ISBN numbers

kjh7073

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Hi Everyone!

I can't find the thread where I originally read about possibly getting old PA ISBN numbers deleted, so apologies if this is duplicate. I wanted to share a few things I found out.

The email address I found on here was for Cheryl Patrick [email protected] I sent her a nice li'l email and explained the fact that I've been released from my contracts by PA, but that my books were still for sale on BN and Amazon (etc). This is her reply:

We are showing these titles listed as out of print in our database. Because the ISBN numbers belong to PublishAmerica I will need for them to tell me to delete them. Maybe you can email the ISBN Agency at [email protected] and see if they have special rules for this type of situation.

thank you,
Cheryl Patrick
[email protected]
Editorial Specialist - RR Bowker Books in Print


Then, I sent an email to the isbn-san email address that Cheryl provided, and this is the reply I received:

KJ:

You can not delete those ISBN’s. Since they were your previous publisher they assigned their ISBN to your book. It has to stay registered in Books in Print so that if anyone references the book they can still find it. In the book you will put previously published by their company name and their ISBN and below you put your company name and your ISBN.

Thank you,

Heidi Weber
Assistant Editor/US ISBN Agency




Finally, I emailed PA to see if there might be a way to get them to cooperate. I'm still (of course) waiting to hear back from them, and I don't think that they will agree to delete the ISBN numbers since they still own them. But, I wanted to share this info with people in case it all might come in handy.

Peace,
KJ
 

Christine N.

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It doesn't matter if the ISBN's are still attached to that book. If PA keeps it out of print, and it looks as if they are, even if you get another publisher to do a reprint, it's a different edition, so that publisher will assign a NEW ISBN. Heck, you need a new ISBN for a paperback edition of a hardcover release, because the numbers tell you which edition it is.

No biggie. Don't fret over it.
 

Popeyesays

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ISBN numbers, once registered are permanent as aniline dye. It describes the book in print or out of print.

Dealing with Amazon will take time . . . much time . . . . oodles of time . . . . and more time on top of that . . . . and then you'll have to wait awhile.

Regards,
Scott
 

benbradley

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And Amazon won't remove the listing, because they want people to be able to sell their used copies.
Yes, I've sold books through Amazon, that's exactly why they have it, so you can easily list any used book by its ISBN and it shows up under "N used copies for sale starting at $0.01". Even if the listing weren't there, a "Merchant Seller" who does a higher volume (and pays $40 a month for the privelege) can CREATE an Amazon listing for any book so it can be listed for sale.

And my guess is that the only way Amazon would change the "In Print and Available For Sale" part is for someone to actually order it and then Amazon figures out they can't get it. But might PA actually fulfill the order (regardless of any agreement with the author)? Or is PA really in business to sell books EXCLUSIVELY to authors?
 

kjh7073

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Another exchange:

KJ:



We do not get involved. If this is the case then you will need to a lawyer. We just issue the ISBN’s and govern on its proper usage.



Thank you,



Heidi Weber

Assistant Editor/US ISBN Agency



-----Original Message-----
From: KJ Hamilton
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:54 PM
To: isbn-san
Subject: Re: Inquiry



Ms. Weber:



Forgive me, I don't understand. These books are not supposed to be in print. I was released from my contracts with PublishAmerica. They don't own the right to sell my books anymore. However, that is what they're doing; and I won't see any royalties whatsoever. I understand that PA owns these ISBN numbers, but there has to be a way to ensure that they are no longer sold.
 

DaveKuzminski

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... I understand that PA owns these ISBN numbers, but there has to be a way to ensure that they are no longer sold.

Doing so would make it impossible for the used book market to operate. The only real option you have is to watch for NEW book sales. If you see what appears to be one, your best choice of action is to either contact the purchaser or to make a purchase yourself from the same source. Then when you receive the book and it turns out to be new, you take PA to court. Make sure you keep everything from the ordering receipt to the wrapper for the box containing your book. You'll need all of that as evidence along with the termination notice returning your rights. Then provided you've registered your copyright, you can take PA to court and make some big bucks in the process. By the way, don't accept any gag orders when you win. You want PA exposed so they won't do it to you or anyone else again. Otherwise, another writer might not know that PA lost once in court and can then make an even bigger win and possibly make a case for criminal misconduct and send some of PA's owners to prison where they can work for the kinds of wages they pay out in royalties.
 

Voyager

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I don't know much about PA, but I know a lot about Amazon. Thousands and thousands of dollars worth. Just because they say they have it in stock, doesn't mean that they do. The only way to find out for sure is to order it. It's kind of expensive though, if you want me to order it, I have a g/c around here somewhere and I can order two copies and see what happens if you like. Lemme know.
 

kjh7073

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I'm just at a loss for the moment. Part of me just wants to say the hell with it...but the majority of me wants to fight this. This is my work, my words, my feelings. PA doesn't own any part of them anymore. And, I feel a bit like I've hit a brick wall.
 

brianm

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Filing a lawsuit (not arbitration) against PA is time consuming, irritating, and expensive. Those are the reasons why ex-PA authors just throw their hands in the air and walk away. PA knows that's what the average author will do, so they keep on selling books that they no longer have the right to sell.

If they're selling your book without the right to do so, one can only imagine how many other books they are selling and making money from that have also been released.

I don't blame you if you don't file suit. To be honest, it's the most sane thing to do. But I sure would like to see PA in a civil courtroom.
 

DaveKuzminski

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Just remember, if your lawyer takes the effort and time to document how PA is doing that to other authors and not just you, the judgment awarded to you against PA will be substantial. It could be very worth your while even if you only get to the point of accepting a settlement out of court. If you do, please don't accept a gag order. Make it clear that your rights to warn other writers and provide documentation will not be bound and hidden.