Overhauling the Agent Process

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CreativityWorks

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Hi Everyone! I am a new writer and have been reading some of the threads from Absolute Write from time to time and decided to sign up. I just finished my first non fiction book and have been shopping for an agent. I am a professional musician and thought auditions were rough until I discovered what it's like to try and find a literary agent. What a total nightmare.

I am shocked by how poorly the process works and even more shocked by what I consider the lack of professionalism of agents.

I have been blessed with a fair amount of interest from my query letter and after WEEKS/MONTHS of silence was asked for book proposals and again for the manuscript by several. I have one agent on the hook who is an A+ agent and the rest were not even considerate enough to offer some constructive criticism or in some cases even a reply. I don't understand this behavior...They only accept like 3% of submissions and when they actually ask to read your writing don't even feel responsible for offering a response?

At least when you take a music audition they ask you to play it again if it is not quite right and offer suggestions to try it this way or that way. If they pass on you, you can go and play for the conductor or the person who auditioned you and learn why they did not like what you did or how to improve based on their insight. Why are agents not offering the same thing?

While I realize the only purpose of an agent is to sell your work, if they took the time to bother to read a lot of it in the first place, which they all claim they rarely do, then why will they not give you some feedback?

I specifically asked for it in 2 instances after hearing nothing and neither bothered to even respond after having requested all my material. It has been 2.5 months. The one agent who is very interested has asked me to redo my book proposal to meet her formatting guidelines and then supposedly will represent me. We have discussed her selling the book in the fall and her only other concern was the title of the book which I changed and she now loves. While she is the PERFECT agent, if I get her in the end, I was really hoping to learn something from this process and instead feel nothing but frustration.

How do you all put up with this horrible process? I have a thick skin and all- after all I am a professional clarinetist- but it is rather ironic that this is how it works considering it's the writing profession we are talking about...

Anyone have anything to add?? I am happy to have found this board. It feels good to vent to you guys who I know will understand this new experience for me...
 
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Dawno

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Hi CreativityWorks! I've moved this to our AW Roundtable forum where I think it'll get a bit more response. Newbies isn't quite the right place for it.

Please feel free to go back to Newbies and post a "hello I'm new" thread - tell us a little about yourself and sit back while our friendly folk all welcome you.
 

Danger Jane

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hey man

I think they don't spend the time on offering suggestions in most cases simply because they have a LOT of manuscripts to read. Way too many manuscripts to send a personal reply to every writer. They are not beta readers. They're looking for a (mostly) polished, finished product, and there just aren't enough hours in the day to offer everyone a few words.
 

Ziljon

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Hi creativity,

I agree with much of what you wrote--and I'm a musician too. But I think you must not be aware of the sheer numbers of writers out there.

Playing the clarinet at professional level is a very highly specialized talent. Probably only a small portion of the people you've gone to school with can even make a sound come out of the clarinet, let alone a beautiful glowing tone. Whereas EVERY SINGLE PERSON you went to school with can write.

You can't compare a haggard lit agent to a conductor or orchestra manager. The lit agent is more like a screener for "America's Got Talent."

But still, they could be a little more organized...
 

Harper K

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Oddly enough, literary agent Nathan Bransford (who's been answering questions here at AW's Ask The Agent forum) discussed this very topic on his blog today:

http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-does-prospective-agent-owe-you.html

Read the comments, too. Some of them make the same points as you have, CreativityWorks.

I agree that it's lousy for an agent to request a full manuscript (or full proposal and chapters, in a nonfiction author's case) and then never even bother to say yes or no. I haven't begun submitting to agents yet, but I can imagine how off-putting it would be to get nothing in response to a full manuscript, or nothing but a form letter. That's the life of a would-be published author, though. When agents are giving feedback on rejections, they're not doing anything toward helping their current clients, or selling new projects.

A thick skin is key, and good for you for going into the submissions process prepared with one. Good luck with the current maybe-agent (!), and hope you stick around the boards here.
 

CreativityWorks

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Thanks for your comment but you would be SHOCKED how many musicians are entering music schools and earning a performance degree. Its a bigger number than you might expect. However if agents are only accepting 3% of submissions that means that at least 70-80% of what they receive is immediately tossed, right? I am sure they skim a lot of material.. the process just seems to be really out of date with the times I guess.....

At least as a newbie this is what I see. I am sure I will become hardened and jaded as time passes. (smile)
 

CreativityWorks

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Technology offers so many ways to communicate and improve communication. Emails are easier than making a call or mailing a letter. Yet the world of agents and publishing seems to have a list of reasons why it is acceptable to not communicate. The written word, next to the sound of the human voice, is as intimate a process of communicating as it gets.

Don't you find it a bit ironic that the process is so provincial? Maybe I am simply not jaded and hardened to it yet but frankly I hope that does not happen to me. I tend to be the kind of person who wants to find a better way...
 

CreativityWorks

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Well caw, in general, this problem is the reason I wrote my book Build A Blue Bike: Ride Your Artistic Blues to Creative and Financial Freedom. So I guess for starters, I am going to do the best I can to get my material into the market to try and help. The creative industry needs an overhaul in general. New ways to create market share need to emerge in all kinds of creative disciplines including writing.

I am a believer in creativity and its power. I built a business from my dorm room that lasted 20 years in the music industry. Through that experience and teaching creative career development to artists at DePaul University, I had the privilege to teach, train, advise and observe thousands of creative types and their trials and tribulations to thrive and survive.

I truthfully feel that creative types, which include writers, are being short changed. Sorry if this was more than you wanted... no easy short way to answer your question.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Don't you find it a bit ironic that the process is so provincial?

This question presumes that I find it provincial. In order to facilitate communication, don't you think it better to ask someone their thoughts and opinions rather than make presumptions? Wouldn't you find out more about the industry by asking questions before you answered them?

Maybe I am simply not jaded and hardened to it yet but frankly I hope that does not happen to me. I tend to be the kind of person who wants to find a better way...

Being informed and seeking to understand others who have different priorities and perceptions than your own is not the same thing as being jaded and hardened. What you are doing is implying that anyone who does not agree with you does not want to find a better way because they are jaded and hardened. It's attempting to create an us vs. them dichotomy that is irrelevant to this industry and this conversation.
 

Mac H.

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Why are agents not offering the same thing?
I'm not sure why you are surprised. Why should they offer services to people who aren't their clients?

Imagine that a telemarketer calls you and tries to sell you some office furniture. It sounds interesting and you ask them to send you a brochure.

You read the brochure, and decide that the office furniture isn't for you.

Are you seriously going to write back to the furniture company and explain why their colours don't match your decor? Are you going to offer constructive advice on how they could improve their products? After all, you only request 3% of brochures ... don't you feel responsible for offering them some feedback?

And remember - in this analogy you are receiving 20-30 letters/emails/cold calls EVERY DAY trying to sell you office furniture. Even if you don't send personalised replies to each of these, are you obliged to give feedback for the brochures you do request?

Good luck,

Mac
 
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aruna

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Welcome, CreativityWorks. I agree with Birol and Mac. Agents do not OWE us feedback. Querying writers are not their clients. Their time belongs to those writers they do represent.
Though I agree that it is impolite not to at least say "no" to a rejected ms that was requested, I really can't say that the majority of agents behave in that way. In just about every case in which I sent in a full or partial manuscript I also got an official rejection - up till the time I got an acceptance!
Yes, it takes time and patience but it is a buyers market and the world is flooded with manuscripts. But even when I get a rejection, it would be crazy on my part to expect a critique on just WHY the agent didn't want/like it.
Good luck to you!
 
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aruna

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Thanks for your comment but you would be SHOCKED how many musicians are entering music schools and earning a performance degree. Its a bigger number than you might expect. However if agents are only accepting 3% of submissions that means that at least 70-80% of what they receive is immediately tossed, right? I am sure they skim a lot of material.. the process just seems to be really out of date with the times I guess.....

And you'd be shocked at the quality of 95% of submissions to literary agents. It really does not take much more than a quick skim of most of them to tell they are not up even halfway up to scratch. Just as I would only have to play three notes on the clarinet for you to tell I am not up to scratch.
Only thing, there are far more wannabe authors than wannabe clarinet players!
 

Linda Adams

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Many agents who did comment have discontinued the practice because of bad behavior from writers. Imagine taking the time to write some comments, sending them out, and then getting an angry response back explaining to you why your comments are wrong. Unfortunately, it's rather routine for agents to receive comments like that. Often, instead of looking at the book to see what needs to be worked on, some writers blame the agent for not seeing their "vision." Judging from the agent blogs, even the form query letter, which is carefully worded to avoid problems, gets nasty responses.
 

CreativityWorks

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All I was trying to say is that there is a universal acceptance that agents need not offer anything more of a reply and writers have no choice but accept it. That process hardens you. How can't it? Is that good? Perhaps my motives are too pure. I would like to see every writer and artist find a niche they can profitably serve. While I do believe in survival of the fittest there are a lot of fit artists.

If you look at all the creative arts they all have the same issues. I have taught creative career development to artists for most of the past 20 years. This is in fact a big problem in the arts in general, mostly for artists that reach or approach a professional level. The competition for the same piece of pie is enormous and I simply believe that there might be new ways to make more pie by teaching artists how to get out from under the "system". I don't have all the answers but I have seen many climb mountains in less than traditional ways and I believe in original ideas.
 

Julie Worth

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At least when you take a music audition they ask you to play it again if it is not quite right and offer suggestions to try it this way or that way. If they pass on you, you can go and play for the conductor or the person who auditioned you and learn why they did not like what you did or how to improve based on their insight. Why are agents not offering the same thing?

Literary submissions and musical auditions aren't analogous. Most people can't play a musical instrument, but everyone (so it seems) thinks they can write. Auditions are generally in person, while queries are in writing. It's harder to reject someone instantly if they've shown up and performed, so you say try it again, or try it this way, then you reject them. Finally, everything takes more time in the literary world. Stacks of manuscripts are ahead of yours, and you can't read one in five minutes. It could take days, in your free time. So 2.5 months is nothing. I've had a publisher sitting on an MS for 8 months, and before that, they sat on a partial for another 8 months! So you're doing good. Take this agent seriously, and don't blow her off. If you're expecting to learn from agent rejections, it generally won't happen. I've received a couple of lengthy appraisals accompanying requests for rewrites, but my god, it's so much more productive to find good beta readers!
 

larocca

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Whenever an agent or an editor (hi!) personalizes a rejection letter, there's a risk that the author is in the 1% who, rather than accept constructive criticism, wants to piss and moan "You don't understand me." That ungrateful author's not a mythical being, because I used to be him.

Plus, some of us are going all-out reading and evaluating, and then pitching or editing, like maniacs. It might take longer to explain the reasons for the rejection than to just say "screw this" and read something else. And there's always something else to read. A big ole pile of something else calling. I've got 10 notes on the white board above my computer screen that I'm ignoring to type this.

Plus, well, if an agent doesn't want to represent you, and doesn't bother to tell you, what are you going to do about it? Your complaints won't cost him/her any customers. Authors tend not to dump agents because they're damn hard to get. I don't have an agent, but if I did, would I dump him because he hurt your feelings? Nah...

Having said all that, I think it's damn rude not to just send the rejection letter so the author can submit elsewhere. That's all. Don't leave it pending. I'm an author myself. I hate that. Didn't your mamma raise you better?

I don't think it'd kill an agent to give you a prompt yes/no with a one-sentence reason in case of "no." But really, that's not his job. He gets paid a percentage of sales. The rest is just common courtesy, and some people don't have it. Do a greater percentage of them become agents than, oh, say, IRS auditors or hit men? That might be a topic for another thread! :)
 
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JJ Cooper

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You have handled yourself well CreativityWorks. I don't have enough experience in this area to comment but I just wanted to let you know that you have come across calm and logical. I hope you stick with us.

JJ
 

Jamesaritchie

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Feedback

Not to throw stones, but it's you attitude that isn't professional, not that of agents. This isn't the music business, and there's no way on earth agents have the time to give feedback to every would-be writer who comes along. It simply isn't possible.

Agents do not claim to read every word you send. An agent reads only until you give that agent a reason to stop reading, and most of the time, this happens in the first few pages. Often on page one.

And as often as not, the only feedback an agent could give would be, "It just didn't hold my interest."

But here's the deal. It is not an agent's job to give you feedback. It is not an agent's job to tell you what you're doing wrong, how to fix this or that, or to do anything else for you. An agent's job is simple. Her job is to find writers who are good enough to sell. That's it.

An agent usually will give feedback IF what you send her is good enough, professional enough, and close enough to being right. She does this because it's in her best interest, not because she owes it to you.

If you have an agent willing to represent you, then hush up and let her do her job. Two and a half months is nothing. Let her do her job, and you do yours, which is to learn without having your hand held by an agent.
 

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The problem is that agents recieve such a large volume of queries. And in addition to reading queries, they also have to focus on their current clients' books. There just isn't enough time in the day for them to offer a personal response to every query, or even a fast response (personal or not).
 
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