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JRH
11-22-2007, 07:50 PM
If POD publishers (be they "Small Press" or "Subsidy), show over 500 copies sold for a single book, do they have to specify how many of those were purchased by the Author or his/her friends and relatives. (I would suspect those numbers would be highest for Books published by Poetry.com as that's a prerequisite for inclusion in their volumes)

On a similar note, I would be curious as to how many of those sales could be attributed to "Brick and Mortar" bookstores.

I'd also be curious to know how many of the books published by POD publishers, (particularly books of "Poetry", be they by individuals or Anthologies), can be verified as being found in Public or "School" Libraries.

Just wondering.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

ResearchGuy
11-22-2007, 09:11 PM
If POD publishers (be they "Small Press" or "Subsidy), show over 500 copies sold for a single book, do they have to specify how many of those were purchased by the Author or his/her friends and relatives. (I would suspect those numbers would be highest for Books published by Poetry.com as that's a prerequisite for inclusion in their volumes)

On a similar note, I would be curious as to how many of those sales could be attributed to "Brick and Mortar" bookstores.

I'd also be curious to know how many of the books published by POD publishers, (particularly books of "Poetry", be they by individuals or Anthologies), can be verified as being found in Public or "School" Libraries.

Just wondering.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

Comments in order of your questions:

--No, they have no requirement to give out any information about sales.

--Zero. Maybe one or two copies ordered through bookstores (most likely by relatives), but that would be all. Conceivably a tiny number sold through consignment to a bookstore near an author's home. Exceptions are very few and very far between and still have small numbers of sales. Maybe some with a dozen or two dozen copies sold through bookstores, but even then, most would be by consignment, placed there by the author through arrangement with the bookstore and at author's own cost and risk. For all practical purposes, POD books are invisible to and irrelevant to the book trade.

--There is no central listing of what is in school libraries, but the short answer is that none are in school libraries (zero copies). As for public libraries, you can search at www.worldcat.org (http://www.worldcat.org) .

--Ken

JRH
11-22-2007, 10:30 PM
Thanks Ken,

That's pretty much what I expected and I have to admit, I was less interested in solid answers than in pointing out the futility of POD/Vanity/Self-Publication as a venue for gaining any REAL recognition or "Critical" acceptance, (particularly for books of Poetry).

The only "real" way to achieve success and acclaim is by establishing a reputation through sufficient acceptance and publication in Magazines and Journals to warrant "Book Publication" by established "Traditional" Publishing Houses,

Even then, it's doubtful that that will result in significant sales for Poets. The best that such can do is to open doors to Libraries and Book and Mortar Book Stores and provide elegibility for prizes and awards that can lead to recognition and, possibly, fame. (The possibility of Fortune, or even a stable income, is strictly a FANTASY, except in the rarest of cases, and then, more likely to come through lectures and personal appearances than through sale of their Poems).

I won't knock anyone who believes in themselves enough to want to try this route, but I believe they should do so with the full understanding of the realities and the costs associated with doing so.

Write On,

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

veinglory
11-23-2007, 12:20 AM
I would say two things

1) Yes, self-publishers should be aware that unless their book is distributed with deep dscounts and returns it will not be in brick and mortar stores.

2) Poetry is, however, one of the more appropriate genres for self-publishing if only due to the paucity of other options.

It isn't a matter of "real" versus "not real" but knowing what your goals are and how to aceive them

p.s. of course this *is* a difference between self-publishing and POD, and some small press POD does have full distribution.

JRH
11-23-2007, 05:05 AM
Ah Yes..... The difference between POD (Printing On Demand) which is the printing process which allows small printing runs, and POD (Publishing On Demand), which is a marketing strategy for "Subsidy Publishing" that often utilizes the former.

Small presses, even those that utilize "Printing On Demand" tend to avoid the POD label to the extent they can because of "ONUS" attached to the "Subsidy Publishers, and yes, they are as legitimate as the larger "Traditional Pulbishers are". (The problem for prospective writers being to separate the Small Presses from the PODs), and that's part of what I meant by referring to the writer's obligation to understand the risks and costs involved.

Good Point and Write On,

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

P.S. I meant "REAL" with respect to obtaining Recognition and Respect for one's work, (Which is to say setting reasonable and achievable Goals)

My goal always has been and remains to have my Poetry considered on the same level as Masters such as Frost, Yeat's or Eliot, but, considering that I'm a "Traditional" Poet writing during a period where that concept is rejected by the Modern Poetic Establishment, it seem apparent that MY goal is both "unreasonable" and probably "unachievable", no matter how I proceed, and I am, therefore, acutely aware that NO form of Vanity/Subsidy/Self-Publication can help me achieve that goal unless it actually gets my Poems into Book Stores and Libraries where they can be, hopefully, discovered, (preferably in MY lifetime).

The one good point is that I have NO illusions about the my situation or my chances, (only faith in the quality of what I write), and so I go on collecting "rejection" slips and hoping for the best.