expected quality of an edit?

lisanevin · Aug 16, 2007

Many people/resources recommended I employ an editor before ever seeking a publisher/agent.
What sort of quality should I expect from an editor who will read my draft twice over while looking for style, plot, grammar, spelling, punctuation and consistent story line.
Is it reasonable to believe that many grammar/punctuation/word choice errors will slip past even the best editor if they've only read my manuscript twice?
I believe it is unreasonable to believe that a stranger reading my manuscript twice will have it polished over, but oddly others seem to think that a good editor will some how catch it all.

What sort of percent error rate would others think is reasonable?
Example: Out of 80,000 words a good editor will have caught 95% of the grammar/punctuation errors upon reading a manuscript twice?

Provrb1810meggy · Aug 16, 2007

You do not need to pay an editor before seeking a publisher or agent. Certainly, you can and it may help, but you can always put it in SYW for free, have a critique group look at it for free, or have a beta reader look at it for free. If you do all three, you're sure to have just as much quality input as one editor would have. Some people don't even use those free resources and successfully self edit.

lisanevin · Aug 16, 2007

What I'm looking for here is what is reasonable expectation of an editor.
That is, IF one does employee an editor, what % error rate is reasonable.
I've found that many people seem unreasonable on how much they think an editor will catch. Like somehow editors are super human, able to catch every typo, grammar error, word misuse, missing quote in a single read.

Torgo · Aug 17, 2007

lisanevin said:
What I'm looking for here is what is reasonable expectation of an editor.
That is, IF one does employee an editor, what % error rate is reasonable.
I've found that many people seem unreasonable on how much they think an editor will catch. Like somehow editors are super human, able to catch every typo, grammar error, word misuse, missing quote in a single read.

Different editors have different skills. I'm better at broader editing than I am at spotting typos; I know amazing copyeditors whom you can practically guarantee will catch everything, but who don't get involved in criticising plot etc. If you hire someone primarily to fix your grammar and spelling, you're entitled to be annoyed if you spot more than a few errors when you get it back.

However, I don't think that the odd typo is going to put many commissioning eds or agents off. You should obviously try to minimise mistakes of any kind, and if there are so many errors in an MS that it makes it hard to read, that's a problem; but it's probably not worth spending too much money on that side of things.

Namatu · Aug 21, 2007

Torgo said:
Different editors have different skills.

Very key point. Some excel at punctuation, grammar, etc., while others can look at the story as a whole and identify areas in need of work. That's more substantive editing. No editor is 100 percent percent, but the quality of what you get back depends on what you ask for and the strength of the editor.

That's not an answer to your question though. Are you going to go through the manuscript after the editor's done and be able to find the errors he or she missed? If you don't, then will an agent/publisher notice and be dissuaded on the basis of that alone? Unlikely.

Manat · Aug 25, 2007

Namatu said:
Very key point. Some excel at punctuation, grammar, etc., while others can look at the story as a whole and identify areas in need of work.

Ack! That's a really good point. I had a friend who's an editor for a local periodical, edit a manuscript before submitting because I'm no grammar queen. I was new to the business and asumed she'd be doing formatting, grammar and spelling etc, which I now understand is copy and line editing. In fairness I didn't know any better and never made it clear to her, but she went ahead and made stylistic changes, changed the structure of sentences, deleted words, sentences, and even paragraphs etc. I was horrified and basically I had to discard it all. It was a colossal waste of time for both of us. Different editors do different things. Make sure it's clear what you're expecting before you start if you go that route.

jclarkdawe · Aug 27, 2007

The question is really what are you looking for in editing.

Among the different issues that an editor can look for are:

Typos and grammatical errors
Continuity and factual
Repetition
Verbosity
Pacing
Story development
Character development
Scene development

I imagine there are others I can't think of at the moment. Some of these problems can be corrected by an editor, while others an editor can only point out, and maybe offer suggestions.

No editor can do it all. So, the question is what are you looking for?

Then you need to realize that this is all opinion. Even with grammar, there can be differences of opinions as to what is right and wrong. When Equine Liability came back from line editing, the line editor suggested that numerous commas be cut. My editor asked for my opinion, and said she thought most of the commas needed to stay. I agreed with my editor (after all, I put the damn things in for a reason which might have been wrong, but if my editor wanted to agree with me).

No editing is right or wrong. No manuscript is 100% perfect. Even if you produce something that is 100% perfect to one editor's eyes, another will disagree.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

larocca · Aug 27, 2007

Expect greatness from an editor, because you are paying for that service. Expect 98% accuracy -- nobody's perfect. Agree up front if it's proofreading for grammar/spelling/punctuation/format or if it's in-depth editing, and just how in depth. Author and editor should reach some sort of agreement on how much the book needs.

Expect the editor and the author to exchange the manuscript back and forth, improving it, at least three times. Don't accept an editor who thinks, "Ah, it's close enough. I'm not being paid well enough to read it one more time." You pay your editor enough to read it dozens of times if that's what it takes. (It doesn't.)

With that out of the way, some authors don't need to hire freelance editors at all. While no one's turning out a perfect manuscript, with a bit of diligent self-editing, a knowledgeable author can get it "close enough" for the publisher or agent to accept, confident they can finish the editing process without too much agony.

If Mom says it's perfect, well, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But if you can get honest feedback from critique groups like what AW offers, and/or that rare breed of friend who won't BS you or get lazy, that oughta be worth almost as much as a wage-earning editor.

I'm super-lucky, by the way. My wife's my best editor, always. She can bash me with the best of them, and money never changes hands. Come to think of it, she slogged through 100,000 words of my unedited crap and married me anyway. (Back when I did need an editor, or ten.)

Good luck!

Deirdre · Aug 27, 2007

jclarkdawe said:
Even with grammar, there can be differences of opinions as to what is right and wrong. When Equine Liability came back from line editing, the line editor suggested that numerous commas be cut. My editor asked for my opinion, and said she thought most of the commas needed to stay. I agreed with my editor (after all, I put the damn things in for a reason which might have been wrong, but if my editor wanted to agree with me).

My husband and I disagree frequently about commas. He tends to use more than I do.

Cathy C · Aug 27, 2007

As jclarkdawe says, there are different levels of editors. First you have to decide what you're willing to pay for, because one level doesn't necessarily include the other levels.

Here's a link to one freelance editor I know (and I know she's good because she was my former editor at Tor Books). You can get an idea of the different levels of editing, from proofreading, all the way up to structural edits. You can't PRESUME when you're talking to one editor that the next one will offer the same service by the same name. And also be very careful to check their background--are the books they've edited on the shelves somewhere with a commercial or small press publisher? Can they handle multiple genres? Romance requirements are VERY different than science fiction or mystery, for example. An editor should be geared specifically toward what you write to give you the most out of them.

I really don't recommend the use of a copy editor or style editor except for the first time. It's often VERY useful to an author to discover what their "pet quirks" are in writing--from specific reptitive words to overuse of certain punctuation marks (exclamation points or serial commas, for example) and whether the time line or plot has gaping holes that the author didn't see. Sometimes, a structural editor can tell the author WHAT is missing or wrong, so that the author can later fix the same problems with other manuscripts.

As for quality, I agree that 95% should be your goal. The editor should be making the book BETTER overall, but that's a hard thing to judge. That's why a track record of proving the book is better (through acceptance for publication) should be the author's goal in the hiring process.

JMHO, of course. Good luck.

Sunnyside · Aug 27, 2007

I was pleasantly surprised by my editor. She told me early on she was NOT a copyeditor, meaning she didn't necessarily read for punctuation, spelling, etc. Fortunately, I'm generally pretty good at that stuff on the front end (I tend to overuse dashes when a comma will do, but apart from that...) so there was no need for us to go through the text for that sort of thing.

But where she was really useful was in helping me determine where the baggage was in my manuscript. She was able to make what I thought were the really tough calls on what passages dragged down the narrative without impeding veracity (I write non-fiction, so I can't just casually cut things out). She had a great feel for narrative flow, and knew where I was getting bogged down with too much unnecessary detail or backstory.

Once we completed our work, we let the copyeditor take care of the rest -- and to my relief, we didn't overwork her. And stylistically, she only pegged me once for overusing a phrase...

Stijn Hommes · Aug 29, 2007

The biggest editing job I ever did for someone turned out to mainly be a grammar and spelling job. I occasionally commented on the plot and characters, but I focussed on the grammar issues. I think it is entirely possible to catch 98% of the mistakes in two readings. At least I hope I did, because otherwise, the manuscript had more issues than even I could find in it.

larocca · Aug 29, 2007

It's entirely possible to be so overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of mistakes that you miss some, or just fear you missed some. When that happens, I wonder if the author even tried. ARGH!

expected quality of an edit?

lisanevin

Provrb1810meggy

lisanevin

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Namatu

Lost in mental space.

Manat

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

larocca

Business Editing Services

Deirdre

practical experience, FTW

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Sunnyside

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

larocca

Business Editing Services