Man, was I proud of myself! Strong, self-sufficient, responsible, dealing with a difficult (to say the least!) person in my mother... what a good job I was doing for my daddy!

'Til the bottom fell out a year later and I had the Emperor of all Panic Attacks. Couldn't breathe. Couldn't stop crying. I learned in a very real way that I couldn't fool Mother Nature and my body could only stand so much 'control'.

No, we don't have to let emotions rule us all the time, but it's important to know they're there for a reason: coping mechanism, pressure valve, whatever... And trying to ignore/control/refuse to vent them took me right to the edge of a place of which I didn't like the look and feel. A good cry, vigorous exercise of the lungs directed at an appropriate (inanimate) object, chopping wood - IOW, redirection of the natural chemical processes within us - coupled with better living through chemistry (which I refused 'cause I was ignorant) if you can benefit from it - are a good thing... whether it's menopausal or otherwise.

nerds
12-01-2007, 06:07 PM
Reading all these experiences and challenges, wow. If we knew, as little girls, what lay ahead, heh. Maybe we'd just opt not to grow up, lol.

I'm intrigued by what I interpret as aruna's ability to successfully focus in order to get through things. That's the word I keep thinking of. And then right next to that is OFG's account of what focus ended up doing to her.

I suppose there's the kind of focus where you're doing it without shutting off feelings, which I think is what aruna's able to do, and then the kind where while you're doing all that focusing and staying strong/competent, chunks of yourself are falling away because other things are being shut off or shut out. Like OFG, I fell to pieces for a time after years of coping/doing/keeping on; I paid a pretty heavy toll there for awhile, but I learned so much from it. (Very glad my brain is back in place. What's left of it.)

Well. I think we can say from this thread that we're all made of pretty strong stuff, and that's a cool thing. Life can certainly be a gigantic pain in the ass.

:e2grouphu

Chumplet
12-01-2007, 06:58 PM
Geez, Aruna... with all that happening in your life, I sure hope nothing cracks. I hope you're accepting as much help as possible.

My hubby suffers from depression and anxiety, too. It took the form of extreme jealousy, and I was the one who had to keep a calm front when all that anger was brewing around me. Even as a child, I lived in a family where tempers were short and I found myself standing between people with a striped shirt and a whistle.

Now, I simply let go when the hormones get to me. Of course I give fair warning to my husband and two teenagers: "Mom's PMSing, so you'd better clean that cat box right now before I start yelling."

They hop to it.

Chumplet
12-01-2007, 07:00 PM
OFG, the valve theory rings true. We're taught to be little model citizens all our lives while the people around us treat us like crap. Sometimes a dish has to get broken. Better than someone's head.

aruna
12-01-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm intrigued by what I interpret as aruna's ability to successfully focus in order to get through things. That's the word I keep thinking of. And then right next to that is OFG's account of what focus ended up doing to her.

I suppose there's the kind of focus where you're doing it without shutting off feelings, which I think is what aruna's able to do, and then the kind where while you're doing all that focusing and staying strong/competent, chunks of yourself are falling away because other things are being shut off or shut out.
:e2grouphu

Well... I left out one major detail, and that is: essential to everything I've said is my practice of meditation, which I've developed over the last 30 years. That way, I never fall under the illusion that "I" am strong. What is strong is something in me that is beyond me and which I can access at will whenever I remember to do so... a constant battery, if you like, with which I can recharge daily. It is not me, my personality; it is a tangible source of life and energy. I do not try to be in control; rather, I try to give all that pressure, all those problems into that source, which has the ability to dissolve... everything, and leave me refreshed. I am an emotional person, exteremly so. But I feed my emotions on something stronger than they are, and more stable.

I forgot to mention one of the biggest of the challenges! Simultaneously to all this I had to sell our house in Germany and empty it of 10 years crap! I had to do this all on my own within a space of three of four months, while commuting between Germany and England. My husband was no help because his security is in all that crap and he kept rescuing things from the rubbish. Don't ask me how it happened, but the house is now empty of everything except two ladders which didn't fit in the car... we have a buyer so that mortgage will now be gone, hooray!!! We go a lousy price, though.
Thanks for the hug, much appreciated!

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-01-2007, 08:41 PM
OFG, the valve theory rings true. We're taught to be little model citizens all our lives while the people around us treat us like crap. Sometimes a dish has to get broken. Better than someone's head.

Sometimes I get really, really, really tired of being everyone's rock. So far, only Ol' Boy has realized (and for some time, too) that *I* actually need a helping hand occasionally. If it weren't for him... I don't know where I'd be.

Well... yeah. I do. I think I'd have done away with myself a long time ago.

Aruna... you deserve another hug. A huge one. And a tip of the hat from a sister rock over here in Okiehomie.:Hug2:

paprikapink
12-02-2007, 03:49 AM
Life can be a big pain in the booty, can't it?

I am lately coming to the conclusion that those tiny little moments that make you smile or sigh with contentment -- moments which all added up comprise but a teensy percentage of one's whole life -- are what life is really about. Not big successes or accomplishments.

Somehow that seems relevant to this thread. How, I haven't figured out.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-02-2007, 04:20 AM
That's it in a nutshell, pap... and it is relevant to this thread. In 'Lonesome Dove', when Gus MacRae said something like "There ain't no good life. There ain't no bad life. There's just life.", I thought he was the greatest philosopher I'd ever heard. Life really is what happens to you while you're making other plans. :) Who the hell ever thought I'd live long enough to enjoy menopause? I was never gonna be 50! LOL!

aruna
12-02-2007, 11:38 AM
I look forward to meeting old friends tonight. Oh, and my good friend Cassiopaeia on Thursday!

kikazaru
12-02-2007, 06:08 PM
This is a wonderful thread and I wish I was taking notes as I was reading so I could respond to the thoughts that were expressed here.

Absolutely I agree that hormonal swings can wreak havoc on a person, PMS is real, and so is PPD which can be devastating, and menopause is not for sissies, but I also do agree with Aruna that people can be taught coping mechanisms to deal with many issues - I do realise not all though, and medical intervention may be necessary. However, when I worked in an office there would always be one or two women who would indulge in bad behaviour and then pass if off as "hormonal" as if it was some sort of "get out of jail free" card, when they were really just using it as an excuse for being nasty. It appalls me that some young women are being taught that they don't have control over what they say or do during this time because they can't help it. When I was growing up I had the wonderful example of my mom who taught me that there is never any excuse for making another person feel bad. My issues and my problems were not that of an other and to take out my frustrations or be less than polite to people was a reflection on me and my self control. Consequently, no matter what I personally was feeling I would never be less than polite to my friends and co-workers. This does not mean that I couldn't say, "I'm sorry I'm having a bad day and need my space" (and often just saying that made me feel better) but I wouldn't never chew someone's head off or make them feel bad because of my problem.

Now that said, I'm in the throes of perimenopause. I've experienced weight gain which pisses me off no end that I can't eat what I want and stay slim, my skin is drier and I had hot flashes. When I say "had" I mean that I used to have them but I started taking my own cocktail of herbal and vitamin remedies, and Evening Primrose Oil plays a large part, as well as Omega 3 capsules - they seem to have done the trick.

As an aside my woman doctor took a leave of absence and in her place I have a male doctor. I'm sure he's knowledgeable and thorough, however when he asked about my periods (almost nonexistant now) and hot flashes and I told him about Evening Primrose, he said to come back and he would prescribe something for the effects of menopause. Now I know that some women absolutely need them, and he was letting me know that help was out there, but it bugged me that he thought that menopause was something that needed to be treated as if it was a condition or problem, instead of something that is very natural.

Elaine Margarett
12-02-2007, 07:15 PM
These seem to be my peri-menopausal symptoms. I've had a few hot flashes, but by far I am cold...constantly. I don't have problems with moods, but my bf who has been sweet and kind all her life (too kind at times) has become awe-inspiring in her rages. I've had three periods in the past year and each time for the month or two afterwards I'll be awash in chills, have heart palpatations at night, and have to get up and pee every two hours despite limiting my drinking. Then everything is hunky-dory until I get my period and the process starts over.

But another symptom I'm experincing all the time is lack of concentration. I'm easily distracted. At times I'll forget what I'm about to say because I either can't come up with the word, or I've already left that conversation in mid-sentence and am actually thinking of something else. It's playing havoc with my writing. I have little to no motivation just when I'm finally getting noticed and requests.

I had the doctor put me on Stattera because I also have ADD which I never sought treatment for since I learned to cope with it, but now it's taking over. The Strattera has stopped me from wandering in circles (as in starting a chore, getting distracted by another thing that needs to be done and literally walking in circles with a hairbrush in my hand before remembering I was going to put it away).

For those of you who've been through it, does the lack of focus get better? Is this what you mean by becoming super-productive after coming through menopause? Thanks!

Elaine Margarett

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-02-2007, 07:23 PM
I still get up to go do something and forget before I get there what I was going to do. I'll rock along, either in writing or conversation, and stumble over the most common word, unable to call it to mind. Forget trying to control getting up in the middle of the night to go pee - it's a good night if I only have to get up once or twice. Cold feet. Hot everything else. Throw the covers off - pull 'em back. Concentration? Lack of focus?

Oh! Something shiny... brb...

What was I saying?

nerds
12-02-2007, 07:31 PM
For those of you who've been through it, does the lack of focus get better? Is this what you mean by becoming super-productive after coming through menopause? Thanks!

Elaine Margarett


I'm not quite done yet, but I'm much, much better, and I can see the post-menopause vigor waiting for me at the end of the tunnel. Finally. The closer I get to the end the better I'm feeling and thinking. For me, once the chemical/hormonal immersement my brain and body were in was addressed, and now that that is also winding down on its own, yes, my focus and clarity are returning inch by inch. CLARITY of thought, omg, I thought I'd lost that permanently.

I don't want to speak for the other ladies here, but I literally get clearer month by month as I move toward what I consider the penultimate heaven of no more feckin' periods. 40-odd years of it is ENOUGH already !!!!

Of my many friends who are through it and done, 100% report that their focus, mental clarity, memory and attention spans have returned in full force. Wonderful.

kikazaru
12-02-2007, 07:36 PM
Lol on the memory thing. I've gone to the fridge to put something away, forget that's what I was doing and grabbed something to eat. Hmm and I wonder why my pants don't fit.Btw I've been taking Ginko Biloba as well. I have no idea if it's working, but now I'm scared to not take it, just in case it is.

Re the chills - it could be hormonal, or the medication you are taking or even something like thyroid issues. Have you told your Dr.?

Elaine Margarett
12-02-2007, 07:53 PM
Re the chills - it could be hormonal, or the medication you are taking or even something like thyroid issues. Have you told your Dr.?[/QUOTE]

I really think it's hormonal, although I'll mention it to my doctor. She wanted to run a thyroid scan but I never got the blood work done. I probably should...but that's another doctor visit, another waiting room to sit and wait in ...

I've read that for some women cold chills are a symptom and a result of hormones not regulating the body properly; a hot flash in reverse. The funny thing is that when I was younger anyone who touched me would comment on how hot I felt, meaning I put out a lot of body heat (although I never felt hot on the inside). Now it's like the inner furnace is turned down too low and I shiver alot.

Good news about the return of normal thought and an upsurge in productivity! I feel like such a slug.

EM

nerds
12-02-2007, 09:37 PM
too funny. We were at a holiday craft festival yesterday and there was a sign that read "Male gynecologists are like auto mechanics who have never owned a car". :)



Interesting. I've had better luck with male gyns than female. Maybe I've just been extra-lucky, but the men have been more willing to give me their time, really talk with me when needed, and more willing to discuss options. Both the female gyns I dealt with were impatient and zipping out the door mid-question, on to their next patient. They also wanted to just throw birth control pills at me for anything and everything. Menfolk for me, thanks.

:)

paprikapink
12-03-2007, 12:28 AM
I prefer women doctors, but I think it's because I'm more comfortable talking to women about body-stuff than I am to men -- it's a me-thing, not a them-thing.

But, I do have a complaint about women doctors (versatile, aren't I?): They are always telling me "well, what I did when this happened to me..." or "I had the same thing and I...". Although I appreciate that their experiences are similar to mine, I'm certain that they're not identical and I'd like my experience to be the one we base my treatment on.

And, if they'd stop to think about it, doctors (especially doctors who had babies while in med school, and toddlers while they were residents, etc.) are not a random or typical sample of the population. I would collapse within hours of enduring the sort of pressure and stress that they can live with for months.