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Shady Lane

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Here's a PM I just sent Danger Jane re. the problems I'm having plotting my WIP. I was wondering if you guys could help me out.

No idea is too stupid/simple/ridiculous. I hate what I have now and I totally need an ending. So here:

"So, basically my theme is about breaking away, and when it stops being about freedom and starts being harmful. Like, how many ties should you cut so you're an individual but not in isolation?

So Griffin and Zach and a few other boys are turning into robots thanks to Griffin's parents. Griffin's father is actually all of their biological fathers...so they're all half brothers. All the boys are growing wings, but they're coming in crooked, painfully--so they need what's called an alignment every few days. The only person who knows how to align them is Griffin's father. So every few days they need to go up to Griffin's house and get aligned. Problem--Griffin's Dad won't align them unless they complete their missions...which are basically jobs that he tells them to do. They're "setting people free" jobs...burning down grocery stores, freeing prisoners, all these weird morally ambiguous things.

Zach had to burn down a seven eleven...totally didn't want to. But eventually he had to, because the pain from not getting aligned was getting too bad. He just gave in, burned it down, and got aligned where I am in the book right now.

So here's what I was planning on happening: After a few more minutes, all the boys minus Griffin were going to plot to kill Griffin's parents--Zach being the leader. When they do, they realize that Griffin's Dad was a robot as well--created, just like they were, by Griffin's mother. But they kill her, fine, and then wait to see what happens. Griffin is furious--not because his parents are dead, but because he wasn't included and he really just wanted to be part of something. This is important. I think.

But anyway...nobody hurts anymore. They're not getting aligned, because the only person/robot who could align them is dead, but they're not in any pain. All except Grififn.

See, that makes no sense. There's no REASON. So they have to kill someone in order for the pain to go away? WHY? That makes no sense! So I might change that.

And everything after this I really don't like...there was going to be major disorder in the group, Griffin and Zach would leave, searching for someone who could align Griffin. They'd find Zach's crazy mom, who would fix Griffin, and Griffin, in order to totally cut ties/not ever hurt anymore, kills her. Zach, in his last truly human moment, begs him not to. He doesn't listen.

Yeah. It sucks. I know.

Do you have any better ideas? I'm kind of picturing this scene where they go free all the students at their school...but I don't know how that would really end, and I don't know how to get my theme across. "

Thanks, guys.
 

roskoebaby

Here's a PM I just sent Danger Jane re. the problems I'm having plotting my WIP. I was wondering if you guys could help me out.

So, why does Griffin still hurt? That's my question. Why is he different than everyone else? Or special.

Were they all human once and then slowly began to evolve?

Oh, I like that they have to kill to stop the pain keep that.
 

Shady Lane

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Yeah...they all started turning into robots around late-puberty. At 15/16 or so.

I have NO IDEA why Griffin keeps hurting. It would be cool to have a good reason, otherwise I'm open to changing it to all of them keep hurting, or nobody hurts anymore...the idea about killing is cool, but....


oooh. okay.



idea.


What if Griffin gets to kill anyone he wants...and he chooses their old principal?


And the go to school and set everyone free?


And it would be so frickin bittersweet because it's like the end of education.


ooooh


ooooh


thoughts?
 

JoNightshade

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Okay, how about this. Let me see if I've got it right. Griffin's dad is actually a robot (or half robot or whatever) being controlled by Griffin's mom. Griffin needs to be different. Why not make it his father's one attempt at being human? IE, his dad is enslaved to the mom, but he attempts to make Griffin more human than the other teens. For some reason (techno mumbo-jumbo) it means that the process of changing and getting wings hurts him more than anyone else. Maybe he didn't notice it before because he always gets taken care of; maybe he needs the treatment twice as often as anyone else. Maybe his dad attempted to slow his development but couldn't stop it entirely. Something like that.
 

roskoebaby

I love the school image. Like Pink Floyd comfortably numb....

I like that only Griffin hurts, it's mysterious. But why...hmmm. Why is he special?

What if, oh my, what if the dad that was his half-brothers' dad, was never his dad at all. Maybe the killing is hard for him because he wasn't meant to do it. What if he's supposed to take out his brothers?
 

roskoebaby

Okay, how about this. Let me see if I've got it right. Griffin's dad is actually a robot (or half robot or whatever) being controlled by Griffin's mom. Griffin needs to be different. Why not make it his father's one attempt at being human? IE, his dad is enslaved to the mom, but he attempts to make Griffin more human than the other teens. For some reason (techno mumbo-jumbo) it means that the process of changing and getting wings hurts him more than anyone else. Maybe he didn't notice it before because he always gets taken care of; maybe he needs the treatment twice as often as anyone else. Maybe his dad attempted to slow his development but couldn't stop it entirely. Something like that.


Aw, you beat me to it Nightshade :) great idea!
 

Shady Lane

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Cool idea, Jo, seriously, but I don't think it's gonna work. Griffin wasn't created by his Dad, really...he was created by the Mom through the Dad. Dad is full robot...basically incapable of real motivations, functionally just an extention of Mom. She created Griffin Sr. and all the kids to be basically her robot army--to bring about her twisted ideas of justice.

This is such a weird ms, and I'm totally embarrased that I made you guys read the description/think about it because the entire thing is so bizarre.
 

Shady Lane

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I'm leaning towards Griffin is different only because he didn't help kill his parents. He's the only one who hasn't murdered someone..."cut the strings," so to speak, so he can't be free like the rest of them.

He only lives with the Dad because he's the youngest....he was the last seed his Dad spread. Then he came home and settled down with dear wifey/creator.
 

roskoebaby

This is such a weird ms, and I'm totally embarrased that I made you guys read the description/think about it because the entire thing is so bizarre.

Dude, don't feel bad. I just posted a scene where a girl beats up her best friend with taco meat.

No, you description is fine. Bounce ideas. What if the mom intended for Griffen to be the leader and that's why he still hurts. Well they all hurt, but he hurts more because he's becoming stronger. He has to seek something out before he fully forms and becomes a murderous monster!
 

roskoebaby

I'm leaning towards Griffin is different only because he didn't help kill his parents. He's the only one who hasn't murdered someone..."cut the strings," so to speak, so he can't be free like the rest of them.

He only lives with the Dad because he's the youngest....he was the last seed his Dad spread. Then he came home and settled down with dear wifey/creator.


Okay. So he still hurts because he hasn't killed yet! That's your answer! Now he grapples with murder or freedom. School anyone?
 

Shady Lane

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Okay YES. So. They destroy the school. Set the kids free. Death to education. Welcome to freedom, anarchy, etc. And then they FLY AWAY WITH THEIR PAINFREE WINGS OMG.

Thanks so much guys. Seriously. I owe one to you, roskoe. Thanks much, babe.

And Danger Jane and Jo of course were much help.

I get a point for this.


Shady: 2
Shady's Sucky Life: 4
 

JoNightshade

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What if Griffin gets to kill anyone he wants...and he chooses their old principal?


And the go to school and set everyone free?


And it would be so frickin bittersweet because it's like the end of education.


thoughts?

I have to say that doing any sort of school killing makes me really uncomfortable and I think it's going to make a lot of readers uncomfortable, no matter if the dude is evil or not.

Also I wish Griffin would discover that he DOESN'T have to kill people to be free. Maybe the price he pays in not killing people is the pain. Maybe freedom is painful and that's the lesson he learns. When you seek to reduce your pain by doing things, you're enslaving yourself all the more.

Yeah, I know, it's your story, get my paws off of it. ;)
 

JoNightshade

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Okay YES. So. They destroy the school. Set the kids free. Death to education. Welcome to freedom, anarchy, etc. And then they FLY AWAY WITH THEIR PAINFREE WINGS OMG.

No offense, but have you ever seen what happens when people kill their educators? It's not freedom, it's hell.

Okay, paws off now. :)
 

roskoebaby

I have to say that doing any sort of school killing makes me really uncomfortable and I think it's going to make a lot of readers uncomfortable, no matter if the dude is evil or not.

Also I wish Griffin would discover that he DOESN'T have to kill people to be free. Maybe the price he pays in not killing people is the pain. Maybe freedom is painful and that's the lesson he learns. When you seek to reduce your pain by doing things, you're enslaving yourself all the more.

Yeah, I know, it's your story, get my paws off of it. ;)

Got a point about the school thing, but I like the image of them running out. What if you make the vice principal seriously sinister than it can be a bit more accepting.

I too wish that Griffin could be good. But, if he's meant to be bad, let him be a bad mother f....r. ;)
 

Shady Lane

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Haha, no problem, babe. It's supposed to be squeamy. This freedom is not good, just like it's not good that they have to set prisoners free to get aligned. There's good freedom and bad freedom--that's the point of the book.

And it's not pain he can live with...it's not like "aw man, kind of sore." It's debilitating. I made the process of alignment intentionally resemble smack and smack withdrawl...to echo Zach's smack addict brother.

None of the students will get hurt, if that helps. I don't even think we'll see the principal die, just Griffin rising afterwards.

And, yeah, they're not good boys...they're turning into machines. By the end of the stories, they're hardcore metal.

That's another thing....I'm throwing in sort of a metaphor about what society (and yeah, school) does to our teenage boys. Turns 'em into robots.
 

Shady Lane

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Anarchy = not good, Jo.

And Griffin's not bad, per se...he's a boy out of options. Turning into a robot.
 

Shady Lane

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Haha, thanks. That was my starting thesis. The freedom thing just sort of evolved. Damn symbolism.
 

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I would think bad freedom would be freedom obtained through well...badness.

Like murder.

Maybe his brothers are painfree...but not exactly. Like something else bad but slow happens to them.

And Griffin hasn't killed anyone, but he sees what's happening to his brothers, and he doesn't want to end up like that. He has to find a new mechanism for freedom.

And I guess the logical side of me (they ARE robots) wants a reason for killing somebody to make the pain stop.
 

Shady Lane

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Like a mechanical reason? Yeah, me too.

It's what they were created to do, really. They were created to free the people. Free ALL the people, and everything that implies. It's not good. It's not happy everyone-love-each other freedom. It's chaos.
 

writermom

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Does school have to be "school"? Can’t it be another name for a brainwashing/ recruiting / evil army training facility? In which case, it’s not anarchy… it’s freedom.
 

Danger Jane

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So it's programmed into them.

But you can affect the wiring of your brain. There's studies on it. Maybe they struggle for that. To be honest, the burning school isn't doing it for me. I'd be confused at the end, I think.
 

Shady Lane

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Nononononononono I don't want it to be a good thing.

Okay clearly I'm not coming across here so I'm just going to stop before I get myself really upset.
 

roskoebaby

Okay, what I'm thinkin is Griffin gives into the darkness. Or freedom. I like the thing about it being a brainwashing facility rather than being called a school. I know what you're going for, but just renaming it will make it less icky.

Should the reader feel like they've lost him in the end when he flies away. Like he's changed and you have that, No! Feeling?
 

Shady Lane

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But Zach's changed in the same way. It's first person from him.

No, it's not a brainwashing facility. That's not how it works. I'm sorry, guys, but it's not like I'm advocating school shootings or something. The first ending was Griffin pushing Zach's mother into a metro bus. I need that same feel. It's supposed to be SO out of line. It's not supposed to be GOOD. I've just got to shut up now.
 
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