Experiment for young writers

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Shady Lane

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Sooo...I haven't been putting my age in my queries. You can see the request rate in my signature; okay, not great. I'm going to do a batch with my age and see if the responses are better or worse. Hope it'll help the rest of you kids figure out if you want to put your age in or not. I'll let you know what happens.
 

Jimmer

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I am bewildered as to why you would think age would matter at all.

It's always about the writing. Always.

The rest is trivial detail.
 

RLSMiller

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Sooo...I haven't been putting my age in my queries. You can see the request rate in my signature; okay, not great. I'm going to do a batch with my age and see if the responses are better or worse. Hope it'll help the rest of you kids figure out if you want to put your age in or not. I'll let you know what happens.

Good luck Shady! I'm interested to see what happens with this.
 

reenkam

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I don't think it would matter very much. Though, once an editor told me that if you're under 18 they need parent permission to continue with a project. I don't know if that was just a policy for the publisher or something national, but that'd be the only think that might hold an agent back...
 

Jimmer

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I don't think it would matter very much. Though, once an editor told me that if you're under 18 they need parent permission to continue with a project. I don't know if that was just a policy for the publisher or something national, but that'd be the only think that might hold an agent back...

Yes, but they would only concern themselves with such details if they wanted to continue with the project.

Translation: it's always about the writing, first and foremost.

If the writing is strong enough, editors and agents will leap great barriers to make a deal. It's about the writing. Always.
 

Esopha

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If she puts her age on her query, they may be tempted to encourage her a bit. And by encourage I mean give helpful criticisms.

There can't be a negative side to this, so go for it. :)
 

Jimmer

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If she puts her age on her query, they may be tempted to encourage her a bit. And by encourage I mean give helpful criticisms.

There can't be a negative side to this, so go for it. :)

There might be a few rare souls in publishing who would offer encouragement based simply on age. But this is not therapy nor is it English Comp 101. It's a business where the editors/agents are looking for product they think will make money. They have very little time for niceties. They are not in business to educate and encourage. They are in business to make money. They do that by finding good writing. I don't imagine most editors/agents care if you've got four eyes and six legs much less what year you happened to be born. If your manuscript is marketable and they see a profit potential, they will find a way to make it happen. That is their job. Yours is to write the best novel you can.

I know how cynical that may sound, but I believe it's reality. Just write the best darn book you can possibly write. If it doesn't find interest in NY, figure out how to write the next one better. It's about the writing. Nothing else.

Best wishes,
Jimmer
 

Esopha

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Yes. We know that. We've done our research. We're competent young adults.

But the fact is, there are stories out there about agents and editors who give advice to young writers, because they want to encourage the writer. It's not going to help her get published, but there's no harm in experimenting. That's all I was saying.

And Shady, I was perusing the Rejection and Dejection forum, and your numbers seem to be right along the lines of everybody else's. Maybe you need to expand your querying horizons?
 

RLSMiller

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There might be a few rare souls in publishing who would offer encouragement based simply on age. But this is not therapy nor is it English Comp 101. It's a business where the editors/agents are looking for product they think will make money... If your manuscript is marketable and they see a profit potential, they will find a way to make it happen.

I can't help but think you are overlooking something. You say it's about marketability and profit potential, and yet completely ignore the money spinning potential of a young writer?

I'm not going to deny that at the end of the day, the manuscript is paramount, but neither am I going to deny that the author themselves is just as much of a product as the book they are selling. Authors that have an interest angle (e.g. young age, or unemployed single mother) are often pushed into the public eye. It's free publicity, and publicity helps sales.

Most, if not all agents are aware of this potential when considering a manuscript from a young writer. Sure, some might groan when they see it in a query, but this is because most young writers (and most writers in general) that submit to agents aren't very good. They won't throw down your query in disgust just because you dared to mention it, and if they do, well... tough. I'd imagine most will keep this tidbit of information at the back of their minds and go on to read sample pages just like any other submission. If they like those pages, and end up loving your whole manuscript, then the interest angle is only going to persuade them further.

Now, I'm not saying that telling an agent you're a young writer will automatically get you an offer of representation regardless of the quality of your writing. But still, you never know if the marketing potential might help persuade an agent. They are, after all, sales people.

At the same time, if you have a fantastic manuscript, then chances are they will pick you up regardless of your age. But if you have a 'great' manuscript, and they've seen four other 'great' manuscripts that week, who is to say that the prospect of helping a sixteen-year-old become the next Big Thing won't be enough to sway them to your side over the other four candidates?

We live in an image conscious world after all. It's no longer just about the book, it's also about the person behind it. Zadie Smith and Christopher Paolini are both writers that might never have had the same success if it hadn't been for their youth. Very few people think they are absolutely fantastic writers, but nevertheless having an interest angle helped pushed them into the spotlight, where they have since flourished.

Just my two cents. All in all, I'd say there's no harm in using anything you can to your advantage. It's a cut-throat business, so why not? Just don't make it obvious.
 
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Jimmer

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I agree that author age can be an interesting marketing tool. (Although, when I close my eyes and imagine standing in a book store aisle struggling to decide between buying one of two intriguing novels...and I discover one is written by a teenager, I'm not sure at all if that would necessarily sway my choice in its favor. Why should it?)

I would say, however, that marketing angles (including author age) are probably something like #150 on the list of important criteria for acceptance below mundane items like plot, characterization, thematic content, symbolism, grammar, etc.

I see far too many writers worrying needlessly about things that aren't really important. Learn the craft. The rest is trivial.

I believe 99.999% of material gets rejected because it doesn't meet the minimum quality standards of writing. That's a useful concept to ponder.
 

Soccer Mom

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Sooo...I haven't been putting my age in my queries. You can see the request rate in my signature; okay, not great. I'm going to do a batch with my age and see if the responses are better or worse. Hope it'll help the rest of you kids figure out if you want to put your age in or not. I'll let you know what happens.


You have 3 full requests and 1 partial! That's pretty darn good.
 

Danger Jane

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Jimmer, I've read from published authors that agents and editors would LOVE to get a really good, articulate, interesting MS from a young writer. Because come on, they all want to discover....THE NEXT CHRISTOPHER PAOLINI!!!

No, do not start talking about Paolini. We all know he's not that great.

Or maybe the next SE Hinton. Not only can they advertise this great child prodigy...they can look forward to years and years of working with this so-called prodigy assuming the book does well and the writer doesn't get a new agent.
 

Torgo

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I can't help but think you are overlooking something. You say it's about marketability and profit potential, and yet completely ignore the money spinning potential of a young writer?

I know what you mean, but it's rarely going to tip the scales from 'reject' to 'huge deal'. Zadie Smith had a lot going from her besides youth (she is an excellent writer, I reckon).
 

Jimmer

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Jimmer, I've read from published authors that agents and editors would LOVE to get a really good, articulate, interesting MS from a young writer. Because come on, they all want to discover....THE NEXT CHRISTOPHER PAOLINI!!!

No, do not start talking about Paolini. We all know he's not that great.

Or maybe the next SE Hinton. Not only can they advertise this great child prodigy...they can look forward to years and years of working with this so-called prodigy assuming the book does well and the writer doesn't get a new agent.

I'm pretty sure agents and editors would LOVE to get a really good, articulate and interesting ms from ANY writer. The rest is secondary.

Remember, a prodigy is only a prodigy if he/she can write well.
 

Danger Jane

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I'm pretty sure agents and editors would LOVE to get a really good, articulate and interesting ms from ANY writer. The rest is secondary.

Remember, a prodigy is only a prodigy if he/she can write well.

A true prodigy, yeah. But Paolini, for instance, is touted as a prodigy when his writing is very mediocre.

Of course they want a well written MS from any writer. I don't think I ever denied that. It's an added bonus if the writer is young enough to market as a prodigy, whether or not the kid's a genius. That's really marketable. People picked up Eragon because it was "written by a fourteen year old".
 

Danger Jane

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I know what you mean, but it's rarely going to tip the scales from 'reject' to 'huge deal'. Zadie Smith had a lot going from her besides youth (she is an excellent writer, I reckon).

Reject can mean a lot. I think we're assuming the writing is good enough to get accepted with enough perserverance. I've read Shady Lane's work and it is definitely salable. But an agent knowing she's sixteen might tip the scales just a bit from "I don't have time for this" or whatever to "I could definitely sell this."
 

Esopha

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It'd be nice to assume that writing is the only thing that matters. Unfortunately, the plethora of Jesus-scandal books that cropped up after the success of The Da Vinci Code proves that just isn't so.

Publishing is a business. You said that, Jimmer, but there's another angle to that statement. Like it or not, even if your manuscript is channelling Dickens, if it's not marketable, you're not getting published. End of story. Bye-bye.

So it's good to have a few extra brownie points here and there.
 

RLSMiller

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I know what you mean, but it's rarely going to tip the scales from 'reject' to 'huge deal'. Zadie Smith had a lot going from her besides youth (she is an excellent writer, I reckon).

I agree, but sometimes excellent writers with excellent manuscripts get rejected too. It's not necessarily a guarantee that you will get picked up.

As Jane said, there could be many reasons for rejection. It could be a case of "I think this manuscript is really well written, innovative and marketable, but so are the other five on my desk and I can't take them all." It could be "this manuscript is great, but I'm just not wildly enthusiastic about it and I have enough clients already." It could be anything. You never know if that one thing might be enough to tip the scales in your favour.

And that's why I personally would prefer to give an agent a full picture of what they're dealing with from the get go. Then it's up to them to make an informed decision based on all the factors. I'd rather not surprise them at the point of an offer of representation. And if they turn down an excellent manuscript from a sixteen-year-old just because they're young, that's their prerogative and I'm sure it will be their loss. Because for me, it's not just about representing the manuscript I've queried them with - it's about representing me and my career as a writer. It's about building a hopefully long-term relationship. And they should know all the facts before they decide to embark on such a relationship, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX

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Xx|Can't wait for the results, Shady. :D

I've been wondering about this myself, ever since I read an article by...I think it was an agent. They said they have criteria MSs have to meet for them to consider them, basically. If the author states that he/she is 15 or younger, that MS would go right into the "no" pile.

But to me, with the "prodigy" marketing, Paulini, et cetera, they'd love to get younguns.

So it's been a conflict. I'm just glad I'm not at that stage yet. Still, I wonder. Because I'd love to be published and if that would help, I see nothing wrong with it. But I don't want to ride my age like Paulini. I don't want to be "good for my age", I want to be good. Or better than that. And I certainly don't want an agent to not even consider it because of my age.

All that to say, can't wait for the results, Shady. :)
|xX
 

Legionsynch

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Sooo...I haven't been putting my age in my queries. You can see the request rate in my signature; okay, not great. I'm going to do a batch with my age and see if the responses are better or worse. Hope it'll help the rest of you kids figure out if you want to put your age in or not. I'll let you know what happens.

Good luck with this.
 

JLCwrites

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Xx|Can't wait for the results, Shady. :D

I've been wondering about this myself, ever since I read an article by...I think it was an agent. They said they have criteria MSs have to meet for them to consider them, basically. If the author states that he/she is 15 or younger, that MS would go right into the "no" pile.

But to me, with the "prodigy" marketing, Paulini, et cetera, they'd love to get younguns.

So it's been a conflict. I'm just glad I'm not at that stage yet. Still, I wonder. Because I'd love to be published and if that would help, I see nothing wrong with it. But I don't want to ride my age like Paulini. I don't want to be "good for my age", I want to be good. Or better than that. And I certainly don't want an agent to not even consider it because of my age.

All that to say, can't wait for the results, Shady. :)
|xX

Absolutely.
 

reenkam

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Paolini was 19 when Eragon was published (by the now publisher, not his parents.) That's not really a kid anymore, so I don't see how he could be called a child prodigy. He was past legal age, he could do everything but drink...and they didn't even use that when marketing, really.

I think age wouldn't really matter unless you were under 16, because the year it takes to get everything through means you won't be so young once the book's out.

I personally can only think of one book where the author's age was used in the marketing, and I think she was 13 (I can't remember her name...was it Amelia something??). I feel like past that, they don't really care and the only thing age might do is make them a little less likely to grab something right away if it's on the waiting queries pile.
 

Provrb1810meggy

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I'm using my age on queries this time around, but haven't with my last book. I'm getting about the same amount of requests, or maybe a little less, but I think that's due to the fact that my other book was a bit more high-concept than this one.

I really don't think it matters that much if you include it or not. By the time they get to your age, they should have seen a few paragraphs of writing, and they should be able to tell if they like it or not. If they do like it and then decide not to request based on age, they aren't somebody I want to work with. I want someone who is willing to work with me despite my age.

Trust me when I say that age will put off some, even after they read your manuscript and talk to you about possible revisions! Might as well be upfront about it.

Anyway, I'll be eager to see the results of your experiment, but I don't think anything can be totally conclusive unless there's a dramatic difference in requests. If it's just a few, the difference could just be in the agents you're querying!
 
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