Story is Everything?

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maestrowork

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We hear this time to time: story is everything; story trumps everything else.

While I think there's truth in it -- if the story doesn't interest me or the plot doesn't string me along, I probably wouldn't finish reading the book -- I think there's more to it.

For me, the story is only half-done if I don't care about the characters, if they're just cardboard cutouts, replaceable parts. Don't get me wrong; I'd probably still enjoy the story but it wouldn't be memorable. As exciting as Jurassic Park was, it was memorable because I came to care about Grant, Malcolm, Hammond, et el., and they do interesting things.

Also, what makes a book memorable to me are usually specific scenes -- scenes so breathtaking that they lodged in my brain. Often than not when I mention a book I liked, I can recall the general synopsis/outline of the story (sometimes not even that) but I can always remember specific scenes, and more often than not, they're tied to how I felt about the characters in those scenes. Beginnings and endings are specific "scenes" that many people do remember, and they sometimes either make or break a book.

In the best books, everything works together and the story is the sum of all parts. But looking back on all the books I've read and enjoyed and remembered, I'd single out "great characters doing interesting things" as what really makes a book special to me.

Any thoughts?
 

Celia Cyanide

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One reason why story probably trumps everything else is that story is mainly what makes people buy the book. The writing and the characters may be excellent, but that isn't something you know until after you've read it. The story is what intrigues people enough to want to pick it up. I think the story is a small part of the whole, as far as what makes the book work, and what makes people want to read the next one. But if someone reads a summary of a novel, and it sounds stupid, they are more likely to move onto another novel. They probably won't read it, hoping that at least the the writing style and characters might be good.
 

Susan Gable

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Great question, Ray. I asked this question ("What makes a story stick with a reader?") when I started formulating my workshop Story Superglue: Make It Stick with Readers.

I came up with two specific things that make the story stick:

Character(s) (As you mention -- but as you also say, they sorta need to DO something. The most interesting character on the planet will bore me to death if she/he just sits around, contemplating her/his navel.)

Emotion -- the emotional reaction the story provokes in the reader. Even if it's a negative emotion.

And yes, I think those are basic components of what we call STORY. It's not the POV that does it. It's not the exact word choices the writer slaved so hard over (though those ARE important components -- you can use both of those tools to create character and emotion.)

The thing is, you can craft the most perfect piece of writing that's FLAT. No one is interested in a flat story. (Or a flat soda, for that matter. <G>)

For me, it's charater & emotion that makes a story memorable.

Susan G.
 

Twizzle

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I'm confoozed.

If you're saying story is the sum of all parts--meaning parts like character, scene, prose--then for you sometimes the parts are enough? Not the sum? Sometimes just a good part trumps all?

Sounds dirty. I like that.

but serious. I'm confused. Character alone can't trump all.
 
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DeleyanLee

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In the best books, everything works together and the story is the sum of all parts. But looking back on all the books I've read and enjoyed and remembered, I'd single out "great characters doing interesting things" as what really makes a book special to me.

I totally agree--Story is the sum of all the parts. However I think that most readers remember Character better than other elements of Story because people relate to people best of all. We might gaze in awe at a stunning landscape, but that's stagnant. Events (plot) happens to people, so it's passive. Theme is an undertone that many don't even realize is there. People are active. People are dramatic. People are memorable.

Makes total sense to me why it's the characters readers remember long after the book is back on the shelf. And the majority, if not all of the scenes (events) that stand out in the mind are those that best dramatized the characters.

However you take wonderful Characters in a cardboard World with uninspired Events or a preachy Theme and you've got a bad Story people won't get into as well. There can be a great Idea hidden under lackidasical writing or muddled by lack of focus. One great ingredient in a stew won't save it, after all.

OTOH, you can take mediocre ingredients that, by themselves, aren't that exciting, and mix them together and come up with a fantastic Story that people can't put down and want more and more of.

The problem is, you never can tell what really makes a "great Story." At least, I can't. If you know how--please share! I'd love to know.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Story

Story and characters are everything. I'd even turn it around, Characters and story are everything. It's the writing that gets in the way. New writers often pay so much attention to technique, to the actual writing, that they forget it's character and story that readers are after.

You see this with all the complaints about how poorly bestselling writers write, which is nonsense. Get the characters are story right, and the writign itself can be mediocre, but the best writing in the world can't make up for bad characters and bad story.

And I think good characters almost always outweigh story. Everyone knows who Sherlock Holmes is, but not many can tell you much about the stories.
 

maestrowork

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I think the story is what gets me through to the end. But when I really look into why I like the book, it's not so much about the actual story (most of the time, I don't even remember what the exact story is after a few years). It's the characters and, like Susan said, the emotions I experienced. Meaning, I can go back and use the same characters and the same emotions but completely rewrite the story, and it would still work for me. So the original story doesn't "trump" anything. It's just a sum.
 
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Sassee

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We hear this time to time: story is everything; story trumps everything else.

While I think there's truth in it -- if the story doesn't interest me or the plot doesn't string me along, I probably wouldn't finish reading the book -- I think there's more to it.

For me, the story is only half-done if I don't care about the characters, if they're just cardboard cutouts, replaceable parts. Don't get me wrong; I'd probably still enjoy the story but it wouldn't be memorable. As exciting as Jurassic Park was, it was memorable because I came to care about Grant, Malcolm, Hammond, et el., and they do interesting things.

Also, what makes a book memorable to me are usually specific scenes -- scenes so breathtaking that they lodged in my brain. Often than not when I mention a book I liked, I can recall the general synopsis/outline of the story (sometimes not even that) but I can always remember specific scenes, and more often than not, they're tied to how I felt about the characters in those scenes. Beginnings and endings are specific "scenes" that many people do remember, and they sometimes either make or break a book.

In the best books, everything works together and the story is the sum of all parts. But looking back on all the books I've read and enjoyed and remembered, I'd single out "great characters doing interesting things" as what really makes a book special to me.

Any thoughts?


I know some people don't like Janet Evanovich, but seriously, character is first and foremost in my mind when I think of her. Okay yeah, she writes mysteries, her character Stephanie catches bad guys, generally the story is pretty good, but what I remember is the cast. I can only give you the plotline for one of her 13 Stephanie Plum novels, but I can name and describe every single major character in them. I've gotten to the point where I don't even care what the story is anymore... I just wait for the chance to hang out with Steph, Lula, Ranger (HAWT!), Joe, Grandma Mazur, et al.

But then, on the flip side, there are books where I really loved the story. The characters were just "meh" but the story was so good I go back and read it from time to time. (And get jealous wondering why I can't write a story like that... /sigh)

So, to answer your question -

No, story is not always "everything." It really depends on the individual book. Although, having that excellent story generally makes your book an easier sell.
 

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The story has to be compelling and the parts of the story have to support it. The story is the sum of the parts, I agree there.

The elements have to be strong, even in a poorly written (the technical aspects of writing) manuscript. elements being: character, events, setting, themes - which comprise the story as a whole.

Yes, story trumps all, but it has to be supported by the parts it possesses.
 

robeiae

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Wait a minute...I'm supposed to have a STORY in here? Crap.

*tosses wip in file 13*


Seriously, though: I think there are different kinds of books, as Sassee said. There are some books that I really liked because of the story, alone. Clive Cussler books come to mind. Other books I liked because of how I was drawn into the world of the book, never mind the actual story. A really good biography has that trait, imo, along with some historical fiction. And still, other books were memorable because of the characters and their development, like The Great Gatsby. Then there are those books where the writing was just so...something that I couldn't stop reading--like Dan Brown books :)ROFL:). Okay, not Brown. But maybe Maugham. Or Hemingway.

And I guess this last group transcends the others in some ways, but the others are not somehow worthless--not by a long shot.
 
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I think I'd agree with some of what's being said here. Story is probably more important to sell a novel than to make a novel interesting. Good characters are hard to describe to an audience, but they wind up being what makes lasting impressions on them.

For me it's pretty much all characters. If you have enough really interesting characters you can throw something relatively small and arguably even something stupid at them and just watch how they each deal with it, and that'll make for a good read.

Which doesn't mean that the story doesn't matter. It really does. But I don't think it's the trump card that is the most important thing in a novel.

Though I really suppose that depends on the novel.
 

Roger J Carlson

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I think we're confusing plot and story. To my mind, Plot + Characters = Story. In that sense, story IS everything.
 

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I see character as an element of story, without which story wouldn't exist. It would just be plot.

To whittle it down even further, I see character as a subset of "setting."

Story is: an inevitable course of events within a given setting. People are a part of that setting, but so is everything else, and it all has to behave in a human way.

If you ask me, the thing that makes a book memorable is the degree to which the story is compelling, and without a human setting it can't be compelling. Even aliens and robots should be "human."

I think one other element contributes to make a story compelling: the story's perspective on humanity must not be overly familiar to the reader.
 

robeiae

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I think we're confusing plot and story. To my mind, Plot + Characters = Story. In that sense, story IS everything.
Even under that rubric, I would disagree somewhat, re my point on getting drawn into the world of the novel and my point on writing that just moves you. Now, you could say that it is the way the story is told that is responsible for these things, so story still would be everything. But even then, there are books wherein it is all about the plot. And these books are not bad, by definition, are they?
 

KTC

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I do agree, in theory, that story is everything. I do. But to me, characters are a close 2nd. When characters are done REALLY well, they even surpass story. When I'm reading that kind of book, I am at my most happiest.
 

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Yes...I realize that.
 

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I will read to the end a poorly written book with weak characters if the story is compelling enough. Same with watching a movie. I've endured a few really bad movies just to see how they end-because the story was so interesting. I will still recall the book/movie as a horrible book/movie, if I recall it at all, but that story will remain in my head.


But this works in reverse as well-I read a book a few years ago (wracking my brain trying to remember the title/author), with very well done characters-it was written in sort of a memoir style. I eagerly followed this menopausal woman through her family events -expecting something big to happen at any minute-nothing happened, ever! I was so angry when I finished, I threw the book across the room, then picked it up and threw it again. It was such an incredible waste of time. If there was some subtle point, some statement the author wanted to make, it was too subtle for this reader, yet I was immensely interested in finding it.
I agree that the more memorable books have
great characters doing interesting things, as so many have stated in this thread.
 

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I think good characters are born out their actions within a compelling story.

Some stories lie beneath the surface and don't particularly stand out to the reader but that doesn't mean that the story isn't there, or that it's less significant than any other element of the novel.

And elements of the story, like character, only have meaning because they are connected to a story. We tend to remember people, places and things because they're easy to remember, they're more tangible than an underlying storyline.
 

maestrowork

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Story = characters + plot

Yes, but that's just a placeholder. It doesn't mean it's everything. You can have a story in which the characters are GREAT but there is no plot -- you still have a story, but does it make it good? You can have a GREAT plot but the character sucks, so does it make the story good? You can have poor plot and poor characters, and you STILL have a story -- probably a bad one. So, since story is constant, my thought is that it really depends on what's under the cover.

Many people have great story idea, even a great plot, but the execution just isn't there. I blame most of the problem on characters.
 

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Yes, but that's just a placeholder. It doesn't mean it's everything. You can have a story in which the characters are GREAT but there is no plot -- you still have a story, but does it make it good? You can have a GREAT plot but the character sucks, so does it make the story good? You can have poor plot and poor characters, and you STILL have a story -- probably a bad one. So, since story is constant, my thought is that it really depends on what's under the cover.

Many people have great story idea, even a great plot, but the execution just isn't there. I blame most of the problem on characters.
What I mean is that story literally is everything. It's the sum that is greater than all of its parts.
And this from the OP - "I'd single out "great characters doing interesting things" as what really makes a book special to me." is as good a definition of story as any, imho.
 

maestrowork

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The question of "Is story everything?" has more to do with the quality of the book then a literal meaning. We already know story = sum of all parts. (p.s. I am the OP :p )

But I would mull over whether "great characters doing interesting things" really is the definition of story. :)
 

KTC

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but i get lost in characters, ray. good examples of powerful character writers, for me, are Salinger and Chabon. The characters propel me in their works. Though, you could argue that that's because the stories are solid. But, for me...the characters are usually upfront stars for me with these examples.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Plot

I think we're confusing plot and story. To my mind, Plot + Characters = Story. In that sense, story IS everything.

For me, it's the opposite. Characters plus story=plot. Plot is a byproduct of good characters and good story.
 
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