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PattiTheWicked
08-30-2007, 02:23 AM
I just blogged (http://paganwiccan.about.com/b/a/000064.htm) about this, but had to share it with everyone. So much asshattery in the executive office :::sigh:::

Stewart's Widow Not Invited (http://www.lvrj.com/news/9441071.html)

sunna
08-30-2007, 02:30 AM
SNARL.


I need a dartboard with that man's face on it.

paprikapink
08-30-2007, 03:09 AM
I would have thought the Las Vegas Review Journal would know the difference between "tenants" and "tenets."

PattiTheWicked
08-30-2007, 03:24 AM
's okay, I read a story in a Florida newspaper the other day where the reporter wrote that someone had been "wrestling gaiters".

small axe
08-30-2007, 03:49 AM
Well, if it weren't just an unintended oversight due to Bush-administration incompetence (and c'mon, we're talking Bush here), and a purposeful slight against the widow of a soldier who died serving his country ... that sucks.

Other members of the soldier's family were invited, and "Bush knew" he was a Wiccan, though?

So why were they invited, if the intent was to diss a Wiccan soldier?


"I would have loved to have spoken to President Bush and ask him why he dishonored my husband," she said. "That's probably why I wasn't invited."

But I agree with everyone who'd be disgusted that a President would show disrespect to the widow of any fallen soldier, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Wiccan, etc who died defending our country.

I don't even care about Bush's personal opinion of another religion -- he's there representing our nation and a soldier who died for our nation. Period. Respect is due.

davids
08-30-2007, 03:54 AM
D do not know anything of the Wiccan religion but if that fella cannot keep his own disses clean he should stay the hell out of the way-but after all he is a God fearing man-peace to all and to all a good night-and to the righteous-I say good hunting and let the peace lovers in peace-oh and Warriors in general are peace lovers-that's why they are warriors-luv Dave

PattiTheWicked
08-30-2007, 07:19 AM
Well, the widow herself is Wiccan too, although other members of Stewart's family are not. But I think the biggest reason she wasn't invited was because she made it clear that had she attended, she would have criticized the president. His handlers have always tried to keep a distance between W and the people who would tell him what a sucky job he's doing.

Regardless, it's disgusting that she was singled out for exclusion.

Carole
08-30-2007, 03:16 PM
I can say it's disappointing, but that wouldn't be entirely accurate. For there to be disappointment, there would also have to be some level of surprise.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-30-2007, 03:28 PM
I'm Wiccan and Republican with no great amount of love for Bush... but it was a Sheehan Conundrum: meet with her and let her turn the meeting into an opportunity for her to make her point with the president at the expense of the others present? Or leave her out so the other family members get their moment? Despicable, yes, to exclude her if it's her religion, but was it her religion or her intent? How much respect does her attitude and primary choice of venue for confrontation show for the families of the other widows?

There's a time and a place. That meeting wasn't it.

Jenan Mac
08-30-2007, 10:09 PM
How much respect does her attitude and primary choice of venue for confrontation show for the families of the other widows?

One could make the argument that not continuing the fight for religious freedom is a disservice to those who swore to protect the Constitution.
One could also make the argument that, when the Commander in Chief picks and chooses which widows and families he chooses to recognize, it's less about honoring sacrifice and more about the photo op and shoring up flagging approval ratings.
If...yanno...one had become jaded and cynical by the sheer immensity of outrageous behavior in Washington.

PattiTheWicked
08-30-2007, 10:18 PM
OFG, I do see where you're coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree. A president is an elected official, and he has an obligation to listen to the voices of his constituents, whether he likes what they have to say or not, and whether or not he feels the venue or timing is appropriate.

If one dead soldier is the victim of discriminatory treatment by our government, then it affects all of them, all the widows, and all Americans. Every single one of us, of every spiritual path, should be concerned.

Plot Device
08-30-2007, 10:31 PM
Anyone got a picture of that tombstone? I'd like to see it with the pentacle on it.

My-Immortal
08-30-2007, 10:59 PM
OFG, I do see where you're coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree. A president is an elected official, and he has an obligation to listen to the voices of his constituents, whether he likes what they have to say or not, and whether or not he feels the venue or timing is appropriate.

If one dead soldier is the victim of discriminatory treatment by our government, then it affects all of them, all the widows, and all Americans. Every single one of us, of every spiritual path, should be concerned.

Boldfaced mine:

In regards to the boldfaced text-yes, I agree, a president is an elected official and should be obligated to listen to the voices of his constituents whether he likes what they are saying or not --- BUT --- are the other people present, the other widows, family members etc. obligated to listen too? I also understand your point about discrimination hurting not just one, but all, but perhaps there's a time and place to demonstrate against discrimination AND a time and a place to grieve. Perhaps it was thought that this event was the time and a place for the latter not the former.

It's unfortunate that such tragedy has to be endured by anyone.

Take care all -

PattiTheWicked
08-30-2007, 11:07 PM
Anyone got a picture of that tombstone? I'd like to see it with the pentacle on it.

There are a couple of photos here, although there are flowers on the headstone, you can still see the pentacle. http://www.circlesanctuary.org/liberty/veteranpentacle/qecelebrations.htm


Boldfaced mine:

In regards to the boldfaced text-yes, I agree, a president is an elected official and should be obligated to listen to the voices of his constituents whether he likes what they are saying or not --- BUT --- are the other people present, the other widows, family members etc. obligated to listen too? I also understand your point about discrimination hurting not just one, but all, but perhaps there's a time and place to demonstrate against discrimination AND a time and a place to grieve. Perhaps it was thought that this event was the time and a place for the latter not the former.


I agree, to an extent, and I'm certainly not saying that Roberta Stewart should have gone in there screaming and waving a sign at all the other widows or anything. She did, however, say that she wanted to ask the president why he had disrespected her husband, and I think that's a legitimate question, rather than a demonstration. It's just a shame that any family has to go through this sort of thing, regardless of their faith.

RumpleTumbler
08-30-2007, 11:08 PM
Anyone got a picture of that tombstone? I'd like to see it with the pentacle on it.

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1498/cimg9361cf0.jpg

My-Immortal
08-30-2007, 11:15 PM
I agree, to an extent, and I'm certainly not saying that Roberta Stewart should have gone in there screaming and waving a sign at all the other widows or anything. She did, however, say that she wanted to ask the president why he had disrespected her husband, and I think that's a legitimate question, rather than a demonstration. It's just a shame that any family has to go through this sort of thing, regardless of their faith.

It is a legitimate question, but perhaps fearing what might happen after the question was asked, the president, or his handlers, decided not to extend an invite to this woman -- and perhaps since this could (or has already...?) end up in court with some sort of discrimination case, the president/handlers decided it was best to leave those type of legitimate questions for a courtroom, and not at an event where the president chose to meet with greiving widows/family members.
Thanks for the discussion.

JoNightshade
08-31-2007, 12:00 AM
When I saw this I too guessed that they wanted to avoid a public spectacle. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. If I'm one of the other grieving families, I don't want this solemn affair being interrupted by some woman raking the president over the coals about her husband's tombstone.

That said, perhaps Bush might have arranged for a private meeting with her, or sent her a little note beforehand. Simply not inviting her is either a stupid oversight or just rude.

Williebee
08-31-2007, 12:12 AM
Immortal, it already was in court. Here's a link (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usfl&c=military&id=11868) to more info.

There is no legitimate excuse for her not being invited, handlers or otherwise. It disrespects not only her, but every service member and military family member.

My-Immortal
08-31-2007, 12:17 AM
Immortal, it already was in court. Here's a link (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usfl&c=military&id=11868) to more info.

Thanks for the info/discussion.

Take care all -

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-31-2007, 12:28 AM
How much respect does her attitude and primary choice of venue for confrontation show for the families of the other widows?

One could make the argument that not continuing the fight for religious freedom is a disservice to those who swore to protect the Constitution.
One could also make the argument that, when the Commander in Chief picks and chooses which widows and families he chooses to recognize, it's less about honoring sacrifice and more about the photo op and shoring up flagging approval ratings.
If...yanno...one had become jaded and cynical by the sheer immensity of outrageous behavior in Washington.

Now, I never said I wasn't jaded and cynical... :)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-31-2007, 12:31 AM
OFG, I do see where you're coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree. A president is an elected official, and he has an obligation to listen to the voices of his constituents, whether he likes what they have to say or not, and whether or not he feels the venue or timing is appropriate.

If one dead soldier is the victim of discriminatory treatment by our government, then it affects all of them, all the widows, and all Americans. Every single one of us, of every spiritual path, should be concerned.

And I never said I wasn't concerned. I've been concerned - downright disgusted, thoroughly dismayed, and pissed off, as well - I'm just saying it wasn't the time or the place, for the sake of the families.

The fact he won't talk to either Sheehan or Patrick's widow at all is another issue entirely.

PattiTheWicked
08-31-2007, 03:08 AM
That said, perhaps Bush might have arranged for a private meeting with her, or sent her a little note beforehand. Simply not inviting her is either a stupid oversight or just rude.

That's what I think too. It was a huge breach of etiquette to completely ignore her. If there was concern that she might publicly say something to embarass the president, he could certainly have met with her in private.

Getting one's husband blown out a helicopter in service to his country should entitle one, at the very least, to a brief audience with the commander in chief.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-31-2007, 04:46 AM
I agree. They've done a beautiful job keeping these 'private' meetings with families private - when they want to. So... how come they couldn't meet with Sheehan (not that I'm a fan of hers) or Patrick in 'private'? It doesn't have to be a group meeting and it doesn't have to be a photo-op.

Hell... he could call the woman. Don't presidents have phones?

Sarita
08-31-2007, 04:53 AM
This just in:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070830-1353-nv-wiccanwidow.html

FALLON, Nev. – President Bush called a Fallon military widow on Thursday and apologized for her not being invited to a private meeting earlier this week in Reno, when he met briefly with the families of fallen Nevada soldiers.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-31-2007, 05:34 AM
Dang! I guess they DO have phones!

Williebee
08-31-2007, 08:33 AM
hmm. and the Army took the blame.

It's possible, so long as we believe that the White House doesn't vet people that the President meets with.

But kudos nonetheless for making the call.

Vanatru
08-31-2007, 03:44 PM
Dang! I guess they DO have phones!

Yeah, but I bet someone else dialed the number.

"Mr. President, your call is ready."



Kudos to Circle for helping out like they did.

Guess we will have to wait and see if this happens again with other non-majority-faith families or just an isolated incident.

plaidearthworm
08-31-2007, 10:05 PM
Along these same lines, there was an excellent interview in the latest issue of New Witch with a pagan soldier serving in Iraq. Read it if you get the chance, because it is a forthright and very interesting piece.

HeronW
01-26-2008, 02:46 AM
The man died for his country. Snubbing his wife drops Dubya another notch and he's already way into the minuses for so many stupidities.