Average number of rejections?

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HopelessDreamer

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I know that some authors can find an agent after only querying a handful of times, while others face literally hundreds of rejections. I've gotten sixteen myself so far, which I know is a small number compared to most (but I still haven't landed an agent). Is there an "average" number of rejections an author receives before finding the right one?
 

myyah

Average rejections

Hi Hopeless Dreamer
I just read today that the compilers of the Chicken Soup Book
were rejected by 140 plus, publishers.
Twenty would have been enough for me.
Their agent even told them to take the manuscript back!
These guys believed so much in their product
and despite overwhelming evidence that nobody else did,
they kept trying.
So it looks like you/we must wade in the deep stuff before getting noticed.

Onward Tonto...
 

Jamesaritchie

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Average

I don't think there is such a thing as an average number. How many rejections you receive depends on the quality of both the query letter, and the manuscript itself. A bad query letter can stop you cold, and the manuscript itself, however good, will never be requested. A bad opening in the manuscript can stop any agent from reading past page one, etc.

The same bad query will probably be rejected over and over and over and over. But change the query just a bit, turn it into a good query, and the first agent who sees it will likely request the manuscript, assuming you're querying the best agent for the job.

The same bad opening will cause a manuscript to be rejected countless times, but change the opening a bit, turn it into a good opening, and the first agent who reads the manuscript will likely take it on.

Very often, when you hear that a very good, bestselling novel was rejected many times, it really wasn't. A bad query or a bad opening was rejected many times, and after the writer made a few changes to one or the other, the manuscript was snapped up.
 

MsJudy

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That's the hard part, though, isn't it. Figuring out what the problem is. Bad timing? Bad concept? Bad query? Bad beginning? Or actual bad writing that needs to be added to the trunk? For me, that's turning out to be at least as big a part of the learning process as learning how to tell a story in the first place has been.
 

Provrb1810meggy

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I've had 8 requests. 2 have been rejected already. 6 are still under consideration. I've had 17 initial rejections. I have 15 unanswered queries out.

I have no clue if these numbers are standard or not.

I mean, I've heard some people who have a 50 percent request rate, which I don't have. Right now I have a *does the calculations* 32 percent request rate, but that can change depending on the responses to the queries I have out now. But really, the request rate won't matter if I get an agent!

EDIT: I think I forgot to include two rejections, so if you factor it in, my request rate is less, but I don't want to do the math because I'm lazy! Okay, I did do the math, cause I was curious. 29.626263 percent!
 
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davesbad1

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the numbers are only important if you want them to be

When you've been rejected for as long as I have, you develop a different attitude toward the whole process. During my first decade (1971-79), I saved my rejection slips and eventually collected enough to cover not only my bedroom walls, but also the spare room walls and part of the hall. Then it dawned on me that the boxes stuffed with them in my closet were depressing me, so one day I had a huge bonfire and nearly burned down the woods behind my house.
My second and third decades of submitting (1986 to now) have seen an entirely different approach. I trash the rejections as soon as I get them. I've found that if I don't have them around, I don't think about them at all. Writing is difficult enough even without the negativity of a stack of form rejection slips cluttering up your desk or drawer. When you create, you want to do it in an atmosphere of peace and harmony. You can't do it effectively with a scrap of paper stamped with the logo of a harried, disinterested agent staring up at you, or peeking at you from inside your bottom drawer.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Problem

That's the hard part, though, isn't it. Figuring out what the problem is. Bad timing? Bad concept? Bad query? Bad beginning? Or actual bad writing that needs to be added to the trunk? For me, that's turning out to be at least as big a part of the learning process as learning how to tell a story in the first place has been.

Figuring out where the initial problem lies is pretty easy. If you get no requests, the problem is with the query. If you get rejected over and over after partials are requested, the problem is most likely in the opening. But if you keep getting rejected after fulls are requested, the problem could be bad writing, bad story, bad ending, or any combination.

I do think far too few writers include the first three or so pages of the manuscript with the query. Good first pages can save the worst query ever written.
 

KTC

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no average. one could get an acceptance on first try, another can slug away forever never getting an acceptance. and then there are the people in the middle.
 

DeleyanLee

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A local author often said: "Every writer has a magic number of rejections they have to accumulate before they sell. Unfortunately, no one knows what their number is and no one's number is the same as anyone else's."

I've always found that to be the best comfort on the subject.
 

Deirdre

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I've received a number of rejections for things that didn't sell. Of my short stories, the one that did sell sold to its first market on its first submission. It also sold to a reprint market on its first submission.

So I know I can do it, I just need to repeat it.
 

triceretops

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It's very strange. I've noticed that the first publishers to read my novels from cover to cover, were the first ones that offered contracts. So I knew that all of my problems revolved around weak or sluggish starts. It seems that I info-dumped no less than six books, and pretty much got shot down after the partials on all of them. I think I had something like 145 rejections for four books before I did a forehead slap. When I went in and reworked the front ends of three of those books, all of them sold.

Since then, I've learned to use the riding crop on this horse straight out of the gate.

Tri
 

Azraelsbane

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I do think far too few writers include the first three or so pages of the manuscript with the query. Good first pages can save the worst query ever written.

I didn't realize this was an option (granted, I haven't started querying yet...soon, so soon!). Is it always okay to send the first 3 pages?
 

talps

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I didn't realize this was an option (granted, I haven't started querying yet...soon, so soon!). Is it always okay to send the first 3 pages?

I'm also interested in this. I've heard various thoughts - some say it's perfectly acceptable, others warn it'll sabotage your query before an agent even gets to the letter itself because you haven't followed their specific direstions.

If they have submission guidelines, I respect them to the letter.

Others don't?
 
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Jamesaritchie

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I didn't realize this was an option (granted, I haven't started querying yet...soon, so soon!). Is it always okay to send the first 3 pages?

Miss Snark called it "an unwritten rule," and I'd have to question any agent who would reject a writer for sending along so few pages. I wouldn't want such an agent.
 

lkp

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Unless they say specifically "send nothing but the query," or if they have some other specific guideline (1st chapter, 1st 50 pages) I always send between 5 and 10 pages. And in fact today I had a request for a full based on a query I sent a week ago with an unsolicited 8 pages. I think in the best case it can mean they go straight to requesting the full rather than beginning with a partial.
 

talps

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Thanks for the replies - and congrats to lkp for the request.

Sorry if I encouraged the thread to veer off-topic, but I truly have a hard time getting my head around the rules-are-rules concept. Even with the green lights of the last two posts, I seriously think it would take 100 stories like lkp's for me to accept that including a sample wouldn't derail me immediately. Just one of those mental writer hitches.

Or maybe mental hitches of the writer?

Either or, I suppose.
 

lkp

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talps, now that I think about it, all five of the agents who have read fulls have received unsolicited pages from me at the beginning --- three by snail mail and two with pages appended (NOT attached) to an e-mail. Only one has rejected me; the rest are still "live." So now you only need another 95 stories!
 

Provrb1810meggy

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That's true.

I submitted two books before submitting this one, and I also had a trunk novel before I wrote this one.
 

maddythemad

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There is no average. I found an agent after nine queries (and only four or so rejections), but keep in mind that my first novel never sold. At all. Like, it sucked. I eventually gave up on it and wrote the next one instead.

So "not selling your book" is not the end of the world here. That would be called, "not writing book two." :D
 

Shady Lane

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I was inspired to figure out my rejection/request ration--exactly 1/3 of my queries so far get requests for more. Not bad.
 

andracill

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You just never know...I've written around ten books, but didn't start receiving positive feedback from agents until book four (though book three got a full request from an editor) -- the responses from those who've read fulls have varied from forms (from someone who always sends forms) to personal suggestions/encouragement. Many of them have said that they 'know' I'll be published and find an agent -- but so far, none of them feel it'll be them.

However, I have three different books out with various agents (and one editor) right now...so you just don't know. Maddy's gotten it the closest to my experience -- just keep writing the next story, and someday, persistence will pay off :)
 
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