Writers Cafe

Writer2011 · Sep 16, 2007

**Not sure if this post should go here..but if not, please put it in the correct place**

Don't know if any of you have heard of writers cafe but it's a site pretty much like this..you post your writing and have it critiqued..but you earn points for every critique you submit.

Anyway, I posted the first chapter of a FIRST draft (not too worried about grammar at this point) I'm basically working on the story, character development, ect... I always edit after i'm done.

Well someone critiqued my first chapter and said I should go to a community college and take a refresher course on writing..can you believe that? I told her that in college I took writing intensive classes and didn't fail a single paper or class for that matter. I know my grammar isn't perfcet (whose is)..ohhh it made me so mad

Maryn · Sep 17, 2007

aspiring, we're going to butt heads in a second. Here, wear this helmet.

I don't see any point in posting work for feedback unless and until you've made it as good as you possibly can. It should be spelled and punctuated perfectly, its grammar gone over with care, the verbs examined, adverbs eliminated, and every other mechanical thing you know to do.

Why? Because if you don't, you waste both your time and your critic's by having them correct your mistakes instead of turning a critical eye on your story, character development, pacing, tension, etc.

Now give me back my helmet. Some days at AW, I need it over and over.

Maryn, hard-headed

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

Not too worried about grammar!

Then don't post it for others to read.

ETA: Yes, I can believe someone would say that...I would have said it too. You offer your work for critique only AFTER you believe it to be perfect.

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

Well maybe for you it matters..but on the first draft all I want to do is get it written and then worry about grammar.

I find it very offensive from what you said.

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

an addendum

I've seen a lot of folks post on here and where they had it critiqued and suggestions made. I wasn't so upset about what she said but the going back to school thing was VERY offensive.

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

Maryn said:
aspiring, we're going to butt heads in a second. Here, wear this helmet.

I don't see any point in posting work for feedback unless and until you've made it as good as you possibly can. It should be spelled and punctuated perfectly, its grammar gone over with care, the verbs examined, adverbs eliminated, and every other mechanical thing you know to do.

Why? Because if you don't, you waste both your time and your critic's by having them correct your mistakes instead of turning a critical eye on your story, character development, pacing, tension, etc.

Now give me back my helmet. Some days at AW, I need it over and over.

Maryn, hard-headed

Everyone has different ways of writing..The ONLY reason why I posted was to get feedback on whether the story worked well or not. I wasn't upset by the suggestions but the going back to school was VERY offensive.

I've got a college degree and we had to turn in first drafts of papers to professors and they NEVER said anything like that.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

that's fine...get it done...but you shouldn't be posting a first draft for others to critique. I think you missed the point. Edit until it is sharp...and then ask for critique. Otherwise, you are wasting the time of the critiquer. I can't really worry about offending you. You don't worry about offending your critiquers. I just wanted to suggest that you don't offer up a first draft for critique...that's not what it's about.

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

KTC said:
Not too worried about grammar!

Then don't post it for others to read.

ETA: Yes, I can believe someone would say that...I would have said it too. You offer your work for critique only AFTER you believe it to be perfect.

Tell that to folks who post their stories and haven't edited it...Besides no one is going to ever find anything PERFECT...We don't live in a PERFECT world..so get over it.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

I'm not suggesting it should be perfect. I am, however, suggesting it should be the best that YOU can make it.

Mr. Fix · Sep 17, 2007

Just click on 'spell-check' before you submit...

Sorry if this insults your well meaning intentions, but ever hear of "spellchecker?" I use MS word for my WIP and I routinely hit the spell checker, just to help out. I am a nitoriuslee bad speller (and I use a 'public' computer - not on the internet at home - so my spellchecker doesn't work when I'm on this site,) but posting without checking the spelling just seems... well... lazy. IMHO.

Sorry to offend.

:e2hammer:

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

Mr. Fix said:
Sorry if this insults your well meaning intentions, but ever hear of "spellcheck?" I use MS word for my WIP and I routinely hit the spell checker, just to help out. I am a nitoriuslee bad speller (and I use a 'public' computer - not on the internet at home - so my spellchecker doesn't work when I'm on this site,) but posting without checking the spell just seems... well... lazy. IMHO

Sorry to offend.

I use spell checker all the time...it was mainly the comma's and stuff like that...to me a it's not the most important thing..If you edit your work going along, well you end up taking too much time.

And on Writers Cafe there are some folks that post first drafts..they want to see if the story works and if it makes sense..I NEVER make comments like that..I take my time out of my busy day and tell them what I think.

I wasn't so much offended by the suggestions, but the going back to school remark...

But this isn't worth my time wasting my breath arguing about.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

no. it isn't.

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

KTC said:
that's fine...get it done...but you shouldn't be posting a first draft for others to critique. I think you missed the point. Edit until it is sharp...and then ask for critique. Otherwise, you are wasting the time of the critiquer. I can't really worry about offending you. You don't worry about offending your critiquers. I just wanted to suggest that you don't offer up a first draft for critique...that's not what it's about.

I'll post what I want to, how I want to, WHEN I want to...You don't own me.

Besides i'm done with this thread..I was just venting and nothing more..Didn't mean to start a whirlwind.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

are you for real?

Writer2011 · Sep 17, 2007

Forgive me about being such a nice person. I've never once given a rude comment to anyone..Maybe you feel better about doing it.

Have you ever been published? Not e-publisher either..I mean really published like in the bookstores? If not then shut up

jennifer75 · Sep 17, 2007

aspiringwriter said:
Well someone critiqued my first chapter and said I should go to a community college and take a refresher course on writing..can you believe that? I told her that in college I took writing intensive classes and didn't fail a single paper or class for that matter. I know my grammar isn't perfcet (whose is)..ohhh it made me so mad

You want me to talk to her? I'm in a real crappy mood, I could possibly bring her to tears. Gawd...I need a beer.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

I don't know where your hostility is coming from? I was making an exceptionally good suggestion to you. I don't see where I was being rude...perhaps a bit impatient...but I don't think rude. I have been published. But that has nothing to do with this thread. You will be met with the same attitude wherever you post work for critique that is not up to snuff. I was just trying to save you some grief. But, please, feel free to attack.

jennifer75 · Sep 17, 2007

I think the whole "go back to school" comment would have pissed me off too. Constructive criticism and advice on writing are different than a backhanded comment like that.

Of course you leave yourself open to these things when posting chapters, edited or not.

I took the chance of posting an entire first chapter before anybody with "skills" ever read it and I got lots of constructive criticism - but no rude comments. I guess the fine people of AW are much nicer that way than in those other forums.

And besides, if those points aren't going to get you free goodies, like books, or writing supplies, F'em.

akiwiguy · Sep 17, 2007

aspiringwriter said:
Well someone critiqued my first chapter and said ...

This is where I personally have a bit of a problem just dumping work somewhere on the web for critiquing. The web to me is just too much of a melting-pot of anonymous people.

As it happens I haven't submitted here for critiquing yet, mainly because I can see too many areas for myself that I'm still working on, and it's a bit pointless subjecting others to that process before work's in a state that I'm reasonably satisfied with. And in my case that's likely to be after a fair bit of revision stemming from feedback from initial beta readers who I trust. Just my own thing there.

Earnest Hemmingway was quoted as saying something like "My first drafts are always shit." Shit (or crap) being his actual terminology. Probably true for all of us, and call it pride or whatever, but why would I want to hang my shit out in public for inspection? I suppose everyone has different motives for wanting work critiqued, but for me it would be that I'm fairly confident that I've done all I can, and now I want objective opinions on all of the flaws (or maybe strengths) that I can't see from my own perspective.

Stew21 · Sep 17, 2007

If you want people to focus on your story, characterization, tension, pacing, etc, then you need to eliminate as many distractions as possible. Distractions to a reader are things like punctuation and grammar.

Silver King · Sep 17, 2007

We can agree that telling someone to go back to school is rude. As for posting first drafts, I could never do so simply because of my respect for the reader. It's also a matter of pride in my work. I want to put my best foot forward and present a finished product, something that may require a bit of tweaking here and there, but is otherwise complete.

Heck, I can't even post a simple comment on this site most of time without some kind of prior editing to help carry my thoughts to their intended purpose. That's why all of my posts are pristine and free of missteaks.

Azraelsbane · Sep 17, 2007

aspiringwriter said:
Forgive me about being such a nice person. I've never once given a rude comment to anyone..Maybe you feel better about doing it.

Have you ever been published? Not e-publisher either..I mean really published like in the bookstores? If not then shut up

Wow. If you really feel like this, the internet is the last place you should be asking for crits.

I know how you feel when it comes to people slamming your work. It happens to us all, and it sucks, but it's something you have to brace yourself for when posting. If you're ever published, there won't be any forum mods to curve the reviews. Just sayin'.

Stew21 · Sep 17, 2007

you are right, SK. It is respect for the reader, pride in your work, I agree.
But telling someone to go back to school, while it may sound condescending, is advice I have seen given at AW with all earnestness and good intent.
Perhaps before telling someone he should go back to school, we should tell someone to go back and edit, but still, sometimes it is good advice, and if a group of anonymous people doesn't know that you have a college education, took writing-intensive classes, doesn't know how you do your first drafts and that you are indeed posting a first draft, it may be the first response you get.
The people who said it don't know anything about aspiringwriter, except what he put forward for them to critique.
:shrugs: I might be inclined to say something similar. If I did not feel that it was lack of education I would feel it was lack of respect for my time.

brokenfingers · Sep 17, 2007

Well someone critiqued my first chapter and said I should go to a community college and take a refresher course on writing..can you believe that?

I don't see how that's rude since the person who said it had no prior knowledge whatsoever of the skill level of the person who submitted the piece.

Obviously this was their opinion based upon the work shown. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what you submit pieces to be critiqued for? To garner people's opinions on your writing?

Cassiopeia · Sep 17, 2007

First, let me start off by saying, yes...their comment was out of line. There, I hope that helps you to feel a little better and less hostile.

Second, I think you are being exceptionally defensive and extremely rude to imply that someone who has be e-published deserves less recognition than the traditional form of publishing work on paper (which btw kills trees but I won't digress).

Third, when I am reading something for someone as a favour to them and offer suggestions, I am most grateful when they have worked on their grammar, spelling, punctuation and all that BECAUSE, I can not get into the flow of a story if I don't get direction from the writer as to where to place emphasis.

Fourth and Finally, don't you ever tell KTC to shut up again. That's my job and he whimpers if someone else does it. :tongue

Kidding aside, you owe him an apology for the way you have attacked him for just offering to help you.

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