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burgy61
08-08-2007, 11:20 PM
My name is Michael Burgenmeyer

CatSlave
08-08-2007, 11:38 PM
Thank you for sharing your story. People need to know what a scam PublishAmerica really is, and the contempt they have for their authors and the real publishing industry.

PA censors the authors and controls its message board to remove anything that is detrimental to the illusion that they are a 'traditional publisher' as they like to call themselves.

Although your posts on the PAMB were deleted, your ongoing conflict with PA should be made public.

Perhaps your story will save another author from making the same mistake.
Perhaps your story will encourage other unhappy PA authors to speak up and share their experience.

Arkie
08-08-2007, 11:38 PM
They offered me a large royalty package.


What did they offer?

VickyH
08-09-2007, 12:45 AM
The standard royalty package with PA in December 05 was 8% on the first 2000; 10% on the next 8000 and 12.5% on anything in excess of 10,000. They weren't offering much an enticement to get you to stay!

Arkie
08-09-2007, 12:51 AM
They've changed a bit since 2003. My contract of Sep 4, 2003, offers 8 percent on the first 2000 copies sold; 10 percent on the next 8000 sold, and 12.5 percent on all copies sold in excess of 10,000.

Of course they never expect to pay royalties on more than a few dozen sales.

With PA, as with vanity publishing, everything is local when it comes to getting into brick and mortar stores. It is true that you may find PA books in chains across the country, but they will have been placed by local authors, or friends, in most cases.

I have had a PA book, placed in the wrong category, on a local B&N shelf since May, 2006, and it was still there this morning, even though my rights were returned 9-11-06. I have at least one book still on the regional author's shelf in my local Hastings, which at one time carried three regional PA authors, all living within 100 miles of the store.

So when PA states there are hundreds of PA books in bookstores across the country, they are technically correct. What they don't state to would-be authors is that they had no hand in the placing--all was done by the individual authors. And it doesn't matter how many books a PA author has in a given store, without in-store or some type ancillary advertising the book will not move off the shelf.

I have no idea how my book got into the local Barnes and Noble Store and no one at the store can tell me, and that it has been on the shelf for 15 months is another mystery. What I did find: the book was purchased through Ingrams and Ingrams gave B&N a 40% discount with no provisions for return.

emsuniverse
08-09-2007, 12:54 AM
Of course they never expect to pay royalties on more than a few dozen sales.

If that.

jamiehall
08-09-2007, 01:41 AM
If this thread stops just one person from submitting to PA then I have done my job as a writer to warn other writers about this company.

Well said! Even one saved makes it worth it.:Hug2:

jamiehall
08-09-2007, 02:16 AM
In all honesty, I have achieved sales of about forty books since 2004. No author will ever get rich through PA sales. Not in my estimation; No matter how good the book is, because they are too highly priced to entice people to buy them, and the no marketing through book catalogues means that you might as well hide the book in a dark wardrobe for seven years. Just my opinion.

Plus, the few times when it seemed like non-author sales might take off for a book, PA has either canceled the contract or ignored the orders. PA's business model depends so heavily on selling to the author that it actually discourages retail sales.

jamiehall
08-09-2007, 02:22 AM
And then I got this from PA.

Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:53 AM From: PublishAmerica Author Support <support@publishamerica.com> http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('PublishAmerica Author Support <support@publishamerica.com>', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=from&l=en-US&v=charter', 'PublishamericaDELIM1012');) http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/sender_block.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:updateMultipleSenders('/do/mail/message/blockSenders?dummy=1&l=en-US&v=charter','PublishamericaDELIM1012');) To: mike_burg@charter.net http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('mike_burg@charter.net', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=to&l=en-US&v=charter','PublishamericaDELIM1012');) Subject: Michael Burgenmeyer: Misconceptions remain refuted Size: 3 KB Dear Mr Burgenmeyer:

After we refuted the false information that you had been given, we
did not hear back from you. We assumed that you had seen that the
information that you sent us is false, as you apparently had nothing
to the contrary to say. We assumed that you had reconsidered, and we
were happy to see your positive comments on our message board.


They are total liars! They didn't refute anything, and they're wrongly claiming that you've been quiet on the subject since. They're just hoping to keep you entangled in word-play long enough to try to browbeat you into shutting up and letting the contract go through. Refuting their claims with evidence makes no difference in the replies they send to you. Keep asking for the contract to be canceled, and bravo for continuing to post facts on the PAMB.

Maddog
08-09-2007, 02:27 AM
Is it just me, or is this line just plain evil? Ooh I hate them!!!!




> We even posted your positive comments on PublishAmerica, on our web
> site Testimonials page. Thank you for your kind words.

Saundra Julian
08-09-2007, 02:47 AM
Can't you tell they love this bickering. Stop trying to justify your reasons for wanting out and just send the same email requesting a release and say nothing more, unless you're enjoying this nonsense.

icerose
08-09-2007, 02:57 AM
Dang. I've been released for over 2 years now and they're still copying and pasting the exact same stuff. You think they would get tired of their own words by now.

Burgy, I've been there and done that. They are nothing but liars and they will sabotage any and all efforts you make to sell to the public. I have a long sad story with them and it's still not over. They are still illegally selling one of my books 2 years after contract termination.

It sounds like you haven't even given them a copy of your book. Just never give them one. Send them one final e-mail saying you won't accept any more e-mails from them, you want to be released from your contract and you will not provide your book.

Then file them away. Rename your book, change a few things about it since they have never gotten a copy of it, and send it to a real publisher when you are good and ready.

Marie Pacha
08-09-2007, 03:05 AM
Books CAN be removed from Bowkers listings:
http://www.bowkerlink.com/correction.../LearnMore.asp

"Q. How do I delete a title?
A. You cannot delete a title using BowkerLink. We also do not generally delete information from our file. If the title is out-of-print, you may indicate that by updating the Status field in the record. If you wish to delete a title for some other reason, please e-mail us at bip.bowkerlink@bowker.com or ulrichs.bowkerlink@bowker.com and advise us why you would like to delete a certain title."

The publisher is supposed to do it.

James D. Macdonald
08-09-2007, 03:59 AM
If you want comedy look in the Lords of the Prance thread.

brianm
08-09-2007, 04:08 AM
Shortly after your title was sent to the printer, our Public
Relations Department created and issued a press release announcing
the publication of the book. These press releases are sent to the
author's local media, as well as media outlets that specialize in the
book's topic and have niche audiences. If you would like for us to
send more press releases concerning your book, please send us some
other outlets that may be interested.

Upon the official release date, PublishAmerica announced the
publication of your book to the industry. Your book is listed with
Bowker's Books-In-Print and with wholesalers such as Ingram, Baker &
Taylor, and Brodart. All the book's information is also provided to
retailers across North America, including Internet retailers
Amazon.com, Borders.com, and BarnesandNoble.com. Bookstores may
order PublishAmerica books through the wholesalers or directly from
us at a generous retailer discount. Additionally, PublishAmerica made
your book's listing information available to Indigo/Chapters. Of
course, no publisher has any say as to which books a store or
distributor will elect to carry or list. We have done all we can to
see that Indigo/Chapters could consider carrying or listing your book.

Again, if we had done nothing, that would be fine. We could have
quite easily done nothing in the way of promoting and marketing your
book, yet look at all we have done.

How the hell have they been able to do all of this since Michael has only sent them three chapters of the book? The book has not been sent to a printer nor has it had an official release date. It can’t, because he hasn’t finished writing the book. Publish America has the first three chapters and a synopsis. That’s it.

It is obvious these are standard cut and paste clauses they pop into any email they get from a PA author who questions what they are doing to market their book. However, they forgot that Michael hasn’t submitted his completed manuscript. Nor have they sent him his extraordinary advance of one dollar ($1.00).

jamiehall
08-09-2007, 09:00 AM
How the hell have they been able to do all of this since Michael has only sent them three chapters of the book? The book has not been sent to a printer nor has it had an official release date. It canít, because he hasnít finished writing the book. Publish America has the first three chapters and a synopsis. Thatís it.

It is obvious these are standard cut and paste clauses they pop into any email they get from a PA author who questions what they are doing to market their book. However, they forgot that Michael hasnít submitted his completed manuscript. Nor have they sent him his extraordinary advance of one dollar ($1.00).

They are indeed cut-and-paste responses, which is why the only reason you should ever argue points back and forth with PublishAmerica is so that you can post their lying answers so that everyone can see what liars they are.

It also seems as if these particular cut-and-paste responses may have been selected in order to give the impression that the book has already gone to print (of course it hasn't!) so that a reluctant author thinking of backing out will possibly be fooled into believing that they are now locked into the publication process and can no longer back out.

The responses are probably filed under a heading such as "send this when the author wants to cancel the contract" but if they'd been paying attention to how determined and well-informed he is, they should have either canceled his contract or sent him the super-angry "last potshot at an author who is almost certainly getting away" style of response.

Maybe we could develop a system, based on the canned responses, that shows PA's internal system for deciding what stage an author is at and its idea for how best to snag them at that stage.

JCT
08-09-2007, 09:37 PM
Still getting canned responses from Author Support? I'd say email Miranda Prather directly but she'll just get a flunky to send the email for her. She is a coward.

Susan Gable
08-09-2007, 09:43 PM
PA said:
You are under some very common misconceptions
sbout bookstore stocking. Actually, very few books are stocked on
shelves. Please read this, and our testimonial page.

Really? Very few books? Then what do I see, by the thousands, in my local B&N and Borders, on the shelves? They look like books to me. My books have actually been stocked on shelves.


PA said:

Barnes and Noble has quadrupled the number of books they
order from PublishAmerica during the past year, as can be seen by all
the stories and reports from authors whose books are stocked

Let’s play math. Let’s say B&N ordered 10 copies last year. This year, they ordered a whopping 40! Wow! – But, that WOULD be a quadrupled amount, right? Basically what I’m saying is, quadrupled still don’t mean squat. Even if it were 1,000 books nationwide last year, and this year, 4,000. Still not squat


PA said:

PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a
bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher. It may be of
interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their
books stocked by bookstores at all. For bookstores to stock all books
published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.

Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based
on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell,
they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and
the store's shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are
they won't stock it.

PA books have FAR LESS of a chance of making it on the bookshelf of a brick& mortar bookstore for several reasons: #1 – the company already has a reputation for poor quality work within the chains themselves. #2 – PA doesn’t have sales people, out there, peddling PA authors’ books to the buyers of these chains. That’s how it works, people. I met the head Romance Buyer for several chains at RWA National this year. The publishers send SALES PEOPLE out to them – the publishers create catalogs of their upcoming books that these sales people take to MEETINGS with these chain buyers.

PA doesn’t do that.

Those chain buyers can actually have some influence on the actual book – for example, if they don’t like the cover, the publisher may redesign the cover to woo sales from the buyers. The WalMart buyers have actually influenced editorial for books. Yes, those buyers do look at your book, decide if they think it will sell, and base their orders from your publisher accordingly. But you’ve already got a chance – your publisher’s sales people are actually MEETING with these buyers. The buyers already know that your book (as opposed to a book published by PA – sorry PA authors! No disrespect intended – this is truth time. Fact is fact.) has had some quality control applied to it – it’s had a REAL editing, not just a spell-check run across it. It was the cream of the crop of the unpublished mss that the publisher received. It’s not just whatever they could publish in a given day. (See Atlanta Nights for further illustration.)

Sorry, but it's PA who doesn't understand how "real" publishing works.

Good luck, Mike! I think it's hysterical that they don't even have the actual full ms yet. I wonder what they'll do about that? Think they'll take you to court if you don't deliver the ms? I sort of doubt it.

Susan G.

Jersey Chick
08-09-2007, 09:54 PM
Mike - I give you credit - I'm seeing red reading PA's snarky, nasty replies. Makes me want to set their hair on fire.

I don't know who they think they're fooling - my royalties have always come from the cover price. Always. I don't know anyone whose haven't.

Keep it up - persistence will pay off :D

CatSlave
08-09-2007, 10:02 PM
Still getting canned responses from Author Support? I'd say email Miranda Prather directly but she'll just get a flunky to send the email for her. She is a coward.
Actually, these emails *are* from either Miranda or Larry. None of the PA flunkies are allowed to compose their own correspondence. When a dissatisfied author questions PA, the email MUST be sent to Miranda and Larry, who then compose the answer. If the cut-and-paste template answers aren't enough to make the author back down, then Miranda or Larry takes the wheel and writes the ludicrous answers you are seeing here.

They both are cowards in the fact that they hide behind the "Author Support" signature. Or they force the 'editors' to sign correspondence which is actually written by themselves, not written by the 'editor'.

Bottom line: ALL insulting correspondence is from Miranda or Larry, every word of it.

Jersey Chick
08-09-2007, 10:03 PM
Alright Jersey, Hand over the lighters before you get in trouble.:D


Never! Someone already took my matches and that little torch thingy you use to light a grill or candles or whatever. I'll never surrender my lighters! Never! I tried rubbing two sticks together, but all I get is smoke. I won't, I tell you, I won't! :D

Toothpaste
08-09-2007, 10:10 PM
But are they posting that email as if you are complimenting their operation? Could be quite funny if they were twisting your words like that! And by funny I mean, really really frustrating!

JCT
08-09-2007, 10:11 PM
Sorry, but it's PA who doesn't understand how "real" publishing works.

They have no clue. Let's look at the top three:

Willem: Willem has experience with vanity publishing only: Erica House. This was a sleazy yet up front vanity press. (I think he charged writers in the thousands).

Larry: No publishing experience.

Miranda: Ditto. Is a known scammer and liar.

So that says it all.

I don't know where Alice fits in this circle jerk.

Tina
08-09-2007, 10:14 PM
Here is the email I got from the authors guild

Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:27 AM From: AuthorsGuild Staff <staff@authorsguild.org> http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('AuthorsGuild Staff <staff@authorsguild.org>', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=from&l=en-US&v=charter', 'INBOXDELIM1433');) http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/sender_block.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:updateMultipleSenders('/do/mail/message/blockSenders?dummy=1&l=en-US&v=charter','INBOXDELIM1433');) To: mike_burg@charter.net http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('mike_burg@charter.net', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=to&l=en-US&v=charter','INBOXDELIM1433');) Subject: Re: PublishAmerica Publishing Size: 4 KB Dear Mr. Burgenmeyer,

To date, publication by PublishAmerica has not qualified authors for membership in the Authors Guild. The main reason is the lack of a significant advance payment in PublishAmerica contracts. Advances are standard among established American publishers, and represent part of the investment the publisher makes in a book.

Sincerely,

Terry King (Mr.), Membership Dept.
The Authors Guild
31 East 32nd St., 7th Floor
New York, NY 10016

Aha, PA! How do you intend to discredit the Author's Guild? Are they jealous or wanting to keep you from succeeding? Are they just one more cog in the big New York publishing scheme that wants to keep PA down?

What they are is an organization that proivides membership, support and advice to published authors. They are there to help, yet they will not recognize writers whose books have your imprint.

Answer that one, PA.

CatSlave
08-09-2007, 10:27 PM
They have no clue. Let's look at the top three:

Willem: Willem has experience with vanity publishing only: Erica House. This was a sleazy yet up front vanity press. (I think he charged writers in the thousands).

Larry: No publishing experience.

Miranda: Ditto. Is a known scammer and liar.

So that says it all.

I don't know where Alice fits in this circle jerk.
Alice King is the head of Human Resources, a confidante of Willem and gunslinger in defense of PA as required, for court appearances and such.

Tina
08-09-2007, 10:46 PM
Letís play math. Letís say B&N ordered 10 copies last year. This year, they ordered a whopping 40! Wow! Ė But, that WOULD be a quadrupled amount, right? Basically what Iím saying is, quadrupled still donít mean squat. Even if it were 1,000 books nationwide last year, and this year, 4,000. Still not squat...

PA books have FAR LESS of a chance of making it on the bookshelf of a brick& mortar bookstore for several reasons: #1 Ė the company already has a reputation for poor quality work within the chains themselves. #2 Ė PA doesnít have sales people, out there, peddling PA authorsí books to the buyers of these chains. Thatís how it works, people. I met the head Romance Buyer for several chains at RWA National this year. The publishers send SALES PEOPLE out to them Ė the publishers create catalogs of their upcoming books that these sales people take to MEETINGS with these chain buyers.

Susan G.

Right you are. By now their reputation is becoming known by more and more people, inside the publishing world and not.

It's good to hear from you again, Susan! I believe you're published by Harlequin (correct?) and many PA lurkers could benefit from reading more about how the mainstream commercial publishing industry works.

brianm
08-09-2007, 11:08 PM
Alice King is the head of Human Resources, a confidante of Willem and gunslinger in defense of PA as required, for court appearances and such.

Not to be confused with the other Alice who posts on the PAMB and who's signature line reads, "God Bless Publish America!"

Susan Gable
08-09-2007, 11:10 PM
It's good to hear from you again, Susan! I believe you're published by Harlequin (correct?) and many PA lurkers could benefit from reading more about how the mainstream commercial publishing industry works.

Yes, Tina, I've had 4 books pubbed with Harlequin. I may not always say much, but I'm lurking. <G> I only speak up when someone else hasn't beaten me to the punch. <G> We've got a lot of well-informed folks around here, so I don't tend to post to say: What HE/SHE said. :)

Susan G.

JCT
08-09-2007, 11:17 PM
Not to be confused with the other Alice who posts on the PAMB and who's signature line reads, "God Bless Publish America!"

Can we be sure of this? ;)

brianm
08-09-2007, 11:29 PM
Can we be sure of this? ;)

Yes. :D They are two separate people.

One needs a new job that doesn't include scamming people and the other a new hobby that doesn't include passing along inaccurate information about the publishing business and the "wonders" of PA.

CatSlave
08-09-2007, 11:32 PM
Can we be sure of this? ;)
Yes, brianm is correct. Alice King works at PA headquarters and does not post on the PAMB.

James D. Macdonald
08-10-2007, 12:04 AM
Advances are standard among established American publishers....
There's the quote that makes Larry a Liar.

BarbJ
08-10-2007, 12:06 AM
Mike, you have our sympathy for all the hassle - but keep up the good work! They are reading this thread, as are those who are beginning to have doubts about PA. Keep biting them in the as- um, ankle. The more they insult you (and sound like complete idiots), the more people stay away - and, hopefully, escape the trap. :Hug2:

Lurkers, believe in yourself and your writing. Some of you have good books, some of you need to work on your craft. Some of us would actually like to have the opportunity to read them someday. If all you want is to see your name in print, that's fine, but don't lure others into PA. If you want to be a truly published writer, it's impossible with PA; they can't and they won't. Come join us. Shoot, create a mass exodus. :welcome:

As for you, Stooges, you'd be wiser to get out while the getting is good. But I'm vicious enough to hope you don't. :e2dance:

brianm
08-10-2007, 12:08 AM
Additionally, Alice King is the person who filed the false police report against a PA author claiming email harrassment.

Here's the link to the actual report on P&E.

http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/warnpa09.htm

Jersey Chick
08-10-2007, 12:23 AM
This so makes me want to submit my own sting manuscript, just to get on those boards... grr... I've never been banned from anywhere, so I'd really go out with a bang! :D

Jersey Chick
08-10-2007, 12:34 AM
Maybe... as long as no one takes my lighters again. bwahahaha....

seriously, I have some bad manuscripts (from my teen years - oh, the angst!) still collecting dust somewhere... Oh, I could have fun, yes, indeedy!

jamiehall
08-10-2007, 07:36 AM
This exactly why I am continuing the debate with them,and the reason I started this thread. I hope that people who are thinking about going with PA will see them for who they really are. I will continue to post every response I get from PA.

They keep telling me that I'm wrong, but they offer no proof of why I'm wrong. Could it be there is no proof that I'm wrong?

And I plan on posting on the PAMB until they ban me. It seems that there are some PA authors that want to debate with me. I just wish they would stop deleting my posts.

Exactly!:D

Jersey Chick
08-10-2007, 07:47 AM
I wouldn't use my real name - I'd use one like...

Buck Nekkid

Jim Nasium

Ben Dover

And I like the the idea of collaborating to produce the third worst book evah!

Bwahahaha - maybe I won't need fire after all??? **rubs hands together, laughs maniacally** (is that spelled right? it don't look right to me)

jamiehall
08-10-2007, 08:16 AM
I wouldn't use my real name - I'd use one like...

Buck Nekkid

Jim Nasium

Ben Dover

And I like the the idea of collaborating to produce the third worst book evah!

Bwahahaha - maybe I won't need fire after all??? **rubs hands together, laughs maniacally** (is that spelled right? it don't look right to me)

I can produce nonsense! It sounds like just the project to relieve writer's block! Of course, now we can't use any of the above pen names because they've been outed!

DaveKuzminski
08-10-2007, 04:55 PM
And I already used Richard Cranium for a sting manuscript to PA. You'd think that name would have been a huge tipoff, but it just slid on through the PA process. Hmmm, you might creatively mix some of the PA executive names together to produce a pen name. ;)

BrookieCookie777
08-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Wow . .. If a Scholastic editor acted this way - she'd be fired in two seconds. What total disrespect for you! Don't worry about them "discrediting you." Trying to escape the claws of PA makes you look Intelligent . . .trust me.

When I first started writing several years ago - I didn't know they were any different from other publishers because they were listed in the Writers Market . . . the following year it was removed - Sally said it had been removed because she only wanted to provide names of companies who paid royalties and were legitimate businesses. They offered me a contract . . . I read up on them and just wrote them two weeks later and said "I'm terribly sorry to disappoint you. This book has been taken in elsewhere." Although it had not. One suggestion is to pull an Atlanta Nights (ingenius by the way ). . . they haven't seen the book. Write a big load of crap and they will release you! =) Once word got out that Atlanta Nights was a fluke to discredit PA . . . they magically didn't want to "market" it anymore.

Don't fret and most important DO NOT carry on with this pointless banter! Don't give them anything to "go on." Just keep asking politely to be released - save it and send it every single day. I declare - they might as well start with the " I know you are - but what I am." "I'm rubber you're glue . . ." Long story short I guess - cows know there is always an escape hole somewhere in the pasture. ;)

Good luck and God bless!

DaveKuzminski
08-10-2007, 07:59 PM
I can't help but wonder how many PA employees, past and present, took the job with PA hoping to get a start within the publishing industry? It's one thing if they merely took the job because they needed one because they can still get jobs in other industries and PA won't be held against them unless they carry over bad habits learned at PA.

However, for those wanting to progress within the publishing industry because they like books, working for PA is career suicide in my opinion. Not only would they have to unlearn anything PA taught them, but they'd have to prove they weren't corrupted by PA in order for a real publisher to even consider offering employment.

maddythemad
08-10-2007, 08:42 PM
Ah, this thread is burning me up! I'm so sorry you've had to experience this, Michael, but I really hope you stop some other person from foolishly signing with Publish America.

... What we need to do is go on the message boards with the email PAisvanitypress@yahoo.com and then see if they dare give out our email. :tongue

GOOD LUCK! You might need it, but I'm rooting for you.

Sheryl Nantus
08-10-2007, 08:51 PM
keep going, dude... you've got nothing to lose!

... unlike PA.

:D

CatSlave
08-10-2007, 08:54 PM
I can't help but wonder how many PA employees, past and present, took the job with PA hoping to get a start within the publishing industry? It's one thing if they merely took the job because they needed one because they can still get jobs in other industries and PA won't be held against them unless they carry over bad habits learned at PA.

However, for those wanting to progress within the publishing industry because they like books, working for PA is career suicide in my opinion. Not only would they have to unlearn anything PA taught them, but they'd have to prove they weren't corrupted by PA in order for a real publisher to even consider offering employment.
That's why former employees despise PA as much, if not more, than former PA authors. Authors can write another book.

BrookieCookie777
08-10-2007, 10:25 PM
Wow - if all they say is taken with a grain of salt . . . actually it's quite funny to read. What you asked them and their response . . . nearly peed me pants, Matey! lol

It's great that you want to help other authors learn to stay away from them - maybe you could focus some of that energy on starting a new project? Don't let the anger ruin your work! I had a bad experience with JSC books a few months back. The first few days I was steaming mad - then I was like - you know what? I can't let this beat me. Once I got focused on me and quit calling them on all their junk . . . I got things done. I got out of my contract, got a great agent, new book forthcoming . . . Chin up! It's not the end of the world!

PS I'm not trying to discredit your experience by any means! I know this is an awful situation for writers. I'm just saying don't let them get you down.

Tell them you have an attorney and he wants to try them for fraud . . . maybe that will scare them a little. Feed them their own medicine.

Jersey Chick
08-10-2007, 10:54 PM
Yep - Infomonster's at it again - delete the negative or the questions, leave only the "happy authors".

I think you're doing a great service to anyone who is thinking of going to PA and pops over here to do research. If I wore hats, mine would be off to you.

Go get 'em - we're rooting for you! :D

CatSlave
08-10-2007, 11:11 PM
Your earlier request was simply denied; there is no dispute of any kind. We often suggest to authors that they take their time and do their best, so

we are happy to grant you the six month extension that you request.

Just let us know when you are finished. We wish you all the best, and please enjoy your time spent writing. If you need assistance along the way, please let us know, and we may be able to help you.

Have a good day,
PublishAmerica Support
support@publishamerica.com (http://mail.charter.net/do/mail/message/mailto?to=support%40publishamerica.com)

Just another stupid ploy to stall the cancellation of your contract.

Keep refusing them, in no uncertain terms.
And please keep posting their replies; they are looking more ridiculous every day.

BrookieCookie777
08-10-2007, 11:31 PM
Let me just start by saying - What dinklefink would possibly even imagine that was meant to be asking for an extenstion? Yep. Please keep posting the emails. These are so funny! Nothing like a good laugh from a PA email!

BrookieCookie777
08-10-2007, 11:32 PM
By the way . . . Where did these people get their business license . . . the blue light KMART special I assume.

Tina
08-10-2007, 11:40 PM
I received this a little while ago:

Your earlier request was simply denied; there is no dispute of any
kind. We often suggest to authors that they take their time and do
their best, so we are happy to grant you the six month extension that
you request. Just let us know when you are finished. We wish you all
the best, and please enjoy your time spent writing. If you need
assistance along the way, please let us know, and we may be able to help you.

Have a good day,
PublishAmerica Support
support@publishamerica.com (http://mail.charter.net/do/mail/message/mailto?to=support%40publishamerica.com)



Get writing help from PA? I wouldn't let them help me write a grocery list. (Maybe the next PA sting book can be called "The Idiot's Guide to Comma Use.")

PA: In the real publishing world, apparently writers merely return their advances if they are unable to provide the manuscript - and it happens frequently. Are you asking for the dollar back? That's about all you can demand, according to what I've learned.

waylander
08-11-2007, 12:03 AM
Okay - we should all get together, write one or two pages of the most nonsensical stuff we can think of, paste it all together and see what happens... woo hoo this could be fun!

Wasn't this called Atlanta Nights?

kristie911
08-11-2007, 12:13 AM
Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:52 AM From: PublishAmerica Author Support <kelli@publishamerica.com> http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('PublishAmerica Author Support <kelli@publishamerica.com>', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=from&l=en-US&v=charter', 'INBOXDELIM1632');) http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/sender_block.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:updateMultipleSenders('/do/mail/message/blockSenders?dummy=1&l=en-US&v=charter','INBOXDELIM1632');) To: mike_burg@charter.net http://mail.charter.net/images/mail/cb_addaddress.gif?l=en-US&v=charter (http://javascript<b></b>:addContact('mike_burg@charter.net', '/do/mail/message/addMultipleContacts?recipient=to&l=en-US&v=charter','INBOXDELIM1632');) Subject: Michael Burgenmeyer: Extension request granted Size: 3 KB Dear Mr. Burgenmeyer:

Your earlier request was simply denied; there is no dispute of any
kind. We often suggest to authors that they take their time and do
their best, so we are happy to grant you the six month extension that
you request. Just let us know when you are finished. We wish you all
the best, and please enjoy your time spent writing. If you need
assistance along the way, please let us know, and we may be able to help you.

Have a good day,
PublishAmerica Support
support@publishamerica.com (http://mail.charter.net/do/mail/message/mailto?to=support%40publishamerica.com)




OMG...this is the funniest damned thing I've read so far. :roll:

I don't mean to make light of what you're going through but, wtf?

brianm
08-11-2007, 12:14 AM
Burgy61,

Your friend on the PAMB isn’t telling the truth about Wal*Mart unless he got a couple of copies into his local store because he knows someone there. This author got a response from PA as to why they won’t work with Wal*Mart.



http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=20780

Just to tell ya something about the latter part of your posting, this is what I got from PA about Wal-Mart:

Thank you for your interest in the marketing and promotion of your
book. We review many different options for our books. As the rights holder to your title, we do not participate Anderson or Walmart Stores due to copyright concerns.

Now, we all know it has nothing to do with copyright. It has everything to do with discount and the fact that PA doesn't want to sell their books to anyone other than their authors, their author's family and friends.

kristie911
08-11-2007, 12:18 AM
(Maybe the next PA sting book can be called "The Idiot's Guide to Comma Use.")


That's perfect, I'll write the blurb for the back cover!

Welcome, to the Idiot's Guide, To Comma Use. A comprehensive guide, to the proper use, of the comma. Every writer's must have, book. Never, misuse a comma, again. This book, will show you when to use and not, use a comma. Never frustrate, your editor again. After, reading this book, you'll never misplace a comma, again. Editors and publishers, alike, have recommended this book, to their authors. PublishAmerica's bestselling, writing book!

:)

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ,,,, <---Here I had some left over!

Bubastes
08-11-2007, 12:22 AM
Burgy61,

Your friend on the PAMB isnít telling the truth about Wal*Mart unless he got a couple of copies into his local store because he knows someone there. This author got a response from PA as to why they wonít work with Wal*Mart.


Wow, that entire thread is sad. And frustrating. I wonder how long it will stay up?

BrookieCookie777
08-11-2007, 12:25 AM
Actually I think it would be rather fun to write some nonsense . . . I'm up for nonsense. Nonsense is fun . . . it also helps me procrastinate and not write any dreaded article queries. Blah. Article Query day makes me want to jump thru the window.

Hmm. Plots- plots . . . Dayold Macandcheese falls madly in love with Raymond Noodle. . . until Penne Rigatti comes in and spices things up. Tempers reach a boiling point. Then they get eaten by a giant English Bulldog who is later abducted by alien squirrels. Who will win the pasta of his dreams . . . Will the English Bulldog become bloated from all those carbs . . . Where the Hell did those alien squirrels come from?

BrookieCookie777
08-11-2007, 12:37 AM
Lol . . . of course, where else? lol

CatSlave
08-11-2007, 12:38 AM
From the planet Uranus, where else.:roll:
See? You're catching on. :D
Now JimmyD's gonna break out his 'special' bag of PeeWee Herman popcorn.

brianm
08-11-2007, 12:52 AM
See? You're catching on. :D
Now JimmyD's gonna break out his 'special' bag of PeeWee Herman popcorn.

We really need to band together and do an intervention for poor, JimmyD. The boy has a problem with the kernel and is in denial.

Perhaps we could introduce him to theseÖ

:e2tomato: :e2tomato: :e2tomato:

or these?

:e2apple: :e2apple:

brianm
08-11-2007, 01:05 AM
To the contray, I beleive that reviews will help sell the book. Just picking it up and thumbing through the pages in the store wont offer the customer with recommendations on why they should purchase your book over the hundreds in the same genre. Reviews also provided publicity.

I personally have put my focus on getting reviews by those who focus on my market, which later will provide me with better publicity. The reviews can be posted online, in newsletters, in your media kit, etc.


A review by legitimate sources certainly adds to the marketability and success of a book. Legitimate commercial publishers obtain these reviews months before a book is released.

No legitimate reviews can be had for PA books and one cannot count the five star reviews provided by other PA authors. Most of them are so poorly written it is obvious the individual is a "PA family" member or friend.

This poster was/is a member of AW. She posted some of her book in SYW many months ago. Apparently, she decided she knew better when it came to getting her first book published and went with PA. The desire to become a "published author" was, apparently, more important than anything else.

BrookieCookie777
08-11-2007, 01:17 AM
It's just so disheartening to see people want to get published so badly they go with a place like PA. Alot of PA's authors no doubt are talented - but also get set out on the wrong foot about the publishing world. Accepted in three days. Contracts ready and in the mail. Poor editing and marketing. Alot of unsuspecting writers get drawn in with the quick and easy acceptance. But once you reach the other side of the fence - you realize all the wait and work was worth it . . . being in the hands of a true publisher. It's priceless. I really hope all the authors seeking to get away from PA get out. They are so misleading and deceptive. Not to mention disrespectful to authors. I can't believe they talk to people like that. So degrating.

A.M. Wildman
08-11-2007, 10:38 AM
Lieutenant Palumbo swiped ineffectually at his ragged trenchcoat.
"There's just one more question on my mind." he said. "Why would a burglar, startled, in his, crime take the, time to drag the body a good hundred, yards with sirens sounding so clearly?
"Does it really matter, love?" asked Gloriana Tudor, stepping close and putting a slender arm on the detective's shoulder. "All I can think of is you and when we can be alone again next.
"Piffle." snorted Gus Grammar. "There are far too many commas in the first paragraph. Commas are to be used to set apart things in order to make things clearer, not to interfere with the action as they do when placed between his and crime, the and time, hundred and yards.
Palumbo still was not clear about the burglar when he drove home. However, his favorite historical writer Anna Alexiad's new book was waiting for him at his house. He opened it to its first page.
"When Edward first returned to England after his exile in Burgundy, he at first sought entrance to York only as its duke. Once he was sure of his welcome he proclaimed himself King again and with his loyal brother Richard set off to do battle again with Henry VI. Their vacillating brother George switched sides yet again and rejoined them.

:ROFL: :flag:

Uma
08-11-2007, 11:37 AM
Or perhaps since they are so excited and willing to help you with your MS you could just submit a working list of the words and punctuation that you imagine would appear in your novel and have them rearrange it into publishable form. ex.

And and and and and and I I I I I I I . . . . . .

They seem like they are more than happy to help you with your writing so why not take them up on it.

Old Hack
08-11-2007, 07:50 PM
If anyone wants to join in the fun, but doesn't have time to write anything, remember all those emails you've sent over the years. Strip them of anything important--names, phone numbers, addresses and personal details--and they'd make up a wonderful collection of post-modernist flash fiction. If you add a few line breaks, you've got a collection of poetry ready to go.

Now, if it were that simple, we could each send in a sting mss to PA. If our submissions were coordinated in some way, then we could take up all their editors' time for a week or two. What fun that would be.

Just a thought.

DaveKuzminski
08-11-2007, 08:36 PM
Or just use an old trunk novel. Use a pen name to avoid repercussions. By the time those go through the process, each sting will have saved at least one other writer who's unaware of PA's real identity.

In the meantime, PA will think the bottom's been reached and submissions are on their way to a new peak. Remember, PA still has to pay all those employees even if the book doesn't sell so it might even be worth it to actually sign the contract, take the dollar (and ask a neighbor if his address can be used for receiving mail under the fictitious name), and have fun on the PAMB by creating your own support group that rebels against PA's censorship. Just imagine the bad PR that would generate for PA if word got around that they banned twenty or more writers at the same time for discussing "writing" and "real publishing." In fact, it would be a nightmare for Miranda and others to actively monitor the PAMB with a large group posting there and no references on the AW to show them what's going on. ;)

In the meantime, PA's coffers will have suffered a significant hit because they have to produce those books to mail to the writers and pay their employees. It would be the mother of all stings because it can cause PA to have a zero income thus producing a negative financial flow.

So, talk to your fellow writers. Ask and encourage them all to send an old trunk novel they're certain should never be published or some gibberish to PA. Let's give PA so many stings that shutting down is their only choice.

Yes, this might take a few months to completely fill their submission flow, but think of the fun and the history we'll create when we show the power of the hive. Let's put PA out of business by Christmas as a gift to all writers.

brianm
08-11-2007, 09:04 PM
And now I would like some opinions about something. I have been posting some of my post on the PAMB to show that PA censors their MB. I have shown a few but I have more, should I put them all up? Theres about six or seven more, so let me know what you think, please.

This thread is your story of what happened to you when you signed a PA contract. I say... go for it.

CatSlave
08-11-2007, 09:06 PM
What he said.

JCT
08-11-2007, 09:26 PM
I suggest sports/horror:

"Johnny wasn't just playing soccer...he was playing with the soccer balls of doom! muahahahahaha!!!!:

DaveKuzminski
08-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Just remember, if it's all your own work, you can sign the contract legally. Then PA will be obligated to pay out another dollar. Heck, it might even be suitable for framing and that means they'll have to pay editors since we'll all want PA to edit our work, won't we? ;)

DaveKuzminski
08-11-2007, 11:29 PM
If what you have isn't long enough, remember that cut-and-paste is your friend. Just copy sections and add them into the story so that it fills out to a minimum acceptable length. It would be best if you keep it your own work so you can sign the contract and PA will then have to offer editing. We want to give those PA employees some job security... at least until PA goes under. ;)

Don't post anything in a protected topic. PA will find out the PW and find out what to reject. Also, we don't want to involve AW as a legal party. That's why you should do this on your own though you may have help from friends and family.

When you send it, you're more than welcome to announce that, but don't give the title and it would be best to delay the announcement so that PA can't easily identify it by just rejecting everything from one day. That way they'll have to reject a whole week's worth and that will hurt them just as badly because that means losing a whole lot of newbies just to remove the sting.

If you want to announce the title after PA publishes it, by then it won't matter and there's nothing that PA can do. They had the opportunity to reject the work. They accepted it anyway.

DaveKuzminski
08-12-2007, 01:58 AM
Okay, let's keep this simple. No emailing back and forth. If you want to participate in the mother of all stings (which would make this possibly eligible for a record), then submit something to PA that you have on hand and don't care about because you know it's not up to your level of writing and would take too much effort to make it so. If it's solely your own work, you can sign a contract for it. Then PA will have to cough up a dollar and offer editing at their risk. Even if you don't take them up on editing, they'll still have to produce it.

Yes, you can use a PO box instead of a street address. If I'm not mistaken, you can legally get away with signing under an assumed name to hide your identity so long as your intent is not to defraud. If you're in doubt about that, ask a lawyer or one of the legal aid groups that gives free advice. At the very least, just refuse to sign the contract if you have any doubts about legality. You can't get in trouble for submitting. That's a risk that publishers take. It's part of the process. PA is trying to sidestep the process by accepting anything in hopes of getting writers to part with their money. PA does so at its own risk.

DaveKuzminski
08-12-2007, 02:34 AM
We don't want to coordinate it so that all the submissions arrive at the same time. If you want to participate in this sting, send in when you're ready. That way there's no pressure and PA won't know when it's coming. Just announce it after you do and we'll keep track of how many sting subs PA wants to accept.

Also, if no one knows what you're submitting, PA can't be warned should they be lurking.

CatSlave
08-12-2007, 03:57 AM
Probably best to remove those posts altogether, since they do not concern AW in any way.

I like your kitty!

CatSlave
08-12-2007, 04:01 AM
Poor JimmyD is gonna show up with his popcorn and have nothing to watch. :D

Look, Jimmy! Here's a nice shiny story to read.
http://www.learner.org/exhibits/literature/story/fulltext.html



Hey guys, think it will work?

randomsome1
08-12-2007, 04:09 AM
Look at Big Bertha Evans, she has been getting good reviews and selling her book everywhere.


Who, now?

Jersey Chick
08-12-2007, 04:21 AM
Yep - I agree. Far too off topic.

Go Burgy! :D

Elektra
08-12-2007, 04:51 AM
Sigh. I lost my rep point from Dave. The things we do for AW...

CatSlave
08-12-2007, 05:21 AM
Here, I'll give you one to make up for it. :)

Jersey Chick
08-12-2007, 05:30 AM
And here's one more - just cuz! :)

brianm
08-12-2007, 06:01 AM
Burgy61,

This is from a new thread on the PAMB today. Another PA author confirms what you have told PA in regards to B&N. I have snipped most of what she said because it was a long posting. In regards to getting her book into B&N she says this...


http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22765

Obstacle one: Corporate policy against any stocking or book signing for specifically PA books. Overcame this by pointing out that the book is returnable (I contacted PA earlier and got a return date) and can be ordered from Ingrams. Obstacle two: Price. She was adamant that $29.95 for a "paperback" book that is a year old is ridiculous. I indicated that sales have been steady and the book is stocked and selling at that price at both local Barnes and Noble stores. She demanded to know how many they had sold. I did not know. She called Ingrams and then sent me a short email, "Ingrams will only give a 5% discount and therefore your book will not be ordered."

brianm
08-12-2007, 11:44 AM
I write fiction, the only way publishers look at fiction is through agents.

Thanks Brian.

Not true. There are a number of publishers who accept manuscripts that are not repped by agents. However, it certainly helps a great deal if you have a qualified, reputable agent out there shopping your manuscript while you write the next one.

You're welcome for the link to that PAMB posting. You might give it to PA if they send you another "liar, liar pants on fire" email. Naturally, they'll say that author was mistaken or didn't talk to the right people. It's their pat response. If that doesn't work, they send along the "liar, liar" email and refuse to talk to you anymore until you apologize.

Sheryl Nantus
08-12-2007, 05:30 PM
I don't care about how much research you're doing and that you've think the books are overpriced and should be carried in stores.

yep... don't let the issues get in the way of a good fantasy!

as usual, the PAvidians who are desperate to keep playing Author: The Game are up in arms...

sheesh.

what a maroon.

Jersey Chick
08-12-2007, 06:18 PM
How silly of any writer to think that their books should be in bookstores.

This is another one of those times when I'd like to reach through the monitor and slap certain PAvadians and this is one of them.

I suppose it's all right to attack the lone wolf who dares questions - but don't you dare think to question almighty PA - makes me sick.

I left my lighter in the other thread... I'll be back...

**hurries out, slams door on way**

Susan Gable
08-12-2007, 06:28 PM
You are right Brian, I'm guilty of not making my statement clear. I went back and checked the book and that statement is about the big five publishers. Some of the smaller houses will accept submissions direct from the author. :)

Mike, I've sold four books to Harlequin without an agent. Harlequin definitely counts as a "big" publisher.

I've also got fiction submissions out with three other "big" publishers in NYC right now. Without an agent.

It can happen. :)

Susan G.

shakeysix
08-12-2007, 09:15 PM
this bickering is sapping your strength and getting you no where. you are not going to convince them. they are brass monkeys. channel your powers into a new book. take the old one back. i am telling you this as an amiga--s6

shakeysix
08-12-2007, 09:43 PM
and they are wrong. any fool can see that. but they never will. why don't you post a little something on one of the other threads? we have all kinds of fun over here at AW. PAMB is not a very fun site. just fawning, brown nosing, and scolding. isn't that right mr. harpe?

creativity should be fun. when we post on 'share your work' we actually invite criticism so we can fix our errors.--not stroke each other--hmmm. bad word choice there. one of the pervs will be on that like a duck on a junebug! you people know who you are.

it is not all goodness and light here. trust me. eventually someone is going to step on your toes, but not for telling the truth. in our cranky way we respect the truth. spelling errors and not labeling your genre correctly, yes. i have been taken to task more than once. and it hurts. but it is the kind of pain that can be bandanged.

we write for fun, to sharpen our skills, to find out how our writing bounces off real people. AW provides real writers a real chance to fall on our faces. sometimes we whine a bit. and then someone always helps us up--s6

Sheryl Nantus
08-13-2007, 01:32 AM
it's pretty obvious that you're not dealing with the best and the brightest over there - they've been here and still persist in their delusions that being associated with PublishAmerica somehow counts as a publishing credit.

it'd be nice if they woke up, but I doubt it - instead they're content to stay in their own cesspool and tell each other how great they are as writers, and not venture out where the real world is.

sad.

sadder still when they might actually be proficient writers with a career if they would only divest themselves of the PA albatross and work on their craft instead of wallowing in the PA muck and mire.

DaveKuzminski
08-13-2007, 01:51 AM
[: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: [ E. Don Harpe wrote: If Dave still stands by his statement about copyrighted material, a stand he took last year on another forum, I think someone should remind those who copy our words here and paste them elsewhere that Dave will surely be admonishing them to stop doing that, as he once said it is illegal.

D.K. and Alice, it seems our friend burgy is doing just that. Copying and pasting our posts on the AW board. I think he may have even used an image or two, which of course, our attorneys might find interesting, should we think enough of it to let them know.


The short answer is that there's a difference here. The material being quoted is but a small part of a whole and it's being reproduced under "fair use" which is allowed by copyright law as opposed to the whole of a topic being moved as it was in the other forum for the purpose of making it accessible only to paying members so that new individuals would have to join in order to see the content. Had I wanted to restrict the availability, I would have posted the information elsewhere. Instead, I posted information in a free topic that was moved without my permission. So, Mr. Harpe and Ms. Crooker, we're talking apples and cumquats here. Your posted remarks weren't moved to financially benefit someone else. Only some select posts of yours were copied to educate other writers concerning PA.

As to the images, don't be so sure that those were copied. Those might only be links. If so, then they're still residing where they're stored at PA and only being accessed. In the meantime, that's moot since Burgy61 has already stated he'd remove the images or links to them.

In the meantime, Burgy61 is welcome to copy my entire post to the PAMB if he wishes.

Tina
08-13-2007, 08:28 PM
That's perfect, I'll write the blurb for the back cover!

Welcome, to the Idiot's Guide, To Comma Use. A comprehensive guide, to the proper use, of the comma. Every writer's must have, book. Never, misuse a comma, again. This book, will show you when to use and not, use a comma. Never frustrate, your editor again. After, reading this book, you'll never misplace a comma, again. Editors and publishers, alike, have recommended this book, to their authors. PublishAmerica's bestselling, writing book!

:)

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ,,,, <---Here I had some left over!

That's so uncannily PA-sounding, it's eerie!

brianm
08-13-2007, 08:48 PM
I purchase books on Amazon, but I know what book I'm going to buy before I click on Amazon. I do not browse about looking for books. I do that in the brick and mortars. I do browse when I'm looking for music, but once again, I know the artist(s) I am searching for.

I've looked for some PA books on Amazon, and even with the title I have had to search through a number of books with the same or similar title before I come to the exact PA authored book. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Elektra
08-13-2007, 09:36 PM
The only online browsing I ever do is by publisher (and that's only with Signet Classics) or in the clearance section (where PA books would never be). I wonder just how many PA authors actually browse online?

Jersey Chick
08-13-2007, 09:50 PM
I've used Amazon and B&N.com to order - but, like everyone else, I already know what it is I want and either I'm too lazy to go out (grin) or it's a book that isn't in my local B&N - such as a reference book or research-related.

Or, as in the case of the Harry Potter mania - to avoid mobs, witches, and wizards.

I've looked up PA books (needle in a haystack is a perfect description) just to gawp at the prices and read the (sometimes laughable) reviews. I like to see how many PA authors there are giving reviews.

I know. I know. I need to get out more :D

BarbJ
08-13-2007, 10:03 PM
Interesting that in their defense of PA, the PA people keep slipping up. Their book is in "a" bookstore, their book is there "on consignment", the store can get a "40 to 50 %" discount unless the store calls and tries to get it, then it's 5%, and so on.

They also don't listen to the PA bashers, but they certainly know what the bashers are saying. Please, PA people, don't try to refute our "bashing" statements by quoting PA - that's the entire point. PA lies, misleads and deceives; they don't sell books.

You sell the books. If that is what you wish for your career, go full blazes after it. If, however, you wish to be read by more than several people, go after that full blazes.

It's not that complicated. Learn. Do. Work your butt off. Come, join us.

And, I'm sorry, I shouldn't mock Alice, but books in the bookstores are slobbered over? Ah, well, if an author sees their book is wet, they can imagine it being drooled over. That's not something you can imagine with PA, whether your book is droolable or not. " :D

Jersey Chick
08-13-2007, 10:39 PM
I've yet to pick up a book at B&N that's been slobbered on. I can't say the same for the cashiers there, who get the board books my son thinks are a midday snack.

Hmm... somehow, the "I gotta make sure my copy isn't slobbered on" thought has not once ever entered my mind.

But, back to PAMB - I wonder how many people over there popped over here to see how we've dissected their arguments? If it made even one of them think (really THINK) about what they want as far as a writing career, and made them step back and see with truly opened eyes - they can call me anything they want. I've done my duty and will sleep well tonight :D

Michael, way to go!
ps - how was the movie? :)

Sheryl Nantus
08-13-2007, 10:41 PM
I must admit I noticed one thing during my conversations with them yesterday. They were all to ready to bash me for trying to ask questions, but when they found out that I was putting those post up over here there tone changed. They didn't like the way people over here dissected their words. When you post on a public forum you are putting your words out there for people to dissect. I think after D.L.Carrol checked out my thread she got a reality check. I would bet that they might think about who they try to bash next time. In the back of their minds they might just remember that no good SOB who put their posts up elsewhere. :e2teeth:

ANYTHING that gets them off the PAMB and into the real world is a Good Thing.

That board is so full of misinformation and disinformation from the PAvidians that it's terrifying. It's a bonus for any of them that dare visit here and might just discover the truth about publishing, writing and PA.

Elektra
08-13-2007, 11:04 PM
I've yet to pick up a book at B&N that's been slobbered on. I can't say the same for the cashiers there, who get the board books my son thinks are a midday snack.

Hmm... somehow, the "I gotta make sure my copy isn't slobbered on" thought has not once ever entered my mind.


I have been a bit wary of BAMM since I found out they let their employees treat the store like a library.

Jersey Chick
08-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Ugh - now I have one more thing to worry about :D

JulieB
08-14-2007, 12:19 AM
I buy online when I can't get the book locally. Now that Kid is getting ready to start college, we've ordered quite a few textbooks online - even from the campus bookstore down the street. Used books go fast, and he can reserve a copy online and pick it up at the store.

But those are exceptions. I prefer to walk into a bookstore and browse. Even if I'm going after a particular book or magazine, I still stick around and browse.

Hello, everyone. I'm JulieB, and I love bookstores.

There. I admitted it.

Jersey Chick
08-14-2007, 12:29 AM
Hello everyone. I'm Jersey Chick. Not only do I love bookstores, but I love the way they smell - ink, paper, and coffee.... **sighs**

tlblack
08-14-2007, 12:33 AM
I love bookstores so much that I cannot get back to my truck without a couple hundred $$ worth of books. Needless to say, I don't visit them as often as I would like to because of that. I will purchase a book online if I know what book I am looking for, but otherwise I want to look through it, read a few pages of it and then decide if I want to buy it. I can spend hours at the bookstore. Thank goodness the bookstores in my area do NOT have shopping carts, lol.

Jersey Chick
08-14-2007, 01:27 AM
Hmmm... would it be appropriate for an almost 7 year old?

Elektra
08-14-2007, 01:43 AM
I buy online when I can't get the book locally. Now that Kid is getting ready to start college, we've ordered quite a few textbooks online - even from the campus bookstore down the street. Used books go fast, and he can reserve a copy online and pick it up at the store.


I ordered used textbooks from Amazon this semester, and was surprised by how great a condition they were in (they look like they've never even been opened). Not to mention how cheap they were--all three were around $50 cheaper than the USED book price at the school's bookstore.

burgy61
08-14-2007, 02:09 AM
Hmmm... would it be appropriate for an almost 7 year old?

I would think so, several people get killed but it's not graphic, and quite funny the way they do them in.

Elektra
08-14-2007, 02:27 AM
You can publish a free ebook using LuLu. However (and please forgive me if I sound rude), if your target audience doesn't learn from Writers Beware and AW, I doubt they would pay much attention to an ebook--especially if they could tell themselves, "Oh, he's just bitter because PA didn't make his book a bestseller". There might also be legal issues to think about.

CatSlave
08-14-2007, 03:37 AM
If you google 'PublishAmerica scam' you will find many, many websites by disgrunted former PA authors who tell their story, or include it in a blog, or create a website with links to personal horror stories about PA. Whether or not these sites have deterred new writers, I don't know, but I hope so.

When I was a kid, there was an old TV program intro that said: "This is a big city, and there are a million stories out there. This is just one of them."

IMO, you would be better served to create your own anti-PA website, link in to some other ones already out there, and concentrate your efforts on writing your next book. :)

BarbJ
08-14-2007, 08:10 PM
I second CatSlave. Steering people away from PA is a good thing - hence this board - but devoting your time to your writing career is better. Think of how many people you'll be able to steer away from the jaws of scam when you're a published writer. :D

Tina
08-14-2007, 08:32 PM
If you google 'PublishAmerica scam' you will find many, many websites by disgrunted former PA authors who tell their story, or include it in a blog, or create a website with links to personal horror stories about PA. Whether or not these sites have deterred new writers, I don't know, but I hope so.

When I was a kid, there was an old TV program intro that said: "This is a big city, and there are a million stories out there. This is just one of them."

IMO, you would be better served to create your own anti-PA website, link in to some other ones already out there, and concentrate your efforts on writing your next book. :)

Agreed - what Catslave, Electra and BarbJ said x 100.

Put your writing energies into your next creative project. In the meantime, your writings on this thread are helping people everyday. A website is also a great idea - the more warnings exist, the harder it is for PA to keep insisting all their writers are "happy."

Jersey Chick
08-14-2007, 11:31 PM
Y'know, if that's what it takes to make Mr. Harpe happy, he is a sad, sorry little (and I do mean little) man. For every troll like him, there's a lot more of us who support you and think what you did was wonderful! :D

endless rewrite
08-14-2007, 11:53 PM
Mr Harpe may have a lot of issues but his attack dog fees are remarkably cheap.

His big PA plan/justification for going with them was to secure/sell film rights to his Harpe story by having it marketed through an overpriced book that by his own admission is so badly formatted it is difficult to read. That's really going to swing film companies in his favour. I know that production executives have just got to prefer struggling through that rather than having a film treatment or script or something they can read without going blind. No wonder he's always so pissed off.

Sheryl Nantus
08-15-2007, 12:07 AM
No wonder he's always so pissed off.

maybe he just needs more fiber in his diet...

:D

Elektra
08-15-2007, 03:02 AM
I would also like to thank Mr. Harpe for helping me move on. I now know that people are reading my this thread. I also got a email from someone who asked for help to get out of her contract. :snoopy: I will still finish writing the story about it because for me thats part of me moving on. But my next goal will be to finish writing my YA short in the the next few weeks. I will also continue to rewrite the book, polishing it until the day I can start sending out query letters.:D

:snoopy: indeed!

brianm
08-15-2007, 03:37 AM
At one point I thought Harpe had come to his senses. I see now he is no better than any of the other PAvadians. I also question his maturity and mental stability. What kind of person chases another about the Internet posting such drivel and nonsense on a privately owned site? Doing it once to make a point, perhaps. But more than once?

If you can, I would block him from posting anymore to your site. He's obviously very frustrated with his current situation and taking it out on you.

Jersey Chick
08-15-2007, 03:38 AM
Ohhh... if it weren't for the fact that I love this place and don't want to get banned, I'd tell Mr. Harpe exactly what I think of him and his "wit" - a witless wonder in every sense of the word! :rant:

Ok - which thread did I leave that lighter in....**stomps off, slams door, muffled shriek echoes through forums**

Gravity
08-15-2007, 04:10 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: these past few years PA has attracted the damned oddest people on Earth. Back in 2001, when they nabbed me for my first book (and only one with them, thank God), their presence on the 'net was nil. Had I seen then such crazy argle-bargle that passes for wisdom now, I would have run like a scalded ape. The ones that are with PA now mainly seem to be either sad, agenda-driven, or mad as hatters. Perhaps all three.

When (and if; at this point, it appears increasingly doubtful, as the world's bounty of dumbassery seems seems to be growing faster than its population) the day comes the good ship PA finally slips beneath the waves, it may just be because its bilges have exceeded their capacity for bullsh*t.

All we on the shore can do is watch.

Marian Perera
08-15-2007, 04:11 AM
At one point I thought Harpe had come to his senses. I see now he is no better than any of the other PAvadians. I also question his maturity and mental stability.

Same here. He comes off as petty and condescending, and the only thing I'm not sure of is whether he's doing this out of anger at PA or a desire to ingratiate himself with his publisher by sniping at who he perceives to be its enemies. burgy, you are definitely the bigger person in that exchange, and I'm glad you reminded him that unlike PA, you're not going to delete his posts.

Sheryl Nantus
08-15-2007, 04:34 AM
tell him this:

it's hard for an eagle to soar when he's flocking with turkeys.

gobble, gobble, PA!

:D

imagoodgurl4
08-15-2007, 04:34 AM
Tell him it's amazing what a woodpecker can do to a tree that's already rotten.

:roll: Elektra, that made me spill water on my keyboard...if it stops working, I'm coming after you. :)

Sheryl Nantus
08-15-2007, 04:41 AM
At one point I thought Harpe had come to his senses. I see now he is no better than any of the other PAvadians. I also question his maturity and mental stability. What kind of person chases another about the Internet posting such drivel and nonsense on a privately owned site? Doing it once to make a point, perhaps. But more than once?

If you can, I would block him from posting anymore to your site. He's obviously very frustrated with his current situation and taking it out on you.

he's definitely in need of fiber.

too bad he won't come directly to AW and deal with the issues here.

we've got lots of popcorn to get that colon cleaned out!

:D

come on, Don... get that constipation problem dealt with!

:ROFL:

imagoodgurl4
08-15-2007, 04:46 AM
Burgy, if Mr. Harpe is actually posting on your myspace page, he is merely, as many other AWers have said, taking his frustrations out on you. Or PA is paying him an extra dollar to attack you.

I've been following this thread for sometime, as I once thought PA was a legit company (fortunately I found this site first when I googled PA), and I think it is absolutely horrible what they do to promising writers. Many books, I'm sure, are quite good and the only reason they have a bad name is the PA stain (like walking into a hotel room thinking it's clean and then you pull out that black light and well, you know what happens. ;) ) but they suck the writers in with all their false promises and so many of them do not want to relinquish the fantasy. I really don't want to see any other writer's dreams get flushed down the toilet by all the PA filth (man, I am just on with my analogies tonight, hehe. :) ) so I commend you for wanting to help other writers. I think you should do as several others have suggested and have a website documenting your PA story. Concentrate on your writing (I think I should take my own advice on this one, but hte boards are so addicting).

And don't worry about the misspellings....if that's all Mr. Harpe can call you on, he obviously doesn't have a leg to stand on. And he knows it.

Sheryl Nantus
08-15-2007, 04:48 AM
And don't worry about the misspellings....if that's all Mr. Harpe can call you on, he obviously doesn't have a leg to stand on. And he knows it.

given the plethora of horrible grammar, spelling and sentence structure on the PAMB, he'd be best to start in his own backyard if he wishes to correct anyone...

*shudders*

;)

imagoodgurl4
08-15-2007, 04:52 AM
given the plethora of horrible grammar, spelling and sentence structure on the PAMB, he'd be best to start in his own backyard if he wishes to correct anyone...

*shudders*

;)

I know, funny, isn't it? He doesn't hesitate to correct burgy, but he lets it slide with all his fellow cult members, I mean, PAvidians. Again, just enforcing the fact that he doesn't have a pot to pee in. :)

Mel
08-15-2007, 05:12 AM
given the plethora of horrible grammar, spelling and sentence structure on the PAMB, he'd be best to start in his own backyard if he wishes to correct anyone...

*shudders*

;)

It's not just the PAMB. Try reading some of the excerpts on their websites, then read the reviews they get. I'm not sure I can read any more of them.

::and I think my grammar sucks::

DaveKuzminski
08-15-2007, 05:29 AM
Not to mention there's no need for the woodpecker to topple the tree. All he has to do is make enough holes in the bark and the tree will die because it can't get any sustenance up and down the trunk. Then it's only a dead monument waiting for something even smaller to finish it off. You won't see any eagles topple or kill any large trees, but woodpeckers can be deadly. Now you know why PA is so afraid of all the writers they sign on.

Jersey Chick
08-15-2007, 05:50 AM
It's so easy to attack someone when they really can't defend themselves (the gang-up sessions on PAMB), and I'll get a nice little chuckle every time I read one of those PAvadians grousing about sliming on their own sites.

Hey, Mr. Harpe, should you ever have the stones to actually come over here, here's a little bit of (cliched) advice and it begins like this:

"People in glass houses..."

Of course, who am I fooling - he wouldn't last five minutes over here. If the logic didn't make his head explode, I'm sure the fact that no one would rip into him (however much he deserves it) would shock the s*** out of him.

tlblack
08-15-2007, 05:59 AM
There is no worse form of personal attack than those that say things just to cut someone down and then try to gloss it over as if it were just all in fun. Take it from someone who has a he// of a lot of woodpeckers in her yard, they can cause damage that the trees won't ever recover from. Now if they could only learn that the vent pipe for the septic tank isn't a tree...

Michael, ignore the man. He is only trying to get you to lower yourself to his level. Not only do I not spell everything right, but I often find myself throwing in some "suthen" occasionally and have to go back and edit it out. The day that everyone is perfect will be a most boring day for sure. You're doing a good thing and hopefully other's will pay attention to your story.

DaveKuzminski
08-15-2007, 06:51 AM
What really puzzles me is why Don's stuck with PA for so long when PA has failed to promote and market his book so that it might actually get into bookstores. Regardless of what PA has claimed about where sales come from, wouldn't a real publisher seek out sales in all venues that might prove profitable? Despite all the doom and gloom about the book retail business, it's still there so it must be making money somehow. Surely, it's not all coming from those double-lattes. Certainly, if someone just wanted a double-latte, they could get that from a place that specializes in those. However, books remain a draw and people still purchase books from, gasp, bookstores. The double-lattes or other refreshments sold in some bookstores are merely a convenience to provide a more relaxing environment and induce more profits just as grocers put gossip publications, gum, candy, and batteries next to the registers to increase their profits.

Then we look at the other commercial trade publishers. They work to get their books placed in bookstores and with other retailers who also sell books even if the selection in those is severely limited. Why would they do so? Could it be that there's a profit to be made in having one's product in many locations? If that's the case, then why isn't PA doing its best to place its wares in as many locations as possible? Can it possibly be on account of PA not knowing the bookselling business? If that's the case, then why are its authors defending it? In fact, why is Don defending PA? Doesn't he want his work read by many readers across the country and not by a few neighbors?

Of course, vanity publishers typically leave the work to their clients. They don't claim to get books into bookstores. Only PA makes claims that their books are "available" through all bookstores, a claim that isn't even true any longer because some bookstores will no longer even accept special orders for PA books. Yet, PA leaves the work to their clients and dodges the real work with a vague and deceptive paragraph in their contracts that states they can do whatever promotion and marketing they choose to do which is usually none. At least, not in the spirit of what is meant by such paragraphs when found in other publishing contracts within the industry. After all, commercial trade publishers don't market to the author's family. Only vanity publishers go after the author and his family and friends.

However, PA claims it's not a vanity publisher. So, if it's not a vanity publisher and it's not a commercial trade publisher, and we know it's not a university press, then based on the evidence that leaves only... scam printer.

One would think that an honest man with intelligence would know the difference between a scam printer and a legitimate publishing house. Obviously, that man isn't Don.

Elektra
08-15-2007, 08:06 AM
Despite all the doom and gloom about the book retail business, it's still there so it must be making money somehow.


Ah, but PA tells them that publishers only make money on the sure bets, like Stephen King and the latest celebrity memoir.

emsuniverse
08-15-2007, 09:16 AM
Hey there... I looked up your testimonial on the PA site. There's something in there you wrote that I'm surprised they let stay in there.


PA has a standard that must be met before they will publish you, yes it is a lower standard then other traditional publishers but still a standard.

I'm just shocked the words "lower standards" appeared somewhere on their website.

Go get 'em, Burgy!

emsuniverse
08-15-2007, 09:47 AM
Found another way they slipped up!

I was looking around their site and I read a few "press clippings". Got one that really stunned me...


(Author) of (city) has published the novel (book title) through PublishAmerica, a self-publishing house in Maryland.

Um..

endless rewrite
08-15-2007, 11:28 AM
I have always known that Harpe's issues would stop him ever admitting the truth about PA. The only question I have after reading his bluster and bullshit on your site is, whose shoulder is he sat on?

tlblack
08-15-2007, 03:43 PM
tlblack, where down south are you? I have lots of extended family down in Mississippi, and Louisiana.

I'm next door in Alabama, on a hill (apparently a very large ant hill), in the woods. :hi:

Popeyesays
08-15-2007, 04:23 PM
Ah, but you see--Don has a "plan" to get his books optioned for movies, and PA is part of "The Plan".

Don't bother to ask what the plan is, he won't tell you.

The sad thing is that the Harpe family were contemporaries of and associates of Daniel Boone, and there is a great story there. Part of the problem is that one of his two books about the Harpes cost nearly $40.00 from PA--for a paperback!

It won't do the slightest bit of good to market a book priced so expensively.

Regards,
Scott

Marian Perera
08-15-2007, 04:29 PM
Ah, but you see--Don has a "plan" to get his books optioned for movies, and PA is part of "The Plan".

Really? Him too? I know there's another guy on PA who says a movie producer is interested in his book. Anyone have any idea what this mysterious "plan" might be?

Elektra
08-15-2007, 05:40 PM
"PA has a standard that must be met before they will publish you, yes it is a lower standard then other traditional publishers but still a standard."

That's really weird that they didn't just clip it off at the comma. Maybe it's a passive-aggressive strike against PA on the part of an employee? Or does Miranda do the testimonials herself?

JCT
08-15-2007, 06:07 PM
"PA has a standard that must be met before they will publish you, yes it is a lower standard then other traditional publishers but still a standard."

That's really weird that they didn't just clip it off at the comma. Maybe it's a passive-aggressive strike against PA on the part of an employee? Or does Miranda do the testimonials herself?

Probably an actual testimony and not a flattering one at that.

sukreb
08-15-2007, 08:36 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

BarbJ
08-15-2007, 09:20 PM
Then we look at the other commercial trade publishers. They work to get their books placed in bookstores and with other retailers who also sell books even if the selection in those is severely limited. Why would they do so? Could it be that there's a profit to be made in having one's product in many locations?

Geesh, Dave. Don't you remember that commercial publishing houses are WRONG? And JEALOUS? Because PA is the new and emerging trend in publishers that hasn't sold a book on their own for, um ... almost a decade now ... but THEY know what they're doing, and the other growing and known ... you know, respectable publishing houses ... are, um, doing so badly that they're still around ... and even small houses are, um, you know, must be going broke because they're not following PA's sterling example of selling all their books to, you know, the writers, and ... and the people the writers spam - er, persuade ...

Besides, everyone knows there's no such thing as a bookstore, because nobody buys books there. Or would, if they actually existed, you know.

Anyways, you're WRONG! PA says so! So there! :tongue

Sheryl Nantus
08-15-2007, 09:21 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

considering that you were in the same situation, waiting to be released from your PA contract not so long ago - I'd think you'd be a bit more understanding.

however, at least Burgy here is putting his money where his mouth is - he's doing a lot to help put PA out there as the scam it is and to warn other authors away.

hopefully he'll get his "golden ticket" soon from PA and be able to move on.

:)

brianm
08-15-2007, 09:32 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

Aren't we high and mighty? I'm guessing you've never made a judgment error in your life, eh?

Oh, wait...


considering that you were in the same situation, waiting to be released from your PA contract not so long ago - I'd think you'd be a bit more understanding.

What's that saying? Something to do with glass houses... stones...

Making mistakes is part of the learning process. How you deal with those mistakes determines the type of person you become in the future.

I give Burgy61/Mike very high marks for how he's dealing with this mistake.

BarbJ
08-15-2007, 09:41 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

Sukreb, the reason we admire Burgy and many others on this board is because they admitted they made a mistake. Read the PAMB boards to discover how many are unwilling to do so and, worse, are trying to drag others into the cesspool due to the "safety in numbers" mentality. ("If a lot of others are screwing up, I'm not so stupid.")

Burgy, and others, have gone in the other direction, trying to prevent newbies from being sucked in. You should encourage this instead of offering neener-neeners over your own perfection.

The day I stop making mistakes is the day after I die, then I start rotting.

Jersey Chick
08-15-2007, 09:50 PM
Well, I guess I don't have to touch sukreb's post - I second (and third) what the others have said.

Sure, it was a mistake to sign that contract - fortunately burgy realized it before it was too late and before he'd been indoctrinated. And that whole neener attitude is what could keep someone from coming over here because who really needs to made to feel inferior over a mistake?

wow - guess I did have something to add.... hmmm... go figure.

Mel
08-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

I don't recall burgy asking anyone for sympathy; that doesn't seem to be his style.

This part of AW is to bring out the truth of what PA is about and how they treat their authors. It's also a place for them to vent, if they wish, and to help them get through it and move on when they are ready.

PA uses too many weasel words and sucks the innocent into their web of lies. They are welcomed here and encouraged to tell their stories.

CatSlave
08-15-2007, 10:18 PM
"PA has a standard that must be met before they will publish you, yes it is a lower standard then other traditional publishers but still a standard."
If it wasn't for low class, they'd have no class at all.

CatSlave
08-15-2007, 10:23 PM
Of course, none of this thread would be necessary had Burgy, who became "shocked" to learn what a terrible company PA is only AFTER he signed the contract, had taken the time to do a little research. Sorry, no sympathy from me.
It just goes to show how easily an intelligent person can get sucked into their scam; it is carefully set up to lure the unsuspecting.

Even though he took the bait, burgy61 isn't allowing them to pull him in.
Kudos to him for taking a stand, and shame on you for dissing him. :mad:

sukreb
08-15-2007, 10:37 PM
There have been health warnings on cigarette packs for years and yet people continue to take up smoking. There have been warnings about the effects of alcohol on fetuses for years and yet some women continue to drink when they are pregnant. Similarly, there have been warnings about Publish America all over the internet for years and people, including me, sign their contracts. Sometimes, when bad things happen, it's because we are lazy and/or careless; thus, we are personally responsible for our misfortune. One can choose to move on or one can choose to vent at AW year after year. Do as you please, although, along with your admirable motivation to save others from PA, how about some caveat emptor?

Mel
08-15-2007, 10:43 PM
There have been health warnings on cigarette packs for years and yet people continue to take up smoking. There have been warnings about the effects of alcohol on fetuses for years and yet some women continue to drink when they are pregnant. Similarly, there have been warnings about Publish America all over the internet for years and people, including me, sign their contracts. Sometimes, when bad things happen, it's because we are lazy and/or careless; thus, we are personally responsible for our misfortune. One can choose to move on or one can choose to vent at AW year after year. Do as you please, although, along with your admirable motivation to save others from PA, how about some caveat emptor?

Such as this below?


No need to feel sorry for me, I have only myself to blame for this, I know it. And I agree that I should have done more research, but you know what they say about hindsight. So now I'm just trying to help other writers before they make the same mistake I did.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove or get at here, sukreb.

brianm
08-15-2007, 10:43 PM
There have been health warnings on cigarette packs for years and yet people continue to take up smoking. There have been warnings about the effects of alcohol on fetuses for years and yet some women continue to drink when they are pregnant. Similarly, there have been warnings about Publish America all over the internet for years and people, including me, sign their contracts. Sometimes, when bad things happen, it's because we are lazy and/or careless; thus, we are personally responsible for our misfortune. One can choose to move on or one can choose to vent at AW year after year. Do as you please, although, along with your admirable motivation to save others from PA, how about some caveat emptor?

As usual, you take a thread off topic...

Sukreb, since becoming a member of AW, the majority of your posts (16 out of 21) have been argumentative.

You seemed to have been very happy to have the support of these threads and AW members when you were trying to get out of your PA contractÖ


http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=593578#post593578


I'm pleased to say that this morning I received a certified letter signed by Jessica Lewis at Publish America. In her letter, she states that "all rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you." Can I hear an Amen!

Like others who have recently been "released," I will continue warning others about PA, their deceptive business practices, and their treatment of authors. I thank you for your support and the good work you do.

Ö then three months later you decided the PA threads werenít doing much to help others. My opinion, of course, from what you had written in the post shown below, and in additional posts to that thread.


http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=729952#post729952


The argument might be made, therefore, that our rants and raves against this despicable company have done little, if any good.

IMO, you need to ask yourself why youíre a member of AW? The fact that you have been for the most part argumentative, tells me AW may not be a good fit for you for whatever it is you are seeking in an online writers' forum.

Sorry for continuing to go off topic, Mike.

brianm
08-15-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, let me try to get your thread back on topic...

Any news/emails from PA? From Mr. Harpe? Did you send PA another request for release?:D

brianm
08-15-2007, 11:05 PM
I don't think it's necessary. I'm sure they know who you are talking about, especially since you gave them a link.;)

BarbJ
08-15-2007, 11:06 PM
Do as you please, although, along with your admirable motivation to save others from PA, how about some caveat emptor?

I'm confused. Caveat emptor means "let the buyer beware". So, you feel a former buyer shouldn't warn future buyers? Yes, there are warnings on the Internet. This is one place they're at.

Perhaps I'm not following your thinking. Not sure I want to.

Burgy, keep up the good work. :)

Jersey Chick
08-15-2007, 11:29 PM
Michael, just one thing - you might want to xxx out your address from your correspondence - call me cynical, but just in case...

Elektra
08-15-2007, 11:33 PM
Er--is there any mod that can do that for him, since he's not online?

DaveKuzminski
08-15-2007, 11:49 PM
Mr Harpe hasn't posted again, I think he realizes I not going to waste anymore time on him. So even if he posts something again I will just ignore it, I think he enjoys the attention. By trying to goad (spellcheck) me into responding he stays the focus of attention. Sorry I couldn't help myself.


Don simply doesn't have the facts to step into this forum and defend PA. He doesn't have anyone here to protect him by banning his critics for speaking out so he also appears to lack courage.

Hey, Don! You don't have to come alone, you know? You can bring friends if you want, but you'd best be prepared. Documented facts are a much better choice.

brianm
08-15-2007, 11:50 PM
That happens to Jerz all the time, Burgy61. She can relate, I assure you. "Smokin' Jerz," that's what I call her. Amazing she has a hair on her head.

Uh, here's your lighter back, Jerz... :D Sorry it's out of fluid.

Tina
08-15-2007, 11:54 PM
Burgy, a while back Uncle Jim suggested that you not send them your manuscript. Do you need to ask for a release? They don't have your book and you have no plans to give it to them, right?

Is it possible that the best way to handle this is to do nothing at all? Ultimately, they can't force someone to finish writing a book.

In the real publishing world, writers return their advances (sometimes) when they can't produce a manuscript. That's it.

Don't give PA a drop more sweat than is required.

CatSlave
08-16-2007, 02:29 AM
I think the publicity you've generated will be an enormous help to future writers, more than you'll ever know.

Good job. :Thumbs:

Jersey Chick
08-16-2007, 02:37 AM
Echoing CatSalve here - Good job!

"Smokin' Jerz"

**sniff, sniff** is that smoke I smell? Ack! Is my hair on fire??!? I swear, I left that !$%^& lighter in another thread!

brianm
08-22-2007, 09:43 PM
Hello everybody,

I am still waiting for PA to give me some kind of response. I'm sure they have my letter by now but I haven't got my return receipt back yet. I will continue to send them emails every two days until I get a response or my release. I continue to work on the final edit and rewrite and am making progress. :D

You can go online with the USPS and track your receipt number to find out the date it was delivered to PA.

Good luck.

Tifferbugz
08-22-2007, 10:33 PM
Wow this thread is really a public service to authors. Thank you so much for sharing all of the craziness you've gone through.

nancy sv
08-25-2007, 06:33 PM
I agree. I had never heard of PA before, but will be SURE to steer clear of htem now! I wish you the best of luck.

imagoodgurl4
08-27-2007, 10:46 PM
I bet they send a "tone" letter next. Something to the effect of: "how dare you speak to us this way. We are swamped here because of all the swindling and you have the nerve to demand we release you from a contract? We have bigger fish to fry. We will only release you if you apologise." :)

Well, okay, maybe I took creative license on this one, but when they send the tone letter, it's because you've gotten under their skin. :)

Tina
09-06-2007, 07:20 PM
I wish they would send me a tone letter that way I know they are reading my emails.

They refuse to answer my emails so I have no choice but to send them my contract release letter everyday. I hope they see the light and give up on me, I will not buy my books and I have had enough Kool-Aid.

Burgy, since this printer-with-delusions-of-grandeur doesn't have the courtesy to reply, maybe the best course of action is to print copies of your correspondence thus far but don't bother sending them anything else.When (if) they start asking for the manuscript, you can ignore them and see how they like it.

wdweaver
09-10-2007, 06:19 AM
Hey Micheal, I'm glad you found out about them before it was too late. I've been with them for 4 years, and they've royally screwed me. My first book, which I worked on for 2 years, just get 208 pages written, 'What Dreams Are Made Of', is in a local store in my city, because I put it there. I also advertised it in the local paper, and I've made over $300 on my own, from the sells at the store and the last book signing I attended there. I'm sorry I didn't research more before I jumped on with PA. I was so stupid and excited! Now look at me, just trying to keep my head up with all these rejections. I've queried real publishers and agents, and the only good thing is that most of them think my new book, Dream Weaver, is interesting and intriguing, but they don't want to read it.

Does anyone think e-book publishing is a good idea? How about self-publishing? I've met lots of self-publishers who seem pretty happy. I've met one other PA author in person, and his books in the same store as mine, because he put it there.

You keep up the fight Micheal--I hope you win. I've only begun to fight to be respected as an author, buy trying to get serious agents and publishers. I understand how you feel about doing tons of leg work, I don't have time to run aound being the publisher either.

Tonya

Jersey Chick
09-10-2007, 06:47 AM
Tonya - there's nothing wrong with ebook publishing, depending of course on the publisher, but try not to think of it as a necessarily easier market to break into (again, depending on the e-publisher). Of course, it can be easier than NY houses, it isn't always a given, either - not with a good epublisher.

How many agents/publishers have you queried? And are you working on anything else while you're waiting? Keep writing - you'll find each new book is better than the last. There are quite a few epubbed authors here - myself included - and there's nothing wrong with it. You just have to be careful where you send your work, that's all.

As for self-publishing, there's nothing inherently wrong with it, but from what I've learned here, it's really not a good way to go for fiction. That's your last resort right there.

Just my humble $.02

luckygyrl1005
09-11-2007, 04:16 PM
PA just sent out it's September "deals" for you authors who purchase your own books, since no book store will carry them, you have to sell them yourself... but you have to buy at least 50 to get a 45% discount. Only 75 if you want a 50% discount.... so if you want the 50% discount, and your book retails for 14.95, then you have to shell out $561.00 of your own money to get your book out there!! That's how PA makes money... by you and family buying books.... what a scam! Oh wait, let me go pick money from my money tree!

Dave.C.Robinson
09-11-2007, 06:54 PM
Guess you're still on that mailing list. At least we know one person who won't be responding with a check.

BarbJ
09-11-2007, 08:13 PM
Oh wait, let me go pick money from my money tree!

Too late. PA does read these boards, and they beat you to it. :tongue

But you're right - that is how they make their money. Keep saying it to warn others away. Sooner or later, the writers will have to realize that if their publisher doesn't make their money by selling books, they're making it another way. And who's spending?

But there is a dent in PA's armor. Keep banging. :Thumbs:

DaveKuzminski
09-13-2007, 03:25 AM
Now if they could find my email address and respond to my requests for release I would be happy.


Whatever you do, keep that email. It shows they know how to contact you and have been deliberately ignoring you.

tominqatar
05-23-2008, 06:03 PM
I am the author of the book "Paramedic to the Prince". I was released by PA in march 2007. It did not take long for me to relize they were not a real publisher.

I requested to be released from my contract only to be sent threats and insults.

I was ranked on Amazons advanced search as no:2 in sales for PA out of 25,000 titles they had listed. Yet PA claimed this number meant nothing.

I started bloging about my treatment by PA. I took it to a personel level after I recieved so many refusals and insulting e-mails.

Miranda Prather is the managing director of PA. Google her name and you will see she is a convicted criminal, convicted of staging fake gay hate crimes. She even went so far as to cut her face and arm and then call police saying she was attacked.

I have just now recieved an e-mail from PA stating my contract has been terminated. I have not recieved anything by mail yet, or PA's famous clause to not discuss them so I will not be silenced, hoping others can avoid the heartache I went through.

I do have one question. Is my book now tainted? will other publishers at least look at it?

I hope so.

Patrick norestine
Paramedic to the prince

brianm
05-26-2008, 05:37 PM
tomingatar,

Welcome to the cooler and congratulations on getting your contract terminated by PA.

Your book will carry the stigma of PA because they were the first ones to print it, however selling a second addition is difficult regardless of who printed the book the first time around.

Take burgy61's advice and move on, write a new, better book and continue honing your skills while learning about the real world of publishing.

shakeysix
05-26-2008, 08:41 PM
solid advice from burgy and brian. you reap what you sow--if you sow only anger and regret you will reap that. better to sow new ideas for a new book. the more people who can say "look what i did on my own" the sooner pa will topple--s6

DaveKuzminski
05-26-2008, 09:28 PM
Good advice, but it's PA that sowed anger and regret. I say they should now reap it.

thecraftteens
05-26-2008, 11:30 PM
Your book will carry the stigma of PA because they were the first ones to print it, however selling a second addition is difficult regardless of who printed the book the first time around.


If the story is tweaked and changed enough, including the ending, will it still be considered a second edition?

I would prefer not to start a new book because I have invested a lot of time in this novel, which is the 1st of a series.

triceretops
05-26-2008, 11:36 PM
It can be done if you make very significant changes. Retrofit the frontend and change the title. Tweak the plot--change some character names--add a POV--add some scenes--quicken the pace, and such things.

Also, what kind of submission history does this book have? Did you saturate the market with it prior to PA? Or was it a straight to PA sub?

Good luck with it, nonetheless!

Tri

thecraftteens
05-27-2008, 02:56 AM
It can be done if you make very significant changes. Retrofit the frontend and change the title. Tweak the plot--change some character names--add a POV--add some scenes--quicken the pace, and such things.

Also, what kind of submission history does this book have? Did you saturate the market with it prior to PA? Or was it a straight to PA sub?

Good luck with it, nonetheless!

Tri


It was submitted straight to PA.

I have already changed some last names, switched the race of a character; and added characters, situations, and events. I am also going to change the ending and get rid of two of the four locations in this world I am creating.

Does the title absolutely have to be changed?

brianm
05-27-2008, 03:19 AM
Yes, it is possible, if the book has merit, that another publisher might reprint the book.

AW member Saundra Julian did and here's a link to her thread.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86968

Khazarkhum
05-27-2008, 08:17 AM
It was submitted straight to PA.

I have already changed some last names, switched the race of a character; and added characters, situations, and events. I am also going to change the ending and get rid of two of the four locations in this world I am creating.

Does the title absolutely have to be changed?

Well, no, but you might want to do so anyway. You can't copyright names or titles.

allenparker
05-27-2008, 07:15 PM
It was submitted straight to PA.

I have already changed some last names, switched the race of a character; and added characters, situations, and events. I am also going to change the ending and get rid of two of the four locations in this world I am creating.

Does the title absolutely have to be changed?

Don't worry so much about the title. That is the publisher's decision. My two books from PA are being combined and republished by another publisher. It can happen.

I offer you some good advice. Write another book. Sell it to a real publisher. Once it sells and things are going well, mention the first book lying around to your new publisher ans see if they are interested.

I deliberated long and hard about working with the previous books. Before you decide to start selling the PA book, take the time to decide if it is worth it.

just a thought... Allen