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View Full Version : If someone has no talent, do you tell them?



JoNightshade
08-30-2007, 12:02 AM
I have an extended family member who is supremely tone deaf. Nobody ever had the heart to tell her, so she got to find out for herself when she signed herself up for a solo in the talent show. She ran off the stage sobbing.

Occasionally, I run across stuff people (mostly newbies) have posted in SYW or elsewhere on AW that is just... well, awful. Often this can be attributed to youth or inexperience and people help them out a bit and send them on their way.

But what if someone just honestly, truly lacks talent? Do you tell them?

clockwork
08-30-2007, 12:03 AM
Are you trying to tell me something? :eek:

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:04 AM
Just tell me, okay? I can handle it. No need to start an anonymous thread.

/ stifling a sob /

JoNightshade
08-30-2007, 12:05 AM
Pfft. Writers are so insecure.

scarletpeaches
08-30-2007, 12:05 AM
Well, you know me, I'm subtle and I don't like to hurt people's feelings...:D

*ahem*

I know someone who's tone deaf and he insists on singing - loud. In a monotone. Ear-aching, it is. It's got to the point where being nice and polite and subtle doesn't work. Now people tell him, "Shut the f*** up; you're making my ears ache." He doesn't listen.

At first, I'd be polite and encouraging when it comes to the good points and make suggestions for improvement. Secondly, I'd just be polite. Thirdly, I'd say, "Look, are you even bloody listening to my opinion when you've asked for it?" (As would be the case in SYW).

Haggis
08-30-2007, 12:06 AM
Are you trying to tell me something? :eek:


Just tell me, okay? I can handle it. No need to start an anonymous thread.

/ stifling a sob /

It's okay. There's lots of other stuff you guys would probably be great at.

davids
08-30-2007, 12:07 AM
I am never asked-hence no problemo-Hmmm-I wonder why? Come to think of it-hey why the hell's nobody axin? Oh I see-so sorry-me be quiteeto!

StoryG27
08-30-2007, 12:09 AM
Well, you know me, I'm subtle and I don't like to hurt people's feelings...:D


:roll: Oh, I needed a good laugh.


I think "talent" takes work. So, I wouldn't tell them they have no talent, I'd just try to direct them to places or people who could help bring to surface their "talent." But if they wanted my honest opinion of how good I thought they were, I'd give them it. Don't ask unless you really want to know.

CaroGirl
08-30-2007, 12:09 AM
When it comes to music, a good approach is to record them, either on video or audio only. I'll bet they'd realize how awful they are in a hurry.

For writing, that's much tougher. There's a woman in my crit group who's really good at telling people when their work isn't good, and why (which is great). Sometimes people believe in themselves when they really have no reason too. Those people might have to learn the hard way: Rejection City.

I'm a step ahead. I don't believe in myself at all!

clockwork
08-30-2007, 12:14 AM
It's okay. There's lots of other stuff you guys would probably be great at.

Like taxidermy.

For the record, I could never be a dick about telling someone they have no talent. I'd always find a way to make it sound positive. I may think they're hopeless but... there's always courtesy.

Cathy C
08-30-2007, 12:15 AM
I consider both singing and writing to be skills, rather than talents. I truly believe that people can be taught to write, and write well, just as people who are tone deaf can be trained (with enough patience and practice) to sing a different note than the one they hear when it's played. It's sort of like typing. We don't, by nature, think of the letters of the alphabet in the order they are on the keyboard. But we're trained to press down with a forefinger when we THINK the letter "f." It's not instinctive. I knew a girl in school who didn't have a soloist voice, but had an adequate choir voice--once the teacher figured out that she was hearing a tone about a note and a half off from what was being played. She was able to train her to "sing sharp" to reach the proper note. And, if she was a little off, the combined strength of the section could make up for the slight difference.

But the individual has to be willing to learn and to recognize that a) they're below average at the start; and b) they will have to work that much harder than the "average guy/gal." But if dsylexic writers can be bestsellers (and I know several) then a lack of natural wordsmithing ability can be corrected too. JMHO, of course. :)

Rosie_81
08-30-2007, 12:15 AM
In my experience, I keep my views to myself even if the person really stinks at what they do.

If they think they are great at it and get some satisfaction at thinking they're great at it then so be it. Why should you come across as the bad guy to say they're rubbish?

A while ago I read some writer's work and to be honest it was awful. And I didn't tell them that (hangs head in shame). It bored me rigid. I didn't lie and say it was great but I didn't tell the truth either.

Siddow
08-30-2007, 12:15 AM
I am tone-deaf, too, but I love to sing and do it often and loudly. If you told me I was not talented, I'd start howling like a loon and say, "I KNOW!" bwa-ha-ha. Sometimes people have great enthuiasm for things they don't do well.

But if it's something I'm passionate about, trying to make a career of it, I would prefer to hear what you feel are my shortcomings, so I know what to work on. Leave the soul-crushing to the agents and editors.

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:18 AM
In all seriousness, I don't think I should or could judge. I didn't start out writing great prose and singing like a pro... so what do I know? The only thing I can offer is what I do know (about the craft), and if someone asks nicely, I will tell them.

Also, I do believe it's none of my business. Really. It's none of my business. I think everyone should find their own truths and paths, and if they are too thick to figure it out in within their lifetimes, it's still none of my business.

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:19 AM
I think the bottom choice. Anyone can learn to do something if they put their mind to it, so I don't think being mean about their lack of experience/skill is a good thing.

However, I like it when people are honest with me. I can only hope that if my writing sucks, somebody tells me up front, so I don't prance around with a happy face (since that's SO like me), and make a fool of myself thinking my skill is up to standards.

But that's my personal opinion. Most people hate being told they suck/are bad/need to improve at something.

scarletpeaches
08-30-2007, 12:19 AM
In all seriousness, I don't think I should or could judge. I didn't start out writing great prose and singing like a pro...

Also, I do believe it's none of my business. Really. It's none of my business. I think everyone should find their own truths and paths, and if they are too thick to figure it out in within their lifetimes, it's still none of my business.

Unless they solicit your opinion, wouldn't you say?

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:21 AM
I voted #3, but someone really needs to tell The Emperor of Wyoming he stinks.



;)

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:24 AM
Unless they solicit your opinion, wouldn't you say?

I could very well decline. Just because I am asked doesn't mean I'm obligated to answer.

Still, it's none of my business if the person does or doesn't have what it takes. Who knows? I'm not going to be the one who crushes their dreams.

God knows, many people could have crushed my dreams along the way. So many opportunities. My English stunk. I'm not going to do the same to someone else.

If they ask for advice, I will tell them what *I* think could improve their writing/singing/whatever, if I feel qualified. But not in the context of "it doesn't matter because you can't write. Give up."

davids
08-30-2007, 12:30 AM
I say pour salt on em like the slugs they are--HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHETC ETC-of course nobody axed me!

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:31 AM
I say pour butter on 'im like the crustaceans he is-HAHAHAHAHAHETC ETC!!!

Haggis
08-30-2007, 12:32 AM
It really depends on what they ask for. But I would never tell anyone "you're a terrible writer and you should give it up." I will tell them where I think they've made mistakes, and then offer suggestions as to how they might improve. Lord knows, I'm still trying to learn myself.

davids
08-30-2007, 12:32 AM
Ouch!!!!!! Serious here for a second-I agree with Ray-pour butter on me and lick me Petunia-HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHLICK LICK-HIC HIC!!!!!

jennifer75
08-30-2007, 12:33 AM
I read this as "if somebody has talent..." and voted Heck yea...

Can I have my vote back?

Del
08-30-2007, 12:33 AM
It really depends on what they ask for. But I would never tell anyone "you're a terrible writer and you should give it up."

:e2cry:

But you said...

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:35 AM
I read this as "if somebody has talent..." and voted Heck yea...

Your PM was very much appreciated. Unlike that Sca... someone. / still sobbing, pouring butter on davids /

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:35 AM
Ouch!!!!!! Serious here for a second-I agree with Ray-pour butter on me and lick me Petunia-HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHLICK LICK-HIC HIC!!!!!

OH...MY...

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:36 AM
I could very well decline. Just because I am asked doesn't mean I'm obligated to answer.

Still, it's none of my business if the person does or doesn't have what it takes. Who knows? I'm not going to be the one who crushes their dreams.

God knows, many people could have crushed my dreams along the way. So many opportunities. My English stunk. I'm not going to do the same to someone else.

If they ask for advice, I will tell them what *I* think could improve their writing/singing/whatever, if I feel qualified. But not in the context of "it doesn't matter because you can't write. Give up."

Hey, Ray, do I suck?

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:36 AM
OH...MY...


And you got him before he deleted it! :hooray:

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:37 AM
seriously i dont know what to do with that lobstermeatloaf except tearing him from limb to limb and drench in rich thick buttery sauce and chives

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:38 AM
Hey, Ray, do I suck?

Is that a trick question to get me banned?

Haggis
08-30-2007, 12:38 AM
:e2cry:

But you said...

Your case was different.









:D

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:39 AM
seriously i dont know what to do with that lobstermeatloaf except tearing him from limb to limb and drench in rich thick buttery sauce and chives

Damn it, Ray! I'm supposed to be meeting some Bavarian couple at Tijuana Flats in an hour, and now you've got me craving Red Lobster! :roll:

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:40 AM
And you got him before he deleted it! :hooray:

I catch Davids in the act every time. Muhahaha!
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/sex024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

davids
08-30-2007, 12:43 AM
seriously i dont know what to do with that lobstermeatloaf except tearing him from limb to limb and drench in rich thick buttery sauce and chives


Jay Barr reached over and gently stroked the smooth, glistening forehead of the man lying in bed next to him. Even with the air-conditioning humming through the penthouse, the beads of sweat grew as Jay watched. Like tiny, living pearls, they shuddered indecisively, first to the right, then to the left, until they rolled too far and gravity pulled them down the cliff side of the young man's chiseled face, occasionally allowing them to stop to build small, shimmering pools in the comers of his mouth. As the sleeping Adonis turned to face Jay, the liquid that had gathered above the Kirk Douglas cleft spilled over, sending rivulets carousing down on either side of his Adam's apple to their final destination in the hollow above his clavicle. Jay put his face down close to this gathering of sweet salt, filled the space with his tongue, and drank it dry.

An eggcerpt from the Gay times of a cross-dressing lobster written by me uncle Bernie who has been accused of being a Scallop-kisses to all and to all a rather buttery intoxicatable ripping of lobster limbs-I cannot vouch for the voracity of the above but it was written by a one armed Scallop so I am not responsableible-HAHAHHAHAHAHHETC ETC AND BURP AND HIC!!!!I think the genre is Gay YA since everything has to be genrecized around here-I know Ray-I know!!!! I am not gay I have a wife and lust after Miss Scarlet's bum-that is in case any of you preverts was wondering!!!!

Oh and go ahead tell him he has no talent-come on-tell him-huh huh???!!!!

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:46 AM
seriously i dont know what to do with that lobstermeatloaf except tearing him from limb to limb and drench in rich thick buttery sauce and chives

Don't cut it off there!

Do go on with the rest of that succulent story...

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:47 AM
I catch Davids in the act every time. Muhahaha!
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/sex024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


Good work dork!

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:48 AM
Holy shit, Davids. If that's you're writing: Please sir, I want some more.

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 12:48 AM
suddenly i have a craving for steaks.

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:51 AM
Nooooo!

You're a woman's man, Ray.

davids
08-30-2007, 12:51 AM
I think Ray is cuming along just fine-perhaps with a bit of oglio and pepperonata-a smooth white wine-calve meat I need calve meat!

Azrael it is-I have to admit I made up the story about my cross dressing uncle Scallop-so you think there is a place for me in YA? Terri I luv you the dorkstress supreme-I am also terribly fond of Azrael but I think she can out sport me and that would be kinda sorta humeyeleeatin-luv as well Azrael love as well-christ I am so full of shi-er-love!!!

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:51 AM
Nooooo!

You're a woman's man, Ray.

There's a reason for the phrase: The best of both worlds. ;)

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:54 AM
I think Ray is cuming along just fine-perhaps with a bit of oglio and pepperonata-a smooth white wine-calve meat I need calve meat!

Azrael it is-I have to admit I made up the story about my cross dressing uncle Scallop-so you think there is a place for me in YA? Terri I luv you the dorkstress supreme-I am also terribly fond of Azrael but I think she can out sport me and that would be kinda sorta humeyeleeatin-luv as well Azrael love as well-christ I am so full of shi-er-love!!!


You're a five star dork in my book. ;)

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 12:55 AM
I think Ray is cuming along just fine-perhaps with a bit of oglio and pepperonata-a smooth white wine-calve meat I need calve meat!

Azrael it is-I have to admit I made up the story about my cross dressing uncle Scallop-so you think there is a place for me in YA? Terri I luv you the dorkstress supreme-I am also terribly fond of Azrael but I think she can out sport me and that would be kinda sorta humeyeleeatin-luv as well Azrael love as well-christ I am so full of shi-er-love!!!

I dunno about YA, but I'd read it. :D I'm pretty much hooked on anything that involves two guys in...uh...compromising situations.

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/dance003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

davids
08-30-2007, 12:56 AM
That means soooo much to me darling-you have no idea twatsoever!!!!

davids
08-30-2007, 12:59 AM
I dunno about YA, but I'd read it. :D I'm pretty much hooked on anything that involves two guys in...uh...compromising situations.

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/dance003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


Butt what about the artistic merit-it must take a long time to write these things correct-not about 3 or 4 minutes which it took-the above post by the way-the twatsoever was directed to the queen of dorkdom!!!!

Maybe there is a place for me in Gay novel writing even though I am not and want to stroke Miss Scarlet's bum-hmmm-what portals do appear in the dark and misty ocean of sexual poivoisification!!!!

writerterri
08-30-2007, 12:59 AM
Who, me or her or both of us? :D

davids
08-30-2007, 01:01 AM
Who, me or her or both of us? :D


I would enjoy us if you do not mind-it might be interesting do not you think so-oh and by the by-Ray was telling me I wrote a bunch of shit in the nicest way-he prefers steak-see he is a man of honor and sticks to his buns-a fine example of letting me down subtle like and not hoitin me feelers!

writerterri
08-30-2007, 01:03 AM
:roll:

writerterri
08-30-2007, 01:04 AM
I'm off to work, dorks. Thanks for the good time. Leave the tip on the counter.

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 01:07 AM
Butt what about the artistic merit-it must take a long time to write these things correct-not about 3 or 4 minutes which it took-the above post by the way-the twatsoever was directed to the queen of dorkdom!!!!

Maybe there is a place for me in Gay novel writing even though I am not and want to stroke Miss Scarlet's bum-hmmm-what portals do appear in the dark and misty ocean of sexual poivoisification!!!!

Oh yeah, I won't read BAD writing just because the topic makes me happy. I prefer good story, good writing, and a wealth of bisexual/gay men. I also enjoy tarnished angels. So...yeah. http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/angelic014.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Sassee
08-30-2007, 01:07 AM
I think I walked in on the wrong part of this thread...

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 01:09 AM
I think I walked in on the wrong part of this thread...

Yeah...uh, sorry 'bout that. I'm heading for a cold shower.

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 01:12 AM
I'm not going to tell nodavidsbody that they dont got no talent

KTC
08-30-2007, 01:14 AM
i would want somebody to tell me. i would hate to think i did, if i didn't.



I would gently suggest to somebody that they need to improve.

akiwiguy
08-30-2007, 01:15 AM
Jay Barr Davids reached over and gently stroked the smooth, glistening forehead butt cheeks of the man woman lying in bed next to him. Even with the air-conditioning various kitchen appliances used for bizarre purposes humming through the penthouse Dundee flat, the beads of sweat grew as Jay watched. Like tiny, living pearls, they shuddered indecisively, first to the right, then to the left, until they rolled too far and gravity pulled them down the cliff side of the young man's chiseled face, occasionally allowing them to stop to build small, shimmering pools in the comers of his mouth. As the sleeping Adonis turned to face Jay, the liquid that had gathered above the Kirk Douglas cleft spilled over, sending rivulets carousing down on either side of his Adam's apple to their final destination in the hollow above his clavicle. Jay put his face down close to this gathering of sweet salt, filled the space with his tongue, and drank it dry.


OK, haven't got time for proper critiquing, but a couple of suggestions in the first sentence or two to get this rather promising exceprt into some sort of marketable state.

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 01:18 AM
OK, haven't got time for proper critiquing, but a couple of suggestions in the first sentence or two to get this rather promising exceprt into some sort of marketable state.

As much as I loved the first one...the crit changes had me laughing like crazy.

davids
08-30-2007, 01:41 AM
OK, haven't got time for proper critiquing, but a couple of suggestions in the first sentence or two to get this rather promising exceprt into some sort of marketable state.


Thanks akiwiguy-you have opened the shower curtains-I certainly see where I have made some errors here and will certainly consider all of your helpful suggestions-will post again once the considerating is accomplished-oh and by the way-very funny and fuck you-JUST KIDDING TAKE IT EASY-FIGURATIVELY AND NOT LITERALLY-DISAPPOINTED? Really like Azrael I am laughing heartily and it is a vast improvement!!!! Oh and luv ya Ray!!!!

akiwiguy
08-30-2007, 02:18 AM
fuck you-JUST KIDDING TAKE IT EASY-FIGURATIVELY AND NOT LITERALLY-DISAPPOINTED?

Disappointed? Hell no, I'll take figurative, metaphorical, whatever's going whore that I am.

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 02:19 AM
Well, all this silliness and gay lobster porn prompted me to go and write 800 good words in an hour, and kudos to you silly <notalent-ahem> folks and especially the crazy hardshell bunny for touching my muse and now i'm going to go find some food while rambling like a lunatic about crusty sects

davids
08-30-2007, 02:46 AM
Well, all this silliness and gay lobster porn prompted me to go and write 800 good words in an hour, and kudos to you silly <notalent-ahem> folks and especially the crazy hardshell bunny for touching my muse and now i'm going to go find some food while rambling like a lunatic about crusty sects

Good on ya Ray-FOOD! HMMM! You gotta good idea there Ray-steak and Scallops might just do the trick-uncle Herbie shut the F up will ya-I aint gonna eat ya-I need young meat scallop wiff me steak-where the hell is Homer-MMMMM! STEAK Gay Ned Flanders-HMMMM-oh heaven Marje pass the salt will ya-luv Dave

dclary
08-30-2007, 02:52 AM
I've done it here. I'll do it elsewhere. Dclary tolerates fools, but not talentless hacks.

davids
08-30-2007, 02:57 AM
I've done it here. I'll do it elsewhere. Dclary tolerates fools, but not talentless hacks.

That is such a relief!

dclary
08-30-2007, 03:17 AM
That is such a relief!

I also tolerate lobsters, mostly. ;)

davids
08-30-2007, 03:20 AM
I also tolerate lobsters, mostly. ;)


Whew double ditto conservative libertarian yet marginally liberal dem-whews-well mostly anyway!!!

reigningcatsndogs
08-30-2007, 03:26 AM
In the past twenty years, I have seen so many people hurt by sharp, judgmental comments from people, that I could not do it myself. If I, in good conscience, could not say something remotely positive, I would say nothing at all. My taste is certainly not anyone else's, and so I have no idea what might appeal to someone else.

My son loves to sing. He sings all day long, and he sings loudly. He is productive when he sings, but more importantly, he's happy when he sings. I realize that it might not appeal to anyone else in the world. He and I both know that he will never have a career singing. When his father comes home at the end of the day, my son disappears into his bedroom, because he is not allowed to sing because he is terrible at it (this edict coming from a man who dropped out of dance lessons after one session because he needed the music turned off because it distracted him, for God's sake). To see how deflated Tony is from the criticism is the hardest thing in the world to watch.

If someone's writing is so bad that you can't stand to read it -- don't read it. It's really simple. It's made even more simple here because of the ignore key. I realize that most people here have a desire to be published. Believe it or not, the publishers will let you know if you suck so bad. In the meantime, I would like to think that rather than slamming someone's work, we would try ways to help, recommend some references, or perhaps gently redirect to a different passtime.

rugcat
08-30-2007, 03:42 AM
I truly believe that people can be taught to write, and write well, just as people who are tone deaf can be trained (with enough patience and practice) to sing a different note than the one they hear when it's played.I'm not sure I agree. I've had experience with this. I've seen manuscripts that are so bad in every conceivable way it's hard to know where to start. Ones that make Atlanta Nights seem like a literary masterpiece. (Slight exaggeration)

But the main problem arises when one of these writers literally cannot see the difference between their work and the very best work out there. You can point it out, but they just don't see it. "Different tastes," they say.

I don't believe these people will ever be writers. Ever. But I don't tell them that -- I never judge them as writers; I concentrate only on the specific piece they've written. I point out what I see as areas to be improved, and try to find something positive to say. But I never tell them it's good, either.

P.S. This thread is hilarious. Sorry to interrupt with a serious post.

davids
08-30-2007, 03:49 AM
In the past twenty years, I have seen so many people hurt by sharp, judgmental comments from people, that I could not do it myself. If I, in good conscience, could not say something remotely positive, I would say nothing at all. My taste is certainly not anyone else's, and so I have no idea what might appeal to someone else.

My son loves to sing. He sings all day long, and he sings loudly. He is productive when he sings, but more importantly, he's happy when he sings. I realize that it might not appeal to anyone else in the world. He and I both know that he will never have a career singing. When his father comes home at the end of the day, my son disappears into his bedroom, because he is not allowed to sing because he is terrible at it (this edict coming from a man who dropped out of dance lessons after one session because he needed the music turned off because it distracted him, for God's sake). To see how deflated Tony is from the criticism is the hardest thing in the world to watch.

If someone's writing is so bad that you can't stand to read it -- don't read it. It's really simple. It's made even more simple here because of the ignore key. I realize that most people here have a desire to be published. Believe it or not, the publishers will let you know if you suck so bad. In the meantime, I would like to think that rather than slamming someone's work, we would try ways to help, recommend some references, or perhaps gently redirect to a different passtime.


That's mah lady tawkin intelligant again-I like it lady-well said-however one must always hold the gay porn option open-I might have to earn a living one day!!!! How about that old saying-if you do not have anything nice to say-shut the fuck up!!!! I am often asked to read other folks stuff-no kiddin really-I work from the it is my opinion only-I get a pretty good idea of the direction the person would like to go and am usually asked if the work is marketable-yah really no kidding-in some ways that is easier to answer gently but honestly than -Sir-um-do you think I have any talent-do you think I write well-no you suck now get out! Just Kidding-see what I mean you lovely kind lady-some things in life are just easier to handle when one is not caught up in egocentrictic ways-I am happy as a writer as I never think whether I am good or not-whether I can write or not-actions I s'pect speak louder'n words-do not tell anyone but I really care for people especially those trying even in vain to bring some beauty into an ugly world that does not have to be 'cept for the ugly folks-and I aint talkin bout looks as you well know! So maybe just gettin easy with folks before you drop them like a Black Widow-maybe just talkin softly tellin em how ya feel what makes YOU tick-like preferences and such instead of saying something evil like hey maybe you should stick to washin dishes-maybe hey if it feels good do it-they are not hurting anyone-yes it is possible to hurt someone by not telling them the truth-but after the slaying of Mr. Brown here-you know the incredibly rich successful Mr. Brown-well like my old gramma used to say-hell who knows maybe the bastard knows sumpin ah do not! I love your post dear lady-you are truly a gentle yet passionate soul and let your child sing as he will-it beats the hell out a killing babys and stuff like that-luv Dave

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 04:13 AM
I don't have time to read your whole post, davids so forgive me but all I read was the word

ugly

William Haskins
08-30-2007, 04:16 AM
the results of this poll are shocking.

reigningcatsndogs
08-30-2007, 04:17 AM
let your child sing as he will

When he was four years old, he still didn't talk at all. His singing, despite what anyone else thinks, is music to my ears. He also writes at a grade three level despite the fact that he is in Grade 11, but he reads at a higher level. If he decides he wants to write, for whatever reason, I applaud that as well. He's autistic -- everything he is able to do, from feeding himself to tying his shoes, to singing some stupid damn John Williamson song without getting even one note right, is a gift.

Because I don't know where everyone is coming from, what challenges they have faced, what they have had to overcome in the process, I would never believe that I was in a position to effectively dash their dreams. If they respect my opinion so much to ask for it, I would like to think that I would not abuse that position of respect to hurt them. Perhaps they received no education or were illiterate until only a few years ago, and they use writing as a means of improving their communication skills? Maybe they suffered a stroke or an illness that makes it that much more of a challenge. If they did, that's their business, but they should at least be commended on making the effort to try writing. There is never need for rudeness.

akiwiguy
08-30-2007, 04:25 AM
If I, in good conscience, could not say something remotely positive, I would say nothing at all. My taste is certainly not anyone else's, and so I have no idea what might appeal to someone else.




Your whole post was very good RCnD, and this chunk is a reason why I really don't like courses or groups where everyone is obliged to critique everyone else's work. There are instances where it is simply impossible, and I hate being put on the spot of having to come up with positives when I just can't see any. I don't say that in a smart-arsey way, we're all at some point in a learning curve and hoping that we'll make it in some way, but I can't see how being nice for the sake of it helps anyone. I'd rather say nothing, and leave it for someone who may have seen something that I couldn't to comment.

davids
08-30-2007, 04:28 AM
Your whole post was very good RCnD, and this chunk is a reason why I really don't like courses or groups where everyone is obliged to critique everyone else's work. There are instances where it is simply impossible, and I hate being put on the spot of having to come up with positives when I just can't see any. I don't say that in a smart-arsey way, we're all at some point in a learning curve and hoping that we'll make it in some way, but I can't see how being nice for the sake of it helps anyone. I'd rather say nothing, and leave it for someone who may have seen something that I couldn't to comment.


That is true-me for instance have made it already and I never ever get pissy even though I am older'n dirt-well said young man!!!!

JoNightshade
08-30-2007, 04:34 AM
Since I started all this nonsense, I might as well weigh in.

I think in some cases it is okay to tell people that they stink. In the case of my relative, for one. If someone is doing something purely for the pleasure of it-- singing in the shower, whatever-- then I say good on them. I wouldn't mention a thing and in fact I would probably applaud them.

But when someone starts to make it their goal in life to do something that clearly isn't their talent, they should know going in what they are up against. If someone had mentioned to my relative that she was tone deaf, she never would have embarrassed herself like that. Maybe she would have decided, "I don't care, I want to be a professional musician!" and then gone on to work really hard to overcome her tone-deafness, but at least she would have known the reality of her situation. I think it's a disservice to the people we love if we're not honest with them about where they are. So I'm not saying I would tell someone "You suck, you could never be a writer," but I think I would tell them, "Honestly, this is way below the professional level and you are going to need to work really hard if it's your goal to get something published."

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 04:37 AM
Don't get me wrong. If someone truly stinks and has an attitude like he or she is the best thing since sliced pudding and arrogant and obnoxious, I'll definitely tell them.

It's one thing not to crush dreams, it's another to mess with god-complex.

davids
08-30-2007, 04:41 AM
yes Jo you are of course correct and well stated-trying to be serious which hurts like hell-ouch! It is the way one tells another-we all know how to do that-there are no eggceptions-but when me be better and greaterer than you-then there is a problem-off to write more Gay porno now-I am so encowraged-even if Ray just read ugly-I can live with that Ray-really I can-honest injun-it don't hurt as long as ah keep me gun belt strapped down and my silver 44 ready fer action!!!

davids
08-30-2007, 04:42 AM
Don't get me wrong. If someone truly stinks and has an attitude like he or she is the best thing since sliced pudding and arrogant and obnoxious, I'll definitely tell them.

It's one thing not to crush dreams, it's another to mess with god-complex.


I only read God in this post!!

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 04:43 AM
now worship me

davids
08-30-2007, 04:44 AM
Is yer bum as cute as Miss Scarlet's it would be temtable if'n twer-maht be word a steak even!!

maestrowork
08-30-2007, 04:45 AM
its like butter

davids
08-30-2007, 04:51 AM
its like butter


i am truly Homerized-I can only say-HMMMM and argh!!!!

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 04:56 AM
i am truly Homerized-I can only say-HMMMM and argh!!!!

And Doh! ? I'm back btw...though if I want to keep my editing schedule I need to finish another chapter and a half tonight. *falls to the floor in spasms of laughter* Yeah...right. *sigh*

davids
08-30-2007, 05:17 AM
I think there are pills for editing out now-what up lady?

Danger Jane
08-30-2007, 05:28 AM
I said the fourth option...

but not necessarily because I think everyone has potential. I've already taught enough twelve year olds violin to know that everyone does not have potential.

It's less a no talent thing as a no drive thing. I had a couple of very talented students last year who had virtually no desire to play. One of them was kind of a weirdo. She made me want to bang my head into a concrete wall.

But yeah, I don't tell them, because sooner or later they'll A) figure out that they have no talent and move on or not, they could just work REALLY hard...

or B) not care enough to keep working. And quit.

Azraelsbane
08-30-2007, 05:38 AM
I think there are pills for editing out now-what up lady?

Not much, Crusty. If you've got an editing pill, please, pass it this way. I'll take any amount of crashing that goes with it, as long as when I surface this thing is done! ;)

davids
08-30-2007, 05:41 AM
Not much, Crusty. If you've got an editing pill, please, pass it this way. I'll take any amount of crashing that goes with it, as long as when I surface this thing is done! ;)


Hear ya there lady-in reality the only one I got is in a bottle-I have edited a bit-not for me-good luck!

Keyboard Hound
08-30-2007, 05:44 AM
When he was four years old, he still didn't talk at all. His singing, despite what anyone else thinks, is music to my ears. He also writes at a grade three level despite the fact that he is in Grade 11, but he reads at a higher level. If he decides he wants to write, for whatever reason, I applaud that as well. He's autistic -- everything he is able to do, from feeding himself to tying his shoes, to singing some stupid damn John Williamson song without getting even one note right, is a gift.

Because I don't know where everyone is coming from, what challenges they have faced, what they have had to overcome in the process, I would never believe that I was in a position to effectively dash their dreams. If they respect my opinion so much to ask for it, I would like to think that I would not abuse that position of respect to hurt them. Perhaps they received no education or were illiterate until only a few years ago, and they use writing as a means of improving their communication skills? Maybe they suffered a stroke or an illness that makes it that much more of a challenge. If they did, that's their business, but they should at least be commended on making the effort to try writing. There is never need for rudeness.


Beautifully said. And who can know where anyone else is coming from?

Concerning writing when considering a critique, I might skip over a post that I don't think holds any promise, but I would never tell the person it stinks. I know of one writer whose first readings made me want to laugh, but after a few years of trying, she's writing some great stuff. A lot of it has to do with being willing to learn and having the motivation to keep on trying when others would quit. I would never want to be the one to squash another's hopes.

William Haskins
08-30-2007, 06:08 AM
slush piles are built on the mentality of option 4.

Devil Ledbetter
08-30-2007, 06:09 AM
I just tell Haskins they have no talent, and then he tells them for me.

Susie
08-30-2007, 07:47 AM
My hubby told you to talk to me about my singing, didn't he.:)

EriRae
08-30-2007, 08:21 AM
I wish someone would tell me I have no talent as an insurance agent and end my dream of ever becoming an underwriter right here, right now...usually, I'm pretty good at my job, but they've cut back on the calls we receive at night, so my attention span is horrible for the calls that we do get...and my stats for the month show it.

I have professional ADD...is there any help?

Anyone out there hiring for a stay-at-home position? (I refuse to send money, btw).

BardSkye
08-30-2007, 09:07 AM
"If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all."

Orders from my mother.

lfraser
08-30-2007, 09:53 AM
I'd have a hard time telling someone I thought they had no talent. I know I'd be crushed if someone told me that my writing was hopeless. Come to think of it, that's probably one reason I haven't posted anything on SYW.