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icerose
10-03-2007, 01:37 AM
Since release and I recieved a royalty check for a book sold after contract termination. At least the book is finally listed properly as out of print.

Arkie
10-03-2007, 02:39 AM
Since release and I recieved a royalty check for a book sold after contract termination. At least the book is finally listed properly as out of print.


I'm not surprised. Evidently, Ingrams, the wholesaler (or one of the wholesalers), maintains a few stock copies for periodic sales. I think copies may continue to sell by the wholesaler, after the release date, but you are not likely to see any more royalties.

icerose
10-03-2007, 07:28 AM
On the contrary my release letter stated there were 0 copies in stock at any location. I double checked Ingrams myself when I got my release and they didn't have any in stock according to their database. I had to take it out of "available" status myself which happened only a short while ago.

Arkie
10-03-2007, 08:28 AM
On the contrary my release letter stated there were 0 copies in stock at any location. I double checked Ingrams myself when I got my release and they didn't have any in stock according to their database. I had to take it out of "available" status myself which happened only a short while ago.

Icerose:

I have been released for over a year and I just checked Ingrams and did not find my book listed; however, there are other wholesalers. I checked Amazon, B&N and AddALL. AddALL showed my book available from sites in Australia, two places in the UK, Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Hialeah, Florida. Amazon showed five new and used copies on hand, and B&N showed it available for purchase.

I suspect we get different release letters dependent upon whom at PA is in charge on a given day. My letter says nothing about copies in stock.

Saundra Julian
10-03-2007, 01:32 PM
If I'm not mistaken, POD means print on demand...so there should not be any "real" copies available, anywhere.

Arkie
10-03-2007, 06:20 PM
If I'm not mistaken, POD means print on demand...so there should not be any "real" copies available, anywhere.

Saundra:

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand how POD works and when Amazon list 5 new and used I wonder if that is an advertising gimmick.
But think about how few books a PA authors sells and when my book and your book came out Lightning Source was the printer. It is not logical to me that a wholesaler like Ingrams would ask Lightning Source to periodically print single orders even though Ingrams and Lightning Source are both located in Nashville, Tennessee, and too, some of my books were distributed by a company out of New Jersey. I have to believe that wholesalers must keep a few spares somewhere readily available. How else could they guarantee shipping within a short time span?

DaveKuzminski
10-04-2007, 02:48 AM
Yes, it's a gimmick and if enough consumers find themselves being switched to something else instead of what they wanted, the FTC and FCC could come down hard on Amazon for what might be interpreted as bait-and-switch.

benbradley
10-04-2007, 03:16 AM
Icerose:

I have been released for over a year and I just checked Ingrams and did not find my book listed; however, there are other wholesalers. I checked Amazon, B&N and AddALL. AddALL showed my book available from sites in Australia, two places in the UK, Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Hialeah, Florida. Amazon showed five new and used copies on hand, and B&N showed it available for purchase.
...
As stated in some other post in the last day or so, Amazon often shows a book as available until it finds out otherwise (someone orders it, Amazon tries to fulfull the order but can't - THEN they'll change the "Available" tag to "out of print").

The "new and used copies avaialble for $9.50" or whatever price it gives is a different thing. That's from third-party booksellers, who are often individuals (like me, I've sold books on Amazon) who get used books from thrift stores, here-and-there, or even friends with PA books, and eventually list them online at Amazon. Despite use of the word "new", these are all used books (the "new" in this case describes unworn condition, it does NOT mean the book hasn't already been sold at retail), and if you've ever sold or given away even ONE copy of your book, there's always the possibility that it will show up for sale on Amazon, eBay, the local flea market, or any any other place where such an item might be put up for sale. This (the trading of used copies of your book) is perfectly legal, it's "First Sale Doctrine" or some such, and you can't stop it.


Yes, it's a gimmick and if enough consumers find themselves being switched to something else instead of what they wanted, the FTC and FCC could come down hard on Amazon for what might be interpreted as bait-and-switch.
It would be a neat trick to stop Amazon from saying a book (a new, retail copy) is available (from Amazon) when it's not, I'd be pleasantly surprised to see it. I don't quite see it as bait-and-switch - it's just one of several small details Amazon doesn't always keep up with.

DaveKuzminski
10-04-2007, 04:32 AM
It's called truth-in-advertising and a strict FTC ruling could seriously harm Amazon on that issue. They've been known to come down hard on far smaller businesses as well as large for that kind of stuff. All it needs is a change in the political wind or an official needing something newsworthy for something like that to happen fast.

Saundra Julian
10-04-2007, 04:22 PM
There's a used copy of our book selling for 154.00 if anyone's interested. :ROFL:

JulieB
10-04-2007, 05:40 PM
There are some people who think out of print = rare and valuable. I've seen one of mine going for $200. And no, I don't believe it ever sold at that price.

I wouldn't obsess over it - unless you're trying to buy a copy for yourself.

Saundra Julian
10-04-2007, 06:01 PM
Who's obsessing? I thought it was funny!

JulieB
10-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Ah, well. That's completely different, then. Never mind. ;-)

Victory
10-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Please, Please, tell me how you got out of your contract. I've demanded and been denied, turned them in to BBB, been banned from the message boards, PA called me a theif! I've done everything possible, please help me get out! :flag:

Popeyesays
10-10-2007, 05:33 PM
Please, Please, tell me how you got out of your contract. I've demanded and been denied, turned them in to BBB, been banned from the message boards, PA called me a theif! I've done everything possible, please help me get out! :flag:

Send them an e-mail stating that you will no longer buy any of your own book. You will not suggest to others they buy your book. You will do no marketing whatever to sell your book.

Then send the same letter by certified mail.

Follow this up one week later with the same e-mail and snail mail.

Repeat every week until they cut you loose.

Once they realize they will never sell you, your family or friends another copy of the book they will drop the contract

Regards,

Scott

Popeyesays
10-10-2007, 05:41 PM
Copies in stock can be sold without infringing your copyright. They can be remaindered, too. Most contracts delineate "remaindered books" and stipulate that there is no royalty due on them.

Now a PODded book should not have a lot of remainder copies to get rid of. That's the point of Print on Demand technology, there is no "inventory" to speak of, but that doesn't mean there is no inventory at all.

Some publishers will offer the remaindered books to the author first, at or below cost.

Regards,
Scott

icerose
10-11-2007, 01:43 AM
Copies in stock can be sold without infringing your copyright. They can be remaindered, too. Most contracts delineate "remaindered books" and stipulate that there is no royalty due on them.

Now a PODded book should not have a lot of remainder copies to get rid of. That's the point of Print on Demand technology, there is no "inventory" to speak of, but that doesn't mean there is no inventory at all.

Some publishers will offer the remaindered books to the author first, at or below cost.

Regards,
Scott

Didn't happen in my case. I was given a letter stating there were no copies of my book ANYWHERE. They ended the contract but I could still purchase brand new unwrapped copies of my book off Amazon. I recieved a check for one sold last year and now a check for one sold this year.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I just thought the point would be interesting to those still fighting.

As for how I got released, I fought tooth and nail for nearly two years and just when I was about to say "forget it, keep the stupid books" two little releases showed up in the mail. Go figure.