1st Person POV & Tense - Having Issues

1st Person POV & Tense - Having Issues

Hi. I'm new. I just going and have some things to ask. :snoopy

Here is the issue at hand. i am working on my first 1st person pov novel...it is a mystery...shocker, i know. I am struggling with the TENSE in my 1st person pov narrative.

It comes down to things like this (lame, I know, but it shows the problem):

"I see him pick up the coffee mug, drink it. He is a nice person"

vs

"I saw him pick up the coffee mug, and he drank it. He is a nice person."


:head

I am concerned about being consistent with my tense. In the second one, there are actually two tenses with "was" and "is" because he picked up the mug (past) but he is a nice person (currently and still)...does this work?

I am confused. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

keller

hmm

In the first example you use present perfect tense. This is a hard tense to keep up with, and it can get to the reader after a bit. It's hard to read as we normally don't hear stories told that way or read many of them. Patricia Cornwell in her latest book used present perfect tense--I hated the book. And i have been an avid fan of hers form her first book.

When doing first person you use your second example. The problem I think you are having is putting yourself in the I character's shoes. He is a nice person.

I saw him pick up the coffee mug. He is a nice person--works in dialog as in telling another character about the other coffee drinker--He's a nice person, but that coffee habit--ugh.

I saw him pick up the coffee mug. He was a nice person.

You can read that to mean he was once a nice person but no longer. That's nit picking and I doubt most people are going to say oh so now he isn't a nice person? In most first person it is accepted that we have a direct inroad the the "I" character's thoughts.

He picked up the coffee mug. (gets rid of an instance of "I") John is a nice person, but his coffee habit annoys me. Even if you stick with the I saw, saying John is a nice person works and is in tense with the first part.

One of the best ways to get rid of the "I" overload is to get rid of all I thought, I saw, I heard--and even in third limited POV get rid of those words as well. The reader knows that the POV character is seeing, hearing, smelling etc. It makes the writing stronger.

Shawn

Re: hmm

This is how I have been thinking about it:

If the narrator witnesses something then it ends up as a "was" or a "did" of some kind. Some sort of past tense description of the action, even if it is occuring at that instant. However, if it is something that is ongoing, such as a personality trait or color or whatever, then it gets an "is" statement.

"He picked up the coffee mug." - he just did it, but it is now in the past.

"The mug is blue." - not an action, but a current description that wouldn't change.

What do you think? Am I on track with that?

keller

Re: hmm

I saw him pick up the coffee mug, and he drank it. He was a nice person.

It doesn't matter if he IS still a nice person. Your story happens in the past. Your narrative would be in past tense.

However, if your narrative is in present tense but something happened in the past. Then you can keep that "something" in past tense but everything else still within the normal timeframe, which is the present:

Last night I saw him pick up the coffee mug. He drank the coffee. He is a nice person. He works at Microsoft.

I won't recommend mixing these together into one sentence though:

1. I saw him pick up the coffee mug
2. He drank it.

Re: hmm

Shawn, isn't "I see him pick up" in plain present tense, not present perfect?

Killer, people don't drink coffee mugs.

Re: hmm

wise, guy, eh?

:smack

Re: hmm

"wise, guy, eh?"

No, just a smart lady. Seriously, I mentioned the mug because readers will notice details that are a little off from reality.

plain

plain present tense--OK dumb moment, (mine) do you mean just present tense? I have not heard it called plain present tense.

I said present perfect tense because the action is tied to the past (he had to pick up the mug to drink it) so part of the action happened in the past but it is still ongoing.

And, no it is not whether he is nice or not, but in first person POV you are privy to the character's thoughts so the "I" character could be thinking that so and so is a nice person.

Present perfect can be annoying. I see him pick up the mug and drink from it. He is a nice person. I walk to the back of the store and see a bottle of milk on the floor. UGH!

IMHO

Shawn

Re: plain

Traditionally, most literature, regardless of POV, is in the past tense (saw, did. etc). Perhaps correct the "he is a nice person" issue by tagging it with something to the effect of "I thought to myself." Given the fact that dialog is dependant on the tense of the conversation, even if it's in one's head, that would clear up the issue of whether or not the subject has ceased to be a nice person or ceased to be period (as if you were to change it to "was a nice person").

That's my two cents, from a secondary English teacher.

Re: plain

Shawn, by "plain present tense," I meant "plain old present tense." This differeth not from just present tense or, indeed, from regular present tense, not to be confused with regular verbs. Excuse me. I've been hanging out at a couple of other forums today (hint: SYW), and they made me crazy.

Present perfect: I've seen him pick up the mug.
Present: I see him pick up the mug.

I can understand

the crazy, I have been editing the worst junk you have ever seen. My mind is bent.

I want to ask (scream) HOW DO YOU PEOPLE SPEAK? Let's conjugate the verb to be while we're at it--grrrrrr (not aimed at you Reph)

A thought on the I thought, or Sam thought (saw, heard, smelled etc.)--when in first person or limited third you don't need the tags--the reader knows they are seeing things from the POV character's perspective.

Reph, I did not mean to come off sounding like an ass--I was scratching my head going--what is he talking about? LOL

Anyway--I am now going to bed before I have to pick up the cat from the vet--I've been up something like 36 hrs now.

Shawn

I can doooo it!

Y'all,

Hey, thanks for the good discussion, folks. I can probably go back and clean up the last two chapters of 1st person pov and get it right, and make sure that my character isn't drinking any coffee mugs. :thumbs

My background is in Electrical Engineering, so I am a very technically minded person and can understand the details, but i have limited writing education beyond the general english classes at the university and a couple of engineering writing classes.

I appreciate the help.

keller

Re: I can doooo it!

I don't know if I'm too late for this, but I would say something like this.

He picked up the coffee mug; it was blue.

The reason one would say blue is NOT because it is not blue anymore, but rather because your focus has changed.

Something like, "it was blue(and now we're moving on)", without the moving part.