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necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 12:38 AM
Check out Lanaia Lee. (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/LanaiaLee.html) She has some problems. The biggest being that she took a book that was already published changed some of the names, changed the title and self pubbed it.

Yes.

She self published it.

Here (http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/10/11/top-10-tips-for-plagairists/) is the blog where I first heard about it. And if this is a redundant post I apologize.

WendyNYC
10-12-2007, 12:46 AM
Jeez. She could have at least changed a word here and there.

That takes some chutzpah.

Bubastes
10-12-2007, 12:46 AM
She (or her ghost writer) didn't even manage to change the names all the way through. The name "Alexander" still shows up in the changed version.

And I'm not sure if she knew she self-pubbed it. She used an "agent" whose sales were to PublishAmerica.

If she's actually the victim of multiple scammers, I feel sorry for her.

Koobie
10-12-2007, 12:48 AM
That's very durrrrrrrrr. Also, I generally get bloody annoyed by the mini-bios people write about themselves in 3rd person.

skelly
10-12-2007, 01:07 AM
I don't know why she doesn't take down her web site...she's getting trashed in her own little message board and chat-box thingie. It's an awful thing to see...

Tish Davidson
10-12-2007, 01:19 AM
She (or her ghost writer) didn't even manage to change the names all the way through. The name "Alexander" still shows up in the changed version.

And I'm not sure if she knew she self-pubbed it. She used an "agent" whose sales were to PublishAmerica.

If she's actually the victim of multiple scammers, I feel sorry for her.

If she submitted it, she must have known it was plagiarized, regardless of whether her "agent" or "publisher" scammed her.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 01:20 AM
Of Atlantis is totally mine. I have the original manuscript, and witnesses to my work. I put two years of my life in this book, the copy right, I own. I am appalled some one would think I am that dishonesy!


That says it all, I think.

I do pity this sad woman, bound to her wheelchair, mourning the loss of ten children, raised by a dark witch, trying to gain some sort of validation by stealing other people's work.

How very sad.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 01:24 AM
Like her physical issues change the fact that she is a thief.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 01:30 AM
All I can say is, Wow!
Although some of the comments on Dear Author are incredibly funny, I agree with the last ones.
1) She is either a delusional and/or incredibly gullible woman who got suckered several times over (In which case, I still have very little sympathy) OR
2) She is a raving scam artist who has abused another authors work, and offended every person even remotely connected with wheel chairs, children, stroke victims, married people, hypertension disorders, females, males, people who can read, and/or jack russell terrier owners.
That's a pretty big list to accomplish in one fell swoop.

wee
10-12-2007, 01:39 AM
I love this from the "Top Ten" comments:


If she writes from the heart, her heart must beat like this: CTRL + C, CTRL + V, CTRL + C, CTRL + V…

There is also some suggestion in the comments that Janet Dailey's work has the hint of plagiarism to it?

??!



wee

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 01:39 AM
All I can say is, Wow!
Although some of the comments on Dear Author are incredibly funny, I agree with the last ones.
1) She is either a delusional and/or incredibly gullible woman who got suckered several times over (In which case, I still have very little sympathy) OR
2) She is a raving scam artist who has abused another authors work, and offended every person even remotely connected with wheel chairs, children, stroke victims, married people, hypertension disorders, females, males, people who can read, and/or jack russell terrier owners.
That's a pretty big list to accomplish in one fell swoop.

:ROFL:

**snerk**

I don't see what the point is. What gain can you have, especially in plagiarizing such a well known author.

aadams73
10-12-2007, 01:45 AM
There is also some suggestion in the comments that Janet Dailey's work has the hint of plagiarism to it?


She totally ripped off Nora Roberts a while back.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 01:46 AM
Wait...oh god(dess). They just added Wiccans to the mix...
See...before it was just a general "i'm disgusted to be in the same Genus as you" seeing as I don't own any jack russell terriers.... but now. Now, it's personal.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 01:47 AM
Wait...oh god(dess). They just added Wiccans to the mix...
See...before it was just a general "i'm disgusted to be in the same Genus as you" seeing as I don't own any jack russell terriers.... but now. Now, it's personal.

what? where?

I missed that one...

shakeysix
10-12-2007, 01:47 AM
i am female, have hypertension, own a jack russel terrier and am preparing to be offended!--s6

wee
10-12-2007, 01:49 AM
She totally ripped off Nora Roberts a while back.


See, I had no idea who she was. LOL. Now I know she has mental problems:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:jBJSIDXRfdEJ:www.kkcomcon.com/KApolog.pdf+janet+dailey+nora+roberts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=firefox-a


Wish I could blame all my weird behavior on never-before-heard-of mental problems, but unfortunately, I'm just responsible. And I'm sorry. 'sniff.

wee
10-12-2007, 01:51 AM
i am female, have hypertension, own a jack russel terrier and am preparing to be offended!--s6


And quit dogging me or I'll have another stroke & there'll be blood on your hands!


wee


PS -- so sorry! I plagiarized that poor woman. Please ignore my above comment. (taken from above link)

Pat~
10-12-2007, 01:51 AM
This is truly sad, though there is a strong possibility that her stroke may have left her a bit mentally disabled as well. That might account for the lack of touch with reality she seems to evidence.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 01:52 AM
From her website:


Welcome to the realm of Dark Poet Lanaia Lee. You will find on this page samples of her works, be able to purchase her books and much much more. Dare you venture into this place? Will you hear the tortured cries for help? The woeful pleading? Or the agonizing screams that will surround you at every turn? Prepare to engulf yourself into a world where Edgar Allan Poe still lives. Could Lanaia be Poes female reincarnation? Journey with us into the dark side, let us take leave of our bright, light filled world and allow Lanaia Lee to be our tour guide as we travel though realms unknown. Will we return? Can we return? Perhaps, perhaps nevermore.........


This site doesn't mention "Of Atlantis", which is wise. It's filled with poetry that I'm willing to bet is NOT plagarized. Perhaps it really was all the ghost-writer's fault.

The message board at the site linked is filled with hate mail, and the message boards at her private site are filled with spam. She's been outed, and could face charges...though I kind of doubt it.

I think the interesting part of the train wreck is probably over.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 01:54 AM
From DearAuthor.com:
"Velma
Posted: Oct 11th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
112

Things are getting more interesting: her publisher is apparently incapable of telling the difference between your blog and Making Light, and is now threatening you with lawsuits and “wiccan” tenfold retaliation there. It doesn’t bode well for Lee or Pillsbury."



God(dess)...somedays it is hard to know I share the same breath as these people, let alone that we check the same box on the religion questionnaire.... Someone really needs to come up with a way to excommunicate Wiccans from the path... Ya' know, so we could all point and say, "She was too crazy for us, sorry. You can have her back."

dolores haze
10-12-2007, 01:56 AM
She (or her ghost writer) didn't even manage to change the names all the way through. The name "Alexander" still shows up in the changed version.

And I'm not sure if she knew she self-pubbed it. She used an "agent" whose sales were to PublishAmerica.

If she's actually the victim of multiple scammers, I feel sorry for her.


I'm leaning towards believing that this woman got totally scammed.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 01:56 AM
And quit dogging me or I'll have another stroke & there'll be blood on your hands!

that's Mt. Blood to you, missy

Monkey
10-12-2007, 02:03 AM
I think the interesting part of the train wreck is probably over.




Things are getting more interesting: her publisher is apparently incapable of telling the difference between your blog and Making Light, and is now threatening you with lawsuits and “wiccan” tenfold retaliation there. It doesn’t bode well for Lee or Pillsbury."


I stand corrected.

Bubastes
10-12-2007, 02:03 AM
I'm leaning towards believing that this woman got totally scammed.

Scammed twice. That is just so wrong.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 02:08 AM
It just occurred to me that MeowGirl's tag line applies *even more* to plagiarized work, but in a different way...

badducky
10-12-2007, 02:08 AM
There seem to be a honking load of articles in this site.

Have they been checked in google?

Freelancing-for-Website-People, be sure run down the list on the right-and side of their website and see if any of those titles look like something you wrote.

Never hurts to double-check.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 02:19 AM
I hadn't thought of it being a scam. I figured she was lying out her butt.

People are that gullible?

Marian Perera
10-12-2007, 02:21 AM
People are that gullible?

Take a look at the Publish America message board. Yes, they are.

wee
10-12-2007, 02:22 AM
God(dess)...somedays it is hard to know I share the same breath as these people, let alone that we check the same box on the religion questionnaire.... Someone really needs to come up with a way to excommunicate Wiccans from the path... Ya' know, so we could all point and say, "She was too crazy for us, sorry. You can have her back."



Ya want one of our city councilwomen here? The one with dead, rotting animals hanging all around her house to protect from getting abducted by aliens again? She is the first person I met in real life who adheres to Wicca.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 02:32 AM
God(dess) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....
Alright...seriously...I feel compelled to defend my faith here, though normally I am really too lazy to care.
Most likely the crazy councilwoman and Laina the Liar are NOT the first wiccan personages you have met. Most likely you have met 1000's...(well,maybe like 998)
But like most people they don't walk around going "I'm normal, and I am Wiccan. Would you like to have a non religious, non weird, non dead animal related conversation?" But, just like other faiths, the ONE guy on the news screaming he is Wiccan has a swiffer sweeper in one hand (with little lightning bolts painted on the side) and a cardboard wizard hat on his head, and he is "cursing" the screaming catholic across the street from him who has a life size, robotic, nativity scene in his front yard ALL year around and is throwing buckets of holy water on the wiccans property.
We all have our crazies.... /sigh.

PattiTheWicked
10-12-2007, 02:34 AM
I'm leaning towards believing that this woman got totally scammed.

But see, here's the thing. Unless you were raised by a tribe of platypi or something, you know that it's wrong to take other people's work and claim it as your own. You learn that in elementary school, for Pete's sake.

She may have gotten scammed by a bogus agent and by PA, but that's a whole separate issue than the fact that she's a plagiarizing thief.

She stole someone else's stuff and then she got ripped off.

:::sniff, sniff::: What's that smell? Oh! It's irony!

:)

PattiTheWicked
10-12-2007, 02:35 AM
God(dess) screaming he is Wiccan has a swiffer sweeper in one hand (with little lightning bolts painted on the side) and a cardboard wizard hat on his head

Ah, you've met my friend Carl!

wee
10-12-2007, 02:38 AM
W a/o I:

That is one of the funniest posts I've read in a while. Our crazy councilwoman threatens to hex everybody who disagrees with her.

But the crazier part is that she keeps getting elected. wooooo! Many people don't know her by her real name around here ... she is known as Squirrely Shirley.

I'm addicted to refreshing the comments on the original link & on Making Light (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html) where Pillsbury is making all her threats. It's one of the most amazing things I've seen online, happening live.


wee

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 02:40 AM
Just a quick question Patti...
Supposedly she cursed her with "wiccan blah,blah,blah 10fold"
I have yet to decide if I am more annoyed that she claims some Wiccan connection and is too ignorant to get the BASIC theology right...
Or if I am relieved that she is so transparently stupid. What do you think?

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 02:42 AM
Our crazy councilwoman threatens to hex everybody who disagrees with her.

But the crazier part is that she keeps getting elected. wooooo! Many people don't know her by her real name around here ... she is known as Squirrely Shirley.

ROFL!


I'm addicted to refreshing the comments on the original link & on Making Light (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html) where Pillsbury is making all her threats. It's one of the most amazing things I've seen online, happening live.

HAHA! Me too. I was totally on a roll with my outline, and then Estermish (pointed glare) had to post something so unintentionally hilarious.

Marian Perera
10-12-2007, 02:42 AM
But see, here's the thing. Unless you were raised by a tribe of platypi or something, you know that it's wrong to take other people's work and claim it as your own. You learn that in elementary school, for Pete's sake.

I hang out on another board where a college student once posted an essay she had written. Her professor had asked to see her about the essay, and she was worried that the prof would accuse her of plagiarism. Naturally, someone googled the essay, and the actual writer's name - along with the original version, just a few words changed - was on the first page of google hits.

The student explained to us that she had written down ideas and so on from the actual writer's work, to help her compose her essay. Unfortunately, she had mistaken this rough draft (which was 100% someone else's work) for her own essay. A simple mistake that anyone could have made.

It only goes to show that people can and do rationalize and justify anything.

wee
10-12-2007, 02:44 AM
Just a quick question Patti...
Supposedly she cursed her with "wiccan blah,blah,blah 10fold"
I have yet to decide if I am more annoyed that she claims some Wiccan connection and is too ignorant to get the BASIC theology right...
Or if I am relieved that she is so transparently stupid. What do you think?


When people go around with posterboards that say, "God hates f-----s" should I feel annoyed that they making all Christians look like hate-mongerers or be relieved that they have so little knowledge of my faith that surely no one would mistake them for being a Christian like me?

I know which one I feel. :cry:

Not trying to hijack, just sayin' that people of other faiths don't sort out which ones belong & which ones don't ... they think it's all the same. I think that's why it's important to speak out.


wee

aadams73
10-12-2007, 02:49 AM
Plagiarizers make me want to puke. If I write something that sounds a bit too clever, I google/amazon search it to make sure I haven't inadvertently lifted it from something I've read.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 02:49 AM
Mmmmm.....yeah...when you go all logical I guess I can see your point. :)

wee
10-12-2007, 02:54 AM
Sheesh... it may not have been her:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html

just posted...

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 02:55 AM
V. Strauss posted another take on this:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html

brianm
10-12-2007, 02:55 AM
Victoria has a blog up at WB that puts a great deal of light on the subject.

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 02:56 AM
mwahahahsha

Robin Bayne
10-12-2007, 02:59 AM
It's just sad on every side.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 02:59 AM
The newest links and info, courtesy of Dearauthor.com:
http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html

Honestly...I have no sympathy for this woman. She is still a liar and now she has just admitted to being stupid too. Her website is a shameless plug for sympathy and is full of bad prose and ridiculous claims (a black witch....come on!). She PAID someone, a KNOWN con artist, to 'help' write a manuscript and then self-pubbed it. I think her being evil was more palatable...at least it implied some measure of intelligence.

BAH! now I am in a foul mood...I hate having my lack of faith in humanity reaffirmed.

dolores haze
10-12-2007, 03:00 AM
But see, here's the thing. Unless you were raised by a tribe of platypi or something, you know that it's wrong to take other people's work and claim it as your own. You learn that in elementary school, for Pete's sake.

She may have gotten scammed by a bogus agent and by PA, but that's a whole separate issue than the fact that she's a plagiarizing thief.

She stole someone else's stuff and then she got ripped off.

:::sniff, sniff::: What's that smell? Oh! It's irony!

:)

I'm not defending the woman. She was obviously foolish. But there's been too much mention of Christopher Hill. He's a well known scam artist.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 03:02 AM
I just read the Making Light comments.

Wow.

Really wow.

The "agent" can't spell to save her life, and she can't keep her story straight, either.
One minute, the legal papers have been filed, the next they haven't.
One minute, she IS Wicca, the next, she's not a Wiccan.
One *sentence* the publisher she gets her clients contracts with doesn't charge fees; the next *sentence* you only pay for the package you choose.

It's all-out craziness.

Even if Lanaia is just some poor woman who's been scammed multiple times, this "agent" is MOST DEFINITELY crooked. She flat admits to charging fees and brags about sales to Publish America and other vanity presses.

We need to put this woman on the Bewares board.

shakeysix
10-12-2007, 03:04 AM
wow. thanks brian. maybe she was scammed. this whole thing is getting screwier and screwier. i won't accomplish much writing tonight. this is better than batman--s6

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 03:11 AM
I haven't had this much....snerking since the Mediacrat mess back in '04...

What makes me unsympathetic is that when faced with undeniable proof she still lied.

brianm
10-12-2007, 03:18 AM
wow. thanks brian. maybe she was scammed. this whole thing is getting screwier and screwier. i won't accomplish much writing tonight. this is better than batman--s6

I know what you mean. My writing day went kaput the moment I started reading about her. We've been discussing it here, as well.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80224


I haven't had this much....snerking since the Mediacrat mess back in '04...

What makes me unsympathetic is that when faced with undeniable proof she still lied.

Actually, if you read Victoria's blog you will see that she didn't know CH had lifted the pages from a published work. She paid him $400.00 a month to ghostwrite it for her. I believe her story as related on WriterBeware.

ghost
10-12-2007, 03:19 AM
I haven't had this much....snerking since the Mediacrat mess back in '04...

What makes me unsympathetic is that when faced with undeniable proof she still lied.

Actually, when faced with undeniable proof, she admitted immediatly to hiring a ghost writer.

I personally feel sorry for this woman. She's been scammed more than once, shelled out hundreds of dollars (or more) and now she's got to deal with this.

badducky
10-12-2007, 03:24 AM
I hesitate to attack anyone who suffered from a stroke of any sort. You can not hold someone with a brain injury to the same standard you hold everyone else until after you get a trained, professional diagnosis.

Call it personal experience, here, folks. Without a medical professional actually engaged in a diagnosis of her situation - which is, perfectly and honestly none of our business - it's best just to focus on surfing through the rest of that site and doing some sniffing around for other plagiarized things.

Writer Beware's on this one. Making Light is on this one. They've got - apparently - the documentation to flesh out the situation appropriately.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 03:25 AM
I know what you mean. My writing day went kaput the moment I started reading about her. We've been discussing it here, as well.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80224



Actually, if you read Victoria's blog you will see that she didn't know CH had lifted the pages from a published work. She paid him $400.00 a month to ghostwrite it for her. I believe her story as related on WriterBeware.

I realized that after I posted this and I agree with you. This Hill character is truly evil.

here is my question I asked Victoria and over at Making Light:

What sort of legal recourse does she have? I am a wee bit unsympathetic, I'll admit. Her actions since this blew out of the water, or I should say the actions made in her name, have been damning to her reputation and her credibility. But if this is the case what sort of legal action might she face and what sort might she be able to bring out... My brain just fizzled and I can't think of the correct term there.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 03:27 AM
Actually, when faced with undeniable proof, she admitted immediatly to hiring a ghost writer.

I personally feel sorry for this woman. She's been scammed more than once, shelled out hundreds of dollars (or more) and now she's got to deal with this.

Was no one around her concerned that she was doing this?
Re-reading over the various blogs and whatnot has left me wondering if she could file some sort of disabled abuse suit somewhere...

Voyager
10-12-2007, 03:35 AM
One has to (okay you don't have to but...) appreciate the fact that she tried to liven it up but adding the fu*&&ed up punctuation. It adds such a refreshing element to the story. This is so humiliating, why would anyone ever do such a thing? Anybody want to read my new poem, Stopping On A Snowy Evening by Woods?

I think, I know; whose woods were these?

ghost
10-12-2007, 03:40 AM
Was no one around her concerned that she was doing this?
Re-reading over the various blogs and whatnot has left me wondering if she could file some sort of disabled abuse suit somewhere...

That's a good question. I think the problem is that most of us on this board are used to hearing about the scams. So we see the warning signs a mile off.

However, we know nothing about this woman's family and friends. For all we know they are small town folk who don't have access to computers. Or don't have lawyers and scam-educated folks around them.

C. Hill was apparently one hell of a scammer. Who knows what lies he fed her. They must have been good because a lot of people fell for it.

I don't think any of us should ever consider ourselves above scammers. We're not too smart, or wise, or educated. We were all beginners once.

And some people are smoooooth like butter.

badducky
10-12-2007, 03:40 AM
Estermish, sometimes with stroke victims - and i don't know this woman, and i don't claim to - if you find an activity that keeps them still and safe for long periods of time as well as happy most of the time, the cost of a little harmless POD might probably be totally worth it, even if it costs a few hundred bucks. Again, I do NOT know the details of this situation at all, and I don't for one second claim this is what was going on. It's just a hypothetical that's all too plausible for us to start jumping up and down on the woman with the stroke and her family.

The actions of the scammers are odious, but what else can you expect from them? They found a victim.

There are many, many other articles and stories on that website. It might be useful to try a little google-fu. I haven't found anything yet, and I'm already quite bored so I'm stopping now. Still, poke around and see if anything looks familiar.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 03:51 AM
true.
I watched my grandfather get scammed out of several thousand dollars by a vanity press so I am always questioning, always cynical.

I am amazed at the large number of people who, in this day and age, don't question what they are told.

I wonder if it was even her responding to the comments and not her 'agent'.

ghost
10-12-2007, 03:56 AM
I got scammed by a car dealership once because my sister-in-law vouched for the guy and said he was good. He had given her friend a great deal on a car (which was true). However, he stole my money and got fired two days later for stealing computers.

I had to threaten to sue the dealership but they eventually returned my money.

And I've always thought I was clever when it came to scams.
The worst part was "I was suspicious!!!" But I trusted my sister-in-law and thought she knew what she was doing. I told myself I was reading into things too much. So much for not trusting myself. :)

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 03:58 AM
I'm sorry badducky...but you still have not struck my sympathy bone.
All of these quotes are her own:
From her website:
"...but they live totally independently and on their own."
and from Writersbeware:
"...Of Atlantis is totally mine. I have the original manuscript, and witnesses to my work. I put two years of my life in this book, the copy right, I own. I am appalled some one would think I am that dishonesy!"
and from her comments on MakeLight:
"...Yes, I am guilty of listening to the advice of Christopher Hill, but that is the only mistake I made."

SHE may have been scammed...but she was trying to scam EVERYONE else when said scamming happened. I realize that I can not know her personal medical history, nor do I have intimate knowledge of lingering Stroke/Brain issues...but I just don't buy "my stroke caused a disorder which makes me trust untrustworthy people while trying to pass off someone elses work as my own and then lie to cover it."

veinglory
10-12-2007, 03:59 AM
It's hard to back down under the digital spotlights. Not to excuse her, but given a few days the denial and bluster will probably vanish.

badducky
10-12-2007, 04:13 AM
Witty and Ironic, you've never dealt with stroke victims before, have you?

Her actions and language and typing ability read too familiar for me to be quick to point fingers at the woman. People with brain damage - and that's what a stroke is: permanent brain damage - cannot really be held to the same standards as everyone else until a medical diagnostician has cleared them. We have not seen that.

Delusions and shameless lying are only two of many symptoms of brain damage.

I'm not suggesting sympathy. I'm suggesting that you let the experts deal with that side of things and focus on the stuff we can do to help.

Edit: I'm also not even suggesting the woman is brain damaged. I don't know. Neither do you. The documentary evidence is in the hands of experts who are piecing this together. We are not doctors. We do not diagnose any stroke-victims sanity. Or anyone else's, either.

Voyager
10-12-2007, 04:16 AM
Reading all that Victoria has posted, etc. I have come to one firm conclusion. Hill is a son of a bitch.

PattiTheWicked
10-12-2007, 04:16 AM
I have yet to decide if I am more annoyed that she claims some Wiccan connection and is too ignorant to get the BASIC theology right...
Or if I am relieved that she is so transparently stupid. What do you think?

Heh. It's people like that who usually cause me to hold up the "doesn't speak for me" card. Personally, I'm just glad Cheryl's such a moron that even the non-Pagans are calling her out on this. Besides, in my experience those who hex the best do so the most quietly :)


What makes me unsympathetic is that when faced with undeniable proof she still lied.

'zactly. Eventually she did come around -- when it became clear that there was no way to weasel out of it -- but originally she claimed ten ways to Sunday that she was the original author.


Actually, if you read Victoria's blog you will see that she didn't know CH had lifted the pages from a published work. She paid him $400.00 a month to ghostwrite it for her. I believe her story as related on WriterBeware.

I'm not sure I buy Lanaia's version of this, but I look at it this way. Worst case scenario, she's a plagiarist and a liar. Best case, she's not real bright, because this work was "from her heart and soul" but she didn't stop to do any kind of checking on Hill before she spent $400 a month on him.

And if she's as disabled as she's claiming to be, and unable to make these sorts of decisions on her own and take responsibility for her own actions, then this is an even bigger shit storm than anyone every expected it to be.

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 04:25 AM
Her actions and language and typing ability read too familiar for me to be quick to point fingers at the woman. People with brain damage - and that's what a stroke is: permanent brain damage - cannot really be held to the same standards as everyone else until a medical diagnostician has cleared them. We have not seen that.

Delusions and shameless lying are only two of many symptoms of brain damage.



I was going to stay out of this thread, but I have to second this. Saying a stroke can't be an excuse for irrational behavior is like saying a broken leg can't be an excuse for a limp. It's possible this woman is a liar, but badducky is right, there's no way of knowing or guessing without first being fully informed of her medical history.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 04:29 AM
Witty and Ironic, you've never dealt with stroke victims before, have you?

Her actions and language and typing ability read too familiar for me to be quick to point fingers at the woman. People with brain damage - and that's what a stroke is: permanent brain damage - cannot really be held to the same standards as everyone else until a medical diagnostician has cleared them. We have not seen that.

Delusions and shameless lying are only two of many symptoms of brain damage.

I'm not suggesting sympathy. I'm suggesting that you let the experts deal with that side of things and focus on the stuff we can do to help.

Edit: I'm also not even suggesting the woman is brain damaged. I don't know. Neither do you. The documentary evidence is in the hands of experts who are piecing this together. We are not doctors. We do not diagnose any stroke-victims sanity. Or anyone else's, either.

Insanity/Brain Damage/Rough Life/Currently Jobless/Aliens/Sh*tty Childhoods - all of these are not free passes. I'm sorry.
I am not commenting on her competency...she already did. She claimed she was competent. She then claimed MANY other things that spoke of lies and deceitfulness. People deemed incompetent, i.e. the insane and the damaged, are still held accountable. Do the rules differ? Sure. Do the rules not apply? No.
I am not debating her medical history or the possible implications therein, I am simply stating that those "possible implications" do not negate her own responsibility.

veinglory
10-12-2007, 04:30 AM
There is some middle ground between medical issues are versus are not an excuse. It comes down to condemning the behaviour not the person. It may seem like a stretch but the 'respect your fellow writer' rule seems to work even in extremis. It was a foolish thing to do but as a woman who once drove 8 miles in the snow on a moped and then defended it as a logical action I guess I know how you can end up doing stupid things and trying to excuse them without necessarily being a bad person.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 04:34 AM
That...I might be able to deal with as a middle ground. I guess my ire is raised by the possibility that the actions are excused by illness....I can agree a *little* more that the actions are inexcusable, but that the woman might not be as accountable.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 04:43 AM
If she was scammed and to be pittied and felt sorry for why is she still threatening legal action over at Making Light? Or someone using her name is threatening legal action.

The nature of her defensiveness tells me that she knew she is in the wrong at least partially. Therefore stroke or not she knew she was doing wrong and she continued doing it. Knowing she was doing wrong and using her 'disability' as an excuse does not excuse her from her actions.

Her actions are wrong.
She defended her actions. She claimed that writing is hers. Until faced with undeniable truth she continued to maintain that Of Atlantis was her book, her writing.

I'm saying nothing about the person she might be, her actions are saying them for her. In some places lying and making empty threats isn't a bad thing I guess.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 04:48 AM
There is so much stink here it's difficult to see where the dead fish ends and the rotting skunk starts.

I tend to follow occam's razor.

I've been doing research on cons and conmen (which is misleading on the gender-side). This has all the hallmarks of a very bad con artist getting screwed by a bigger, better con artist.

Look at the woman's website. And look and the link to contact her agent. How many people here, with an agent, have said agent with an email based in the writer's domain name?

Enquiring minds ponder such things.

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 04:53 AM
Wait--just for clarification, is she threatening legal action, or is it the crazy agent lady?

benbradley
10-12-2007, 04:57 AM
I just thought up this neat little saying that applies to the situation: "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!";)

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 05:01 AM
There is so much stink here it's difficult to see where the dead fish ends and the rotting skunk starts.

I tend to follow occam's razor.

I've been doing research on cons and conmen (which is misleading on the gender-side). This has all the hallmarks of a very bad con artist getting screwed by a bigger, better con artist.

Look at the woman's website. And look and the link to contact her agent. How many people here, with an agent, have said agent with an email based in the writer's domain name?

Enquiring minds ponder such things.

huh...

I missed that.


Wait--just for clarification, is she threatening legal action, or is it the crazy agent lady?

#68 on the making light thread:
#68 ::: Lanaia (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/lanaialee.html) ::: (view all by) (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/commentlist-oneauthor.php?author=Lanaia&email=lanaia74@yahoo.com) ::: October 11, 2007, 05:59 PM (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#217878):
I am sure many people ( especially in Europe, Scotland in particular) remember Hill and Hill Literary Agency, especially for being well known for their scams. Don't beleve me check out some Scottish newspapers. You know, I think every one should just stop and take a deep breath. Yes, I am guilty of listening to the advice of Christopher Hill, but that is the only mistake I made. I went back through old files I had saved and I have irrefutable proof, he coached me and did the ghost writing. I even have the receipts where I paid him for his services. My attorny told me because of the proof I have, I did no wrong and those that we to trash my name, well just hope you don't say anything bad about my publisher or I. My attorney is threatning to sue, because for once in my life, being a pack rat paid off.
LANAIA



I thought there was another post of hers in that thread, I admit I may have misread the name.... **searching the thread**


posted 10.11.07 on entry Weirdly Similar....:

Keep em' coming, you bettter be very afraid, jane as an sdult I thought you would throughly reasearch, well you heard Victoria Strass, she knowa!
Lanaik

Now have I jumped the gun saying she was making the threats? Oh hey I can admit I made a mistake.

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 05:06 AM
#68 on the making light thread:
#68 ::: Lanaia (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/lanaialee.html) ::: (view all by) (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/commentlist-oneauthor.php?author=Lanaia&email=lanaia74@yahoo.com) ::: October 11, 2007, 05:59 PM (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#217878):
I am sure many people ( especially in Europe, Scotland in particular) remember Hill and Hill Literary Agency, especially for being well known for their scams. Don't beleve me check out some Scottish newspapers. You know, I think every one should just stop and take a deep breath. Yes, I am guilty of listening to the advice of Christopher Hill, but that is the only mistake I made. I went back through old files I had saved and I have irrefutable proof, he coached me and did the ghost writing. I even have the receipts where I paid him for his services. My attorny told me because of the proof I have, I did no wrong and those that we to trash my name, well just hope you don't say anything bad about my publisher or I. My attorney is threatning to sue, because for once in my life, being a pack rat paid off.
LANAIA
[/quote]

I thought she was talking about suing the scammers. Hence the reference to having kept all her correspondance with Hill, and how being a pack rat payed off. I could be wrong--kinda hard to tell with the way she writes. :Shrug:

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 05:09 AM
those that we to trash my name, well just hope you don't say anything bad about my publisher or I. My attorney is threatning to sue

I took it as she was threatening anyone who said negative things about her.

I am still wondering who is really writing those.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 05:09 AM
I thought she was talking about suing the scammers. Hence the reference to having kept all her correspondance with Hill, and how being a pack rat payed off. I could be wrong--kinda hard to tell with the way she writes. :Shrug:

Is that grounds to be sued? :D

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 05:22 AM
Okay--I'm a freak and couldn't figure out how to quote your quote, so I just cut and paste this one. :D


posted 10.11.07 on entry Weirdly Similar....:

Keep em' coming, you bettter be very afraid, jane as an sdult I thought you would throughly reasearch, well you heard Victoria Strass, she knowa!
Lanaik


Yowch. I think something like this speaks pretty clearly of a woman with some. . .let's say "problems". I like Witty and Ironic's last take on this. The behavior is not okay, but it's possible the woman can't be held entirely accountable for it. Here's an example--I used to work with adults with developmental disabilities. One usually mild mannered woman was in the habit of tearing off all her clothes and screaming obscenities when something pissed her off. She'd do this anywhere--the mall, Walmart, whatever. The behavior wasn't acceptable, but it wasn't something she deserved to be arrested for either. Man, I hope that makes sense, allergy medicine and Sam Adams don't always mix well. :tongue

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 05:34 AM
it is difficult to figure out how much sympathy to give. I keep swinging back and forth. I am reminded of a child. I have six so I see this behavior in my kids on a smaller less flameworthy scale.

Using ones disabilities as a defense strikes me as wrong and a sign of a cheat(IMO). My son is autistic yet when he stole from the store it was not 'but I'm aspergers' as the reason he gave it was 'but I was hungry'. Sure, the way he is he could have used that as an excuse but he didn't.

On one hand I feel bad, it is heartbreaking, $400 a month for two years to get a pile of rubbish.
On the other hand did she not proofread?
On the first hand scammers and con artists are good, they are slick thats how they do what they do
on the other hand weren't the alarms ringing in her head? uhm, no pun or disrespect intended there

I think when it all narrows down to it the culprit is all three of them; her for not doing her research and trying to gain sympathy through her 'disabilities'. Her agent for going through PA and Hall for conning her.

I can't decide if I am mad at her or not :/

Cranky
10-12-2007, 05:39 AM
it is difficult to figure out how much sympathy to give. I keep swinging back and forth. I am reminded of a child. I have six so I see this behavior in my kids on a smaller less flameworthy scale.

Using ones disabilities as a defense strikes me as wrong and a sign of a cheat(IMO). My son is autistic yet when he stole from the store it was not 'but I'm aspergers' as the reason he gave it was 'but I was hungry'. Sure, the way he is he could have used that as an excuse but he didn't.

On one hand I feel bad, it is heartbreaking, $400 a month for two years to get a pile of rubbish.
On the other hand did she not proofread?
On the first hand scammers and con artists are good, they are slick thats how they do what they do
on the other hand weren't the alarms ringing in her head? uhm, no pun or disrespect intended there

I think when it all narrows down to it the culprit is all three of them; her for not doing her research and trying to gain sympathy through her 'disabilities'. Her agent for going through PA and Hall for conning her.

I can't decide if I am mad at her or not :/

I'm on the same see-saw with you...

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 05:40 AM
Wow....freaky. lol.
Sorta of off topic... but my step son is Autistic (as he is thrilled to inform you) and I was totally thinking of him when I was posting!! He has major difficulty grasping the idea of not doing something simply because it is "not okay". But that doesn't mean that we stop teaching and showing and forcing him to accept what is and is not okay. If he were to lie or cheat or steal, he would get in big trouble. The same trouble as his un-autistic sister? Probably not.
LoL, and I totally misread and thought you wrote:
"...stole from the store it was not 'but I want asparagus"
and I ALMOST posted "He eats vegetables??? HOW do you get him to eat vegetables!! Mine has a strict no green policy that we c-a-n-n-o-t break!"

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 05:44 AM
Wow....freaky. lol.
Sorta of off topic... but my step son is Autistic (as he is thrilled to inform you) and I was totally thinking of him when I was posting!! He has major difficulty grasping the idea of not doing something simply because it is "not okay". But that doesn't mean that we stop teaching and showing and forcing him to accept what is and is not okay. If he were to lie or cheat or steal, he would get in big trouble. The same trouble as his un-autistic sister? Probably not.
LoL, and I totally misread and thought you wrote:
"...stole from the store it was not 'but I want asparagus"
and I ALMOST posted "He eats vegetables??? HOW do you get him to eat vegetables!! Mine has a strict no green policy that we c-a-n-n-o-t break!"

hehehe
he used to eat veggies, lately it is carrots only and peeled peas.
yes.
he peels his peas.

Cranky
10-12-2007, 05:50 AM
Wow....freaky. lol.
Sorta of off topic... but my step son is Autistic (as he is thrilled to inform you) and I was totally thinking of him when I was posting!! He has major difficulty grasping the idea of not doing something simply because it is "not okay". But that doesn't mean that we stop teaching and showing and forcing him to accept what is and is not okay. If he were to lie or cheat or steal, he would get in big trouble. The same trouble as his un-autistic sister? Probably not.
LoL, and I totally misread and thought you wrote:
"...stole from the store it was not 'but I want asparagus"
and I ALMOST posted "He eats vegetables??? HOW do you get him to eat vegetables!! Mine has a strict no green policy that we c-a-n-n-o-t break!"

One of my kiddos is autistic as well. Weird! LOL

Still, I would never allow him to use his disability as an excuse for wrongdoing. The consequences might vary, depending on whether or not he really understood what he was doing, though. He's pretty young, only three.

It's hard to know what's really going on with this lady. I will say there isn't much doubt about this Hill character. He sounds like a scumbag.

Bubastes
10-12-2007, 05:51 AM
And there isn't much doubt about the Cheryl Pillsbury character either. She's either a scumbag, an idiot, or both.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 05:52 AM
Freaky...are you sure we don't share a child? I don't think he would go for peas, but he eats carrots. Only Baby, and N-O-T cooked emphasis his, not mine. He just called the other day (we only have him and his sis in the summer) to inform us that he would not be visiting next summer if we again forced him to eat corn. The corn that he picked at the grocery store. To go with dinner I let him choose because I was tired of arguing....brat.

Alright...I'm done hijacking the thread. You can have it back now.

Cranky
10-12-2007, 05:53 AM
And there isn't much doubt about the Cheryl Pillsbury character either. She's either a scumbag, an idiot, or both.

I vote for both, personally.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 05:54 AM
agreed!

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 06:02 AM
. . . and N-O-T cooked emphasis his, not mine.


I am in complete agreement with your son on this matter. Cooking does strange and horrible things to carrots.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 06:07 AM
And there isn't much doubt about the Cheryl Pillsbury character either. She's either a scumbag, an idiot, or both.

didn't someone at making light mention the similarities between the scammer's misspellings and Cheryl's misspellings? perhaps they are one and the same...

Monkey
10-12-2007, 06:12 AM
Well, let's see...

what do we know of her?

1) She charges a fee for her services
2) She hooks her clients up with vanity publishers
3) She threatens people with religions that she doesn't believe in and lawyers she hasn't hired
4) She defends herself by saying that she believes in what she does, and her friends believe in her, and no one can take that away from her.
5) She mixes metaphors faster than...well, faster than something really fast :tongue
6) She can't spell simple words like remedies (remedeys) and similar (simular), much less construct a complete, intelligible sentence
7) She says her writing is "Underworld, not law".

Hmmmm...


Not Too Bright :e2seesaw: Takes advantage of the Not Too Bright



I say both.

Cranky
10-12-2007, 06:13 AM
didn't someone at making light mention the similarities between the scammer's misspellings and Cheryl's misspellings? perhaps they are one and the same...

Ah, but would it be the scammer posing as her own agent, or vice versa? I"m confused. :D

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 06:22 AM
i dunno
my sides hurt from the giggling over the comments. My eyes are hurting from reading without my glasses and I am starting to get a bit dingy.

Bottom line lesson:
research, write your own stuff, if you mess up; own up

shakeysix
10-12-2007, 06:27 AM
years ago one of my comp. students plagiarized the alien autopsy from the internet. wrote a paper on it and did not credit the website. anyway, in the little talk we had over it, i caught myself saying "son, this source is comically inept. there are much more credible sources out there to plagiarize. next time, give it some thought!" doh!

what i meant to say was that only a moron would copy something that well known. that is what i am thinking here. surely this nefarious ghost writer set her up to get even with her. on the other hand--wouldn't the diff in writing styles have clued her that something was mightily amiss? -- s6

shakeysix
10-12-2007, 06:33 AM
AND while we are on the subject of ghost writers let me add that for 400$ a month i will write a fine book for anyone. every word of it will be my own work. and it will be damn choice work too. this is the voice of genteel, well educated poverty speaking.--s6-- and i could do the damned thing in spanish for 50$ extra!

Monkey
10-12-2007, 06:53 AM
But would you take 2 years to complete it?

Monkey
10-12-2007, 07:02 AM
The more I see of all this, the more I think that Lanaia is innocent. She misspelled her own name (along with almost everything else she wrote) in one of her posts at Making Light.

I'm not sure that we can really blame her for not knowing how real publishing works, or not being bright enough to catch the people who conned her in the act.

I think she's getting so angry and defensive because she's taking a pretty bad bashing all over the net right now. Not to mention, her "agent" is out there defending her, and probably telling her all sorts of things about us big ol' meanies in cyberspace...how we are unfairly accusing her, and how she's going to get a lawyer and fix all this.


No, I think that the real problem here is the agent, Ms. Pillsbury, and the ghost writer, Mr. Hill. From what we know, Lanaia has paid the two of them a combined sum of more than $10,000, and that's before she paid the vanity publishers.

Cranky
10-12-2007, 07:37 AM
The more I see of all this, the more I think that Lanaia is innocent. She misspelled her own name (along with almost everything else she wrote) in one of her posts at Making Light.

I'm not sure that we can really blame her for not knowing how real publishing works, or not being bright enough to catch the people who conned her in the act.

I think she's getting so angry and defensive because she's taking a pretty bad bashing all over the net right now. Not to mention, her "agent" is out there defending her, and probably telling her all sorts of things about us big ol' meanies in cyberspace...how we are unfairly accusing her, and how she's going to get a lawyer and fix all this.


No, I think that the real problem here is the agent, Ms. Pillsbury, and the ghost writer, Mr. Hill. From what we know, Lanaia has paid the two of them a combined sum of more than $10,000, and that's before she paid the vanity publishers.

Ye gods! I hadn't done the math. That really hurts...the bashing on the internet must really be rubbing salt in it. Her agent isn't helping matters, either.

shakeysix
10-12-2007, 07:43 AM
i would write that book until the cows came home. or until you stopped paying me 400$ a month. but it would be my own work.

let me get this straight--400$ a month for two years? to a ghost writer? why can't she write her own stuff? i hate to sound cold (the hell i do!) but she has must have more time to devote to writing than the rest of us working stiffs. why doesn't she write her own stuff, or at least research what was done for her? how much did she expect to make from the book? does PA still figure into this? surely she would not make enough from pa's contract... i am going to bed. my head is spinning. --s6

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 07:58 AM
mmm...I still can't wholly credit it. But I cannot discredit it either.
Phrased one way: She is upset after shilling out so much money to con artists.
Phrased another: She shilled out $10,000 to publish a book that was not hers, and claim dramatically that writing is her "gift".
Maybe I am too honest with myself (HA!) but I cannot imagine how you could possibly hire someone to write for you, and then even remotely be offended and lie when you are outed as a sham. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, that she furnished a basic manuscript, she did not even take the time to read or edit it before flying to the PoD. To me, that says she was more interested in having her name on the cover, than what was between the pages. And that is where her innocence ends.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Enquiring minds also tend to wonder why someone would use a pseudonym, then add photos and a bio like that, with the wheelchairs, the dead babies, the "baby" Jack Russell, the stroke and the blood pressure?

Usually folks use a pseudonym and a vague bio to hide who they are. So is that all a lie?

Does anyone know that the whole medical history is kosher? In the above context, it sounds... curious.

On the other hand, if it is all real, why bother adding a pseudonym if anyone can look at the photo and say, "Hey, I know here, she's the woman who writes the (insert your assessment of quality) poetry, has the strange affection for the lap-dog and a sad, sad story to boot."

:e2cry: Am I gonna get cursed now, with a tenth-level spell of confundication and raging artichoke-induced-gas?

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 04:34 PM
she reminds me of some of the livejournal trolls I have seen come in and out of the lj communities. This whole thing reeks of that sort of stuff.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 05:35 PM
Am I gonna get cursed now, with a tenth-level spell of confundication and raging artichoke-induced-gas?

*poof* You are now officially hex proof....but I warn you, the effect only lasts 2 days. After that, stop antagonizing the pseudo-witches. And Jack Russell terrier owners.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 06:08 PM
*poof* You are now officially hex proof....but I warn you, the effect only lasts 2 days. After that, stop antagonizing the pseudo-witches. And Jack Russell terrier owners.

WOOHOO!

Two days to run a-monkey-mok! :D

PattiTheWicked
10-12-2007, 06:33 PM
For $400 a month I'll make sure no one hexes your Jack Russells.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 06:50 PM
Honestly, I've read the woman's poetry, and I believe *that* is all her own.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I'd say that the poetry is what she was refering to when she was saying that writing was her "gift".

RickN
10-12-2007, 07:25 PM
Innocent? She put her name on the work, claimed copyright for it, and publicly declared that the work was original and she spent 2 years writing it. She published plagarized work and then tried to conceal it with denials and threats of lawsuits.

Hill may have written most/all of the manuscript, but who's name is on the publishing contract and the copyright papers declaring that the work is original? Hers.

Uncoving the ghostwriter and scams doesn't make her less culpable, only more gullible. I hope she files suit againt the ghostwriter to recoup that $10,000 and more -- his action and her lack of due diligence have put her in a bad position.

It's a pity she paid $10,000 for a book she could have gotten at a used book store for $5.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 07:32 PM
For $400 a month I'll make sure no one hexes your Jack Russells.

I quite like it when my wife hexes my Jack Russells!

Oh...

...you didn't mean it a slightly risqué euphemistic manner, did you. :o

Bubastes
10-12-2007, 07:45 PM
I'm still wondering whether she was scammed or whether she knew exactly what she was doing. When I Googled "Roval Publishing" and "Atlantis," I found some posts she made (I guess for publicity?) and an interview about her upcoming book. She said it was the first in a five book series? What a coincidence, Gemmell's book was the first in a five book series too.

ETA: I found this short news piece too.
http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070919/NRSTAFF/709190301/-1/news1803

Soccer Mom
10-12-2007, 08:59 PM
Here is the link in B&BC-- Here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80354).

Monkey
10-12-2007, 09:04 PM
Supposing her innocence relies on several IF's:

**IF Mr. Hill really did scam her (which I tend to believe)
and
**IF he wrote her saying that she could have the work, and that the copyright was now hers
and
**IF she believed (and we know that she was gullible) that that meant that for all intents and purposes, the work was hers, she owned the copyright, and no one else could claim it

THEN the statements she made could be seen as misguided rather than outright lying. Her defensive posture could well be because of a combination of panic, shame, and bad advice coming from people like her "agent".

Soccer Mom
10-12-2007, 09:09 PM
Do we really have anything to base her claim of Hill's involvement on?

He's never been known to pull ghostwriting as one of his scams. I'd very much like to know if she had contact with him herself or if all this contact came through her "agent."

Monkey
10-12-2007, 09:14 PM
After reading MeowGirl's link:

Does it bug anyone else that Lanaia/Mary takes every chance to credit God for her writing?

Her agent threatens people with Wicca, then admits that she's not Wiccan. Lanaia says she was raised by a dark witch, then credits God (seemingly, the Christian one) every chance she gets. Odd, especially since her poetry seems to deal almost exclusively with the occult, and her novel is plagiarized.

Everyone tied to this thing is starting to smell sorta fishy.

Soccer Mom
10-12-2007, 09:15 PM
This smells bad from top to bottom.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 09:15 PM
Do we really have anything to base her claim of Hill's involvement on?



http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html


It's in the Bewares board, too.

wee
10-12-2007, 09:17 PM
There are a few things I don't understand ...

Such as why you would pay someone nearly $10k and never even bother to Google their name or anything. Have you also purchased part of the London Bridge, or oceanfront property in Idaho?

And the more of this I read, the more I wonder what Pillsbury's connection is to C. Hill. Honestly. Are they the same person? Cheryl/Christopher. Or were they working together? If Cheryl is worth two cents, why didn't she know about the C. Hill connection with her client ... and if she is even remotely connected to publishing, why hadn't she heard of him & warned her client? Even if, for no other reason, to keep all income diverted directly to herself?

Yeah, it stinks. For a myriad of reasons.


wee

DamaNegra
10-12-2007, 09:17 PM
Do we really have anything to base her claim of Hill's involvement on?

He's never been known to pull ghostwriting as one of his scams. I'd very much like to know if she had contact with him herself or if all this contact came through her "agent."

Read Victoria's blog post on Writers Beware.That clears up some things.

Tish Davidson
10-12-2007, 09:33 PM
Enquiring minds also tend to wonder why someone would use a pseudonym, then add photos and a bio like that, with the wheelchairs, the dead babies, the "baby" Jack Russell, the stroke and the blood pressure?

Usually folks use a pseudonym and a vague bio to hide who they are. So is that all a lie?

Does anyone know that the whole medical history is kosher? In the above context, it sounds... curious.

On the other hand, if it is all real, why bother adding a pseudonym if anyone can look at the photo and say, "Hey, I know here, she's the woman who writes the (insert your assessment of quality) poetry, has the strange affection for the lap-dog and a sad, sad story to boot."

:e2cry: Am I gonna get cursed now, with a tenth-level spell of confundication and raging artichoke-induced-gas?


I read the bio and thought too much, too much. I know some people have horrible problems and terrible lives, but her tragedies just keep piling on - 6 dead children along with everything else! And, as the above poster said, why the pseudonym, especially if you have paid someone to write a book with your name on it, and if you give detailed biographical information. To me, it raises the question of who this person really is.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 09:44 PM
The "six dead children" thing is explained easily enough; her health problems have caused six miscarriages. That's sad, but it seems an inappropriate thing to but in an author bio.

And having had both miscarriages and children, I feel that the distinction is pretty important.

Uncarved
10-12-2007, 09:48 PM
ok on this website of Lee's http://www.screams-of-terror.com/lanaia_lee/lee.asp
there is a contact her agent link that goes to here: bmcdonald@screams-of-terror.com
which surfaces this myspace page: blog.myspace.com/screamsofterrormagazine

so is this Barry guy her agent as she says on the SOT website, or Pilsbury that she says on her other site? She needs to find a story and stick to a story, cause this one just is too weird.

DamaNegra
10-12-2007, 09:48 PM
I read the bio and thought too much, too much. I know some people have horrible problems and terrible lives, but her tragedies just keep piling on - 6 dead children along with everything else! And, as the above poster said, why the pseudonym, especially if you have paid someone to write a book with your name on it, and if you give detailed biographical information. To me, it raises the question of who this person really is.

Hmmm maybe she likes the pseudonym better than her name? If I found a pseydonym I liked better than my name, I'd be happy to have people recognize me by my pseudonym rather than my name. Just a thought.

WittyandorIronic
10-12-2007, 09:52 PM
So...a little OT, but I was intrigued by the whole Janet Dailey/Nora Roberts references, as I had never heard them before. I read the link that someone (sry, can't remember which post, but thx!) posted, and then I googled it. This is an example of what was in question:

Janet Dailey Notorious
Published 1996
His mouth feathered over a corner of her lips as his hands slid onto her back. Eden turned her head so that his mouth brushed her cheek gently. Need rolled inside her, with a pang that came as much from fear as desire.

Nora Roberts Sweet Revenge
published 1989
His breath feathered over her lips as his hand slid through the water and over her skin. When he leaned toward her, she turned her head so that his mouth brushed her cheek gently, patiently. Need rolled inside of her, with a pang that came as much from fear as from desire.

Now....not only am I shocked and bothered (some years after the fact, lol) but...I am really confused. See, to me, if I were to plagiarize I would not copy someones work and then make it worse! Janets version is lacking in the depth and emotion that Nora so embodies. I mean...wouldn't you make it better if you were going to change it? You didn't have to put forth the effort to come up with the ideas or prose, the phrasing is already complete and even edited, so wouldn't you try to make it MORE? I don't know if that makes sense, but in my own writing I often obsess over a particular section or sentence, and I eventually have to leave it alone because I know I am at the end of my ability. But...if I were to take Nora Roberts work, a scene that she had worked and worked and worked to the end of her (outrageous) ability...wouldn't you then devote all that energy and your own ability into improving it? And if you couldn't, wouldn't you just leave it alone??
It just struck me as really odd that she stole prose, and then ruined it.

And just because I feel dirty leaving the phrase "if I were to plagiarize," I find the entire concept repugnant.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Hmmm maybe she likes the pseudonym better than her name? If I found a pseydonym I liked better than my name, I'd be happy to have people recognize me by my pseudonym rather than my name. Just a thought.

But would then plaster your picture all over with that name and give (if we are to allow the benefit of doubt) your actual life story to go with it?

And wouldn't you be able to spell your newly chosen name pretty consistently?

Just asking.

Soccer Mom
10-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Okay, so they is evidence of Hill's slimy fingerprints that surfaced before the discovery of plagarism.

This whole thing is very incestuous. I noticed the stuff about McDonald. Now I'm curious as to the relationship between McDonald and Pillsbury (and whether this is one person using various food-business pseudonyms).



ETA: I wonder if this (http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Barry_McDonald) is the same Barry McDonald or not. He writes articles on:
"Free Report Reveals: "How To Make At Least $1000 a Week Online Without a Website or a Product of Your Own!" Visit http://www.barryjmcdonald.com to get yours."
FYI: This is the end of one of his E-publishing articles...
Never use copyrighted materials such as photos and articles. This is outright plagiarism, you may get into a lot of trouble for this. You can lose your business and get sued over copyright infringement. If you do not have the time to write your own articles, there are many willing and able professional article writers that can do it for you for a reasonable fee. All your investment in writing and publishing articles will be well worth it when you see your list build up and your traffic increasing.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 10:24 PM
The "six dead children" thing is explained easily enough; her health problems have caused six miscarriages. That's sad, but it seems an inappropriate thing to but in an author bio.

And having had both miscarriages and children, I feel that the distinction is pretty important.

It is. But having been through three of each, with the three that didn't work out, I wouldn't use it as a sales pitch. It's a deeply personal and upsetting time and experience. Not something I'd use to hawk my wares.

And of the three that worked out delightfully, my wife had hypertension and gestational diabetes (the former caused by the latter, so I probably should have arranged them the other way around), we had doctors who were constantly monitoring things, making sure the levels were OK, putting my wife on a specific diet, and if things looked like they would go beyond that, they had discussed medication we could use safely that would help.

Of course, nothing is certain, but with the other things that just smell fishy, are we talking REAL miscarriages, or are we talking, "I'm late. I'm preggers. Oh here come the painters, I guess I lost the baby"?

Or is the entire thing bunk?

'Cos if it IS kosher, she really needs to reconsider her spirituallity, 'cos the big guy upstairs is doing bugger all for her, and the Earth Mother (is that right, I'm a bit rusty on Wicca) seems to be on the phone and taking no calls from her at the moment.

DamaNegra
10-12-2007, 10:26 PM
But would then plaster your picture all over with that name and give (if we are to allow the benefit of doubt) your actual life story to go with it?

And wouldn't you be able to spell your newly chosen name pretty consistently?

Just asking.

I don't think I really made myself clear. If I found a name that I liked better than the one my parents gave me, I'd love if people actually thought that was my name. And yes, that includes having people associate that name with my picture and bio.

And I think that this particular lady has shown to have clear typing problems, so I wouldn't think too much into the not being able to spell her name.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 10:34 PM
Yes, miscarriages are terrible, painful experiences. But when I think back on that pain, though it was intense, it's nothing compared to the anguish I felt when I just *thought* I was losing my 3-year-old.

Either way, these aren't selling points for her books. They aren't something to cash in on. She seems to be reaching for the inspirational Oh-my-life-is-so-sad-but-look-what-I-can-do-despite-it-all tactic. It's sad, alright.

Soccer Mom
10-12-2007, 10:35 PM
Focusing on the "agent" for a moment. Here is her website (http://www.foreverknight.5u.com/) (forgive me if this has been linked elsewhere, I looked and didn't see it. She lists some of her information and has the link to her "publishing" business.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 10:48 PM
I don't think I really made myself clear. If I found a name that I liked better than the one my parents gave me, I'd love if people actually thought that was my name. And yes, that includes having people associate that name with my picture and bio.

Ah, I understand you now. My culpa!

However, if you changed your name to Strawberry Shortcake-Delight 'cos you liked that better for the above reasons, would you then go around posting that you were "Dama Negra, writing under the name Strawberry Shortcake-Delight"?

Yeah, I did silly names, but this is basically what she did.

Changing your name is one thing. Writing under a pseudonym to protect your identity; privacy; writing in another genre; or to simply get more books out a year without flooding the market with your books (which I believe is why Stephen King used a pseudonym, but don't quote me), is another thing. But creating a pseudonym and then telling everyone what your pseudonym is, just seems strange, convoluted, and in this case, adds even more smoke to the situation.

And I'm not trying to have a dig at you, DN. Just pointing out the things that leave me with questions that I can't rationally see an answer for. As I said earlier in the thread, I've ben researching conartists, and this has all the hallmarks of that kind of situation.

Even if she is the victim of Hall, she was stupid, lazy and when faced with the option of cutting her loses, she instead chose to try and recoup them by committing further, if not illegal, certainly immoral acts of her own. Add in the questionable agent(s); the overly emotionally manipulative bio; the circles in circles of connections and characters involved; the jumping between angry figure of retribution (both legal and magical) and the poor disabled victim (stupidity and greed are not technically classed as disabilities, however much you might be screwed by them), all leave me seriously stretching to see her as something other than a shady character herself.

So if she is a complete victim here, she has done nothing to aid her own cause. But I personally doubt, given the above, that this is the case.

Oh, and one last thing. We all make typos. So maybe I was unfair there. But some of her posts in various locations show questionable understanding of English as a written language. Now again, were I to believe that the whole stroke thing was on the up and up, I could see how this might cause dubious writing. However, if that's the case, how can she write other stuff and even attempt a novel that she planned to pass off as her own.

Just too many unresolved and muddied elements in this for me.

Monkey
10-12-2007, 10:50 PM
From the agent's website:

I graduated from Billerica Memorial High School in 1978, Middlesex Community College in 1990. I received an Associates Degree in Electronics. Vampires and demons have always been my passion since I was about eight years old. I continue to study and learn something new everyday. And now, I write stories and work from home and caring for daughter and her medical needs. Someday I wish to be published and share all of my adventures with everyone who enjoys this world, and the underworld.
(bolding mine)

Funny, Lanaia's mother died and she moved in with her grandmother, a "self-professed dark witch", when she was 8.

And this agent has the same habit of disclosing too much (and very sad) personal info that Lanaia does.


This is just a thought...a soap opera thought, really, but it could be true...what if "Lanaia" is a fictional character that is really a sort of collaboration between Mary and Ms. Pillsbury?

ETA: "Someday I wish to be published"? She has stated several places now that she is "published in her own right". In fact, she's been published (I think) a total of 4 times, two of which were by PA. Maybe she realizes that these aren't legit credits?

Celia Cyanide
10-12-2007, 10:59 PM
ok on this website of Lee's http://www.screams-of-terror.com/lanaia_lee/lee.asp
there is a contact her agent link that goes to here: bmcdonald@screams-of-terror.com
which surfaces this myspace page: blog.myspace.com/screamsofterrormagazine

so is this Barry guy her agent as she says on the SOT website, or Pilsbury that she says on her other site? She needs to find a story and stick to a story, cause this one just is too weird.

I am familiar with this website, because it's a horror site. It used to be pretty active, but hasn't been updated in a while. I think anyone can contribute to it. As for that agent's email, that email address is the same one they have listed for contacting the site to contribute content. I wonder if that email address ended up in that link by mistake?

The whole thing is strange. I can't decide between being pissed off and feeling sorry for her. But I'm leaning towards feeling very sorry for her.

Is it possible that a well-meaning friend or relative hired the ghost writer? Maybe they thought it would do no hard to self publish it, and have her name on it. She just seems very confused.

necia phoenix
10-12-2007, 11:04 PM
that would make a very interesting novel, you know? perhaps we ought to use it as a writing prompt to prepare for nano:

Vanity author decides to create disabled character to be 'author' of a legit novel..

or if you know some programming perhaps someone could do a writing game filled with the thrills and chills of risky writing contracts and scammers, the excitement of juggling family and jobs and writing and the joy of waiting six months for that first rejection... and maybe you could do it in real time too..

Ok I'll stop.

aliajohnson
10-12-2007, 11:10 PM
Wordmonkey--

The reasons for using a pen name are plentiful--though I wouldn't be surprised to find "Lanaia" did simply because it seemed dramatic.

I considered using a pen name. Not because I don't like my name, or have any desire to hide my identity, but because I thought Julia Quinn was clever to pick the last name "Quinn" so she could be shelved next to Amanda Quick. Worked for her. :D

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 11:19 PM
Wordmonkey--
The reasons for using a pen name are plentiful--though I wouldn't be surprised to find "Lanaia" did simply because it seemed dramatic.


Yeah, I know. Just seems to be something fishy here in this situation - linked with all the other stuff.

I could be way off the mark. And like I said, lots of reasons to do it.

....but with all the other shenanigans?

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 11:22 PM
I considered using a pen name. Not because I don't like my name, or have any desire to hide my identity, but because I thought Julia Quinn was clever to pick the last name "Quinn" so she could be shelved next to Amanda Quick. Worked for her. :D

Shoulda included this above.

Wouldn't it be better to go with Amanda Aardvark? Then you'd be first on the shelf instead of right next to direct competition?

OK, maybe I shoulda stayed with my first inclination and not included this. ;)

scarletpeaches
10-12-2007, 11:23 PM
No A-names. They'll be at the top, above eye level. You want a B-name.

wordmonkey
10-12-2007, 11:34 PM
No A-names. They'll be at the top, above eye level. You want a B-name.

OK. Good thinking.

Amanda Baardvark.

'Course, if you're then next to Amanda Baal, you'll be screwed. Not least of which because I hear her fans are pretty rabid. Raise idols to her and everything!

AnneMarble
10-13-2007, 07:03 PM
The more I read about this, the more I lean to the theory I read somewhere last night (probably on the Writer Beware blog). I don't want to lean that way -- I want to be angry with Lanaia for the plagiarism. But is it possible she thought what that scam artist agent did is typical of publishing?

After all, people who haven't researched publishing don't know that they shouldn't pay fees to agents, to publishers, etc. They don't know that in the vast majority of cases, writers shouldn't hire book doctors. They may have read about agents or editors who edit and even rewrite books for their clients. They may have even read articles (or books) that insist you need a book doctor and insist that most writers do it that way. So maybe she thought this was OK, like hiring a book doctor. Sure, it's weird to think that's what writing is like, but isn't it weird when other scam victims seem to think that Stephen King pays his publisher?

The major problem I see with her behavior is that once the plagiarism was revealed, she didn't do enough right away to clean up the mess and apologize. Much of the mess could have been averted if she and her agent (especially her agent!) had reacted better.

scarletpeaches
10-13-2007, 07:07 PM
OK. Good thinking.

Amanda Baardvark.

'Course, if you're then next to Amanda Baal, you'll be screwed. Not least of which because I hear her fans are pretty rabid. Raise idols to her and everything!

I like Amanda Huggankisse.

wordmonkey
10-13-2007, 07:12 PM
I like Amanda Huggankisse.

Yeah, but we're talking about pen names, not your personal preferences. ;)

jamiehall
10-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Wait--just for clarification, is she threatening legal action, or is it the crazy agent lady?

To me, it sounds like the threats of that sort - most if not all - are coming from the agent. It is unfair to hold Mary/Lanaia responsible for everything Cheryl says, and I've noticed that people have been kind of blending these statements together as if the author is responsible for all of them. Mary/Lanaia has enough to worry about without being abused for Cheryl's statements too.

jamiehall
10-13-2007, 09:29 PM
#68 on the making light thread:
#68 ::: Lanaia (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/lanaialee.html) ::: (view all by) (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/commentlist-oneauthor.php?author=Lanaia&email=lanaia74@yahoo.com) ::: October 11, 2007, 05:59 PM (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#217878):
I am sure many people ( especially in Europe, Scotland in particular) remember Hill and Hill Literary Agency, especially for being well known for their scams. Don't beleve me check out some Scottish newspapers. You know, I think every one should just stop and take a deep breath. Yes, I am guilty of listening to the advice of Christopher Hill, but that is the only mistake I made. I went back through old files I had saved and I have irrefutable proof, he coached me and did the ghost writing. I even have the receipts where I paid him for his services. My attorny told me because of the proof I have, I did no wrong and those that we to trash my name, well just hope you don't say anything bad about my publisher or I. My attorney is threatning to sue, because for once in my life, being a pack rat paid off.
LANAIA


I thought she was talking about suing the scammers. Hence the reference to having kept all her correspondance with Hill, and how being a pack rat payed off. I could be wrong--kinda hard to tell with the way she writes. :Shrug:

I also took this as talking about suing Hill. Which she has every right to, and we should be encouraging her to do so.

jamiehall
10-13-2007, 10:03 PM
mmm...I still can't wholly credit it. But I cannot discredit it either.
Phrased one way: She is upset after shilling out so much money to con artists.
Phrased another: She shilled out $10,000 to publish a book that was not hers, and claim dramatically that writing is her "gift".
Maybe I am too honest with myself (HA!) but I cannot imagine how you could possibly hire someone to write for you, and then even remotely be offended and lie when you are outed as a sham. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, that she furnished a basic manuscript, she did not even take the time to read or edit it before flying to the PoD. To me, that says she was more interested in having her name on the cover, than what was between the pages. And that is where her innocence ends.

According to Victoria's information here (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html), only the first chapter was plagiarized. We can't expect Mary/Lanaia to know about the plagiarizing unless she had read David Gemmell. Plus, ghostwriting (when it isn't plagiarized) does indeed give the copyright to the "author" not the writer, so she honestly thought she was telling the truth when she said the copyright was hers.

Slick scam agents can easily convince their clients that massive amounts of paid editing are needed, so how much of a stretch is it to believe that a scam agent could convince someone that ghostwriting would be needed too? And, Mary/Lanaia quickly owned up to the entire situation, not immediately, no, but quickly. I think the situation IS quite bad, but I've been saddened by the amount of abuse I've seen heaped on Mary/Lanaia, when Cheryl Pillsbury and Christopher Hill should be receiving a much larger share.

I also don't think that we can assume that Mary/Lanaia didn't read her own book before trying to publish it. She had two scam agents telling her it was ready. Someone caught in a net like that wouldn't necessarily want to change a thing. Why should she try to smooth out the problems when Cheryl told her the novel was wonderful as-is? I've seen enough of that kind of behavior in other scam victims for it to not surprise me to see it again here.

jamiehall
10-13-2007, 10:15 PM
And, as the above poster said, why the pseudonym, especially if you have paid someone to write a book with your name on it, and if you give detailed biographical information. To me, it raises the question of who this person really is.

Pen names are quite frequently used for reasons other than to hide your real identity. For example, people can actually spell and remember "Jamie Hall" while, with my real name, they seldom can. There are many reasons to choose a pseudonym and the fact that she was not trying to hide her real identity does not, in my mind, make her more suspicious, but rather the opposite.

agatha
10-13-2007, 11:13 PM
According to Victoria's information here (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html), only the first chapter was plagiarized. We can't expect Mary/Lanaia to know about the plagiarizing unless she had read David Gemmell. Plus, ghostwriting (when it isn't plagiarized) does indeed give the copyright to the "author" not the writer, so she honestly thought she was telling the truth when she said the copyright was hers.


Just curious - since she's said that she has the copyright - do we know if she registered the copyright in her name? Does Roval provide such services?

Monkey
10-13-2007, 11:25 PM
I don't know about the copyright issue.

As to the rest of it, general concensus seems to be that Mr. Hill and Ms. Pillsbury took advantage of Lanaia, then Ms. Pillsbury made an even bigger deal out of the whole thing by leveling threats of lawsuits and witchcraft. She made such a laughable jerk of herself that everyone wanted to jump in, and so the mess spread like wildfire.

Whatever reasons the author had for using the pseudonym "Lanaia", I'm glad that she did it. She got scammed, then got bashed mightily over it all. Now, if she has sense, she'll drop the scammers, take down the text in question, pick a new pseudonym, and go back to doing her own poetry.

agatha
10-13-2007, 11:31 PM
Yeah, but she's also posted her real name in a bunch of places (including her e-mail address, real address, and I think also her phone number).

WittyandorIronic
10-13-2007, 11:42 PM
I stated my sympathy opinion earlier on. That being said, I would like to point out that this isn't a woman who hired a ghost writer in the normal routine of life. I'm not entirely familiar with all the reasons to hire a ghost writer, but the only ones that spring to mind is if you are famous, or writing an autobiography. This was neither. Even if she was completely innocent of plagiaristic forethought, she wanted someone else to write a story for her to put her name on. She didn't hire a scribe type person to clean up any disability laden typing issues, she hired someone to write a book, and then marketed as her own. It severely diminishes her credibility. Innocent people don't try to scam other people for vanities sake, or any other reason.
Beyond even that, her pseudonym still doesn't add up. It isn't easier to write or pronounce or even remember. It doesn't bump her shelf position, and it doesn't protect her identity. As her poetry is not well known (to my knowledge) or published beyond vanity PODers, she has poetry in her novel, and it is listed on her website, it doesn't differentiate between her work. I agree that she got scammed...I just don't believe that makes her innocent.

KTC
10-14-2007, 01:30 AM
okay. i just deleted my 5 rants i posted here. i have to back away. this has made me too angry. anybody in this thread that has defended this woman or felt sorry for her...give your head a shake. I'm out of here.

jamiehall
10-14-2007, 08:47 AM
I stated my sympathy opinion earlier on. That being said, I would like to point out that this isn't a woman who hired a ghost writer in the normal routine of life. I'm not entirely familiar with all the reasons to hire a ghost writer, but the only ones that spring to mind is if you are famous, or writing an autobiography. This was neither. Even if she was completely innocent of plagiaristic forethought, she wanted someone else to write a story for her to put her name on.

I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that most ghostwriting is neither "by" famous people, nor autobiographies. Don't book packagers do a lot of working with ghostwriters? And don't a lot of scholarly books get written that way, when Professor so-and-so has too many projects and needs extra writers to fill in the outlines, after which the final books go back to the professor and get approved?

Also, we have no idea whether using a ghostwriter was her idea, or Hill's idea. If it was her idea originally, that would put her in a more guilty light. But if Hill talked her into it, then in my mind it is just one more scammy service that a less-than-prepared author was pressured into. Scammers can make it sound like outlandish practices are the standard in the publishing industry. If Hill made it sound like she should hire a ghostwriter or she would probably never get a published book, then she may have been desperate enough to take the bait, despite the obvious conflict-of-interest issue in an agent offering himself as the ghostwriter.

JulieB
10-14-2007, 11:14 AM
You name it - it can be ghosted.

Sunkissed27f
10-14-2007, 12:16 PM
This kills me...really it does.

I am in fits of laughter.

To think she answers emails saying it was truly hers, she has the manuscript, two witnesses, and 2 years on this "book" of hers, and she would never be that dishonest.

Then on sentence 8 you clearly see where she forgets to change the name in her Prologue.......sigh.........people crack me up!!
To top it off...her website still has it up...for every one who hasn't seen it...to see it now.

agatha
10-14-2007, 04:41 PM
I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that most ghostwriting is neither "by" famous people, nor autobiographies. Don't book packagers do a lot of working with ghostwriters? And don't a lot of scholarly books get written that way, when Professor so-and-so has too many projects and needs extra writers to fill in the outlines, after which the final books go back to the professor and get approved?



Can anyone give more specific information about fiction books that were ghostwritten - names, titles etc. - apart from the Nancy Drew books and V.C. Andrews? And how common is it for first-time fiction authors to hire a ghostwriter?

AnneMarble
10-14-2007, 06:09 PM
Can anyone give more specific information of fiction books that were ghostwritten - names, titles etc. - apart from the Nancy Drew books and V.C. Andrews?
The most recent Robert Ludlum books are ghostwritten because Ludlum is dead. Also, those men's adventure series are ghostwritten. (In many cases, the "author" never existed, but I'd still consider that ghostwriting as many authors are writing under that name.) Many children's and young adult novel series are ghostwritten -- few authors can keep up the volume. Another example I snagged from Wikipedia was the very first Star Wars novel, which says it was written by George Lucas -- but was actually written by Alan Dean Foster (IIRC). Along those lines, you have the Star Trek novels written by William Shatner -- those are ghostwritten. Otherwise... everyone... would ... talk ... like... THIS. :D

You also have novels written by a big name author and an unknown author (such as some of the recent James Patterson books and some of the later Tom Clancy books). Sometimes, those are real collaborations. But in many cases, the big name author only writes the outline (if that), and the unknown author does the actual writing. I'd consider that a form of ghostwriting, or at least darn close. Maybe apparation writing. :)

There have also been cases of established novelists hiring ghostwriters because they couldn't keep up with the demands of a contract. Ironically, one of these blew up into a plagiarism scandal because the ghostwriter ripped off a novel rather than writing a new book.

I'm not as familiar with nonfiction ghostwriters, but I've heard that diet books written by M.D.s are often ghostwritten because the M.D. couldn't write well.


And how common is it for first-time fiction authors to hire a ghostwriter?
I think that only happens if the first-time fiction writer is a celebrity trying to publish a novel. Otherwise, it's not worth the trouble and expense.

WittyandorIronic
10-14-2007, 06:14 PM
Thx anne-marbel, that's the point I was trying to make. There may be 50 great reasons for ghost writers, but not for first time fiction writers.

wordmonkey
10-14-2007, 06:22 PM
Also, we have no idea whether using a ghostwriter was her idea, or Hill's idea. If it was her idea originally, that would put her in a more guilty light. But if Hill talked her into it, then in my mind it is just one more scammy service that a less-than-prepared author was pressured into.

Agent: Hey there Writer, how you doing?
Writer: Oh Hi! I was just thinking of calling you and seeing how things are going.
Agent: Not so good I'm afraid. I've been working this book like there is no tomorrow and I'm just getting no takers.
Writer: Oh? That's disappointing.
Agent: Don't worry. I still believe in this book, but it's clear we have some work to do. The feedback I'm getting suggests we have some problems that are coming up again and again. It's frustrating and disappoint to be where we are, but we've got some positives from this.
Writer: So what do you suggest?

And here is where, to my mind, the true character of the writer comes through. Because if you write and you get:

Agent: I suggest that we get a ghost writer...

That sentence doesn't end before you say:

Writer: No, no. I'm the writer, this is MY book, I'll fix it.

But in truth, wouldn't a kosher editor, who believes in the book/writer really say:

Agent: I suggest we go through the problem areas that I've been given as feedback and see what changes we can make. I know an editor we can work with. Let's take this and move forward.

shakeysix
10-14-2007, 06:23 PM
yeah--the expense is what is bothering me. i do feel sorry for the lady--and she seems to want sympathy according to her bio. but the money paid out thing chaps my shapely hiney. am i the only one to pick up a nuance of financial need in her situation? at least as she painted it? kind of "buy my book because my life is screwed"--s6

agatha
10-14-2007, 06:34 PM
Well, if she paid Hill from sometime in the fall of 2006 until May of 2007 for ghostwriting services, then it adds up to something between $3,000 to $4,000. That's quite a lot, and yes, I also thought that her website conveyed a sense of financial need.

AnneMarble
10-14-2007, 08:18 PM
Thx anne-marbel, that's the point I was trying to make. There may be 50 great reasons for ghost writers, but not for first time fiction writers.
The vast majority of aspiring novelists wouldn't even consider it. They want to publish their book, not someone else's. This is the sort of thing that labels an author as someone who wants to play the published author roleplaying game.


Well, if she paid Hill from sometime in the fall of 2006 until May of 2007 for ghostwriting services, then it adds up to something between $3,000 to $4,000. That's quite a lot, and yes, I also thought that her website conveyed a sense of financial need.
It doesn't make sense. The whole thing makes little sense. But people who have little money will spend ridiculous sums on writing scams. On NEPAT, I've heard of PA authors who have trouble making the rent yet who buy boxes and boxes of their own books, hire publicists, etc. All for a dream that soon becomes a nightmare.

Marian Perera
10-14-2007, 08:28 PM
The vast majority of aspiring novelists wouldn't even consider it. They want to publish their book, not someone else's. This is the sort of thing that labels an author as someone who wants to play the published author roleplaying game.

Exactly. Going with a ghostwriter means to me that you want to be published more than you want to write. I love writing, and even if I was never published, I'd still have all these stories to tell.

It reminds me of something I read in The Fountainhead. Peter Keating asks Howard Roark to design a building and allow Keating to put his name to the blueprints, and Roark agrees, provided that the building will be built exactly as he designs it. Keating wonders what Roark is getting out of the deal, since Keating will receive the money and the praise. Roark says something like, "You'll get whatever society can give a man. I'll get what no one can give a man, except himself. I will have designed that building."

WittyandorIronic
10-14-2007, 08:31 PM
Great quote, and very apt I think. Nice one Queen

Dawno
10-15-2007, 03:54 AM
FYI: a message Lanaia sent to her Yahoo Group today (emphasis mine)
link found on a comment on Making Light
(http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#218794)


Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: [lanaia] from Lanaia

I need your help, read the page I sent you, you know me would you go to
the yell box on my website and Making Light: Weirdly Similar....post
som ething positive. I really need this, to show me some one has faith
in me

Thanks and hugs,
Mary
http://www.alongstoryshort.net/lanaialee.html my site
These are lies, I did nothing wrong, these nuts are ruining my name

Monkey
10-15-2007, 04:10 AM
Aw, man.

You know, it's really sad. We know that Christopher Hill is a scam artist, and that he actually wrote the plagarized bit. We know that Cheryl Pillsbury is a scam agent, and she's up to her eyebrows in all this, too. We know that Lanaia has paid these two some pretty hefty money. All this points to poor Lanaia being a victim of multiple scams and not actually a plagiarist herself.

On the other hand, here she is, still running her mouth when all she really had to do was shut up. Here she is (as of Oct 14th, 7:09 pm) STILL claiming "Of Atlantis" is her own, and SHE STILL HAS THAT DERN EXCERPT UP.

She's making herself mightily hard to defend.

I'm beginning to feel like a sucka for even trying.

wordmonkey
10-15-2007, 07:47 AM
You know, it's really sad. We know that Christopher Hill is a scam artist, and that he actually wrote the plagarized bit. We know that Cheryl Pillsbury is a scam agent, and she's up to her eyebrows in all this, too. We know that Lanaia has paid these two some pretty hefty money. All this points to poor Lanaia being a victim of multiple scams and not actually a plagiarist herself.

Er... how do we know these things?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to make sense of this. But I don't know that she actually paid one red cent to anyone. I don't even know that Mary/Lanaia/Cheryl aren't all one and the same. Does anyone actually know, beyond giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

I say again, not trying to pick a fight (especially with a fellow simian), but it seems there are a lot of assumptions floating around here and by legal terms, most seems to be hearsay. Just trying to get my head around the facts here.

JulieB
10-15-2007, 08:02 AM
Er... how do we know these things?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to make sense of this. But I don't know that she actually paid one red cent to anyone. I don't even know that Mary/Lanaia/Cheryl aren't all one and the same. Does anyone actually know, beyond giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

I say again, not trying to pick a fight (especially with a fellow simian), but it seems there are a lot of assumptions floating around here and by legal terms, most seems to be hearsay. Just trying to get my head around the facts here.

Check out Victoria's blog post (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html) in which she answers several of those questions.

wordmonkey
10-15-2007, 03:41 PM
Check out Victoria's blog post (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html) in which she answers several of those questions.

Well that tells me what Victoria believes. And granted, she could have seen some proof of some of the things, but it doesn't tally up with the all the things that sems to have been concluded. For example, within the WB entry, there is no mention to the curse-wielding "agent."

Again, I'm just trying to distill what facts I can from the suppositions.

Having given this some thought, I actually find it kinda sad that regardless of the details involved here, this has caused friction within this community. Not that friction here is an unknown, but given the nature of the origin, seems to be the thing that should unite, rather than fracture.

Oh, and I meant no disrespect to Victoria. Clearly she's doing what she's doing to try and catch scumbags like the Hill-parasite.

KTC
10-15-2007, 03:49 PM
For the love of GOD, let this thread die. The woman is clearly a moron...an evil moron. You gave her her moment in the spotlight...let her die now.

wordmonkey
10-15-2007, 07:07 PM
For the love of GOD, let this thread die. The woman is clearly a moron...an evil moron. You gave her her moment in the spotlight...let her die now.

So sayeth KTC.

Sorry. Had to. :D

AnneMarble
10-15-2007, 07:40 PM
But it's the gift that keeps giving. :) Just when you think it will all be over, something else pops up. Like a Whack-a-Mole game. (Or is that Whack-a-Sockpuppet?)

And apparently, The Plagiarist Who Shall Not Be Named (TPWSNBN) (there, does that make you feel better) posted "These are lies, I did nothing wrong, these nuts are ruining my name" in her YahooGroup. Hmmmmm.
:idea:

She (TPWSNBN) reminds me of some people I know who say one thing on one board ("Oh, you're right, I'm sorry") and then go to another board and say another thing (either "Those evil nuts are smearing my name!" or "Those suckers!)

On the plus side, a lot of people who hadn't heard of David Gemmell might want to read his books now. (Someone on DearAuthor mentioned they bought one of his books after hearing about this.) And the Gemmell fans came across really well on the unofficial David Gemmell fan board I read last night. Kudos to the David Gemmell fans.
:Thumbs:

Name of person hurt post by this:
David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell David Gemmell

Name of plagiarist: Uhm, I forget. Starts with an L or something.

There, is that better?

necia phoenix
10-15-2007, 08:10 PM
I have never read his work. I was considering going out and getting a couple of his books from the library thanks to this. I think his book sales will shoot up.

her name?

I can't remember! :Shrug:

AnneMarble
10-15-2007, 08:13 PM
I've heard really good things about his book Legend. :)

Someone on Making Light considered calling her "Destroyer of Words" because she confessed to naming herself after a villainess on Stargate who was Destroyer of Worlds or Destroyer of Planets or something.
:ROFL:

brianm
10-15-2007, 08:30 PM
It seems she feels all the commotion is a benefit and that it will eventually make the rewritten work a best seller. Sad.

After reading her post this morning (#521 ::: Lanaia ::: (view all by) ::: October 15, 2007, 05:09 AM ) on makinglight…

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#009448

… it appears Hill worked on more chapters than was originally claimed. The offending chapter remains on display on the following sites. It will be interesting to see when they are finally removed.

http://www.alongstoryshort.net/LanaiaLee.html

http://www.poetstageforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2465&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=f396c412181ed748a2a54651f697129e

http://www.poetsandstorytellers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2785

http://forums.gotblack.com/viewthread.php?tid=21640&page=1#pid294879

http://sick66.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~3409.asp

http://creativeconsciousness63643.yuku.com/topic/15017/t/Prologue-from-my-new-novel-Of-Atlantis.html

agatha
10-15-2007, 08:34 PM
Apart from Legend, any other David Gemmell recommendations for newbies to his work?

necia phoenix
10-15-2007, 08:36 PM
I've heard really good things about his book Legend. :)

Someone on Making Light considered calling her "Destroyer of Words" because she confessed to naming herself after a villainess on Stargate who was Destroyer of Worlds or Destroyer of Planets or something.
:ROFL:

Ok, I'll check it out.

I saw that and I woke up my husband giggling about it too. i think the perp is grabbing for attention. Any kind of attention. I think, she thinks that it will get her books sold.

Of course it is speculation though.

Has no one issued a Digital rights thing.. I can't remember the initials.
Or alerted the publishers?

JulieB
10-15-2007, 08:47 PM
That would be a DMCA notice. (DMCA stands for Digital Millennium Copyright Act.)

I recall reading in a thread somewhere that someone alerted the Gemmell estate. Can't remember who or where, sorry. (Up late finishing a project last night. Still need massive amounts of coffee.)

necia phoenix
10-15-2007, 08:54 PM
I KNEW it started with a 'D'. I did! Really!

:D

I hear you about the up late. I got told by my kids that whopps they didn't have clean clothes for school. So I was up late too.

JulieB
10-15-2007, 09:30 PM
She's updated her site (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/OfAtlantis.html), adding much of the same material she posted at Making Light as proof that she's been taken by Christopher Hill.

She's also posted a revised prologue. I'll let you guys read and decide for yourself.

brianm
10-15-2007, 09:32 PM
I sent emails to all of the sites I listed above regarding the plagiarized material. I just received a response from one advising they have removed the chapter.

http://www.poetstageforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2465&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=f396c412181ed748a2a54651f697129e

agatha
10-15-2007, 09:34 PM
She's updated her site (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/OfAtlantis.html), adding much of the same material she posted at Making Light as proof that she's been taken by Christopher Hill.

She's also posted a revised prologue. I'll let you guys read and decide for yourself.

Oh wow. But it seems the plagiarized version is still posted, in addition to the revised version?

brianm
10-15-2007, 09:44 PM
It gets to a point where I can no longer feel any sympathy for this woman. She obviously can edit her site but does not wish to for reasons I can no longer understand.

She posted this in her shoutbox…


Lanaia: I AM INNOCENT, I will have my attorney contact Jane and Jim, you know slander is a bad thing. I am even going to take a polygraph,I WI LL sue

JulieB
10-15-2007, 09:55 PM
Oh wow. But it seems the plagiarized version is still posted, in addition to the revised version?

She's said multiple times that the material has to be removed by the webmistress and she's requested that to be done. (Boy, if *I* had that sort of request, you bet I'd act fast.)

Apparently she has the ability to edit her home page.

(Whoops. Hit the wrong button there.)

It gets curiouser and curiouser. And Brian, I am starting to lose sympathy as well. I do want to believe that she's been badly taken (according to her page she's sent at least $1600 to Christopher Hill), and I can understand the automatic response to defend yourself to the hilt. But it's been how many days now?

absitinvidia
10-15-2007, 10:02 PM
I just read the "new" prologue.

To me, it's clearly just a reworked version of the original, plagiarized prologue. It has the same sequence of events involving the same characters, although the names have been changed.

So my question, to everyone who has read both versions, is, do you consider this new prologue to be any less of an infringement of David Gemmell's copyrighted material?

I see the exact same story here, only using simpler language. To me, that is not original prose, but I don't know if I'm being too harsh here.

DamaNegra
10-15-2007, 10:10 PM
I just read the "new" prologue.

To me, it's clearly just a reworked version of the original, plagiarized prologue. It has the same sequence of events involving the same characters, although the names have been changed.

So my question, to everyone who has read both versions, is, do you consider this new prologue to be any less of an infringement of David Gemmell's copyrighted material?

I see the exact same story here, only using simpler language. To me, that is not original prose, but I don't know if I'm being too harsh here.

That's exactly what I'm wondering. It's still the same characters and storyline. Surely, that counts as plagiarism too, right? How much rewritting should be done in order for a work to not be plagiarized?

Blickensderfer
10-15-2007, 10:29 PM
That's exactly what I'm wondering. It's still the same characters and storyline. Surely, that counts as plagiarism too, right? How much rewritting should be done in order for a work to not be plagiarized?


I'm guessing if you have to use the word "rewriting" in the question, then it's plagiarism.

DamaNegra
10-15-2007, 10:31 PM
I'm guessing if you have to use the word "rewriting" in the question, then it's plagiarism.

Maybe my wording was a little off :)

My question is this: where do you draw a line between two authors having similar ideas and one author plagiarizing another? Someone at Making Light linked to this article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFD9133EF934A35751C1A96F9482 60), which really got me thinking about the subject.

BarbJ
10-16-2007, 12:37 AM
My question is this: where do you draw a line between two authors having similar ideas and one author plagiarizing another? Someone at Making Light linked to this article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFD9133EF934A35751C1A96F9482 60), which really got me thinking about the subject.

Ideas can't be plagarized, but the French case sounds like more than ideas. In LL's case, since the book was already shown to be plagarized, she's on very shaky ground - particularly now that she can't claim lack of knowledge. I have to wonder if she really does have a lawyer.

It's interesting that the people she plans to sue (Jane and Jim) are those who exposed the truth. Um, wouldn't a simple apology be easier? And all negativity is gone from the comments on her site; only praise allowed. I felt some sympathy for her before, but it's rapidly being eroded by her own actions.

Okay, honesty. I felt some but not much. If you want to be a writer, learn the trade. If you want to claim to have written a book, at least edit it for errors. If you want to pay a ghost-writer and/or agent, check out their records. If you make a mistake and get caught, don't play the pity card; admit it and move on. And stop rationalizing!

If only she had simply admitted and apologized ... so much easier ... but then she'd have to write a new book ... :e2bummed:

jamiehall
10-16-2007, 12:53 AM
It seems she feels all the commotion is a benefit and that it will eventually make the rewritten work a best seller. Sad.

After reading her post this morning (#521 ::: Lanaia ::: (view all by) ::: October 15, 2007, 05:09 AM ) on makinglight…

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#009448

… it appears Hill worked on more chapters than was originally claimed. The offending chapter remains on display on the following sites. It will be interesting to see when they are finally removed.

http://www.alongstoryshort.net/LanaiaLee.html

http://www.poetstageforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2465&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=f396c412181ed748a2a54651f697129e

http://www.poetsandstorytellers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2785

http://forums.gotblack.com/viewthread.php?tid=21640&page=1#pid294879

http://sick66.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~3409.asp

http://creativeconsciousness63643.yuku.com/topic/15017/t/Prologue-from-my-new-novel-Of-Atlantis.html

I have been really trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, as you all have seen. But it is getting harder all the time. Even if she is not very smart, was scammed badly, and has judgment-impairing brain damage, she ought not to act this way after she's had this long to collect herself! I still feel sorry for her, and I still think the phony agents who contributed to this mess deserve the lion's share of the blame, but Mary/Lanaia is becoming less sympathetic by the hour!

brianm
10-16-2007, 03:34 AM
Cheryl Pillsbury just keeps adding wood to the fire. This is from Lanaia Lee’s yahoo group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lanaia/message/335


1) I can’t actually threaten anything Wicca because I’m not qualified and I believe I said that on the website.
2) Yes I did mention lawsuit and I plan to after I discuss the matter further with him.
3) I known Lanaia Lee for some years now and she’s an honest, caring and decent person.
4) Mr. Hill started this, he should get the death penalty for this mess, because he’s done this before with others.
5) My company is an open book, everything you need to know is on my website.
6) Before you continue to through stones, remember glass houses.

And this...


I spent the entire week and nights investigating this issue; it is true
Mr. Hill did purposely copy David Gemmell's book into hers. We have
placed the book on hold to re-write the prologue, which she did. I
also have an employee that will do a page-by-page comparison of the two
books, which I personally bought. Before we attack and injure the
wrong the person, we should look at who started this first, Mr. Hill
and you should know that Ms. Lee would never do such a thing. We both
never heard of this writer or his books. WE ARE GOING TO SUE!!!! Who
else wants to join the party???

Someone needs to take the spade away from this woman. At this rate, she’ll be in China by daybreak.

badducky
10-16-2007, 03:44 AM
Who is this Sue person they're going to be dragging into the discussion?

Seriously, if she's got even half the brains of Cheryl and Lanaia Sue put together, Sue will quickly and calmly run for the fire exit and jump before getting involved in this mess.

Poor Sue. Be carefuller with your friends in your next life Sue.

brianm
10-16-2007, 03:52 AM
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any stranger, Cheryl Pillsbury proves you wrong.

Jane Litte, from Dearauthor.com, has posted some excerpts from the emails she is receiving from Cheryl Pillsbury, the “agent.”

http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/10/11/top-10-tips-for-plagairists/


My attorney is named Tony Billard, I even volunteered for a polygraph! See you in court!


He will contact you, no way you are going to bug him, I am sueing for deformation of character and slander, also I’m sueing Jim McDonald, see in court


This is Cheryl Pillsbury, I’m the founder of AG Press. She was scammed by Mr. Hill and asked me to help her with hers. We have written proof of this of what he did and we are going to sue, we each have lawyers. You have caused enough pain and suffering from this, Lanaia is ill over this and if she has a stroke from this, stand clear for more lawsuits. I’m requesting you to keep quiet, refrain from further words.

A response from Jane.


Ms. Pillsbury:
I don’t understand why you are emailing me. If you have a lawsuit, have your attorney contact me. If not, why email me? I really don’t understand why I am the cause of the “pain and suffering” since all I did was point out that the material your client still has posted at her site is a word for word copying of David Gemmell’s work.
As I explained to Ms. Lee, she would need to identify the specific statements that are objectionable because I do not find anything that I have written to be outside the bounds of either civil or criminal laws.
Jane Litte

Back to Pillsbury…


Because you are accusing the wrong person, you should do a search and find Mr. Hill. He did it, not Lanaia Lee. Don’t worry, when the papers are ready, you will hear from him, trust me. We had no clue this person or his books existed until last week when YOU posted it. I asked you not to and YOU did, now we have this huge explosion going on and it started with YOU.

Drumroll, please…


I have an interview with a major state newspaper on Thursday, they have all of Christopher’s e=mails vindicating me, here’s the deal, you acknowledge my innocence or I will drag your name through the mud, like people from your site and Mr. McDonald’s site did to my name. You have until tomorrow or when the paper does the interview it will be posted on line and I will post it everywhere I can showing how your article unjustly accused me.

shakeysix
10-16-2007, 03:59 AM
i swore i would never post on another one of these lunatics from over yonder threads but deformation of character? now that has to be grounds for something!--s6

Rolling Thunder
10-16-2007, 04:00 AM
Yeah. She's about to find out that the real world works differently.

Blickensderfer
10-16-2007, 04:13 AM
Cheryl Pillsbury just keeps adding wood to the fire. This is from Lanaia Lee’s yahoo group.

And then there's post 336: Diddo.

Diddo?

Maybe she IS a writer, she manages to convey quite a lot with that one word.

WittyandorIronic
10-16-2007, 04:19 AM
And then there's post 336: Diddo.

Diddo?

Maybe she IS a writer, she manages to convey quite a lot with that one word.

hahaha, that made me scare the kids I laughed so hard.
I think I am going to institute a W a/o I award and hand it out whenever I see little gems like yours. Fantastic.

Memnon624
10-16-2007, 04:29 AM
I read somewhere that Jane at Dear Author actually IS a lawyer. This should be interesting.

*calls up his kettle corn supplier to see about getting the new sooper-dooper Internet train-wreck size*

Scott

brianm
10-16-2007, 04:50 AM
- Was Pillsbury *deformed* by words?
- Will someone *through* stones remembering glass houses?
- Did Hill start all of this and will he get the death penalty?
- Who is Tony Billard and does he exist?
- What will the major state newspaper interview reveal?
- Will there be a huge explosion with a party afterwards?

“PillsburyGate”

Better than raunchy sex chocolate Phentermine!

Rolling Thunder
10-16-2007, 05:04 AM
I read the original prologue again and compared it with the new *coughimprovedcough* version.

Ye gods...

It's a lesson on how to suck the life from a reader.

necia phoenix
10-16-2007, 05:13 AM
I read somewhere that Jane at Dear Author actually IS a lawyer. This should be interesting.

*calls up his kettle corn supplier to see about getting the new sooper-dooper Internet train-wreck size*

Scott

Oh. Really!
:popcorn:
Send some of that kettle corn my way will ya?

shakeysix
10-16-2007, 05:45 AM
there has been another innocent victim of pillsbury gate:

uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Pillsbury_Doughboy (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Pillsbury_Doughboy)

WittyandorIronic
10-16-2007, 05:52 AM
lol...I grew up with a kid we nicknamed PBDB, short for the pillsbury doughboy. Even after he lost tons of weight (due to crack) we still called him PBDB, until one day he freaked out (again, due to crack) and we never saw him again. /sigh. I still miss that kid.
well...just to tie it in with the thread, I think maybe LL/Mary/Cheryl is on crack.

ORION
10-16-2007, 07:14 AM
I think she meant DILDO not DIDDO...oh er nevermind

Soccer Mom
10-16-2007, 07:19 AM
This is from her message board. She's tired of all the "gear say".


from Lanaia


I thought a person was innocent until proven guilty. No one has any
hard evidence that I am guilty, just gear say and comparisons, but I
have hard evidence. You seem like a bright person, if you were in my
shoes wouldn't you want to take consideration of both sides, weigh the
evidence, then when proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, then
accuse a person? Last time I checked that's how the American Judicial
System Works.

mscelina
10-16-2007, 07:30 AM
um...what in the hell is gear say? is that when your bicycle starts making clever comments at you and then someone in a white coat takes you to a nice quiet place in the country?

(I tried so hard not to plagiarize "They're Coming To Take Me Away" in this post that my eardrums are now bleeding. Go figure)

At any rate, I find it difficult to believe that ANYONE purporting to be a writer could POSSIBLY not have more self-worth than to publish such horrific abuses of the language and expect to be taken seriously. And I'm talking from my glass made lab, so you know I know what I'm talking about.

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 07:44 AM
- Was Pillsbury *deformed* by words?
We'll find out when she takes her polograph.

benbradley
10-16-2007, 07:56 AM
We'll find out when she takes her polograph.
I'd be surprised if she could ride a horse, much less play polo.

ORION
10-16-2007, 08:11 AM
HA AH AHAHAHAHAHH
I got it!!!!

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 05:23 PM
Oh, dear. Now on her group, she's bragging about how she's being interviewed by a major interview, and through them, the truth will come out. Because her evidence has dates on it and stuff and can't be tampered with, unlike blogs. She also says her book will be published with the new prologue, because she worked hard to write it. She doesn't understand by now that her book is doomed. Nor does she understand that her "new" prologue is still a rip-off. And not all of it is Christopher Hill's fault. If she'd simply listened to the first people who told her it was ripped off from David Gemmell, there would have been no fuss, no trainwreck.

Forget any modicum of sympathy I had earlier (however begrudging). This woman is like the Egyptian god Janus. She "apologizes" in the blogs (even as she threatens law suits and calls people mean and continues to be clueless), but then in her group, she says they're all crazy liars. And now she goes on to post this. Being scammed only excuses so much. What a reasonable person would do after the plagiarism was revealed is remove the offending portion. And if any websites still had it up, she would keep contacting them, and try other e-mail addresses just in case the originals were getting caught in a spam trap.

However, I still think she was ripped off by Christopher Hill because she doesn't seem clever enough to have thought that up on her own. I don't think she's crazy like a fox. Yet.

agatha
10-16-2007, 05:42 PM
Yeah, I don't think she gets it. At all.

Maybe she thinks that if people don't blog about it, the issue will just *poof* magically resolve itself and that her innocence will be clear? And that her book will still be published and become the next Harry Potter?

Blickensderfer
10-16-2007, 05:54 PM
The only thing she's got in common with Harry Potter is that she's feeding on the negative energy like a Dementor.

How often do you think POD or vanity publishers actually print plagiarized material? I hadn't thought about it before this, but if there's a market to have ghostwriters pen the novel of your heart, then there must be people who are willing to take "I wish I'd written that" to the next level. I find it hard to believe the "publisher" in such a case has the staff or the inclination to check, and if "distribution" consists of Mom and Aunt Edith, the chances of being caught are fairly slim.

DamaNegra
10-16-2007, 06:08 PM
If she'd simply listened to the first people who told her it was ripped off from David Gemmell, there would have been no fuss, no trainwreck.

She should have listened to the people who told her Hill was a scam, yet she didn't.

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 06:13 PM
Yeah, I don't think she gets it. At all.

Maybe she thinks that if people don't blog about it, the issue will just *poof* magically resolve itself and that her innocence will be clear? And that her book will still be published and become the next Harry Potter?
Only if she copies a few chapters from one of the Harry Potter books. :D


The only thing she's got in common with Harry Potter is that she's feeding on the negative energy like a Dementor.
Oooh, that's good.
:Trophy:


How often do you think POD or vanity publishers actually print plagiarized material? I hadn't thought about it before this, but if there's a market to have ghostwriters pen the novel of your heart, then there must be people who are willing to take "I wish I'd written that" to the next level. I find it hard to believe the "publisher" in such a case has the staff or the inclination to check, and if "distribution" consists of Mom and Aunt Edith, the chances of being caught are fairly slim.
It probably happens more often than we realize. There was a PA author who wrote a book about cancer cures and was caught out thanks to an AW member. (He copied text from a number of web sites and pasted it in his book.) PA canceled the book, but he can't be the only one.

And what about copyright infringment? A number of people use vanity presses to publish their Phantom of the Opera fan fiction. While the original novel is in the public domain, any POTO fan (I mean phan) fiction based on the musical or movie would be in a gray area. And I'm sure there have been Star Wars or Star Trek novels published this way. Who would know? So few people buy the vanity press books.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 06:14 PM
Oh, my. Ms. Lee posted to her Yahoo group:


I am being interviewed by a major newspaper, they have all my evidence, the proof will come out then and I WILL post the article. Unlike blogs and things that can be tampered with, my proof is dated, no way it can be tampered with, so we shall see who id truthful. I have nothing to
worry about, but others, well they really should stop for a moment and
think

She's posted something similar to the guestbook on her site. The proof she's posted so far consists of e-mails. They only way she's going to prove that those weren't tampered with is to get a forensic computer specialist (and, possibly, a subpoena or two) to examine her hard drive and records at her ISP. I'm not saying that I don't doubt her; I'm just saying that obtaining proof that's acceptable in court may not be as easy as she thinks. Perhaps she has some paper evidence?

She's also now stating that her prologue HAS been changed, but it takes 24 hours for the change to show up. Giving her the benefit of a doubt, I'll assume that means once the webmistress gets a change that it takes her up to 24 hours to make it. Changes should show up instantly. The one thing that bugs me in all this is that she seems to have the ability to change her home page. Why, then, did she not simply remove the link to the prologue? Yes, the page would still be there, but it would be an act of good faith, IMO.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 06:18 PM
And I'm sure there have been Star Wars or Star Trek novels published this way. Who would know? So few people buy the vanity press books.

The Shadow, I mean, Teresa Nielsen Hayden knows (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007459.html#007459)!

Blickensderfer
10-16-2007, 06:23 PM
Even the people at her Yahoo group seem to be backing away slowly. I'd love to be a roach under her sink for that interview - something tells me the reporter's take on all this will be closer to ours than hers.

Dawno
10-16-2007, 06:27 PM
There's a great new post up at Dear Author (http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/10/16/how-to-fling-about-legal-insults-like-a-lawyer-part-1-of-many-parts/) (and it's first in a series) that I highly recommend. Discusses libel vs. slander and SLAPP. It's good.

brianm
10-16-2007, 06:27 PM
Forget the homepage, what about the other four sites that still have the offending chapter posted in her name? She could have easily gone to those sites and deleted the material.

I believe she's playing the victim card because she thinks it will benefit her book and make her more "famous." Getting her name out there and all that. Unfortunately, it's going to backfire in a big way.

I agree that the new prologue is just as damning as the first one. It's as if she's badly traced Mickey Mouse and is now selling the image as her own original creation. Not gonna fly.

It appears the publisher and the family were notified on or about the 11th and are aware of what has transpired. I'm sure all will be resolved in short order. Perhaps then she will realize the advice she was given was sound.

As for her "agent", I hope she takes a whooping. Her conduct, IMO, has been deplorable, unprofessional, and unforgivable. She disgraces the good name of hard working, reputable agents and should be made an example of before she can damage another new author's writing career. She makes my teeth grate and I’m tired of reading the garbage and crap spewed out by wannabes who have gleaned their “knowledge” of the industry at the scamming feet of PA.

absitinvidia
10-16-2007, 06:53 PM
It amazes me that she seems to think that a "major" newspaper will take everything she says as gospel and will do no investigating into the allegations of plagiarism made against her, or the allegations of "slander" made by her. Any competent journalist would eat her alive.

Then again, this is a woman who thinks the Portuguese Publish America is a major publishing house, so this interviewer could be a first-year East Piedmont State Technical College student doing a writing assignment.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 06:55 PM
And back at Dear Author:


The latest from Long Story Short’s owners, who have missed the point completely.
Denise Cassino Tuesday, 10/16/07, 7:16 AM
Lanaia Lee, along with her publisher and lawyer, are addressing the situation that revolves around her book, Of Atlantis, and the David Gemmell book. She has posted a statement on her page in the Writers’ Lodge. Until she is proven guilty of something, her page will remain. This is America. Many of you are on a campaign to destroy her. Be aware that you will be hearing from her lawyers. If it is proven that she did indeed purposely plagarize the work, her page will be removed. Until then, she is a member of our Writers’ Lodge.
Web Site: Long Story Short
Email: d.cassino@att.net

Kudra
10-16-2007, 07:07 PM
It amazes me that she seems to think that a "major" newspaper will take everything she says as gospel and will do no investigating into the allegations of plagiarism made against her, or the allegations of "slander" made by her. Any competent journalist would eat her alive.

Which is why I'm so looking forward to that article. This just keeps getting better and better. :popcorn:

brianm
10-16-2007, 07:10 PM
Unbelievable.

She's not concerned that her site is posting this material? Says a great deal about the site and the site owner.

But wait, didn't Miss Lee say this…

http://www.alongstoryshort.net/LanaiaLee.html


Lanaia: It was changed today, just takes a while to show up

More lies?

I be done with this woman. It's obvious at this point that she thinks because she was allegedly scammed she has absolutely no responsibility in setting things right. I hope she’s taken to the cleaners right along with Pillsbury. Any sympathy I had for her has completely vanished.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 07:22 PM
Here's the line that gets me:


If it is proven that she did indeed purposely plagarize the work, her page will be removed.

Does that mean inadvertent plagiarism is just fine and dandy? I'd like to hope that was written in the heat of the moment and she really, really didn't mean that.

benbradley
10-16-2007, 07:22 PM
It amazes me that she seems to think that a "major" newspaper will take everything she says as gospel and will do no investigating into the allegations of plagiarism made against her, or the allegations of "slander" made by her. Any competent journalist would eat her alive.

Then again, this is a woman who thinks the Portuguese Publish America is a major publishing house, so this interviewer could be a first-year East Piedmont State Technical College student doing a writing assignment.
I was wondering if she is REALLY being interviewed by a newspaper reporter of any description. It's my observation that people like this, making threats of lawsuits left and right, are (saying this in the nices way possible) just full of hot air.

I recall on the SPAM-L spam-fighting list, unrepentant spammers would threaten to sue someone for "shutting down" their "free speech rights" (basically, informing their ISP that they were sending spam). About one in a million such threats would actually result in a suit.

brianm
10-16-2007, 07:25 PM
I'm guessing the site owner is getting some rather interesting emails, including ones like this.

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009448.html#009448


Someone on the Long Story Short guestbook (as opposed to the Lanaia Lee guestbook) is now asking if all authors on LSS are plagiarists. As someone who's had a story published on the site in the past, I have emailed the owners asking that if they're going to insist on keeping David Gemmell's work up there, I want mine removed from their archives.
I'm not happy with this association at all but feared all along it would happen.

An excellent post from the same thread.


#692 ::: Simon Bradshaw ::: (view all by) ::: October 16, 2007, 09:18 AM:
Well, the sorry story continues. I'm not addressing this to Lanaia, because it's become painfully clear that she either doesn't want to listen to advice, or is too arrogant or stupid to follow it. (Threatening to sue people who have pointed out that you have committed a legal wrong is rarely a good sign, for starters.) So this is in the context of discussing copyright in general.

At this point I should note that my general legal training is in English law and my intellectual property knowledge mainly relates to English, UK and European jurisdictions. But many of the principles of US copyright law are the same (particularly since the USA joined the Berne Convention in 1989) and what I'm about to discuss applies fairly universally. For that matter, the English courts would probably agree to hear a suit in this matter, as Gemmell was an English author and his copyright is in part held by an English publisher. That the infringement took place in the USA is significant but not a barrier to pursuing a case.

By hosting a copy of David Gemmell's work on her website, Lanaia is infringing the copyright held by his estate and his publishers. Having been given notice of this infringement, she has continued to display it; this will not indicate goodwill in the eyes of the Court.

Had she genuinely had no idea that it was a pirated work, and taken it down immediately, she would probably have had a defence against a claim of infringement. (It's rather like the inadvertent trespasser who immediately leaves your land when asked). But she has admitted - and indeed has posted this admission on her page, as well as here - that she had notice of her ghost-writer's dishonesty, as well as ample opportunity to find out if the work he was producing was pirated. (She didn't think to look? Sorry, welcome to the legal concept of 'constructive notice' - you could easily have found out, so the court assumes you did and takes it from there.)
Lanaia has now posted an amended prologue that appears to be a close paraphrase of Gemmell's work instead of a simple copy with the names (mostly) changed. She evidently believes that this is not an infringement. Sorry, it is. There is ample case law on both sides of the Atlantic that a summary or paraphrase infringes copyright in the original, particularly if it is presented as being an original work in its own right. It also infringes on Gemmell's moral rights in his work - it is a mutilation of his creation and thus counts as 'derogatory treatment'. The US traditionally paid rather less attention to moral rights than English or (especially) European jurisdictions, but following accession to the Berne convention they now have more impact.

In short, Lanaia is just going to have to take down and throw away anything copied from or based on Gemmell's works, and start over with something original. I concede that this is probably a very scary concept for her, but there you go.

Blickensderfer
10-16-2007, 07:31 PM
I was wondering if she is REALLY being interviewed by a newspaper reporter of any description. It's my observation that people like this, making threats of lawsuits left and right, are (saying this in the nices way possible) just full of hot air.


True, but I'm hoping. After all, AW, Making Light and DA have found plenty to say, so it's not beyond possibility that an enterprising reporter thought it would make a good story. All the reporter's got to do is let her ramble, then give a call to Jane and Uncle Jim. Presto, a fabulous feature story. I'd read it. Twice, then forward it to friends.

With another moment's thought, he (or she) would need to call Random House, a real lawyer and the Gemmell estate representative, too.

Kudra
10-16-2007, 07:31 PM
I was wondering if she is REALLY being interviewed by a newspaper reporter of any description. It's my observation that people like this, making threats of lawsuits left and right, are (saying this in the nices way possible) just full of hot air.


My first thought was that it's BS, too. But it's likely-- good story, threats of lawsuits, literary angle, and a plagiarizer who just can't keep her mouth shut. It'll practically write itself.

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 07:32 PM
And back at Dear Author:

The latest from Long Story Short’s owners, who have missed the point completely...
Let that be a reminder that there are some truly clueless "writing" sites out there, and some e-zines that are just as clueless. (Like the one that posted a couple of my Writing-World articles on a s*x story site without permission. Or the writing board where someone posted my entire article in a message without permission or attribution.)

Sadly, not all writers end up at a place like AW, Forward Motion, sff.net, Making Light, etc. Some end up in sites like that.

Stacia Kane
10-16-2007, 07:34 PM
I

Then again, this is a woman who thinks the Portuguese Publish America is a major publishing house, so this interviewer could be a first-year East Piedmont State Technical College student doing a writing assignment.

It was pointed out to her several weeks ago on the Realms of Fantasy forums that her Portugese publisher is a scam.

http://forums.rofmagazine.com/showthread.php?t=3932&highlight=portugal

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 07:58 PM
Some will consider this mean :Shrug:, but I wonder if it's time we need a Bewares and Background Check thread on the Long Story Short site. The way they have acted makes me wonder. Certainly writers should at least be cautioned about their behavior in this case.

Does anyone know who actually owns and/or runs the site?

nerds
10-16-2007, 07:59 PM
Not to excuse one iota of the wreck, not one bit, but this thought keeps running through my mind - since she *seems* to think that negative publicity is better than none at all - there's been a real sea change regarding that. Paris Hilton goes to jail and gets a People cover, Keifer Sutherland gets another DUI and the world says Way to Go Jack Bauer, Janet Dailey nicks from Nora Roberts and still sells like hotcakes . . .

Lately there's been, in some instances, a real payoff for bad behavior, whereas years ago it would have sunk one's career. Maybe Ms. Lee is thinking this is what will happen for her.

:popcorn:

JulieB
10-16-2007, 08:00 PM
Here ya go (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/MeettheEditors.html).

(That link goes to the site editors, one of whom wrote the "Until she is proven guilty of something, her page will remain" statement.)

agatha
10-16-2007, 08:04 PM
Paris Hilton goes to jail and gets a People cover, Keifer Sutherland gets another DUI and the world says Way to Go Jack Bauer, Janet Dailey nicks from Nora Roberts and still sells like hotcakes . . .

Lately there's been, in some instances, a real payoff for bad behavior, whereas years ago it would have sunk one's career. Maybe Ms. Lee is thinking this is what will happen for her.

:popcorn:

Yeah, but I think already being known (at least somewhat) factors into that, too. If you're only known for something like this, I can't imagine that this would work out in your favor.

But how knows what she's thinking....


It was pointed out to her several weeks ago on the Realms of Fantasy forums that her Portugese publisher is a scam.

http://forums.rofmagazine.com/showthread.php?t=3932&highlight=portugal

I guess they need their own Bewares and Background thread...

BarbJ
10-16-2007, 08:06 PM
I have to wonder if either of these people realize when LL bought Hill's writing, she also bought ownership and responsibility. Or that by rewriting it but still stealing the basic storyline, she may be opening herself up to a stronger or even second charge of plagarism, as mentioned in Dama Negra's post about the French case. Do either of them truly have lawyers, or are they simply not listening to legal advice?

I believe LL wasn't aware of the plagarism at first, but her reaction since the discovery is to dig the hole deeper. Just think of what good PR she could have gotten. Ah, well, opportunities lost. If I were her, I'd be worried about any interviews. They can't end well.

JanDarby
10-16-2007, 08:11 PM
What the website owner (and everyone else involved with the posting of the text) seems to be missing is that plagiarism is an ONGOING tort (and tort is not a type of cake, but a wrongful act).

It could be argued that the initial posting of the material was "innocent" (although that's not the right legal term, but it's the one everyone's claiming and it's okay as shorthand), but once the various parties were advised that the text had been copied (regardless of who did it originally), then continuing to present it as the work of someone else is a new and INTENTIONAL action for legal purposes.

BTW, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the newspaper reporter to understand any of this. For all we know, it's just another fluff piece: disabled person overcomes adversity. I can't really imagine a major newspaper being even remotely interested in any of this or thinking that any of the issues we care about as writers would be of interest to the general public. I'm such a cynic.

JD, not giving legal advice, but just pointing out what should be obvious general information.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 08:14 PM
There are some people who subscribe to the "there's no such thing as bad publicity" maxim.

That is SO wrong. I have personal examples, but they're very off-topic. (No, I have never subscribed to that theory, but some around me have.)

benbradley
10-16-2007, 08:24 PM
Not to excuse one iota of the wreck, not one bit, but this thought keeps running through my mind - since she *seems* to think that negative publicity is better than none at all - there's been a real sea change regarding that. Paris Hilton goes to jail and gets a People cover, Keifer Sutherland gets another DUI and the world says Way to Go Jack Bauer, Janet Dailey nicks from Nora Roberts and still sells like hotcakes . . .

Lately there's been, in some instances, a real payoff for bad behavior, whereas years ago it would have sunk one's career. Maybe Ms. Lee is thinking this is what will happen for her.

:popcorn:


I'm thinking of an exception to that (which probably proves the rule...),:James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces," the Smoking Gun expose', and his subsquent Oprah appearance(s). ISTR since that last Oprah appearance they cancelled the movie to be made from that book, as well as one or more future book or screenplay deals he had. You'd think he's the OJ of the 21st Century, that he "got away with something he shouldn't have."

(The publisher even offered refunds for the book - has that EVER been done before?)

Public reaction is an odd thing (though in this case I think Oprah's spin/reaction/washing her hands of Frey had a whole lot to do with his downfall): You can drive drunk on the roads risking others' lives, break your probation and have to go to jail, steal copyrighted material from others, etc., and the public will still love you, but if you lie and exaggerate on the "bad stuff you did" in your memoir, you're dead meat.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 08:36 PM
FWIW, the prologue is now gone (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/OfAtlantis.html).

And this posted by the LSS editor to Ms. Lee's guestbook (which has been mysteriously purged of threats):


Linaia does not control what comes and goes from her page. I do. I did not realize we had a link to Of Atlantis. I have removed it. I have about 2500 pages on this website and sometimes I can't remember every entry and every link. IT IS GONE! Denise Cassino Senior Editor

brianm
10-16-2007, 08:42 PM
I'm thinking of an exception to that (which probably proves the rule...),:James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces," the Smoking Gun expose', and his subsquent Oprah appearance(s). ISTR since that last Oprah appearance they cancelled the movie to be made from that book, as well as one or more future book or screenplay deals he had. You'd think he's the OJ of the 21st Century, that he "got away with something he shouldn't have."

(The publisher even offered refunds for the book - has that EVER been done before?)

Public reaction is an odd thing (though in this case I think Oprah's spin/reaction/washing her hands of Frey had a whole lot to do with his downfall): You can drive drunk on the roads risking others' lives, break your probation and have to go to jail, steal copyrighted material from others, etc., and the public will still love you, but if you lie and exaggerate on the "bad stuff you did" in your memoir, you're dead meat.

You're dead meat if it embarrasses the wrong person. In his case, he embarrassed Oprah and she made him pay for making her look, in her estimation, clueless. His mistake was going back on the show. He should have hid out for a couple of months until the storm blew itself out.

That said, more than likely Oprah would not have let it go and when he reappeared, she would probably have whipped up the storm all over again.

It isn't nice to fool mother nature. Especially, when she's the most powerful woman in television. :D

brianm
10-16-2007, 08:50 PM
FWIW, the prologue is now gone (http://www.alongstoryshort.net/OfAtlantis.html).

And this posted by the LSS editor to Ms. Lee's guestbook (which has been mysteriously purged of threats):

The rewrite has also been removed.

Finally, someone took their smart pills.

JulieB
10-16-2007, 08:52 PM
Apparently she's going to post the "real original prologue" at some point.

O-kay.

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 08:53 PM
The rewrite has also been removed.
Phew!


Finally, someone took their smart pills.
Now why don't they start advertising those on their site? :)

AnneMarble
10-16-2007, 08:54 PM
Apparently she's going to post the real original prologue at some point.
That's the one that starts "It was the best of Atlantis, it was the worst of Atlantis..."


WTF?
Exactly.

agatha
10-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Apparently she's going to post the real original prologue at some point.

O-kay.

If just her rambling rewrite made my eyes bleed, I don't think I can bear to reread the original prologue...

JulieB
10-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Now why don't they start advertising those on their site? :)

Pills are advertised through spam, don'tcha know! ;)

nerds
10-16-2007, 09:01 PM
It isn't nice to fool mother nature. Especially, when she's the most powerful woman in television.


When the Freystorm was first breaking over mother nature, she defended/supported him on Larry King. Then, as the storm reached Cat 5 a day or so later, she changed her position.

I just wonder about the cumulative effect on the ordinary person of so many public people (Frey notwithstanding) actually benefiting from negative behavior. And Frey's book continued to sell very well indeed during those first stormy weeks, in no small part due to the storm.

Perhaps subconsciously, perhaps not, an influence and example is being set in the minds of the ordinary public. Just thinkin'.

brianm
10-16-2007, 09:03 PM
Apparently she's going to post the "real original prologue" at some point.

O-kay.

With all the high drama contained in this story, it would not surprise me if someone spontaneously combusts. It could very well be me. :D

WittyandorIronic
10-16-2007, 09:08 PM
I was thinking....I wonder if either Christopher Hill or Cheryl the pay-to-POD Agent gave her a referral to a lawyer, or are imparting legal advice themselves. I am not sympathetic to her (really, at this point it is impossible) but she can't really have a lawyer (not a scam lawyer or 'i heard you were a scam artist but I'll still let you convince me you are not all bad' lawyer) and the lawyer NOT be locking her in a room and telling her to just shut up and play dead. And if she doesn't have a real lawyer, than she lied again.
Wow. it's kind of scary after awhile.
She is either the stupidest woman in the world with HUGE emotional/over trust issues,
or the slimiest most bizarre scam artist....with a big ol' slice of stupid.

Blickensderfer
10-16-2007, 09:11 PM
Pills are advertised through spam, don'tcha know! ;)

Oh, those pills. Aren't they supposed to make your diddo grow?

JulieB
10-16-2007, 09:13 PM
Oh, those pills. Aren't they supposed to make your diddo grow?

Good thing my coffee cup is empty. I'd have lost a keyboard.

brianm
10-16-2007, 09:14 PM
I just received an email from Gotblack.com advising that they will be removing the posted chapter, Miss Lee, and all of her posts from their site.

triceretops
10-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Whoops, wrong post.

triceretops
10-16-2007, 09:20 PM
HarperCollins recently announced a new Frey novel, Bright Shiny Morning, to be published in the summer of 2008 [8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey#_note-6) [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey#_note-7).


Uh, Frey's not hurting that bad from the looks of it.

Tri

brianm
10-16-2007, 09:31 PM
HarperCollins recently announced a new Frey novel, Bright Shiny Morning, to be published in the summer of 2008 [8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey#_note-6) [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey#_note-7).


Uh, Frey's not hurting that bad from the looks of it.

Tri

I have never read his first book, but it's nice to know his career has continued to advance.

I must confess "Memoirs of a Geisha Girl" annoyed me in the end. I threw the book across the room when I read it was fiction. However, it was a good read and I got over it in short order.:)