Edward's plan...

Voyager

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Is it me, or is anyone else sick to death of the same bullshit rhetoric already. None of them are impressing me.
 

InfinityGoddess

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Sounds to me like he's running a distant third and is trying to buy votes.

No, more like he's pounding Clinton the way he should and running a populist platform to boot.

Polls don't really mean anything at this point. Just wait until the voting begins. Then you'll see something substantial.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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No, more like he's pounding Clinton the way he should and running a populist platform to boot.

Polls don't really mean anything at this point. Just wait until the voting begins. Then you'll see something substantial.
Pupulist platform? Is that what they call it when they make extravagent spending promises with our money?
 

MattW

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It "spends" money and wastes it when it comes to pork and unnecessary warfare.
...and inefficient and ineffectual welfare and social programs. And buying out those programs. And revamping those programs. And expanding those programs well beyond their intended scope.
 

InfinityGoddess

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...and inefficient and ineffectual welfare and social programs. And buying out those programs. And revamping those programs. And expanding those programs well beyond their intended scope.

Uh, what? No. Those "social programs" are overwhelmingly popular programs for the people. They're "investments".
 

xhouseboy

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Jean Marie

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Is it me, or is anyone else sick to death of the same bullshit rhetoric already. None of them are impressing me.
Yes. They all suck and should be ashamed of themselves...wait a sec, know what's really frightening? this is the best of the best, as in, this is what we get to pick from.

I demand a do-over, dammit! There's got to be someone out there who's far more capable than these...choices...

Are you sure you're not thinking of college football?
That's where at the end of the season, the writers and coaches get together to choose the winner out of the top contenders. Therefore, based on that theory, this being a writer's board, and Mac being the owner (filling in the position of coach), we get to pick the winner.

Works for me :)
 

poetinahat

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It "invests" money into things like infrastructure, social safety nets and the like.
One could use exactly the same rhetoric to frame tax cuts for the wealthy, on the premise that they promote business investment, create jobs, and raise the standard of living for everyone.

Whether the investment actually provides any return, and how that return is measured, is another story.

Uh, what? No. Those "social programs" are overwhelmingly popular programs for the people. They're "investments".
But is the success or the appropriateness of an investment measured by how popular it is? And with whom? Free home theatres for everyone might be a popular idea, but is it the best thing?

Spending money in popular ways could just as easily be called vote-buying. Again, the rhetoric isn't absolute; it depends on ideological frame of reference. Without recognising that, arguing about the use of these terms is futile.
 

clintl

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Whether the investment actually provides any return, and how that return is measured, is another story.

Based on the last 25 years of experience with this, the answer is that it was a great deal for the wealthy, but no one else got any benefit from it.

Warren Buffett apparently recently compared his own actual tax rate to those of his employees, and it was lower than any of them (17.7%). The average in his office was over 31% - his secretary, who makes $60,000 a year, had a tax rate at 30%. The notion that the wealthy pay much higher tax rates than the middle class is apparently a huge lie - and Buffett deserves a lot of credit for exposing the fraud being perpetrated on us by conservatives, and arguing for higher taxes on the wealthy.
 

poetinahat

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Yep, clint -- wasn't it Reagan who referred to this as "trickle-down economics"? I remember a cartoon of the time -- possibly at my college paper -- that had the caption "Trickle-Down Economics"... and showed Reagan, er, relieving himself on the population in general.
 

Joe270

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Warren Buffett apparently recently compared his own actual tax rate to those of his employees, and it was lower than any of them (17.7%). The average in his office was over 31% - his secretary, who makes $60,000 a year, had a tax rate at 30%.

Yep, but without Buffett, those folks wouldn't be paying those taxes, now would they?

Certainly not at that level of pay.

Rich businessmen make jobs, most of 'em in the country. Those employees pay taxes.
 

MattW

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Yep, but without Buffett, those folks wouldn't be paying those taxes, now would they?

Certainly not at that level of pay.

Rich businessmen make jobs, most of 'em in the country. Those employees pay taxes.
Meanwhile, many of the most popular tax benefits are capped at income of $100 to $160K. That might seem like a lot of money, but not for a two income household in a high cost of living area. It's solid middle class territory.

There's the unlucky spot between "tax breaks for the wealthy" and "tax breaks for the poor" where people are just struggling to ensure they aren't poor, and could just be successful enough to become wealthy. They don't make enough to leverage complicated tax shelters, but they make too much to ever qualify for all the benefit programs they are being taxed for. And they bear the full brunt of ever new program proposed.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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It "invests" money into things like infrastructure, social safety nets and the like.

It "spends" money and wastes it when it comes to pork and unnecessary warfare.
With this kind of dancing, you should be competing on Dancing with the Stars.

Most impressive.
 

SarahinOhio

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The marginal tax rate on the wealthiest Americans was 91% under Eisenhower (a Republican, if you'll remember). Yes, this was insane.

Today, it is 35%, and that isn't taking into account the 15% capital gains rate that clintl referred to, and that hedge fund managers gleefully take advantage of. Yes, this is insane.

When Clinton is President, I imagine she'll move the income rate back up to 38% (pre-Bush rate). Conservatives will freak, and call her an insane commie liberal.




Trickle, trickle.
 
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donroc

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While anticipating taxing the wealthy more, one had better understand how "middle class" aka non-wealthy, non poor, will be defined. Even on this thread, I doubt if we could reach agreement. And do not forget all our other taxes, State in most cases, property, sales, and those on utilities. Do I hear 50%????

www.donaldmichaelplatt.com
 

whistlelock

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Yep, but without Buffett, those folks wouldn't be paying those taxes, now would they?

Certainly not at that level of pay.

Rich businessmen make jobs, most of 'em in the country. Those employees pay taxes.
So...what's your point?

Rich people that own business and employ workers shouldn't have to pay taxes?

That only thier employee's should pay taxes?