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Dusk
09-09-2007, 02:11 AM
Forgive me if I'm posting news that folks already know, but I don't see anything about this elsewhere at this forum. Here's the relevant news article (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6467648.html?nid=2286&source=title&rid=778046870) from August 10 at Publishers Weekly, and here is the new service, CreateSpace (http://www.createspace.com/).

Differences that I notice between CreateSpace and Lulu:

The pricing structure is hard to compare, but someone at the Lulu forums who ran the numbers (http://www.lulu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=71908) concluded: "CreateSpace's pricing is almost always better than Lulu's for books sold on Amazon (sometimes by a lot), slightly better for color or very short B&W books sold on storefronts [i.e. through Lulu's or CreateSpace's Websites], and worse on longer B&W books sold on storefronts."

Lulu books have the option of being sold through various online bookstores (and also brick-and-mortar bookstores, though that's unlikely, because of the pricing structure); for that option, you have to pay a fee. CreateSpace books can only be sold through the U.S. Amazon bookstore; you pay no fee for this.

Lulu does a lot of optional hand-holding through such processes as creating a PDF file and creating a cover. I can't tell whether CreateSpace does, but it certainly doesn't have the quite valuable support forums that Lulu does.

For more comparisons, see the second link above. Also, a Lulu member has already put together a comparison calculator (http://www.lugaru.com/createspace.html) between the two services.

Running some numbers for comparison's sake, here's the breakdown in prices, using as an example a 300-page book that's priced at $15.99.

Lulu Storefront (sold only at Lulu site): $4.53 (cover and binding) + 2 cents per page + 20% of profit to Lulu.
Author's profit: $4.91

Lulu Distribution (sold anywhere - realistically, only at online bookstores): $1.50 (cover, binding, and set-up) + 2 cents per page + 20% of profit + 50% of total to distributors.
Author's profit: 30 cents.
Added expenses: $100-150 for ISBN. Optional $80 fee for corrections.

CreateSpace (sold only at CreateSpace site): $3.15 (cover and binding) + 2 cents per page + 20% of list price (not profit) to CreateSpace.
Author's profit: $3.64.
Added expenses: Optional $270 fee for ISBN (a block of ten - you can use the ISBNs for nine other books too) if you want to sell the book through other self-publishing services too.

CreateSpace (sold at CreateSpace site and U.S. Amazon site): $3.15 (cover and binding) + 2 cents per page + 30% of list price to Create.
Author's profit: $2.04.
Added expenses: Optional $270 fee for ISBN (a block of ten - you can use the ISBNs for nine other books too) if you want to sell the book through other self-publishing services too.

Lightning Source (sold anywhere - realistically, only at online bookstores): 90 cents (cover and binding) + 1.3 cents per page + 25% of total to distributors (you set your own percentage, but that figure is on the low end, for maximum profit).
Author's profit: $7.19.
Added expenses: $270 for ISBN (a block of ten - you can use the ISBNs for nine other books too). $95 set-up fee (for 300-page book). Annual fee: $12. Optional $80 fee for corrections.

Summing up the profits:

Lulu storefront: $4.91.
CreateSpace storefront: $3.64.
Lulu + online bookstores: $0.30
CreateSpace + U.S. Amazon: $2.04.
Lightning Source (online bookstores): $7.19.

(Anyone have anything to add to my figuring? Math isn't my strong point.)

Lightning Source remains miles ahead of its competitors in terms of profit. However, working directly with Lightning Source continues to be a hassle, because they're set up to work with businesses, not individuals.

There's probably hidden ickiness in all this - there always is - but off-hand, it looks to me as though CreateSpace is a strong rival to Lulu. The good news is that neither company requires exclusive rights, so (provided that you buy your own ISBN, which costs a fair amount of money) you could upload your book to both companies if you wished.

veinglory
09-09-2007, 02:22 AM
...I don't see an ebook option?

Gigi Sahi
09-09-2007, 03:36 AM
I tested this out with one of my self-pubbed chap books. Create Space is fulfilled through BookSurge. Sure, Lulu costs a bit more, but I find their quality far superior to that of Create Space. The front cover colors were bolder and crisper from Lulu. The body text print was sharper set against an off-white page, which I find easier on the eyes. Whereas, with Create Space the pages are stark white and give a bit of a glare. The text seemed a bit faded and the images on my front cover were fuzzy. Mind you, I submitted identical pdf files to Lulu and Create Space.

I had my book within 5 business day via UPS Ground from Create Space. Deliver took 8 business days via USPS from Lulu at a savings of just over $2.00 shipping cost. Create Space doesn't give the option of how you'd like your book shipped the way Lulu does.

What I like about Create Space is that they offer the 6x9 and the 5.5x8.5 novel sizes. Lulu only offers the 6x9. Also, Create Space will automatically assign an ISBN and barcode with a generic '9000' barcode for the price, and place your book(s) on amazon.com at no extra cost. Those services are extra at Lulu.

Bottom line:

Better overall quality: Lulu, hands down.

Better overall package: Create Space, hands down.

IMHO

Dusk
09-09-2007, 06:48 PM
Gigi Sahi, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Veinglory, repeating what I said elsewhere: CreateSpace doesn't have an e-book option for the simple reason that Amazon only sells Mobipocket e-books, so Mobipocket takes care of the job of arranging for Mobipocket-formatted e-books to be sold at Amazon. Self-publishers can go through that process (https://www.mobipocket.com/ebookbase/en/Homepage/pub_info.asp), incidentally.

Stijn Hommes
09-09-2007, 10:17 PM
What I like about Create Space is that they offer the 6x9 and the 5.5x8.5 novel sizes. Lulu only offers the 6x9. http://www.lulu.com/help/index.php?fSymbol=paperback_printspecs Lulu also offers pocket size and about a dozen other trim sizes. Saying they only offer 6x9 is wrong. Besides, I don't see what the fuzz is about half an inch.

Stijn Hommes
09-09-2007, 10:28 PM
I gave it a look and there's a significant problem with that site.
On the getting started page I get: "We are currently unable to offer book setup for non-US members due to tax considerations." I couldn't even use it if I wanted to.

Gigi Sahi
09-10-2007, 04:29 AM
Lulu ONLY offers the 6x9 novel trim size. I stand by that. They're site says so. Of course they offer other trim sizes, but those are not novel trim sizes. Those other trim sizes are better suited for mass market paperbacks, children's books, etc. Create Space offers those trim sizes as well. In addition, Create Space offers both the 6x9 NOVEL trim size AND the 5.5x8.5 NOVEL trim size. If you've ever self-published and formatted your own books, it should be obvious that a half inch in length and width makes a HUGE difference in page count and, subsequently, spine width.

Julie Worth
09-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Lulu ONLY offers the 6x9 novel trim size. I stand by that. They're site says so. Of course they offer other trim sizes, but those are not novel trim sizes. Those other trim sizes are better suited for mass market paperbacks, children's books, etc.


Huh? I've bought plenty of mass-market novels over the years. In fact, it's mostly novels that are published that way.

I always use the mass market size from Lulu (4.25" x 6.875"), even though it has more pages (even with 11 pt rather then 12 pt text) and therefore costs more. But it's cute, convenient, and my Beta readers prefer it. And an agent I sent it to emailed me, saying he loved it. He called it a "subway reader."

Stijn Hommes
09-10-2007, 03:41 PM
If you saw my bookshelf you'd understand. There is no standard novel size. At least not according to the publishers of the authors I'm reading.

Gigi Sahi
09-10-2007, 08:39 PM
Exactly - novels are also formatted as mass market paperbacks, a trim size that is also available on both Lulu and Create Space. However, I was referring to TRADE paperback novels as I personally NEVER purchase mass market formatted novels. The print is much too small and the pages are much too thin for my liking. The books I purchase are hardcover or trade paperback and they come in 6x9 and 5.5x8.5. I should've substituted the words 'Trade paperback' for 'novel'. I thought it was understood. Standard trim sizes for TRADE PAPERBACKS are 6x9 and 5.5x8.5. Lulu ONLY offers the 6x9 TRADE PAPERBACK trim size. Create Space offers both TRADE PAPERBACK trim sizes. Better? Sheesh!

Julie Worth
09-10-2007, 08:45 PM
I was referring to TRADE paperback novels as I personally NEVER purchase mass market formatted novels. The print is much too small and the pages are much too thin for my liking.

At Lulu, the paper and cover of the pocket size are exactly the same as the 6x9. The only difference is the trim size. The print size, of course, is whatever you want it to be.

Also, Lulu offers two sizes of hardcover.

Gigi Sahi
09-10-2007, 10:47 PM
Well, that's true. But take my novel that I self-pubbed thru Lulu. (It's the very book I lost to PA, minus the typos they added, then later got my rights back. That book only sold 3 copies. While I'm aware that self-pubbing isn't the best route for novels, I figured I could do better than selling 3 copies by pubbing it myself).

Moving along...

I formated my novel as a 6x9 paperback with 1" inner, and .75" outer, top, and bottom in Georgia 10 with a .04 leading (using Open Office Writer). Total page count: 388. The list price is $15.95. [my PA book was 320 pgs and with a $24.95 cover price] Keeping that font, font size, those margins and leading, could you imagine if I formatted my book as a mass market paperback? I think we're easily talking 700 pages. Caray!

Now, I didn't buy the distribution package at Lulu because I learned of Create Space where you're automatically listed with Amazon. So, I sent them the same files and my book should be listed on Amazon in a week or so. BN even picked it up through the ISBN and Books-in-Print. [I have NO idea of how BN plan on fulfilling sales, if any. Amazon prints the books as they're ordered. That's why I went with them. I didn't have a clue that BN would pick up my book based on its ISBN]. I have my own ISBN prefix (a 10 block) as I enjoy self-pubbing a few projects of mine as a hobby (still have my day job). I also gave one of my ISBNs to a friend of mine. She did/is doing all the work on her book, she just didn't want to be "self-published" so by using my ISBN, my "press" is the publisher of record, and she's going to split her profits with me. So I guess I'm an accidental indy micro press now. LOL! This just might work out. Who knows? Stranger things have happened, yet I have no expectation of success because the whole thing is a fluke.

Christine N.
10-02-2007, 05:14 PM
One thing to add to this discussion.

I discovered (through a little digging) that the "ISBN" advertised on CS is NOT a Bowker's ISBN - it's only an Amazon tracking number, and useless anywhere else.


If you purchase an ISBN from Lulu (which you can now do thanks to their 'Published by you' program, it's a real Bowker's number, which means you get listed in Books in Print. If you buy their distribution package, you get an Ingram's listing AND an Amazon listing.

So if you only want to sell on Amazon, CreateSpace is probably okay, but you're NOT getting a real ISBN for free. If you already own an ISBN, you could conceivably upload the book to BOTH sites and get a free Amazon listing and be on Lulu's storefront. Not sure what that'd get you, though.

I wish they'd change that on the site, because it could lead to confusion.

Alex Bravo
10-07-2007, 05:50 PM
So can you use more than one of these? For example, Create Space for POD and Lightning Source for eBooks?

Alex

Christine N.
10-07-2007, 07:18 PM
As far as I know you can, since YOU own the rights. CS and Lulu are just printers, not publishers.

Alex Bravo
10-09-2007, 03:40 AM
When I went to createspace, their example (http://www.createspace.com/Products/BooksPrices.jsp) of a 200 page book gave a profit of $14.85 for a list of $25. But they keep saying e-store. So is this an e-book? But I thought they didn't offer that?

Christine N.
10-10-2007, 01:08 AM
e-store is just electronic store, like online store. As opposed to brick and mortar store.

Dusk
10-15-2007, 12:58 AM
Christine N. wrote:

"I discovered (through a little digging) that the 'ISBN' advertised on CS is NOT a Bowker's ISBN - it's only an Amazon tracking number, and useless anywhere else."

Oh, my, you're right (http://www.createspace.com/Help/Book/FAQ.jsp#2.17). Good to know.

Christine N.
10-16-2007, 02:41 PM
See, now their "glossary" says that the ISBN's DO come from Bowkers, but that they belong to CS and you can't use them anywhere else. But when my friend actually ASKED about them, he was told that it WASN'T a real ISBN from Bowkers, just an Amazon stocking number.

So I don't know what they heck they're doing over there at CS. If you purchase an ISBN from Lulu, I know it's a real one and I THINK you can then take that one and use it over at CS. Especially if you purchase the 'published by you' package at Lulu, which assigns the ISBN directly to you and not to Lulu. And Lulu has the distribution package you can purchase, which gets the book on Amazon and listed in Ingrams, which means a library or bookstore could order one if they had the inclination.

CreateSpace is just for listing your book for sale on Amazon.

MarkP
10-16-2007, 06:04 PM
Has anyone ever asked themselves why these company's charge so much for the author to buy their book that they have just sold?

Seems to be a serious flaw in the system.

It can't be for the great distribution they provide because we all know how few books per author are actually sold.

Dusk
10-16-2007, 09:55 PM
"Has anyone ever asked themselves why these company's charge so much for the author to buy their book that they have just sold?"

I haven't checked CreateSpace's policy, but Lulu lets you buy your own book for the price of the printing. The price of printing appears to be padded to provide profit to Lulu, but one expects that from a middleman organization like Lulu.

"It can't be for the great distribution they provide because we all know how few books per author are actually sold."

There's a difference between distribution and marketing. Lulu is quite frank about the fact that it does no marketing of the books. Folks who want someone else to do the marketing shouldn't go to a service that labels itself "self-publishing". :)

As far as distribution is concerned, I've heard a few complaints about the price of international shipping of Lulu books, but Lulu seems to be trying to address that. Also, I've had a couple of entanglements with Lulu's checkout process at their storefront that I've brought to the attention of the staff; again, they've addressed those problems. Other than that, I've heard no horror stories about Lulu's basic distribution process. Its global distribution is handled by Lightning Source, a printer that handles the distribution for many small presses.

So what it comes down to is marketing. If a self-published book doesn't sell well, it's almost never the distributor's fault - the fault most likely lies with the person doing the marketing, namely the author.

Of course, there's a long tradition of self-published books that are intended to have limited distribution. My father, who is a book designer, once designed me an edition of the Gospel of Luke, describing it in the colophon as being of "an extremely limited edition of two copies, of which this is copy no. 1." :)

MarkP
10-16-2007, 10:31 PM
"
I haven't checked CreateSpace's policy, but Lulu lets you buy your own book for the price of the printing. The price of printing appears to be padded to provide profit to Lulu, but one expects that from a middleman organization like Lulu.



I think it is a little more then padding. If the author provides the print ready pdf for the cover and the interior, what is it that lulu is actually doing besides printing the book and making it available on the lulu website? As far as I can tell, they charge additional to get in the other distribution channels.

Why should the "self published" author pay the markup on the printing of the book that lulu charges? They are not the middleman in my mind, they are the printer, unless the name lulu is worth a 300% mark up.

Don't get me wrong, lulu is good at what they do and their business model obviously works for them. I can't figure out why it works for the self published author.

Christine N.
10-17-2007, 01:04 AM
Lulu is just a printer. They're not a publisher. So the author didn't 'sell' the book to anyone. They wrote, edited, formatted and uploaded the book to a company that will print it. The author is the publisher in this case. And, just like any publisher, they have to purchase an ISBN and pay the printer.

If a small press wanted a distributor, they'd have to pay for that too. Granted it would be a better distribution company than what Lulu gives ya, but it'd be far more expensive too. Most distribution companies provide sales forces and such.

Lulu has overhead too - advertising, webhosting, employee salaries, etc.. So even if they charged you cost, they need to pay their bills. It's not that much they're 'padding'. And digital printing is more expensive.

There are probably cheaper places, but many are only open to publishers with more than one title.

MarkP
10-17-2007, 02:01 AM
If Lulu is just a printer, why do they take royalties on the books that they are suppossedly not publishing and distributing?

Again, this is not meant to condemn Lulu. I just don't understand why people are willing to pay such absurd printing prices for books that could be printed for so much less. By the time the book hits the market, it is basically impossible to sell at a price where the author will make any money.

Maybe there is another way?

Christine N.
10-17-2007, 04:16 AM
They're not taking royalties, AFAIK. They've added to the price of manufacturing to ensure they make a profit. Just like any other retailer would. Does the bookstore take a royalty? No, they get a discount, sell it at cover price and pocket the difference. They're a business they need to make money.

The author sets the royalty price, as much above base price as they want to make per book.

I agree there are probably cheaper alternatives, but with Lulu, like many other places, you're paying for convenience. Lulu is easy and has a good product. I made up a 100 page book of family history. Included journal entries, b&w photos and a family tree chart. Picked a stock cover.

Cost me $6 and change per copy. Cheapest Christmas gifts I ever bought. Granted I wasn't trying to make a profit on them. But for something like my little project, it was perfect. No muss, no fuss.

Remember, like I said before...overhead. Each person is paying for the website, 'free' storefront (stuff like that is NEVER free, you're just not paying specifically for it), Google ads Lulu takes out, etc...

At the end of the day, a print shop is probably cheaper. But I found lulu to be easy to use and had no difficulty.

MarkP
10-17-2007, 08:23 PM
Lulu takes a 20% royalty on all books sold through them or there distribution plans.

I am not sure how that makes them just a printer. They are just a printer if you order books and go sell them on your own, but if you were going to do that, why would you pay the absurd mark up that they charge for printing?

They are a great company that is a good fit for certain projects. If the author intends to sell a lot of books and has a good plan on how to market their book, the Lulu model is not good for that author, it is good for Lulu.

If someone wants to truly self publish, why they would do all of the work and then give away royalties and pay an absurd markup for printing is beyond me.

Mark Pitzele
www.bookprintingrevolution.com
www.millcitypress.net

Christine N.
10-17-2007, 10:12 PM
I'd never used it for anything but personal projects, never sold publicly.

And even if they take 20% of the profit (Not the total price of the item, only the over-base price), that leaves 80% for the author.

You're right, they're not good for large quanitites, but they need to pay the bills too. On the other hand, if you truly self-publish, then you spend money on websites and storefronts and whatever method you take as payment - like the credit card charges, paypal charges, or what have you. You'd still have expenses to cover.

So in the end, you'll probably make the same amount. So is it that much of a markup, when you look at it that way?

If you just want to print books and not sell them online and only take cash, then no, Lulu's not a good option.

Dusk
10-18-2007, 09:48 PM
MarkP wrote:

"Why should the 'self published' author pay the markup on the printing of the book that lulu charges?"

Ah, you're bringing up the whole middleman versus go-straight-to-the-printer issue. Well, the simple answer is that not everyone has the knowledge to deal directly with a printer, and some people are willing to pay folks who do have the knowledge, to do the work on their behalf. As Christine N says, Lulu makes things very easy for authors, and it also offers a terrific support system.

Having struggled with Lightning Source's Website, I'm sympathetic with that view. :) But I do think that more needs to be done to educate self-publishing authors, so that they can realize that Lulu is a middleman, and that cheaper alternatives exist.

On the issue of royalties: Lulu is both a subsidy press and a self-publishing service, depending on which of their plans you go with. The issue isn't whether they take a cut of the profit. If you'll look at the first post in your thread, you'll see that Lightning Source - the main printer used by self-publishers who cut out the middleman - also takes a cut of the profit. That's what distributors do, and it's very, very difficult to sell a printed book without a distributor (though one can sell an e-book that way).

The issue is rather who owns the ISBN. As is clear from this FAQ (http://www.lulu.com/en/help/royalty_faq), in cases where Lulu owns the ISBN, it's acting as a subsidy press, and so it distributes royalties. In cases where the authors owns the ISBN or there is no ISBN, Lulu is simply acting as a middleman for the printer (it doesn't do its own printing, by the way), and so it distributes author revenues. The IRS understands this distinction; I hope you do too. :)

I might add that, when Lulu sells e-books and other digital downloads, it is not a middleman; it's doing all the work itself. So in that case, the middleman issue doesn't arise, though its distribution is limited to its own Website.

MarkP
10-18-2007, 10:51 PM
What you say is true. The problem is how they market it. They market the product like it is "free", it is at a rudimentary level, and they market they printing costs as if those are their costs, they most certainly are not. The reason I know this is because I have asked. Like I said, they are good at what they do and they are a good fit for some people. They do it in a way though that I believe takes advantage of the author.

Mark Pitzele
www.millcitypress.net
www.bookprintingrevolution.com

Dusk
10-20-2007, 05:20 AM
My perception is that they're much more honest than the average business. The first thing they tell you is that you're not likely to make much money on your book. :) And they're quite clear on the fact that you don't need to buy the extras in order to publish through them.

"The reason I know this is because I have asked."

Or you could have seen that from my figures at the beginning of this thread. :)

I agree that it's unpleasant that they're not honest about the fact that they're upping the printing costs, but the formula by which they pay their own costs seems to be a very complex one. For example, an author pays $99 for a Published By You packet (currently on sale for $50, I believe), which includes an ISBN and printing by Lightning Source. Though Lulu doesn't say this, that fee must be going to Lightning Source, which charges just about that much for the set-up fee. So how is Lulu paying for the ISBN? Or the annual Lightning Source fee? Possibly it's partly by padding the printing expenses. At any rate, all of this financial decision-making goes on behind the scenes.

What it comes down to, I think, is that publishing is always a matter of Buyer Beware. If an author were using a local print shop, they'd likewise have to be wary of any claims made by the printer. Comparison shopping is best.

Christine N.
10-21-2007, 12:35 AM
Now that's true.
Not everyone get the 'published by you' package, but they all have to go through LS to be printed. So how is that setup fee being paid?

If you were go to it yourself, and purchase an ISBN and then pay LS, you'd pay alot more than Lulu charges. They may pad the fees, but I think in the end it probably works out close.

They're honest about what they are, and don't make allusions to being 'accepted' or the quality of your book, the way vanity houses do.

Dusk
10-21-2007, 05:09 AM
"Not everyone get the 'published by you' package, but they all have to go through LS to be printed."

Everyone who purchases the Global Distribution package, I think you mean. Folks who buy only the Basic Distribution package are printed by another printer, whose name isn't publicized.

"If you were go to it yourself, and purchase an ISBN and then pay LS, you'd pay alot more than Lulu charges. They may pad the fees, but I think in the end it probably works out close."

Indeed, you have to pay $270 for twenty ISBNs to work with Lightning Source, which is a hefty fee if you're only publishing one book, or if you're anticipating on selling no more than one or two hundred copies. So Lulu is a good choice for tiny press runs; I even know traditional self-publishers who use Lulu for things like review copies. It's also a good choice if you only want to sell through your own Website and through Lulu's storefront. It's an excellent choice for e-books; I don't know of any other online bookstore that takes only a twenty percent cut.

For larger sales of POD books that will be distributed through other sources: No, the padded printing costs add up. So does the fact that Lulu automatically sets the distributors' percentage at fifty percent, while at Lightning Source you can set it lower (and will want to, if you're only selling to online bookstores). Look at the figures at the beginning of this thread again; the profit from a Lightning Source book can be something like twenty times greater than the profit from a Lulu book.

But the other side of the coin is that Lightning Source usually works with publishers or experienced self-publishers, and so it doesn't make things easy for beginning self-publishers. That's what you get for the fees you pay to Lulu: ease of use. And a lot of authors consider that worth the money.

What's troubling isn't that these different alternatives exist - different approaches are good, because not every shoe is going to fit everyone - but that a lot of self-publishers don't know what the different alternatives are. So I think that laying out what you will get from different services is helpful.

AndyPolyak
10-27-2007, 10:57 PM
They asked me to to process my PDF myself and to create the bookcover. I did everything. Then they asked me to change my book cover. I did. Then they said they couldn't get my uploaded bookcover. I uploaded again. Then they told me that there were some problems with my PDF-text. I made another PDF. Then I discovered that I had to buy and approve my own book to launch its sale. I live in Eastern Europe, and I don't want to wait for the book to come from USA. It takes more than a month to come to my door.

Having run out of any reasonable patience, I left Creative Space even before learning that their ISBN is actually a fake - by the way, thank's for the information!

Lulu provides authors with a nice service where everything is automatic: resizing pages, creating a suitable PDF and a book cover etc. I don't have to buy each book of my own under compulsion to launch its sale!

The books are not so expensive at Lulu. My paperback narrative costs only $9,60 (http://www.lulu.com/content/1357480) - I don't know the situation in other countries, but it is not a great sum in my country. Good school textbooks cost $12 and more, actually everyone can afford to pay.

Lulu is better, to my mind. If Creative Space doesn't stop trying authors' patience, they are doomed to fail.

AndyPolyak
10-27-2007, 11:07 PM
Oh, sorry, I forgot to say something important about self-publishers.

As one writer told me at Livejournal, money should always flow from the publisher to the author. Not considering promotional packeges which are not compulsory. If you are asked to pay for publishing your book, think twice! It can be a scam.

In my opinion, the author's work is a sufficient contribution. If publishers want writers to pay, they may write books themselves.

Dusk
10-31-2007, 06:41 AM
"Then I discovered that I had to buy and approve my own book to launch its sale."

I'm afraid that Lulu has the same requirement for its Global Distribution books (though not for the books that are sold only at its Website, which I gather is the route you took). I'm sorry to hear that you had so many problems in uploading the book to CreateSpace.

"My paperback narrative costs only $9,60 (http://www.lulu.com/content/1357480) - I don't know the situation in other countries, but it is not a great sum in my country."

It's a good price in the U.S.; trade paperbacks are usually more expensive than that. I think your novel is shorter than the average SF/F novel, which is why the price worked out so well for you.

Congratulation on getting your book out!

Christine N.
11-03-2007, 03:52 AM
I think in many ways Lulu is like the 7Eleven. You know the milk and bag of chips are more expensive than in the grocery store, but when you need them at 2 am, it doesn't matter. They're open and just around the corner.

You're paying for convenience.

Strongbear
01-01-2008, 02:16 AM
I have a question since I've been using Lulu so far to print my book, and through their distribution plan, I have managed to have my book listed on Amazon. With Createspace, where the OP says that this POD book that is produced is ONLY listed on Amazon, does that mean that you are only allowed to list your book on Amazon and not anywhere else (ie you have to remove it from other places like Lulu)? Or does it mean that that particular version of it (with its own unique ISBN) will only be listed on Amazon?

Can I, for example, have 2 simultaneous versions running - 1 on Lulu and 1 on Amazon's Createspace? And if so, will I need to slightly change the title of my book for the Amazon POD version (eg have it saying "special edition" or something to distinguish it from the original Lulu version which has also ended up on Amazon?

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Julie Worth
01-01-2008, 03:08 AM
Or does it mean that that particular version of it (with its own unique ISBN) will only be listed on Amazon?

That sounds right.



Can I, for example, have 2 simultaneous versions running - 1 on Lulu and 1 on Amazon's Createspace? And if so, will I need to slightly change the title of my book for the Amazon POD version (eg have it saying "special edition" or something to distinguish it from the original Lulu version which has also ended up on Amazon?

I think you can have both on Amazon, even with the same title, but why would you want to? That would only dilute your ratings.

Strongbear
01-01-2008, 05:30 AM
That sounds right.



I think you can have both on Amazon, even with the same title, but why would you want to? That would only dilute your ratings.

Well I paid for the distribution plan from Lulu which would put my book onto Amazon, B&N and Borders. Now that it's finally on Amazon, I don't want to remove it again. First off, it would mean that this distribution plan was all for nothing (I already have a couple of reviews for that Lulu version that is on Amazon), and second, if the Createspace version of my book is only on Amazon.com (if that's all that Amazon Advantage allows) then it means that some people in the UK who only use Amazon.co.uk might not buy that version anyway.

Yes, it could possibly dilute the ratings but it could also spread the book further afield with more than one version being offered. I'm going to have 2 separate covers anyway and one in UK English and one in US English so that the two are distinct enough from each other.

Other questions I have for people who have used this Createspace service are:

1. If you are assigned an ISBN number by Createspace, should you then put that ISBN number inside the book on the copyright page (just as you would for Lulu)?

2. If you have previously listed a different publisher on both the interior of the book and on the outer cover, should you also remove this from the new Createspace version?

3. What happens with the new Createspace barcode if you have your own cover art (I had a one-piece wraparound cover that I made for my Lulu version which has a space for a barcode)? Will I have to generate a new barcode and put that on the new cover myself? Or will Createspace do this somehow (although I can't see how they would on your uploaded cover unless they are actually adding to the artwork themselves with their own barcode).

4. Createspace (or Amazon Advantage) don't have a Live Chat service do they where they can provide assistance? I can't see it anywhere. That was something that I found particularly useful with Lulu when I was creating and uploading my files in order to get it right.

Any help on these matters would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Strongbear
01-05-2008, 02:58 AM
I'm looking into Amazon Advantage and Create Space. I know with Amazon Advantage that you would normally have to send them a copy of your book every time a customer places an order. But what happens with Create Space? Since it's POD, does that mean you are still paying for the shipping cost to that customer (say it's shipping from the US to somewhere in China, for example)? Shouldn't the customer be paying for shipping costs since any customer who buys another book on Amazon would be paying for shipping costs himself? It's not normally Amazon who pays for that.

Does anyone know about this? How exactly does it work if you use Create Space? What costs are you actually incurring?

OpheliaRevived
03-27-2009, 06:55 PM
What are your thoughts?

MickRooney
03-27-2009, 07:31 PM
What are your thoughts?

OpheliaRevived,

There is a thread already here on createspace you might want to check out. I also did a review of this companies services a while back here (http://mickrooney.blogspot.com/2009/02/createspace-reviewed.html).

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76597&highlight=createspace