An emotional, spiritual and personal dilemma. Please HELP.

I'm so sorry.
I would stick by MY beliefs and let her do the DO-ing. It's her ultimatum-not yours. (and very unfair!)

sorry to hear about your quandrum.

from this distance -- and i don't mean to slight your best friend -- it sounds like a power play. if her friendship cannot withstand the burden of allowing you your freedom to believe what you believe, in my opinion it does not meet the first standard of true friendship.

what i would do? i would fight back -- Christ is said to have forgiven anything and anyone. her rejecting your friendship based on your set of beliefs is therefore un-Christ-like, hence by doing that she is actually betraying his teachings...

you should never allow another to bully you into changing your belief system -- it would dampen your own spirit in the long term.

i know that going it alone is the hardest thing. but you must keep your core intact.

it is not impossible that some day you might find your own way to a given religion and embrace it -- many go through such major changes. but this must always take place on your own terms, of your own conviction, otherwise you'd be giving your power away.

sounds like the influence of a new pastor (or whatever). I find Christians tend to be a bit faddy when someone new turns up (especially if they are more hard line), and tend to feel guilty that they are not as hard line as the new guy (or gal). Stick to your guns. I would think it will pass. If your friendship is that strong she will come back to contacting you soon enough.
It is about power, guilt and validation (if she wins SHE must be right)

Hmmm...sounds like the only thing missing are bombs strapped to her middle with her thumb over an ingnitor. You are considered the infidel, and if you don't convert ASAP, she will blow up your friendship. Gotta love Christianity. All or nothing. And don't get me started on the hypocrasy of their opinions regarding Muslims. Study history. Christianity taught the hate; taught the slaughter as it absorbed weaker religions through fear and brutality and death. Entire cultures have been lost.

This is why I tossed out my belief of Christianity. It's nothing more than a superpower disguised as a religion that has decimated thousands for over 3000 years. A tool used to conquer, rarely, if ever, has it been truly associated with peace.

If your sister in law/friend felt the same way about the friendship that you do, she would embrace whom you are, not your beliefs. Sounds like the friendship is one-sided; furthermore, abusive.
One does not need to be physically assaulted to be abused. Place the gift of your friendship in the hands of someone who will appreciate all that you bring with it. A true friend won't care you nationality, color, sexual preference, nor religion. They will be intrigued by the person you are, not what they want you to be. What a boring world if we all became one nation, one culture...can you say Stepford?

If you start changing for everyone, at the end of the day--I promise you--you will have lost your identity. This will result in a profound journey to darkness within.
Never sacrifice your soul. Never sacrifice what makes you- YOU.

Personally, I believe there's something all powerful out there. I believe he/she has had the incredible ability to be visible to all peoples in whatever way they would accept: The Great Spirit, God, Allah, Zeus, etc.

I also believe that man has taken what could have been an amazing ability to achieve peace and decimated the purity of religion with his need for absolute domination--no matter the century/millennia.

Stand your ground. Believe in yourself. Hold your gift of friendship in higher esteem; it's not a bargaining tool, it's something to be cherished. Sounds like you need to snatch it back, mend what's been bruised, and give it to someone else that's more appreciative.

And, if you REALLY want to be cold--it shortens your Christmas list.

Karey

There's nothing you can do. My answer is to tell her, "How can I just believe, when I simply don't? I'm not not believing to be a bad person."

Likely, this drawing lines in the sand is a phase. (Not her faith, just her ultimatum sale.) If it's not, then you two weren't going to have very much in common after a while anyway.

You should probably stop calling her and give it some time.

Melisande said:

I'll try to put this dilemma to you short.

It's like this;

My Sister-In-Law, also my best friend and confidant, is a devoted Christian. Until now, as it has seemed to me, she has accepted my atheism, though with hesitation. Now things have changed. I am being corned into an impossible situation of "Chose Christ, or Get Lost.

As a hard atheist, or non-beleiver, I do not know what to to do, really. I have told her that I am willing to listen to whatever she has to say, but that I find it unlikely that she will be able to convert me.

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I don't know, I can see where you stated it as just being factual, but that sounds like some sort of challenge.

Being willing to listen to "whatever someone has to say" means you probably expect them to say things based on previous experiences in the friendship, but it appears things have changed. Her belief now appears to be more important than the friendship. I can see where she could develop that priority, and it can only be bad for the friendship. I remember when a friend tried to push Herbalife on me, it really felt icky.

Melisande said:

She responded by saying that she can not continue this friendship unless she can "missionary" (or whatever you wish to call it).

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My first thought is to say "I'm sorry to hear that" in a bit of a sarcastic way, but it certainly appears to be true.

Melisande said:

I love her. She means a lot to me. I wouldn't like to disappoint her, but to be honest I couldn't even begin to pretend that I believed in "The Christ" as she calls it.

Now, I have gotten the impression that eithet I convert, or I lose her friendship. To me that is being more or less confronted with an ultimatum. I'm not good as those things. Feel like I have been pushed into a corner.

No matter what I will still love her. But I am scared that she will put her belief-system between us if I don't even pretend to take hers under consideraton. I am also scared that she will influence her husband, MY Hubby's brother, to distance himself from us.

What would YOU do???

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Quite frankly, and as much as it may hurt, let her go and look for more friends, especially ones who are compatible with your beliefs or who at least "agree to disagree." Be sure to discuss the situation and your fears with your husband, so at least he won't be surprised if he sees his brother acting differently toward the two of you.

Wow, thats really cruel. Really, I guess the only thing you can do is tell her that for the well being of your conscience , you cannot pretend to believe something you dont.I mean I cant really think of anything else you could do. She will either accept it or she wont.

My sympathies. I've had family members pull some version of this one on me before, and it's never fun.

Painful as it may be, the best bet is probably to just state your position and then let her work it out for herself: hopefully she'll eventually realize that friendship can survive a difference in beliefs (and can in fact benefit by it); if she doesn't, then no amount of argument or compromise on your part will get her there.

Just remember that this is her crisis, not yours. You won't be doing either one of you any favors if you let her make it yours.

Good luck.

I hope you don't mind a Christian perspective here.

I think oscuridad is right in that some new influence in her life precipitated this, although it may not be a new pastor. It could be a new bible study group or simply a new friend who has recommended a tough-love approach. Unfortunately, this approach is antithetical to everything the gospels stand for.

You might want to approach it her on her level. The bible speaks clearly that this is the wrong approach.

First of all, you can't pretend a faith you don't have. That is the rankest form of hypocrisy and Jesus had very nasty things to say about hypocrisy. Mark 7:6 "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.'" Ask her if she would have you be a hypocrite.

Secondly, remind her of the Parable of the Sower (Mark 4:1-20, Matthew 13:1-23, and Luke 8:1-15). The seed (of the Gospel) will fall on all sorts of ground. It will take root in some and it won't in others. It's not the sower's responsibility to make the seed grow, only to cast the seeds. Your soil just isn't ready for it yet (and perhaps may never be ready), but that's not her responsibility. But it IS her responsibility to continue to sow seeds, which she can't if she cuts you off. Romans 10:14 says: "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"

I don't know if you'd be comfortable with this approach or not, but it gives her a biblical basis to reconsider her actions.

If she is a true Christian she should have some respect for the 'golden rule' (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) that is, pay you the respect of accepting you as you are..

Whatever you do, don't compromise your own ideals and ideas to suit hers. Her beliefs are her business, and no-one else's; your beliefs are your business, no-one else's (though she will have a hard time accepting that since fundamentalist Christians are taught they must proselytise all the time).

Stick to your point. It's your skin you're living in. Clothe it the way it suits you best. I hope you don't lose her love and friendship, but if you do, that's the price you may have to pay for preserving your integrity.

I agree with Roger on this. I live in the center of the buckle of the bible belt and I've found that there are two types of church-goers here--those who feel the need to convert a person to their canon of choice and those who are of the "live and let live" sort. It sounds like your sister-in-law has moved from the latter school to the former. Whether it was by her own choice or through peer pressure (and yes, a pastor's influence can be deemed peer pressure, IMO) doesn't really matter. What matters is you're trying to save your relationship while not compromising either your own beliefs or hers. That's a tricky matter. I think Roger's got the best suggestion, to take a stand on her own field of play. There's a lot to be said for free will, and those who try to force the issue, under the guise of "Missionary" or "Ministry" aren't being true to their own faith. You don't need to yell or scream. Just keep repeating one or two key bible passages and hold your ground. Eventually by sheer repetition, it'll sink in. No doubt your words will be taken to whatever "higher" authority your SIL is speaking to, and you'll be met with counter action. If the new data sways you, fine. That's that free will thing again. If not, then not and you'll have to let her go her own way. I think if your brother-in-law hears both sides of the story, and if he's the reasonable sort, he'll stay out of it and not allow the rift to grow too large.

Good luck, and so sorry you're having to go through this.

Could you get someone else involved as a mediator?

My situation is somewhat analogous to yours, and if my devout SILs ever tried to coerce me into conversion, I think my first course of action would be to appeal to another family member to try to diffuse the situation.

I mean, if you've been close friends for a long time, you've got to have plenty of things in common -- even if religion isn't one of those things. Why is this issue suddenly so important to her? (Does she see you as a threat all of a sudden? Or, as others have mentioned, maybe it's a new influence in her life, etc.?)

I'm not sure if it's totally smart to drag others into it -- it might be a bad idea, in fact, depending on the specifics. But (for me) there are a few family members who would make great mediators (they are neither religious nor non-religious, if that makes sense). If you have someone like this in your family, maybe getting that person involved in the discussion as a neutral party could be helpful for getting the friendship back on track.

Melisande said:

As a matter of fact she has asked that both our husbands (the brothers) should be present when she does "her thing".

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Wow, a stand-off. Hm.

If I had to do that with one of my SILs, I think I would try to talk about religion as little as possible. After all, the discussion -- at its core -- is about the friendship and trying to save it. It's about getting to the bottom of her change of heart. What sort of need is she trying to fill? Is she feeling guilt? Is this an ego-boost for her? (In fact, this situation probably has a lot more to do with psychology than with religion.)

I would also be prepared to combat belief-related questions. ("Why don’t you believe?" "Do you know you're going to hell?") If she tries this tactic, I would do the same to her. After all, it's her ultimatum--she should be the one answering questions: "Why do you feel the need to destroy a great friendship?" "Do you know how upset I am to learn that you've decided to throw away our relationship?" "Do you know how much I'll miss you?" "Do you understand that this situation could potentially cause a permanent rift in the family?"

If nothing works, I would be ready to cut ties in a very pleasant, open-ended way: "I love you, but I’m really saddened by your decision. I'll always be here for you if you want to be friends again." And I think you should stress that this is her decision, not yours, when talking to other family members as well: "She has decided to stop being friends with me, and I'm sad about that. But I love her and I wish her the best, no matter what."

Melisande said:

As a matter of fact she has asked that both our husbands (the brothers) should be present when she does "her thing".

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don't like the sound of that much... what is her thing, btw? A last ditch attempt at conversion, a rationale? Curious, sorry. It is horrible you are being put in this position. Thankfully, this kind of exremism is rare in the UK. And please don't think there is any implication of greater enlightenment there - I think it is more to do with the amount of effort required - getting up early on Sundays etc. Good luck with it, for what its worth.

Melisande, for what it's worth, I agree with Roger's and Cathy's advice. I have recently gone through this with a formerly close friend who "disfellowshipped" me when we left the church we'd been attending (her husband is an elder). No matter how they disguise it in piety, it is not the love I read about in the Bible--nor is that type of ultimatum theologically sound. Your best approach is to gently but firmly stand your ground, and not let her manipulate you. You could have her look up John 6:44 ("No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him..."), to remind her that conviction as well as conversion is ALL God's work, not hers--but if that doesn't work, for the sake of family unity, try to maintain a stance of love and acceptance regardless of her behavior. Either she'll come around or not, but it's not really in your control, nor is it your responsibility to do everything at all costs to try to preserve a friendship built on such a shaky foundation.

The CINO take

Melisande said:

As a matter of fact she has asked that both our husbands (the brothers) should be present when she does "her thing". I am not opposed it. My Hubby is a CINO (I sincerely hope that SOKAL will accept that I use his abbrevation.) We have talked about this and he doesn't like this situation either. I have his support. He doesn't mind my being a non-believer. Actually he kind of likes it. Makes him feel special, he says, to be married to someone that he feels is "different".

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This is a hard question for a CINO. By the way I didn't invent the abbreviation, it came up in a Christian Sex Thread (CST)...anyway...the tough thing about being a CINO is there is no CINO consensus. Each CINO must answer to himself and if God chimes in...we have to doubt our lack of committment to not having much of a committment....so....I'll have to think about this.

The CINO solution

Melisande said:

I'll try to put this dilemma to you short.

It's like this;

My Sister-In-Law, also my best friend and confidant, is a devoted Christian. Until now, as it has seemed to me, she has accepted my atheism, though with hesitation. Now things have changed. I am being corned into an impossible situation of "Chose Christ, or Get Lost.

As a hard atheist, or non-beleiver, I do not know what to to do, really. I have told her that I am willing to listen to whatever she has to say, but that I find it unlikely that she will be able to convert me. She responded by saying that she can not continue this friendship unless she can "missionary" (or whatever you wish to call it).

I love her. She means a lot to me. I wouldn't like to disappoint her, but to be honest I couldn't even begin to pretend that I believed in "The Christ" as she calls it.

Now, I have gotten the impression that eithet I convert, or I lose her friendship. To me that is being more or less confronted with an ultimatum. I'm not good as those things. Feel like I have been pushed into a corner.

No matter what I will still love her. But I am scared that she will put her belief-system between us if I don't even pretend to take hers under consideraton. I am also scared that she will influence her husband, MY Hubby's brother, to distance himself from us.

What would YOU do???

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Actually I did have this situation come up one time. I was working with a brilliant mathematician and he wanted me to join his church...which was -- honest to God -- far too nice a place for me to be happy.

So we played basketball for my soul. If I won...I would be free to pursue God by going to dangerous places and not getting killed...otherwise, if he won....I would have to go to Church.

It was a helluva game: blood suffering and so forth (my own religious elements) and he lost. So I was free to live without the odor of sanctity and with the comforting if nasty possibility of being assassinated by my God on some adventure in His service.

Anyway, a challenge to a potentially lethal ordeal seems like a good way for a CINO to resolve issues of Faith. It may not work for you.

I swear, a friend just came to me last night with the same exact problem. I'll tell you what I told her:

a. People who deliver ultimatums will ALWAYS find some other ultimatum to deliver. Even if you DID concede and tell her what she wants to hear, sooner or later there will be something else for her to complain about.

b. You are not responsible for the happiness of other people. If she is unhappy that you're an atheist, that is HER choice. It's not up to you to change just to meet her needs.

c. If this person was NOT a relative, you'd have no problem with distancing yourself from her. If she's going to make this relationship toxic, then I wouldn't feel bad at all about letting her go her own way. Her choice.

Finally, your husband and his brother are adults. They'll manage to work things out between themselves. In the meantime, I'd echo what the other folks said, which is that you make clear that any rift in the family is because your SIL chose to make it this way. All you can do is offer to be there for her later on, if she changes her mind.

Good luck.

Sensible

Melisande said:

My Hubby was raised a Catholic. He does not go to church anymore. (I had nothing to do with that. He stopped going to church years before we even met.) But I know that, in his own quiet and charming way, he is a Christian, without the need to commit himself to a church.

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PattiTheWicked said:

I swear, a friend just came to me last night with the same exact problem. I'll tell you what I told her:

a. People who deliver ultimatums will ALWAYS find some other ultimatum to deliver. Even if you DID concede and tell her what she wants to hear, sooner or later there will be something else for her to complain about.

b. You are not responsible for the happiness of other people. If she is unhappy that you're an atheist, that is HER choice. It's not up to you to change just to meet her needs.

c. If this person was NOT a relative, you'd have no problem with distancing yourself from her. If she's going to make this relationship toxic, then I wouldn't feel bad at all about letting her go her own way. Her choice.

Finally, your husband and his brother are adults. They'll manage to work things out between themselves. In the meantime, I'd echo what the other folks said, which is that you make clear that any rift in the family is because your SIL chose to make it this way. All you can do is offer to be there for her later on, if she changes her mind.

Good luck.

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With a CINO husband and this advice from Patti...things ought to go well...but it just occurred to me that your SIL might have pulled this stunt not so much against you as to force her husband to pay more attention to her. Anyway she isn't your SIL, she's only your Husband's SIL...right?