Graphic Novel Page Rates

Dude, I coulda used the answer to this question about a month ago.


Sigh.


But expect to get a loss less than you'd normally expect. Comic writers are plentiful. Also, an overall rate might work better, as opposed to a page rate, since you already know the number of pages, and since it's an adaption of an already-finished work. That's what I settled with, anyway.


Look at me, thinking I know what I'm talking about.....come back in ten years and I'll be jaded by the industry and shuffling around mumbling to myself.....

They will tell you they can afford less than they can. You tell them you want more than you are willing to accept.

To be honest, the whole deal smells a little fishy to me.

For one, a GN is usually longer than 75 pages, but that's not really a big deal.

That they want a novel adapting to 75 pages means you have a lot to cut out. Now that is do-able. Subplots are ditched, maybe cull out a few characters or combine them. But it requires a lot more work on your part than just writing a 75 page comic.

You have to read the novel. Then you have to re-read and start editing it down. You'll need to know the novel as well as the author did.

Then you have to get approval for the editorial changes you are making. You might well have to write a good chunk of the script only to rewrite if they don't like the changes you made.

My point here is that you need to consider these factors when you work out your rate. How much time will all this take you? How many hours to read the novel? How many hours to edit the novel? How many hours to write the script? How many hours to re-write the script?

Given that you could well have to do rewriting, I too would quote a price for the project as a whole, but I would also add that rewrites would be billed at an hourly/page rate.

So if you were talking 75 pages at $30 per page, you'd have $2250.

If you wanna come in cheap, you might say that the total is $2000. WIth an additional factor of rewrites billed at $25 per page (partials included).

I would also say that I wanted either one-third or one-half in advance and the rest on delivery. I would also say that this deposit is non-refundable.

Setting up these conditions will do a couple of things.

It'll show you are serious.
It'll force them to take you seriously especially if their money is on the line.
Setting up the rewrite 'clause' will hopefully make them clearer in their instructions if they face the prospect of paying for messing you around.

Now I went with numbers based on your initial figure. You might decide your page rate needs to be more. You might decide that the exposure has some value so you're willing to take lass money. I can't say on those.

Hope this helps.

starbirdy66 said:

Thanks for joining in wordmonkey, in searching around trying to find answers on my own I saw your posts around alot. I'm happy to have your "word" on it.

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OK, I should say that I have never worked a comic book this. OK, I have done it kinda this way, but it wasn't a happy experience. All my comments are based more of working freelance graphic design and copy writing.

starbirdy66 said:

I'm thinking they are children novels; so maybe the 75 page isn't so much out of line. They gave an example of turning Alice in Wonderland into a 50 page comic for reference. However when they came back to me asking for numbers based on a 75 page output they didn't name the source material. I'm waiting to hear on that. I told them I might consider a flat fee if they had a problem with the $30/page (not telling them I'm hoping I wouldn't go below 2000 as well). I offered this for the first project and that we could renegotiate page rate for the second project if they were happy with my work and I could turn the job around in a reasonable time.

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OK, one thing that I would want to know here would be what the source material is. Specifically, do they have copyright ownership of the book? It could be public domain, and you're OK. Again, this needn't be your problem, but you wanna make sure that you are covered should someone sue.

I would also not specifically give a cut rate on the first gig, hoping for more later. For one, you get lots of chancers looking for that and you never hear from them again. Additionally, if they DO come back to you, what is likely to happen is that you'll get something like this as an offer.

"Well, we love working with you, we have lots of these projects coming up and they can all be yours, just need you to give us a slightly better price. I mean, come on, we ARE giving you more work here, so sure, you're making a little less per page/book, we are giving you more in total."​

starbirdy66 said:

I'm glad you mentioned rewrites. I'll remember that if we have an exchange again (bidding site...I'm just starting out). They weren't clear on how their production works; I was having a hard time quoting timelines for delivery and was upfront about being new to comics (they posted inviting script writers as well). I was thinking a week to read the material and quickly outline it figuring out what to cut and a few weeks for writing (that would be about all my free time). I don't know if it is reasonable or not.

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Rewrites really depend on what kind of set-up you have. If they give you complete freedom, it might not be an issue. If you were working on something original, it likely wouldn't be an issue at all (mostly because you'd be working with an editor and you'd have your story nailed ahead of time. I only mention here because it's a specific adaption.

Time involved. My wife can read a standard paper-back novel in an evening (and that's real reading, not speed-reading - don't ask me, I have no idea how she does it!). Same book could take me a week of evenings.

However, you will need to read it. Then you gotta go back and take the book apart. Remember, they will likely want actual scenes duplicating and dialog including. You have to go through and high-light that stuff. Then you have to take the book apart and put it back together using just what you need. Then you have to write the script INCLUDING specifics.

I could work out how long that would take me, but you'd know what you can do.

And a tip. Tell them it will take you longer than you know you will need. Promise long - deliver short. If you can set the deadline, give yourself as much time as you can. So you come in under-deadline and look good - that ain't a bad thing, and they'll be so pleased they'll forget that you set the deadline.

starbirdy66 said:

I know a little based on what I read and I did my research before I put in my initial bid; having read somewhere that a writer's page rate could range anywhere from $20 to $200 dollars. That's helpful. I at least want to get paid within that range even if it is the first project.

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$200 is gonna be big name Marvel and DC types. If this is your first project (or one of your first) $20 will be doing well. But again, the basis here is that these prices are based on you just writing. You are doing more than that here.

starbirdy66 said:

I don't know if there is real exposure involved here; and I'm sure the page rate should be more but I sometimes feel between the rock and a hard place. Okay...you like my work but I have to guess how you want things done before I get the job. Way to go. Things are a little easier in the corporate world...but not as much fun I suppose.

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If the thing gets on store shelves, it's exposure. At worst, if the book goes through you have a credit. And you want to make contact with the art team. This could be worth it just for the contacts you make.

starbirdy66 said:

I guess we'll see how serious they are. When they get back to me I'll be prepared.

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Yup.

starbirdy66 said:

Thanks again.

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No problems. Good luck and come back and tell us how it goes.

It would be very helpful if you gave us an idea who or what this company is.

Thirty bucks a page is a pretty lowball rate.

starbirdy66 said:

I thought I was being snobbish asking for $30 a page when I don't even have credit for that type of work yet.

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$30 bucks a page was starting rate twenty years ago.

My suggestion would be to find out who these people are and what they're doing before you commit any further.

I'm not implying they're shady, but they might not have any idea of what they're doing.

Axler said:

$30 bucks a page was starting rate twenty years ago.

My suggestion would be to find out who these people are and what they're doing before you commit any further.

I'm not implying they're shady, but they might not have any idea of what they're doing.

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It is low. But if you have no credits, it's hard to shoot for a better rate. In that end of the pool, it's not always easy to find someone who will pay an up front page rate at all.

Were I to make a guess, I would say this is the first time they have done this, have no idea of what all's involved and have just gone with the low-ball bid. I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't the the lowest and they are trying to be savvy by not going with the lowest.

That you have no credits and you sent them a sample (what was that? some existing comic character? your own thing? any which way it) suggests they are looking for cheap, not good.

Please don't take that as a slur, I don't mean it that way. You could be awesome at this, I don't know. My point is they don't really care, or they don't really know what they are looking at.

All of the above said and done, I'd say you should still go for it. Even if it seems a little loose at the seems, if you have no credits, what do you have to lose but a little time. And what you will learn could be invaluable.

Axler will likely disagree, but that's OK. Just remember he is coming at this situation with a body of work behind him and a much longer history in the business. I'm coming up from the bottom, and am still at the stage where I am willing to be a whore under circumstance I think will have a long term benefit. Good to have those two different takes on a situation. You can choose which suits your situation, or pull a bit from each.

You didn't screw up though. You just got into a situation you will learn a lot from.

starbirdy66 said:

Now if I do get selected and decide to do at least one book for them to try this; how do I get the page rate up without feeling weird later? Or do I move on and find other opportunies elsewhere? Somebody tell me how to find work doing this.

Anymore ideas here?

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I wouldn't worry about that overly. You might not get any more work from them. Showing you aren't a sap who will work for nothing might scare them off. You might not want to do any more with them. Take it a gig at a time.

This all sounds like a downer, and I don't mean it to. Just worry about the gig now and the future will take care of itself.

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think you underpriced yourself. If that is what you are happy with to start with, then that's all there is to it.

Axler again might disagree, and he'd be totally right from his perspective. And I can see what he means. Some company comes in looking for writers and they pay low-ball rates and that hurts us all. The flip-side is that that might be all the can afford and if you get a book out, you have a credit, earned some money for doing something that is a whole lot easier than digging ditches, and you have a bit of experience that bumps you up the ladder a rung or two. Neither perspective is wrong. Like I said, depends on what YOU want.

And while I have put words in Axler's mouth here (twice), it wasn't in a fight-picking way. Rather trying to look at things myself from a different position. Feel free to expand, clarify or out-right correct me, Alxer.

Actually, it's not so much accepting the low-ball rates that hurts everybody...it's the implication that (a) these people don't know what they're doing and won't realize it until after Star has put a lot of time and effort into the project or

(b) they start out low because they're naturally cheap and will nickel and dime their contributors to the point of madness, pinching every penny until it scream and Star will waste an inordinate amount of time chasing after them to get the pittance she's owed.

In some ways (a) is worse than (b), because a lot of neos who get into comics publishing think they don't have to pay people if they don't publish their work.

It's simple--you do the work, you get paid. It's the publisher's choice whether they use it or not.

It's amazing how many people don't grasp that.

OK, I stand corrected.

And agree with everything Axler said.

Which is why I suggest you get some money in advance.

It's why I suggest that some of that is non-refundable.

You could also propose splitting the payment.

Half in advance. Quarter on delivery of first draft. Quarter on deliver of finished script.

Or thirds.

You might get burned, but you'll at least have something for your trouble.

Hi Starbirdy. I've commissioned several graphic novel adaptations of children's novels. The author was paid between £4K and £5K for between 150-odd and 200-odd pages; that was a flat fee, no royalty deal. I gather that that's an OK deal for comics. The author seems happy, anyhow.

starbirdy66 said:

Moving forward whatever I do; I'm ahead of where I was about six weeks ago and have an idea on the work I'm interested in doing when I'm not pursuing my own creative writing; where I expect to beat the pavement even harder waiting in slush piles across America trying to find the right publisher.

That sounds about right!

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Good attitude.

You will get burned, and projects will fall apart for all kinds of reason. There are lots of jerks around, so know what they are doing and are just out to screw you, some just don't know what they're doing. It's easy to get beaten down by that. If you can keep the vibe you have now, you'll be ahead of the game, no matter what.

Torgo said:

Hi Starbirdy. I've commissioned several graphic novel adaptations of children's novels. The author was paid between £4K and £5K for between 150-odd and 200-odd pages; that was a flat fee, no royalty deal. I gather that that's an OK deal for comics. The author seems happy, anyhow.

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I'll take one of those gigs, please! Salad on the side.

See, told ya I was a whore for gigs!

Torgo said:

that was a flat fee, no royalty deal. I gather that that's an OK deal for comics. The author seems happy, anyhow.

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Adapting a pre-existing work to comics format is a different deal. The writer rarely receives royalties.

Here in the states, there is almost a tradition of people who are marginally connected to publishing (like clerks at Kinko's) who decide they're qualified to produce comics or graphic novels.

Rather than acquire the proper finanical backing first or even do the most cursory market research, they start soliciting work from aspiring creators.

Then, all too often, after a few months of an apparent flurry of activity and big talk, the neo-publishers simply vanish into the haze of broken promises, leaving the creators with no return on their investment of either time, creativity, and sometimes even money.

Starbirdy needs to be aware of that type.

Axler said:

Starbirdy needs to be aware of that type.

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I don't think that's limited to the U.S., or even comics.

Lots of people out there wanna get a bit of the magic without the graft, or the savvy.

Like I said, lots of folks will try and just rip you. Some just don't know what they're doing. Some know just enough to be dangerous.

As they say, Trust, but verify.

Or Verify, THEN trust.

wordmonkey said:

As they say, Trust, but verify.

Or Verify, THEN trust.

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Excellent advice, either way.

It's always tempting to really chase a gig when you're starting and don't have much else to work on.

But don't bend over backwards to get a bad gig, just because it's a gig.

There will be other gigs. And my experience. If it feels hokey, it generally is.

If you wanna do this, then work your own project and try to pitch it to a publisher or publish it yourself.

starbirdy66 said:

All information in detail will be provided to the selected professionals before start of project.
We would like to look at less than 2 weeks time-frame per Story-board .... and Cost is for you to provide."

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Doesn't sound encouraging.

Inasmuch as they're India, I would ask for half of the pay upfront.

But frankly, when companies go these lengths to withhold information on which to make an informed decision, it's been my experience they withhold other things, too.

Like checks.