Unspoken rules of exclusivity...

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roskoebaby

I can't find information on exclusivity anywhere. If I sent out 3 queries. Someone asked for a parital, non-exclusive. Then one asked for the partial with exclusive. I agreed, but said that I had other partials out. Then the 3rd asked for a full. Now, does the 3rd count? Can I still send it because I queried before I agreed to the exclusive? Can I break the rules sometimes??

Thanks everyone!
 

Shady Lane

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Um....hmm. Technically, I think you can't send the full out now.

For future reference, I'd suggest NEVER accepting an exclusive read on a partial. On a full, maybe, but a partial?? There's too high a risk of something like this happening, and the odds of getting representation out of the exclusive aren't good enough.

Sorry to be such a downer. :(
 

Rolling Thunder

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I'm probably going to get slapped for this...I say, send the full out. Don't pass up an opportunity. You're competing for an agent, not vice-versa.

If anyone disagrees, shout out.
 

roskoebaby

I'm probably going to get slapped for this...I say, send the full out. Don't pass up an opportunity. You're competing for an agent, not vice-versa.

If anyone disagrees, shout out.

I won't slap you. haha. I said that I had others out. I know it was on my scout's honor and all. But can't the full count as other's out? I just said I wouldn't query anyone else. I'm just wondering for future reference. Love you guys :)
 

Shady Lane

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Oh, I'd definitely send the full anyway. It's a dog-eat-dog world. I'm just saying.
 

Provrb1810meggy

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See, that's why instead of offering to not query anyone else, you should offer to talk to them before accepting any offer of representation!

Anyway, I'm not sure what to tell you. How long is the exclusive?
 

roskoebaby

Two weeks. Then another agent, who I queried last week, asked for the full. That was the one I dont' whether or not to send it to. I'm just gonna.
 
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Shady Lane

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Go for it.

I can't believe you don't have an agent yet, ya crazy girl...
 

roskoebaby

Even though I'm sending it, now when someone searches 'exclusive', this thread should come up. All of our infinite wisdom. haha.
 

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There are other threads about exclusivity somewhere.
 

Momento Mori

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To quote the divine Miss Snark: "Exclusives suck".

How long did you agree to give Agent 2 an exclusive for? If it's indefinite, then I say definitely send the full to Agent 3 (because it's hutzpah to ask for an indefinite exclusive and, IMHO, completely unreasonable). If it's for a month, then I wouldn't say anything to Agent 3, wait for the month to expire and then send out the full as requested. If you have a 3 month exclusive then I'm not sure ... My gut tells me you'd need to tell Agent 3 that and ask if they still want to see the full at the end of it, but I'm sure others will differ.

None of this applies to Agent 1, who should not be subject to the exclusivity agreement.

MM
 

Jimmer

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A very smart lady once told me this:

Sending out queries is like flirting.

Sending out a requested partial is like dating.

Sending out a requested full is like going steady.

Signing a contract is like getting engaged.

Dating is rarely totally exclusive. Seeing someone else when going steady is cheating. Having a lover on the side when engaged is morally wrong. Messing around when married is despicable.

Sure the process is lengthy. If the editor/agent is willing to commit the time to judge your partial or full why shouldn't you be expected to honor his commitment in return? I think the safest thing is to allow exclusivity but only for a reasonable time period. In other words, I might say I agree to let you have my manuscript exclusively for 3 months, after which time I will share it it with other interested publishers. An open ended exclusivitity is counterproductive.
 

reenkam

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A very smart lady once told me this:

Sending out queries is like flirting.

Sending out a requested partial is like dating.

Sending out a requested full is like going steady.

Signing a contract is like getting engaged.

Dating is rarely totally exclusive. Seeing someone else when going steady is cheating. Having a lover on the side when engaged is morally wrong. Messing around when married is despicable.

Wouldn't this imply that you shouldn't have more than one full out at a time? And that having a full out with partials out is a bad idea...
 

Jimmer

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Wouldn't this imply that you shouldn't have more than one full out at a time? And that having a full out with partials out is a bad idea...

That's precisely what it implies. I think, though, it's a way of seeing things from the publisher's viewpoint.

If we knew that a publisher requesting a full actually carefully read the entire manuscript and weighed its merits meticulously, then I don't think it would be asking too much to allow exclusivity. After all, what I just suggested is quite a commitment on their part. However, we all know that many (most?) times, that full ms doesn't get such a dedicated study. To allow exclusivity when the first reader is barely out of college and spends no more than 3 minutes judging your work is not fair. In a perfect world, the full request would only come from genuinely interested readers (or actual editors!) who could guarantee you a decent evalutaion of strengths and weaknesses. We'd probably all be happy to offer an exclsuive under those terms. The problem is, we rarely get detailed feedback on full ms requests. And we never really know how much time was actually spent evaluating our work. That's the primary reason why so many of us are reluctant to grant exclusivity.

It's a personal decision. In my experience, when an editor reads a full and is interested, they have alway called to check on the ms's availability before passing it on to other editors. I think they're all pretty used to writers submitting to several houses at the same time. They know. They don't like it and they'd prefer it didn't happen but it's their own bed that they've made. They've got to sleep in their own evaluation process bed that takes months to make.

I may decide to go steady with someone even though I have dated others before. Once I've made the decision to go steady though, I won't date others during that time. If one of my old dates resurfaces with an interesting proposition...I'll usually drag my feet until I see how my steady is working out. I'm happy and excited when someone asks for a full. I want them to read it and like it. I'll give them 3 months to do it. That's just my feeling.
 

Julie Worth

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A very smart lady once told me this:

Sending out queries is like flirting.

Sending out a requested partial is like dating.

Sending out a requested full is like going steady.

Signing a contract is like getting engaged.

If you want that analogy to work, you need to bump everything down a step:

Sending out queries is like cold calling.

Sending out a requested partial is like flirting.

Sending out a requested full is like dating.

Signing a contract with an agent is like going steady.

Signing a contract with a publisher is like getting engaged.
 

Jimmer

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If you want that analogy to work, you need to bump everything down a step:

Sending out queries is like cold calling.

Sending out a requested partial is like flirting.

Sending out a requested full is like dating.

Signing a contract with an agent is like going steady.

Signing a contract with a publisher is like getting engaged.

Ha! I like your way better! (Does anyone cold call possible dates??) I still don't think it's wise to be too free with fulls though. Just set time limits.

Jimmer
 

Momento Mori

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Jimmer:
I think the safest thing is to allow exclusivity but only for a reasonable time period. In other words, I might say I agree to let you have my manuscript exclusively for 3 months, after which time I will share it it with other interested publishers. An open ended exclusivitity is counterproductive.

Actually, the safest thing to do is not to agree to an exclusive full stop. An exclusive on a partial or a full isn't anything other than an attempt by an agent/editor to hedge their bets. They think there's something in the manuscript or partial that they like but they're not sure but at the same time they don't want to risk another agent/editor sneaking it out from underneath them. That's all to their benefit but from where an author is sitting, there's no guarantee that their manuscript is going to be taken up and instead they're stuck waiting around for however long (usually, 3 months but sometimes even longer). Like you said, agents know that people simultaneously submit, they know how the market operates and personally, I think that exclusives play on the hopes of authors to their detriment - e.g. if you're shopping a well-written pirate novel at a time when agents and publishers are gagging for pirate novels, then tying yourself to one agent could mean that by the time the exclusivity period comes to an end, you've missed the boat* on how the market's feeling.

Jimmer:
In a perfect world, the full request would only come from genuinely interested readers (or actual editors!) who could guarantee you a decent evalutaion of strengths and weaknesses. We'd probably all be happy to offer an exclsuive under those terms.

Apologies for disagreeing again, but I don't want a decent evaluation of strengths and weaknesses of my manuscript - I want representation or a publishing contract. If an agent or editor comes back with a personalised rejection, then I'll consider what's said and make adjustments, but I'm not going to an agent or publisher with a view to rejection, I'm going because it's the first step in my oh-so-shiny literary career. If my dream agent said he wanted an exclusive but he was 90% certain he was going to sign me, then I'd probably be tempted to give it to him (depending on the time period), but if he's not making any promises along those lines, I'm probably better off querying elsewhere.

MM

* Pun fully intended - je ne regrette rien!
 

Julie Worth

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An agent's take on exclusivity

From another thread, here are agent Ben Salmon's thoughts on granting exclusivity:

Ben Salmon said:
DocuMania said:
Question for Ben:

How to handle multiple submissions?

It's clear that agents and editors are overwhelmed by submissions, be they queries, partials, or complete manuscripts. The waiting time for a response is getting longer and longer, yet most of the agents/publishers I've looked into declare that they will not entertain simultaneous submissions.

I disagree with the premise (though acknowledge that you qualified it with "I've looked into"). All the editors I submit to expect a project to be submitted simultaneously. And many of the agents I know don't ask for exclusive submissions. And you can always say "no" to an agent who asks for one (what the consequence would be, I don't know entirely, since I'm not in the mindset of asking for exclusivity. But I do know that it's expected you'd say no if you already have another agent looking at the ms).

DocuMania said:
If that's the case, the most I can hope for is to go a complete cycle 1-3 times a YEAR, assuming rejection, which is statistically likely for a first novel.

So: As a writer, it makes sense to submit to more than one person/publisher at a time. Given the rejection percentage, multiple submissions lose me only postage. However, when I finally get someone who likes my work and wants to buy or represent it, then I have the to face the fact I've violated the "no multiple submissions" request.

By doing so, have I ruined my chances? Or, if I play square up front and say in a query that I am submitting to more than one entity, should I expect instant rejection?

What do you recommend as a strategy for this conundrum?

Thank you.

I'm having trouble with this since I disagree with the premise. Find agents and editors who don't demand exclusivity. As for whether you should be upfront or try to slip around the rules a bit, I'll let you be the judge. That's a personal decision. It could be said, for the places that just have on their websites that they don't want simultaneous submissions, that since those rules aren't exactly fair, you don't have to play exactly fair. Up to you. But if someone asks you upfront for exclusivity and you say yes, then you owe it to them.
 
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Julie Worth

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Though DocuMania is using "multiple submissions" and "simultaneous submissions" interchangeably, these are actually different things. Sending the same MS to different agents is simultaneous submission, while sending different MSS to one agent is multiple submission.
 

roskoebaby

Thanks Julie! I couldn't find any other threads and everyone here has been very informative! You're all super smart :)
 
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Jimmer

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This debate shall continue forever because it's largely an individual decision. No one HAS to do what they say or what they're told. You can do whatever you like...as long as you feel good about it personally.

To each his own.

Best,
Jimmer
 
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Jimmer

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Apologies for disagreeing again, but I don't want a decent evaluation of strengths and weaknesses of my manuscript - I want representation or a publishing contract. If an agent or editor comes back with a personalised rejection, then I'll consider what's said and make adjustments, but I'm not going to an agent or publisher with a view to rejection, I'm going because it's the first step in my oh-so-shiny literary career.
quote]

MM,

If you think you will send in a perfect ms into an agent/publisher and that agent/publisher will love your writing and send you a contract you are setting yourself up for a let down. In the best of circumstances you will write the best novel you can write and, as a first time unknown author with no readership and minimal chance to make any profit for a publisher (unless your ms is particularly unique in some fabulous way), then if your ms is amazing enough to find its way to an editor's desk and if that editor is in just the right mood to be patient enough to appreciate what you've written, they might write back and say something like...we like your novel but we wonder if you might consider changing this and this and this, and we also wonder if you thought about adding this and this and this and we also believe your novel might be stronger if you do this and this and this and delete this, this, and this. This is not a rejection but an invitation to revise and resubmit. This is the letter you should be praying for each night before you go to bed.

No one (almost no one) gets an acceptance letter off an initial submission. You will edit that book under the guidance of an agent or editor until it barely resembles what you began writing months earlier.

I never mentioned anything about a personalized rejection. I mentioned an evaluation of strengths and weaknesses...a foot in the door...a chance to slip through the slush and into the lime light. A chance to revise and resubmit. The editors that make such requests want to find out if they can work with you and if you can revise like a professional. They will be most unlikely to offer an advance before they know that much. If you knew you would receive this sort of reaction from a requested full ms submission, then I think a limited exclusive is warranted.

Jimmer
 

Momento Mori

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Jimmer, I think that you've misunderstood what I'm saying and you're conflating the submission process to agents with the submission process to editors, when there are subtle differences as to what you can reasonably expect.

My original comment was in response to this:

Jimmer:
In a perfect world, the full request would only come from genuinely interested readers (or actual editors!) who could guarantee you a decent evalutaion of strengths and weaknesses. We'd probably all be happy to offer an exclsuive under those terms.

Focusing in on submission to agents for a moment, when you are submitting a manuscript to an agent, you are looking for a yes or a no. That yes or no may come as follows:

1. no without suggestions or further comment - in which case, you pick yourself up and move on to the next agent.

2. no with suggestions - the suggestions are gravy and any author who totally disregards such comments is a fool (IMSHO), but it's still a no and you still have to pick yourself up and move on.

3. yes without suggestions - this does happen as I know of two authors represented by respected agents whose manuscripts were accepted and then shopped and sold without comments or amendments suggested by the agent.

4. yes with suggestions, in which case you decide whether you're prepared to make those revisions and you go on and sign the contract (or don't sign the contract if you don't want to make those changes). Again, I know an author who's just signed with an agent on this basis - both signed the contract acknowledging that amendments needed to be made, the author made them and the manuscript was shopped and sold.

The situation is slightly different to when you're submitting to editors (whether through an agent or directly) because from what I know (and anyone with different experience is free to step in) the yes without suggestions scenario I set out above is really rare. Certainly the authors I know with sales have all had to make amendments based on editors comments (which is part and parcel of the publishing business) and from reading agent blogs, it is not uncommon for an editor to say no but offer to take another look if certain amendments are made (sometimes this results in a sale, sometimes not).

Jimmer:
If you think you will send in a perfect ms into an agent/publisher and that agent/publisher will love your writing and send you a contract you are setting yourself up for a let down.

Any process whereby you are submitting something for a third party to make a decision on is an invitation to be let down. I think we all go into that knowing we're going to get a yes or a no and hoping that the work and craftsmanship we've put into our work is good enough to get a yes (whether qualified or unqualified).

Jimmer:
No one (almost no one) gets an acceptance letter off an initial submission.

I disagree.

Jimmer:
You will edit that book under the guidance of an agent or editor until it barely resembles what you began writing months earlier.

I don't dispute that at all. However, the agent or editor will accept and contract with you on the basis of that initial manuscript.

Jimmer:
I mentioned an evaluation of strengths and weaknesses...a foot in the door...a chance to slip through the slush and into the lime light. A chance to revise and resubmit. The editors that make such requests want to find out if they can work with you and if you can revise like a professional. They will be most unlikely to offer an advance before they know that much. If you knew you would receive this sort of reaction from a requested full ms submission, then I think a limited exclusive is warranted.

An exclusive is not being asked for so that an agent can find out if they can work with you. An exclusive is asked for so that the agent knows that no-one else is reading that manuscript. They haven't made a judgment on that manuscript. They're not promising to make comments on that manuscript. In fact they're not even promising to read all of that manuscript. They're simply trying to make sure that no one else in the market is looking at that manuscript at that time. You could sign an exclusive, wait 3 months and still get a straight, unqualified, no at the end of it.

Now it could be that the agent making the request is your Number 1 All Time Must Have Agent. In which case, you might think that it's worth taking that chance. But you should be under no mistake that you are taking a chance because there is absolutely no risk at all from the agent's side of this. He's not the one making a promise - you are. And the simple truth is, you don't know what's going to happen at the end of it.

You mention editors in the same context of exclusives. I don't know whether publishing editors ask for exclusives on manuscripts before making a decision whether to buy a book - it's certainly not something I've heard of before so perhaps someone else can chime in. I know that an editor may want further changes before making a decision on whether to buy (in which case, that's a matter for you and your agent (if relevant) to decide and obviously editors will usually want changes after they buy, but I've never come across an editor who wants an exclusive as a condition to making a decision.

MM
 
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bethany

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I don't know how to do those individual quotes (all I ever get is the whole thing) so I'll just comment on the above discussion in my limited experience, and then wander off to read something else.....

I can only speak for myself and my two critique partners. Two of the three of us signed with agents prior to doing any revision, one of us was asked (by her number one dream agent) to do some work to the manuscript and then signed. All three of us sold the manuscripts that our agents sent out.

In my case all revisions came after contracts. Before I signed my agent said she had some ideas for the manuscript, but they weren't a stipulation before the contract. Of course my editor wanted revisions, that's what she does.

As far as editors and exclusives, my understanding is that an agent may give an editor an exclusive read on something in the case that they think they have a perfect match, but I've never heard that editor require exclusive subs from agents. Of course my knowledge is small and mostly gleaned from blogs, just like everyone elses.
 
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