The First Five Pages - Chapter one - Presentation (Discussion)

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Rolling Thunder

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The first thing I got out of this chapter is that surface errors can signal carelessness, sloppiness, ignorance, or defiance of industry standards to an agent or publisher. Okay. I’ve probably done that. Oh, hell…I know I did that with my first submission. :e2paperba Non-standard fonts, weird margins, poor printing, etc., are big turnoffs and should be avoided.

Context is as important as the writing. Devoting time to research, such as figuring out which agent or editor is most appropriate for your work, is crucial. The number-one reason for rejection of a new writer is subbing to the wrong agent or editor. Publisher’s weekly is a good reference but there are others. What other ones have you found that work well? Do you do enough research to narrow your list of queries to the best two or three and is this the best method?

Being explicit when approaching an agent or editor means impressing an agent. This means finding out what an agent has sold versus what you think they have sold, right? Instead of using a shotgun to approach your prey :)D) a rifle makes for a better weapon (How many agents are reading this and considering a restraining order aready? :D). The difficult part I find with this is deciding what genre an agent really prefers, as well as where some of my stuff ‘fits’. Most agents represent different genres and some do say they prefer certain ones to others, but it seems to be a minefield at times.

Smaller mailings have a better chance of being read than submissions sent in a large envelope. Have you found this to be true? There is also the suggestion that it is better to send a guaranteed-signature letter/package than a first-class mailing. Do you think this is good or bad? I prefer to go with email submissions first anyway but could mailings be better off now as far as the slush pile goes since so many writers have turned to email?

I’m not going to go into formatting too much: I use Times New Roman/12 point/double spaced/one inch margins…but; I saw a small snippet about sending out a printed MS’ with printing on only one side of the sheet, not both sides. I knew about this but thought it was worth mentioning to those who are planning their first mail submission.

I thought the Textual Odds and Ends section was interesting. Question marks are the most often misused?????? (graphic example :D) Exclamation points (“Hey!!!!!”) run a close second. Fancy words, foreign expressions, and clichés on the first page seem to make for early rejection, too. I've seen a lot of these mistakes in excerpts on the web. Especially with the 'self-pubbed' works.
 

Linda Adams

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Formatting

Since I'm in the process of looking for a job, :( a lot of this is obviously very similar to shopping around resumes. The very, very first impression before the person even reads it is how it looks. If it's on bright yellow paper (guilty of sending a resume on Astrobrite Yellow twenty years ago), that's going to get an instant impression before the manuscript is even read. It might get a pass solely on the paper because the writer doesn't know how to do business properly. Little things do make a difference.

Context

Research for me seems mostly hit or miss. It works okay when you're first sending the manuscript out, but becomes very time consuming as you progress. I don't think I ever found it that effective other than screening agents out. Now I am doing a different genre, and that may make a difference for future research.

The one thing I disagree with in this chapter is that he says to send the submission by FedEx. The book is a bit dated (it was published in 2000, and I could see it perhaps being useful during the mid-90's, right before everyone started getting PCs). What I've generally seen from agents in their guidelines is that the surest way to draw the wrong kind of attention to a submission to have them sign for it. One mentioned having to go down to the post office to sign for a letter, stand in a long line, and then find out it was only a query letter. I know when I get something like that and have to go to the post office, I'm annoyed myself.

Textual Odds and Ends

This is a little too general for me. He spent more time on formatting than on this. I know there are some other areas that signal an amatuer/beginner writer, and it was a shame he didn't cover it. When Rachel Vater mentioned repetitions as signaling a writer who wasn't ready to get published, I immediately went back to my manuscript and started searching for them. I ended up finding places where I said the same thing in the same paragraph or repeated it a few paragraphs later. This is, unfortunately, easy to do, and unless someone points it out, it's hard to find.

And one overall comment: It's easy to focus on the words and the formatting and give them high importance, but the story itself will be what sells the manuscript.
 
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heyjude

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::Runs in, clutching book:: Am I late? A week? More than a week. Sheesh. Sorry about that. I just found the book and have a question.

On page 29, he says (and I quote) "Usually finding one of these [a question mark] is enough to dismiss a manuscript (not to mention a manuscript filled with them)."

Um, really? One? Am I totally misreading this? What if a character had a question for another character? How would Lukeman feel about this post alone?! (And look, there's an exclamation point!)

Anyone have any thoughts? I mean... I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on what would seem to be a bit of an overstatement.

Thanks and sorry again for being late!
 

Rolling Thunder

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I believe he is referring to this:

"What are you doing???"

"Nothing!!! Leave me alone!!!"

"But how can I do that?????????"


I see a lot of self-pubbed work on the interwebby doing this. If an agent sees it once in an MS, they're done with it.

You still want to be careful with the common use though. For instance:

'Like hell!' he said.
Is okay, but:

'Like hell!' he exclaimed Is redundant. The same goes for 'he/she asked' when ending the dialog with a (?).
 
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Devil Ledbetter

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I believe he is referring to this:

"What are you doing???"

"Nothing!!! Leave me alone!!!"

"But how can I do that?????????"


I see a lot of self-pubbed work on the interwebby doing this. If an agent sees it once in an MS, they're done with it.
I agree that multiple punctuation marks one a rank amateur, but I thought he was also referring to stories that begin with a lot of questions in the narrative, as in Was it time he changed his ways? Would he ever meet the girl of his dreams? And why had he been fired? Suddenly? Without warning?

That was my take on it, anyway.
 

Rolling Thunder

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I'm looking at that paragraph again and his reference is vague, at best. I've never used a series of question marks within a narrative but it could be what he was after. Maybe something was pruned during editing that clarified his reasoning?
 

DamaNegra

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Yeah, I find the example Devil posted to be seriously annoying. It makes me go: "Instead of wasting my time asking me questions why don't you just tell me what the &%#&# just happened?!?!??!?!?!"

But then again, the !?!?!?!??!!?!? also looks pretty amateur. I'd watch out for both.
 

ajkjd01

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I'm seeing more and more agent blogs hating having to sign for submission packages. It's expensive and you start off right up front pissing off the agent. I'd read Lukeman's suggestion on this, and I think word's out...it's now out of date advice.

I followed it the first few queries, and then I started seeing that agents who hate this sometimes refuse to read it, send you a form reject and chuck your stuff in the trash. I will never do this again.
 
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