When Dead Authors and Nonexistent Authors Write...

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AnneMarble

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Apologies for the length of this. :D

Celia Cyanide and I have been having an in-depth discussion about a dead author who hasn't stopped writing since the day of her death -- V. C. Andrews (TM), author of "Flowers in the Attic" and others. In fact, this case gets really complicated. When did she die? I always thought she died in 1986, but Celia pointed out that she may have actually died in 1979 -- perhaps even before "Flowers in the Attic" itself (her first book) came out. (Talk about the writer's nightmare! Finally, fame and bestsellerdom, but you're already dead. :() I knew the VCA story was complicated, but until Celia brought some of this out, I never knew it was that complicated. And it brings up all sorts of interesting questions for writers.

For years after her death (whenever she really died :rolleyes:), the publisher pretended she was still alive. Then they claimed that they were publishing the manuscripts VCA left behind. Then they claimed the ghostwriter was working from detailed outlines VCA left behind. Finally they gave up and admitted that the ghostwriter (Andrew Neiderman, who has published lots of novels under his own name) was writing the newer books from scratch. Which books were really written from unpublished VCA manuscripts (if any) or from detailed outlines she left behind (if any) is a question.

Of course, V. C. Andrews was not the first deceased author who kept writing after she was dead. (Look at the James Bond books penned by other writers as an example.) L. Ron Hubbard even won an award as "most prolific dead author." ;) But like the Elron books mysteriously writing themselves, something about the way the VCA books have been kept alive is special. It's one thing to read a James Bond book written by John Gardner, and entirely something else to buy a book that says "V. C. Andrews" (or L. Ron Hubbard) on the cover and gives no credit to the ghostwriter.

I think this may have paved the way for more publishers to keep publishing books in their popular authors' universes after those authors died. It seemed to be far less common in the past -- or maybe fans were more likely to be kept in the dark. Agatha Christie published only two novels after her death (both books she had saved to be published upon her death), and there have been no "new" Christie novels mysteriously appearing since then. Today, the "prolific dead author" phenomenon is common. We have new books continuing the legacies of Elliott Roosevelt, Lawrence Sanders, Robert Ludlum, Marion Zimmer Bradley, etc. In some cases, the books are published as "written by" the deceased author. In others, publishers list the name of the real author -- maybe this is based on the prominence of the ghostwriter. Today, these books often come out in hardback and hit the best-seller lists. I wonder how many fans realize these authors are dead, or if it really matters as long as they can keep reading "Bourne" books. Heck, today authors don't have to be dead to have ghostwriters co-writing their books. (Tom Clancy and James Patterson anyone?)

But to me, there's something special about the V. C. Andrews phenomenon. It sounds like a plot from one of her novels, full of mysterious secrets. Like Elron, there are even questions about the real date of V. C. Andrews' death. What little biographical information there is seems contradictory -- with one source claiming that the books were autobiographical, another claiming they were based on her family's history, and yet another claiming they were totally made up.

As a writer, what do you think of this? Do you want somebody to keep publishing novels under your name after your death? And if not, how do you prevent it? On the other hand, having your work "kept alive" has its positive sides. The continued work will support your families, and it's a sign that your fans still love you. (And VCA fans are an especially serious and devoted type of fan indeed.) And if new books keep coming out under your name after you die, your original work is more likely to be kept in print -- this is good both for your heirs and for your fans. Any of us can name authors whose books pretty much disappeared from their shelves the moment they died (such as fantasy author Robert Adams).

On the other hand, there's the idea that fans are getting ripped off by buying books they think are by you, only to get a ghostwritten book. Even if they know the books are ghostwritten, they're hoping it will live up to your work, and in many cases, it will be at best a pale shadow if. But in the case of VCA, the lines are so blurry that we're not sure which books the ghostwriter really wrote. It's possible he actually wrote all but the first book, and he certainly wrote some of the most popular books. In the case of Neiderman, things get even stickier when you see some of the lawsuits and other complications. (The editor of the V. C. Andrews book was charging Neiderman, the ghostwriter, a fee?! :eek: There must be something more to this!)

Also, what about the ghostwriters? Some of them get cover credit, but like Andrew Neiderman, not all of them get that privilege. In the case of Neiderman, he gets the blame for the bad books and rarely gets the praise for the better ones. One of the most recent "Ludlum" novels was written by Eric Van Lustbader -- someone capable of writing a best-selling thriller on his own. Lustbader's fans probably hate seeing him "waste his talents" writing a Ludlum book when they want to see new Lustbader books instead. Many think some ghostwriters are wasting their talents writing in someone else's pastures. On the other hand, many writers are grateful for the work.

But in fact, going back to V. C. Andrews, she may not have even existed, leading to the question of... If she never lived, who was she? :Wha:

Manufactured authors such as house names have long been a part of publishing, even in the days of penny dreadfuls. Nick Carter was one of the most prolific. In fact, house names are common with men's adventure and adult Western series. There have been cases of a few fictional characters (such as soap opera characters) have "published" novels. But manufactured authors who come with biographies, birth dates, and author photos -- and who even give interviews -- are pretty rare. The only other case I can think of is the "housewife" who was promoted as the "author" of Naked Came the Stranger, which later turned out to have been written by several reporters working together. That housewife was actually an actress hired to play the part of the housewife/author.
What do you think about creating an author out of whole cloth? Would you ghostwrite books for a fictional author? Would you create a fictional author to pen your own work?

By the way, here are a couple of blog entries about the prolific dead author question:
http://blog.stephenleary.com/2006/07/who-is-writing-robert-ludlums-books.html

http://blog.stephenleary.com/2007/04/ludlum-betrayal.html

Here's an article about ghostwriting:
http://www.caslon.com.au/ghostingnote.htm
 

Tirjasdyn

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She died in 86. The first novel that AN wrote in her name was Dawn. He lifted whole scenes from flowers in the Attic to write it. The sibling rape scene is the same word for word.

This hardly paved the way for anything...the real juggernaut in this ghostwriter category is the Nancy Drew / Hard Boys machine. It was and in someways still is a business that employed hundreds of writers over the years.

Zimmer Bradley is her own special genre...there have been rumors that she NEVER wrote the books she had published under her name...but that she bought manuscripts.
 

AnneMarble

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She died in 86. The first novel that AN wrote in her name was Dawn. He lifted whole scenes from flowers in the Attic to write it. The sibling rape scene is the same word for word.
I never made it to Dawn. I think My Sweet Audrina broke me. ;)

This hardly paved the way for anything...the real juggernaut in this ghostwriter category is the Nancy Drew / Hard Boys machine. It was and in someways still is a business that employed hundreds of writers over the years.
Oh how could I forget Carolyn Keene?! Come to think of it, didn't they hae a woman who used to give interviews now and then? But she wasn't the actual writer. I remember reading about her death. And years later, reading that the person who really wrote many of the books had died.

Zimmer Bradley is her own special genre...there have been rumors that she NEVER wrote the books she had published under her name...but that she bought manuscripts.
Wow, that's bizarre.
 

Tirjasdyn

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I never made it to Dawn. I think My Sweet Audrina broke me. ;)


Oh how could I forget Carolyn Keene?! Come to think of it, didn't they hae a woman who used to give interviews now and then? But she wasn't the actual writer. I remember reading about her death. And years later, reading that the person who really wrote many of the books had died.


Wow, that's bizarre.


God...after My Sweet Audrina I vowed never to pay money for a VC book again. My mother still picks them up though and her books become my books after she's done. Dawn was a big deal though...it was a big book in the high school I went to we all talked about how we thought she was dead etc. The book wasn't bad but it then none of her books were ever "good".

A book just came out about the whole Nancy Drew deal. They've had lots of authors.
 

CheshireCat

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Do you want somebody to keep publishing novels under your name after your death? And if not, how do you prevent it?

Absolutely not. Any work unfinished at my death is to be destroyed, and my existing work, though it may of course be reprinted, may not be changed by anyone, including my heirs, for the length of copyright. If anything happens to me in the middle of a project which my publisher has already paid for in whole or in part, the project is cancelled and any monies advanced will be repaid out of my estate.

It's spelled out in my estate documents.

 

AnneMarble

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God...after My Sweet Audrina I vowed never to pay money for a VC book again.
That story's "twist" both was predictable and yet made no sense at the same time. A really difficult combination to pull off. :) It's the only standalone novel, I think. Maybe that's because they couldn't find any more characters stupid enough to carry off a sequel. :D

My mother still picks them up though and her books become my books after she's done. Dawn was a big deal though...it was a big book in the high school I went to we all talked about how we thought she was dead etc. The book wasn't bad but it then none of her books were ever "good".
True. I reread Flowers some months ago. I found that parts of it were worse than I remembered but some parts were better than I remembered. (Mostly some of the description.)

A book just came out about the whole Nancy Drew deal. They've had lots of authors.
Oodles. The one I was thinking of was Mildred Wirt Benson, who some considered to be the "real" Carolyn Keene because she wrote the first 22 (!) Nancy Drew books. I remember that when I was growing up, Harriet Adams, the daughter of the owner, was sort of passed off as Carolyn Keene, although I later she learned she was but a drop in the bucket. Probably a very good businesswoman, though. :D

Absolutely not. Any work unfinished at my death is to be destroyed, and my existing work, though it may of course be reprinted, may not be changed by anyone, including my heirs, for the length of copyright. If anything happens to me in the middle of a project which my publisher has already paid for in whole or in part, the project is cancelled and any monies advanced will be repaid out of my estate.

It's spelled out in my estate documents.
Hmm, that's a good idea and one way to prevent that from happening.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Dead

Sigh. Where do people get this stuff? Andrews died in '86, and anything else is crap. People seem to forget that Andrews was a real person, people knew her, people talked to her, people interviewed her, people saw her. I talked to her.

And, no, her publisher did not pretend she was still alive. They simply continued using her name, which is not at all uncommon. Her death and funeral were not a secret at any point. Jeeze, was no one here actually alive when Andrews was?

There's so much bullshit out about her that it makes me wonder why anyone would trust the internet for anything.

The V. C. Andrews story is not complicated. It's only the silly myths that are made up by people with too much time on their hands that are complicated.

Nor are house names secret. Nor are they really creating an author. It's just an easy way of writing a throwaway series of books that have numerous authors. It is NOT done to create an author, but to make it easy for readers to find a specific series of books.

Ghostwriters? I am a ghostwriter. Or have been. It's not a gig I like, but it pays the bills, and there's nothing at all wrong with it. Or with dead writers.

I'll let you all in on a secret that writers, particularly new writers, won't like. Writing is not about the writer, it's about the reader. Writers have a narcissistic attachment to the writing, and to the byline. Readers do not.

As long as the book is entertaining, readers don't give a damn who wrote it, or why.
 

Soccer Mom

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There are many franchise names and series, including Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys and of course the Boxcar Children.

But those allegations of the ghostwriter paying the editor for her contributions were...odd. Never heard anything like that before.
 

CheshireCat

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As long as the book is entertaining, readers don't give a damn who wrote it, or why.

Yeah, pretty much. Though there always seems to be that (hopefully) small percentage of readers who Want To Know All About the Author of whatever book or books they enjoy.

They can be a bit obsessive at times.

:eek:
 

Will Lavender

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Moving off-topic now...

Anybody read Pin by Andrew Niederman? Creepy book. I think it was turned into a movie, but don't quote me on that.
 

BenPanced

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Details for Pin.

I read that book a few times in high school. I still have a copy and keep thinking I need to pick it up.

Actually, I don't think the publishers ever pretended V. C. Andrews was still alive. I remember seeing the disclaimer in the front of the books that came out after Andrews had passed away.
 

AnneMarble

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Sigh. Where do people get this stuff? Andrews died in '86, and anything else is crap. People seem to forget that Andrews was a real person, people knew her, people talked to her, people interviewed her, people saw her. I talked to her.

And, no, her publisher did not pretend she was still alive. They simply continued using her name, which is not at all uncommon. Her death and funeral were not a secret at any point. Jeeze, was no one here actually alive when Andrews was?
I was, but I'm pretty sure the only personal information I ever saw during that time was one interview she did. Maybe the People magazine interview. Oh, I'd forgotten about the Douglas Winter interview :e2smack: Somehow I can't imagine he'd interview a dead person. He'd need a monkey's paw for that, and most people in the horror field know better than to handle those.

There's so much bullshit out about her that it makes me wonder why anyone would trust the internet for anything.
But sometimes the bullshit is more fun. :D

Nor are house names secret. Nor are they really creating an author. It's just an easy way of writing a throwaway series of books that have numerous authors. It is NOT done to create an author, but to make it easy for readers to find a specific series of books.
Yeah, it would be hard to market the Executioner novels if one of them were shelved under N for Mike Newton, the next one was shelved under R for Ron Renaud, etc. :D But I think publishers understand that readers are divided among those who think the house name is real, those who don't care, and those who know about the real authors. Whether or not the identities of the authors can be revealed is another thing, and might depend on the contract, etc. Plenty of ghostwriters aren't allowed to admit to the work -- so that part of it is a secret.

Ghostwriters? I am a ghostwriter. Or have been. It's not a gig I like, but it pays the bills, and there's nothing at all wrong with it. Or with dead writers.
I don't really have a problem with ghostwriters. When an actor writes a diet book or a mystery novel, I realize that in almost all cases, he didn't actually write it. In fact, in most cases, I hope he didn't write it. ;) I'd rather leave the writing to the professionals.

There are times when ghostwriting gets a little skeezy -- for example, when a published author hires a ghostwriter to live up to a contract. Wasn't there a ghostwriting scandal in the 1980s? I'm thinking of the Sylvie Sommerfield case, I think. Someone noticed that one of her books was too close to a Jan Westcott novel, and Sommerfield admitted that she had hired a ghostwriter to live up to her contract. But that was done without the publisher's knowledge, and it resulted in plagiarism, so that was another thing entirely.

I'll let you all in on a secret that writers, particularly new writers, won't like. Writing is not about the writer, it's about the reader. Writers have a narcissistic attachment to the writing, and to the byline. Readers do not.

As long as the book is entertaining, readers don't give a damn who wrote it, or why.
True. But then you end up with readers who wonder why it was such a big deal when Janet Dailey plagiarized from Nora Roberts because they liked Janet Dailey's book so much better. :rolleyes: Oh, well. Kensington is giving them more Janet Dailey books, so they're happy.

...But those allegations of the ghostwriter paying the editor for her contributions were...odd. Never heard anything like that before.
I think I read about it in Publishers Weekly close to the time when it first happened. I'm sure there's more to that story than meets the eye.

Well...

*checks to see if the front door is locked*
Now where did I put that monkey's paw?
:scared:

Anybody read Pin by Andrew Niederman? Creepy book. I think it was turned into a movie, but don't quote me on that.
It was, although I'll bet the book was better -- and the original cover was cool. :D I didn't read Pin, but I read Neiderman's Brainchild. Remember that Simpsons episode where Lisa got upset and used Bart as her science fair experiment? Brainchild is a really really dark version of that plot with a truly nasty smart girl. I wonder how the book would hold up if I read it today...
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
As a writer, what do you think of this? Do you want somebody to keep publishing novels under your name after your death?

No. Absolutely not. My name is my name. Publishing books that I've written or started posthumously, not a problem with. Other authors publishing books set in my universes is something I'd have to trust my estate and my fans to decide. Right now, at this point in my life and career, it's something I'm ambiguous about. It's something I haven't quite decided what I think about.
 

pepperlandgirl

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As a writer, what do you think of this? Do you want somebody to keep publishing novels under your name after your death?

What do I care? I won't be pining for the fjords, I'll be dead. Hell, if they want to stuff my corpse and wheel me around the country on promotional tours, that'll be fine with me. If it sells books, they can even hire a "psychic" and hold seances where I can speak to my fans. It won't bother me a bit. Because I'll be dead.
 

Vincent

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What do I care? I won't be pining for the fjords, I'll be dead. Hell, if they want to stuff my corpse and wheel me around the country on promotional tours, that'll be fine with me. If it sells books, they can even hire a "psychic" and hold seances where I can speak to my fans. It won't bother me a bit. Because I'll be dead.

Maybe they can run a limited edition print of your books, bound in your own skin.
 

pepperlandgirl

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Hmmm. Morbid, and yet, oddly compelling.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Sigh. Where do people get this stuff? Andrews died in '86, and anything else is crap. People seem to forget that Andrews was a real person, people knew her, people talked to her, people interviewed her, people saw her. I talked to her.

And, no, her publisher did not pretend she was still alive. They simply continued using her name, which is not at all uncommon. Her death and funeral were not a secret at any point. Jeeze, was no one here actually alive when Andrews was?

I was. And I don't remember anyone mentioning her death until Dawn was released, and that was in 1990. People in my class were actually reading the books released between 1986 and 1990 and had no idea she was dead. The funeral probably wasn't a secret, but many readers didn't know about it, because the books didn't mention it. Dawn was the first book to do so. And according to The Complete VC Andrews, Neiderman will not give the details surrounding the books, which ones he wrote, which ones had outlines, which ones were published posthumously, and which ones he finished, although he does claim there were no unfinished manuscripts.

There's so much bullshit out about her that it makes me wonder why anyone would trust the internet for anything.

I don't really trust anything I read about her on the internet.

Ghostwriters? I am a ghostwriter. Or have been. It's not a gig I like, but it pays the bills, and there's nothing at all wrong with it. Or with dead writers.

Who said there was anything wrong with ghostwriters?
 

AnneMarble

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I was. And I don't remember anyone mentioning her death until Dawn was released, and that was in 1990.
Me, neither. But I'm pretty sure I wasn't reading them by then anyway. I think the last one I remember reading was My Sweet Audrina. By then, I was probably in college or maybe in my first job.

People in my class were actually reading the books released between 1986 and 1990 and had no idea she was dead. The funeral probably wasn't a secret, but many readers didn't know about it, because the books didn't mention it. Dawn was the first book to do so.
I might have read about it in a magazine, but again, probably Writer's Digest or something like that. I don't remember mentioning it to other fans. I read Flowers in the Attic probably when it first came out, because everybody was talking about it. But by the time of her death, I wasn't going to high school anymore.

And according to The Complete VC Andrews, Neiderman will not give the details surrounding the books, which ones he wrote, which ones had outlines, which ones were published posthumously, and which ones he finished, although he does claim there were no unfinished manuscripts.
I wouldn't be surprised. The poor woman was dying of cancer, so I'm sure it would have been very hard for her to concentrate on writing books while she was deathly ill. I had a treatable uterine cancer a few years back, and while recovering from the hysterectomy, all I could do was edit an existing manuscript, and walk around and around as the doctor ordered, (thank God for CD players and my Russell Oberlin CDs). I couldn't really concentrate on reading. And I wasn't even that sick!

I don't really trust anything I read about her on the internet.
Me, neither. But it's still fun to read. :D

Who said there was anything wrong with ghostwriters?
The one who comes out of that well is really scary.

Oh, wait... That's a ghost. Never mind.
 

JamieFord

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For some reason having a dead writer penned by a ghostwriter doesn't bother me as much as a live "writer" passing stuff off as his own. Like William Shatner novels...
 
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