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midlander
08-19-2007, 02:22 PM
I was released from my contract as of July 24, 2007.

Because of a blog I maintain a person wrote me that they had ordered my book on August 3, 2007. She received it this past week. She is sending me the receipt per my request.

I am also aware of another sale having been made after released from contract but don't have proof as yet.

My question is: Should I wait until the end of the next royalty period to see if PA pays me to begin some type of action or should I take action now? If action ow...what?

I do not have the funds for a lawyer, etc.

Peace,
Larry~

Bartholomew
08-19-2007, 03:19 PM
If they're selling your material without your consent, and you can prove it to a lawyer, maybe he'd take the case in exchange for a percent of your winnings.

Julie Worth
08-19-2007, 04:41 PM
If they're selling your material without your consent, and you can prove it to a lawyer, maybe he'd take the case in exchange for a percent of your winnings.

A percent on the sale of two books???

Marie Pacha
08-19-2007, 06:41 PM
Larry,

Although you were released from your contract Barnes and Noble does not reflect that change in status; neither does Amazon.

According to Ingram's stock status report 615-213-6803 there are no books on hand in their warehouse. You have sold 4 books this year, and 5 last year. Your books are printed on demand; there shouldn't be any copies anywhere except perhaps used ones.

Baker and Taylor is another distributor used by publishers. I don't know of a way to check their sales records for a particular title or ISBN #.

Bowkers is responsible for distributing ISBN #'s to publishers. Contact Cheryl Patrick
cheryl.patrick@bowker.com
Editorial Specialist - RR Bowker Books in Print and ask to have your title adjusted in their records. The publisher is supposed to notify them of changes in status.

Here is Bowker's website (FAQ's for Publishers) Look under the heading for VIEWING, ADDING & UPDATING TITLES. And then under Q. How do I delete a title? Those are the instructions listed for publishers.

http://www.bowkerlink.com/corrections/Common/LearnMore.asp

That doesn't resolve the fact that the book was sold after you were released from your contract, and it's one of the reasons that having a contract rescinded is much better; it clarifies an author's options.

I hope that info helps.

Marie

midlander
08-19-2007, 07:55 PM
It is up to PA to notify all on line sellers that the book is no longer available since they have cancelled the contract...not me! Also since it is print on demand there shouldn't be any books available for sale ( except used...these sales were not used) unless PA is having it printed and sold after the date of contract cancellation (which they obviously are)....what they are doing is illegal as they no longer have the rights to sell the book!

Damn I want to be done with these people already!!!!!!!

Peace,
Larry~

DaveKuzminski
08-19-2007, 08:25 PM
A percent on the sale of two books???

The two sales are merely evidence. The award by the court or settlement out of court will surely be enough to justify having a lawyer. That said, my advice is get a lawyer who's hungry and knowledgeable in intellectual property law. Then sock it to PA.

By the way, have your attorney contact me. I have more evidence on hand showing sales after the contract was terminated. That will give your lawyer the ammunition to show that there's a pattern of deceit on PA's part. I will gladly show up as a witness with the actual evidence in hand.

If nothing else, it will make PA even more anxious to settle out of court. You can see photos of the evidence on the P&E sites. Just read the listing about PA in the publisher section. There are links there to the photos.

Julie Worth
08-19-2007, 11:15 PM
According to Ingram's stock status report 615-213-6803 ...You have sold 4 books this year, and 5 last year.

That said, my advice is get a lawyer who's hungry and knowledgeable in intellectual property law. Then sock it to PA.

Dave, you must be joking. No lawyer would possibly be interested. The damages are what, about five to ten dollars?

DeadlyAccurate
08-19-2007, 11:25 PM
Those are compensatory damages. It's the punitive damages that could be in the hundreds/thousands/millions.

(IANAL)

Julie Worth
08-19-2007, 11:27 PM
Those are compensatory damages. It's the punitive damages that could be in the hundreds/thousands/millions.

(IANAL)

Sorry, that's just ridiculous.

Popeyesays
08-19-2007, 11:34 PM
Sorry, that's just ridiculous.


It depends upon how the case is presented. In a court of law where this would wind up, punitive damages are not limited or based upon the compensatory damages invoked. The court can decide to be punitive against PA if it chooses.

Regards,
Scott

Sparhawk
08-19-2007, 11:44 PM
Sorry, that's just ridiculous.

Actually, Julie, it's not as ridiculous as your think. I've worked with a law office for a few years and the first thing they'd do if interested is see if there was valididty to the claim AND if there was a pattern of such behavior. I don't kow if JAWS is around, he's an attorney and could better comment than me.

I've seen the firm I've worked for have me investigate a small claim and if I've found that the person(s) or company has a pattern of similar behavior against other potential plantiffs, I present the data to the agency and they make a determination about going forward or not. It's quite obvious that PA has a verifiable pattern of this behavior. The key is getting enough corroborating evidence and statements to verify the pattern. Once verified and validated a case can then be made and PA's life can become pretty uncomfortable.

I freely admit that it would take work on the part of the law firm but it is more plausible than you'd expect. I beleive that PA also beleives tha tthere is enough exisiting, verifiable evidence to make such a case and that's part of the reason that Mr. Cretella is now employed full time by PA. Again the key here.. "I beleive", I don't now and can only speculate.

It's good to be lurking about on a Saturday :)

Julie Worth
08-19-2007, 11:54 PM
Actually, Julie, it;s not as ridiculous as your think. I've worked witha law office for a few years and the first thing they'd do if interested is see if there was valididty to the claim AND if there was a pattern of sich behavior. I don;t kow if JAWS is around, he's an attorney and could better comment than me.


For an attorney to take such a case, it would have to be a class action. So he'd need thousands of clients, and even then, it's unlikely he'd be interested unless each client was damaged by rather more than five or ten dollars. In this case, for a couple of books sold a couple of weeks after the contract was terminated, the proper approach is to send PA a certified letter, asking them to stop selling the book. As it is, the effort of deleting it from the system will probably cost them more than they ever made on it.

The real damage would be if they took this book on pretending they were a legitimate publisher, and managed to sell fewer than ten in a year and a half.

eldragon
08-20-2007, 12:10 AM
It's been my personal experience that hiring a lawyer to sue someone (PA, for instance) just gives you someone new to hate.


Really.


I've been involved in a lawsuit since 1999. It's a complete and utter joke, and I hate my lawyer almost as much as the company I have the suit against.

Sparhawk
08-20-2007, 01:27 AM
For an attorney to take such a case, it would have to be a class action. So he'd need thousands of clients, and even then, it's unlikely he'd be interested unless each client was damaged by rather more than five or ten dollars. In this case, for a couple of books sold a couple of weeks after the contract was terminated, the proper approach is to send PA a certified letter, asking them to stop selling the book. As it is, the effort of deleting it from the system will probably cost them more than they ever made on it.

The real damage would be if they took this book on pretending they were a legitimate publisher, and managed to sell fewer than ten in a year and a half. -unless the author buys his own books and has no family a PA book probably won't sell more than ten..

After over a year and a half I can still buy mine new and I got my rights back in 06. Again, if a repetivitve pattern can be shown for flagrant disregard of the law (which in one case would mean multiple counts of selling books back after rights revisions) PA could be sued and hit with a large punitive fine.

I saidin a post a ways back that screw many for a few pennies and it falls of the radar screen, screw one person royally and it becomes a large blip on the legal radar screen. Julie, I agree that one person and one book for two weeks does not make a case. A fair and reasonable amount of time has not transpired. But there are many otheres that go through the same thing with Publish America after a years time.

Legally, the case CAN be made against PA and there is enough material to do something, but what individual has the time to coordinate such an effort. Not all lawyers are bad. Mine is a pretty cool guy and pretty strait forward. He was a blessing whan it came to helping me with PA and getting my rights back.

I guess I'm not saying it will be done I'm saying there's enough material out there already and enough aggrieved authors that it COULD be done and enough damages hit against PA to make it worth some firms time. I got my rights back and I beleive that most people who want them back will get them back eventually. As both Dave and Uncle Jim have stated; the last place PA wants to be is in a court room.

I'm having lunch with my attorney tomorrow (after golf) and I'll bring this up. I'll post back later on with his answer. I hope everybody has a great weekend. I'm going back to my writing now

I wish nothing but good luck and good fortune to all those trying to get thier rights back.

Julie Worth
08-20-2007, 01:59 AM
After over a year and a half I can still buy mine new and I got my rights back in 06. Again, if a repetivitve pattern can be shown for flagrant disregard of the law (which in one case would mean multiple counts of selling books back after rights revisions) PA could be sued and hit with a large punitive fine.


Here's a useful article: http://www.goodwinprocter.com/getfile.aspx?filepath=/Files/publications/ELA_PunDamages_4_03

"...the [Supreme] Court emphasized that due process does not permit courts to award one plaintiff punitive damages based on the merits of other parties’ hypothetical claims. Evidence of a defendant’s bad behavior toward others may not be presented unless there is a clear nexus between that behavior and a compensable injury to the plaintiff. The Court also stated that few awards exceeding a single-digit ratio between punitive and compensatory damages will satisfy due process."

DaveKuzminski
08-20-2007, 07:10 AM
I believe that an attorney would prefer to have the documentation I can offer as evidence when it comes to facing down PA in a courtroom. It goes to show a clear pattern of negligence, abuse, and misbehavior on PA's part. It would be a different matter had PA only forgotten to advise Lightning Source of the contract termination so that illegal copies wouldn't be sold. However, the proof I have to offer shows that it's widespread and that it extends well beyond instances where only a week or two went by. Because PA didn't even bother trying to pay the royalties or even offer an apology, but just kept the money, that would very likely influence a court to find against PA in the strongest manner possible.

Very likely, PA will settle because they don't want the documentation I have placed in evidence.

Hi, Vic. Here's hoping we meet in court. ;)

midlander
08-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Just a note...The Ingram number of books sold is not accurate and I have royalty statements to prove it. Besides the books I bought back in 2004 (160) the book sold a lowly grand total of 137 copies (not through friends or family as I submitted no names).
Will be intersting what this royalty period shows.

I am however asking a few friends to try and buy the book...and I am going to as well...to see if we receive it. Will be doing this over the next few months so possibly more evidence can be obtained against PA.

I will determine then what I may do about it. Right now I definitely cannot afford legal action which is what PA is probably hoping for.

Peace,
Larry~

Kevin Yarbrough
09-13-2007, 08:29 AM
Let's see here, I have been released from PA for almost 2 years and I just receieved my second royalty check from after the contract was terminated. I have both checks from them still, uncashed, right here in front of me. Nice to know that even when you get your rights back PA can still sell the book.

luckygyrl1005
09-13-2007, 03:45 PM
That's scarey. I'm trying to terminate my contract with them as well. If my contract is terminated, and I submit my book to another publisher, and it's accepted, what will happen? Will I have the same book published by two different publishers... not that PA is really a publisher, but it makes me wonder what could happen.

Dave.C.Robinson
09-13-2007, 06:27 PM
If you can get another publisher to publish it. Not guaranteed but possible, and PA is still selling it, then your new publisher would have reason to go after them. This would not be good for PA.

Marie Pacha
09-14-2007, 03:52 PM
At least one other member of this board has had their book sold since their contract was terminated. Although the book is no longer covered by the contract Publish America stills "owns" the ISBN. They should contact Bowkers and have it removed from listings of books in print. Apparently they don't; at least on some.

If you contact the name below at the e-mail address listed with it she can help you.

Cheryl Patrick
cheryl.patrick@bowker.com


Marie

luckygyrl1005
09-17-2007, 04:32 PM
I have a quick question... I'm about to start searching for an or publisher my book. I'm not sure about past work... what I mean is, I have two books out now through PA... which I do not want to list, is there anyway the agent will find these and hold them against me? I will not be using my pen name I used with PA.. I'm writing under my real name now.
I also have freelance written for exceptional parent magazine, but my work has not been published yet,it will be in the December issue.