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KTC
11-16-2007, 06:55 PM
The other LuLu thread made me think of something. Has anybody ever thought of doing a private LuLu printing of one copy of their manuscript just for editing purposes? You get it in a paperback format and use that to edit? I always find on paper editing better than on screen. The LuLu thread made me think, "Hmmmmm. I wonder if it would be even better to have the on paper edit be an actual book format?" It would only cost about $10 for one copy...that's not a lot to throw away to have something to red pen edit. And you can do it privately so nobody can access it.

Any thoughts?
(I'm thinking this because I catch a zillion errors in published books while I'm reading them.)

BenPanced
11-16-2007, 06:58 PM
I've heard about people doing it this way because they say any of Lulu's binding methods are cheaper than a local copy shop.

ShebaJones
11-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Honestly, I think it's a good idea, and something I'll probably do in the future.

Siddow
11-16-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm going to use it for the one I'm writing now for NaNo. For the last few years, Lulu has extended an offer of one free copy of their NaNo novel to all the winners. Last year I wrote a book for my son and used the offer to get it printed for him (big hit!).

This year, if I can finish this blasted thing by the 30th, I'm going to do a mad 6-week edit on it and get my reading copy. I think the deadline for NaNoers is January 16th.

Shadow_Ferret
11-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Hmm. I"ve heard of Little Lulu, she was a comic book character.

And I've heard of "That's a lulu!" meaning that's big.

But I have no idea what lulu means in this case.

KTC
11-16-2007, 07:12 PM
www.lulu.com

Bubastes
11-16-2007, 07:12 PM
I think it's a great idea and I plan to do this. I'm sure that the change in format will make my mistakes pop out even more.

Shadow_Ferret
11-16-2007, 07:13 PM
www.lulu.com (http://www.lulu.com)
Ew! That's a joke, right?

KTC
11-16-2007, 07:15 PM
Ew! That's a joke, right?

I don't get what you're saying? I'm talking about printing 1 copy in paperback version to redline edit. It remains private. No joke.

illiterwrite
11-16-2007, 07:17 PM
But why is that easier than just printing off your MS with a lot of white space for edits/new scenes, etc.?

Stew21
11-16-2007, 07:18 PM
i think it's a great idea too. I printed off my MS to edit, put it in a 2 inch 3 ring binder - it's a huge pain in the butt - it's so big and bulky. It'd be better to have it in book form - if for nothing but the ease of carrying it.
and I do think having it in a different format would be helpful.

KTC
11-16-2007, 07:18 PM
But why is that easier than just printing off your MS with a lot of white space for edits/new scenes, etc.?


Just thinking a fresh way of looking at it. A new way to grab the illusive errors.

ETA: I'm also talking about after you finish the edits where you add and delete scenes. I'm thinking the final polish where you may add subtract a few words, but mostly just catching all the little hiccups.

Stew21
11-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Just thinking a fresh way of looking at it. A new way to grab the illusive errors.


exactly.
sometimes you have to look at it from a different angle - book form might be that different angle.

willietheshakes
11-16-2007, 07:23 PM
And given the way even the most minor of errors SCREAMS at me when looking at my printed books, I think it'd be a good use of time and dollars.

Shadow_Ferret
11-16-2007, 07:36 PM
I don't get what you're saying? I'm talking about printing 1 copy in paperback version to redline edit. It remains private. No joke.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were literally going to use that as a publishing and distribution tool for your novel.

illiterwrite
11-16-2007, 07:44 PM
And given the way even the most minor of errors SCREAMS at me when looking at my printed books, I think it'd be a good use of time and dollars.

That's why I don't like to look at it now. Just in case.

GeorgieB
11-16-2007, 07:47 PM
Any thoughts?
(I'm thinking this because I catch a zillion errors in published books while I'm reading them.)

You betcha! I will probably try LuLu for this year's NaNo effort, perhaps for the second edit. I'll have them print it on 8.5x11 paper and spiral bind it. Much thinner than a three-ring binder.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

willietheshakes
11-16-2007, 08:14 PM
That's why I don't like to look at it now. Just in case.

Heh. Yup.

veinglory
11-17-2007, 03:18 AM
I think that, out of respect for our self-publishing members, 'eww' might not be a considerate response anyway. People publish different ways for different reasons.

scarletpeaches
11-17-2007, 03:19 AM
Just thinking a fresh way of looking at it. A new way to grab the illusive errors.

ETA: I'm also talking about after you finish the edits where you add and delete scenes. I'm thinking the final polish where you may add subtract a few words, but mostly just catching all the little hiccups.

Spaz.

KTC
11-17-2007, 03:37 AM
You're annoying me, Judas.

scarletpeaches
11-17-2007, 03:40 AM
Only spazzes use LuLu.

Julie Worth
11-17-2007, 03:46 AM
The other LuLu thread made me think of something. Has anybody ever thought of doing a private LuLu printing of one copy of their manuscript just for editing purposes?

I used to do this, but now I just get them for beta readers, and occasionally for submissions. I found I can edit much faster onscreen.

ChunkyC
11-17-2007, 03:51 AM
I think it's a pretty interesting idea.

I like to switch fonts and line spacing for a polish-pass. Normally I write in manuscript format with Courier for the first few drafts, but then I'll change it to something like Garamond and single line spacing. It looks more like a finished book, and I catch a lot of stuff I missed on previous editing/revision passes. So I can see the merit of having a printed book for an editing pass. It would be a little like galleys for us poor shlubs who don't have a publisher to send us galleys. :)

KTC
11-17-2007, 04:55 AM
Exactly, Chunky. A galleyesque something to look at. (-;

SilverPhoenix
11-17-2007, 03:24 PM
I'm lucky. My dad owns a printing company.
I get as many copies of my writing as I want, in any form I ask.
Plus plenty of free stationery =)

I hate trying to edit onscreen. Having it in front of me makes it fresher and clearer and I get to have fun with coloured pens ;)

I think it's a good idea to have a print-out of your entire novel also as an extra back-up. You never know when every bit of technology is going to decide it hates you and delete everything.

WittyandorIronic
11-17-2007, 04:23 PM
The program I use to edit transfers my chapters and scenes to an ebook format that looks like a book on screen (textured pages, 2 page panels) and a lot of mistakes pop out at me, even after I am "satisfied" with a scene for that draft. lol. I imagine an actual book layout would do wonders.

Julie Worth
11-17-2007, 05:07 PM
I hate trying to edit onscreen.

Try putting it in "reading layout."

KAP
11-17-2007, 06:34 PM
I'm trying the Lulu-as-copier strategy for two novels. It was easy to select the option where no one but me can find or make a copy of my novels. It's definitely not self-publishing the way I did it, only making a really novel-like copy.

My objective is to have something for friends and acquaintances who ask to read one of my novels. The Lulu copies will replace pages I print out using my idea of a reader-friendly format and stick in 3-ring binders. I can see potential for using Lulu copies as an editing tool, though. Aside from viewing your work in a new format (a good idea, I think), you can add big margins and lots of room between lines if you want room for notes. It shouldn't cost much more that way.

One novel I printed is 104K words. I printed it in a 6 x 9 format using 1 1/2 spacing and TNR 12. It came out to 420 pages or so. I think I overdid the reader-friendly thing with it, putting only 27 lines per page, but... eh. It cost $13. Then shipping is about $3.50 bookrate.

The other novel I printed is 94K. I printed it in a 6 x 9 format using 1 1/2 spacing and TRN 11. It'll still have less words per page than storebought. It'll have 29 lines per page, where one in that format I used to compare has 33. This novel of mine came out to 320 pages and cost $11 and change, then the $3.50 to ship.

I look forward to seeing the product.

JoNightshade
11-28-2007, 03:47 AM
I wanted to dig up this thread to say that I am almost finished doing this now, and I HIGHLY recommend it. I ordered a copy from Lulu to give to my parents this Christmas, but when I got it I couldn't help but read it a bit. Then I started discovering mistakes. And more mistakes. And more.

After having gone over my manuscript on-screen and printed out more times than I care to think about, I couldn't believe how much stuff jumped out at me just from reading it in book-form. I think partially it was because it had been a month since I'd looked at the manuscript, but mostly it was because, as others have said, mistakes in books just SCREAM at me.

Anyway this copy is definitely not going to my parents, and I am really thankful I did this because it helped me catch a lot of stupid mistakes!

Things I saw:
- "that"
- pronoun confusion
- accidental name changes
- missing words
- formatting mistakes

KTC
11-28-2007, 04:14 AM
Awesome, Jo. I'm glad to hear it works...even if that's not the original reason you got the book from LuLu. I am going to do it for sure. It's worth the $6 or $8, or whatever it is. Enlighten us. How much did your copy cost? =]

JoNightshade
11-28-2007, 04:15 AM
I think with shipping and stuff mine turned out to be like $15. My manuscript was 117K and I did it in the 6x9 format, came out to something like 450 pages. I liked the size and the paper quality is really good, better than your average paperback pulp.

KTC
11-28-2007, 04:20 AM
Wow! That's a lot of pages. Well worth the 15 bucks. A fresh way to look at your manuscript...the last edit.

edgyllama
11-28-2007, 04:49 AM
Fascinating!

KAP
11-28-2007, 07:26 AM
Yesterday I received the first copy I ordered through Lulu. I'm quite impressed with the quality. This is the one I went overboard on as far as readability by using TNR 12 and 1 1/2 line spacing, giving me only 27 lines per page in the 6 x 9 format. It's 104K words and came out to 422 pages for $13 plus shipping. It'd be a good copy to give another writer because there's room to make comments between lines, but it's roomier, textwise, than a published novel needs to be for someone reading for entertainment.

I'll model future copies on published novels and incorporate things learned through my limited experience. I'll increase the borders (especially the "gutter" where it's bound, important when there are more than 200 pages) and reduce text to TNR 11 with line spacing that gives 40 lines per page. The novel I had printed with 422 pages will now come out to be something like 290 pages, even with the bigger margins. It'll cost $10.40 instead of $13. It still will be easier on the eyes than mass market paperbacks and with less words per page than most trade paperbacks I own, too.

PM me if you're interested in the specifics I've learned. I've already ordered copies of other novels through Lulu, and it'll be interesting to compare once they arrive.

I haven't read through it to see what errors pop out at me I've overlooked on screen. Someone's been waiting to read it, and I love to be read, so it's off already.

kap

Will Lavender
11-28-2007, 08:18 AM
I've definitely thought about it, and think it's a great idea.

My problem is that I've usually promised I'll have the manuscript to somebody the next day. So I finish, off to Kinko's, off to the post office, and then home for a late dinner.

This is the bane of the procrastinator.

Christine N.
11-28-2007, 07:19 PM
I'm planning on doing this with my WIP when I finally finish it. But I'm thinking of 8.5x11 in plasticoil, because a) it's a little cheaper, and b)it's easier to get to lay flat. And I don't have to use up all my paper and ink doing it.