Manuscript lengths?

ILove2Write · Jul 26, 2007

I'm not sure if I'm putting this in the right section, but I was just wondering if anyone knows, or if there is a good site that lists the genre and typical/average length of words for sending in manuscripts?

For instance, I heard somewhere that adult novels should be 50,000 words or over. Is this the same with Young Adult novels?

Thanks!

ccarver30 · Jul 26, 2007

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35603

Soccer Mom · Jul 26, 2007

Young Adult is typically about 50K (rough estimate). Adult is longer. Fantasy is longer still. BFF is the longest. (That's Big Fat Fantasy. Not Best Friends Forever).

Jamesaritchie · Jul 26, 2007

Length

It's dangerous to generalize about length. You have to check publisher's guidelines and see what they want. A novel that's the perfect length for one may well be too short or too long for another.

scarletpeaches · Jul 26, 2007

How long is a piece of string?

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ccarver30 · Jul 26, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
How long is a piece of string?

Today's episizzle of simple answers to simple questions was brought to you by S. Peaches, genius.

Hey, you've used that before!!

scarletpeaches · Jul 26, 2007

It's been asked before.

ccarver30 · Jul 26, 2007

Only about 437924932842492398492 times.

scarletpeaches · Jul 26, 2007

Your avatar increases in hotness each day. Have him washed and sent to my room.

ccarver30 · Jul 26, 2007

I change it like, 3 times a day. LOL I have to share the hotness.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 26, 2007

My last book was 184 pages; twelve chapters and one appendix. My friends complained it was not long enough. My first book was 207 pages and sixteen chapters (and no complaints).

My new work in progress is currently 33,165 words with twelve chapters but it is nowhere near finished yet. I'm hoping for at least fifteen chapters. Tomorrow I am going to write about Newgate Prison and some notorious prisoners in 1692. I am looking forward to it and it should be good fun.

I read somewhere that a book should be between 12 and 24 chapters. I also read that each chapter should be about 2,000 words. That is not always adhered to by authors though, and some bestselling books out now, in the historical novel market have really short chapters. Some readers like that and others do not.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 26, 2007

Duped said:
My last book was 184 pages; twelve chapters and one appendix. My friends complained it was not long enough. My first book was 207 pages and sixteen chapters (and no complaints).

My new work in progress is currently 33,165 words with twelve chapters but it is nowhere near finished yet. I'm hoping for at least fifteen chapters. Tomorrow I am going to write about Newgate Prison and some notorious prisoners in 1692. I am looking forward to it and it should be good fun.

I read somewhere that a book should be between 12 and 24 chapters. I also read that each chapter should be about 2,000 words. That is not always adhered to by authors though, and some bestselling books out now, in the historical novel market have really short chapters. Some readers like that and others do not.

There is no rule at all about number or length of chapters. I don't know where such "rules" come from, but certainly not from publishers, editors, or agents.

The "average" adult novel is 100,000 words, and the vast majority of adult publishers want novels between 80,000--120,000 words. Anything shorter or longer has a much tougher time selling.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 26, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
There is no rule at all about number or length of chapters. I don't know where such "rules" come from, but certainly not from publishers, editors, or agents.

The "average" adult novel is 100,000 words, and the vast majority of adult publishers want novels between 80,000--120,000 words. Anything shorter or longer has a much tougher time selling.

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful to the posters, by telling them of my experiences - I wasn't professing to be a wizard in the book writing industry! Nevertheless your figures are far more helpful than mine.

Birol · Jul 26, 2007

Duped, your experiences and perceptions are as helpful and pertinent as anyone else's. While an accomplished writer, JAR's information is based on his own experiences and it does not always match other writers' information, which is based on their own experiences.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 26, 2007

Birol said:
Duped, your experiences and perceptions are as helpful and pertinent as anyone else's. While an accomplished writer, JAR's information is based on his own experiences and it does not always match other writers' information, which is based on their own experiences.

Yes, his information is helpful. But it isn't my experience that says anyone out there cares about chapter length or number of chapters. No one cares. Period.

There's your own experience, and then there are facts, figures and guidelines put out by agents, editors, and publishers in general. Whenever possible, these are what writers need to go by, not anyone's own experience.

Shady Lane · Jul 26, 2007

ILove2Write said:
I'm not sure if I'm putting this in the right section, but I was just wondering if anyone knows, or if there is a good site that lists the genre and typical/average length of words for sending in manuscripts?

For instance, I heard somewhere that adult novels should be 50,000 words or over. Is this the same with Young Adult novels?

Thanks!

50K-80K is generally good for a YA.

Please don't jump on me for this answer. I'm just trying to be helpful.

Azraelsbane · Jul 26, 2007

Shady Lane said:
50K-80K is generally good for a YA.

Please don't jump on me for this answer. I'm just trying to be helpful.

*pounce* Ha!

Ageless Stranger · Jul 27, 2007

Hmm, well I'm writing a dark fantasy that's at about 70K over about 30 chapters, some being tiny, less than half a page, others beiing stretched across ten or more pages. The story decides the length.

scarletpeaches · Jul 27, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Yes, his information is helpful. But it isn't my experience that says anyone out there cares about chapter length or number of chapters. No one cares. Period.

There's your own experience, and then there are facts, figures and guidelines put out by agents, editors, and publishers in general. Whenever possible, these are what writers need to go by, not anyone's own experience.

Surely one's own experiences are as the result of dealing with these self-same industry gods?

Julie Worth · Jul 27, 2007

ILove2Write said:
For instance, I heard somewhere that adult novels should be 50,000 words or over. Is this the same with Young Adult novels?

It's a buyer's market. Agents get so many queries that they look for quick ways of rejecting them. Adult novel, fifty thousand words, pass. One hundred and fifty, pass. No need to even read the query. That's not all agents, by any means, but you can be sure you will lose a good percentage. And even with the others, you have one strike against you. (Unless you have a recognizable name, of course.)

YA is shorter, generally ranging from 40 to 75 thousand. So 50 thousand is a good number.

Nathan Bransford · Jul 27, 2007

I don't know what's in the water, but I've been receiving quite a few queries for novels over 300,000 words lately. I try to be open-minded about word count, but WOW. That makes you pause.

Calla Lily · Jul 27, 2007

I'm currently copyediting a historical fiction that should finish at around 100k. That's not as gasp-inducing as it could be--the original ms was 285k.

The author decided he'd have a better chance if he cut it in 2. (I agreed with him.)

Enraptured · Jul 27, 2007

I'm a bit worried about my 150,000-word novel that I'm currently sending out queries for. But I don't think it can be cut down any further; I've already trimmed about 45k off it. The original was 194k

Kristin Landon · Jul 27, 2007

At a writers' conference I once met a writer who was suffering agonies with his WIP because he seriously believed that all chapters must be exactly 20 pages long, no more, no less. Someone he trusted had told him this, and he was sawing and padding and mutating his story to fit. He was tremulously grateful to be told it wasn't true.

Chapters are tools like paragraphs. If a short chapter serves a purpose (say, to set off a complete POV and setting shift at a swiftly moving turn in the story; or to briskly bring a story to an end), I say use it. And I do; my current book ends with a couple of two-page chapters.

I was told to aim for 100K for my book and its sequel, with very little wiggle room. From what I see, the standard does get more flexible with success.

Soccer Mom · Jul 27, 2007

Nathan Bransford said:
I don't know what's in the water, but I've been receiving quite a few queries for novels over 300,000 words lately. I try to be open-minded about word count, but WOW. That makes you pause.

300,000?

Manuscript lengths?

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