Analyzing and Learning from the Works of Others

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Martin Smith

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To be a good writer, one must be a good reader.

I've started reading written pieces with the goal of "taking them apart" to see how they work and how I should be writing, but I don't know what I'm doing. I don't really know what I should be looking for or what I should take note of. I'm lost. I end up taking copious notes on completely pointless minutiae, and blowing past more important things.

I need advice on what I should be looking for and what I should be doing with the information I've gathered. My main interest is humor writing, but I also want to know how to study other writers for more general skills.

Thanks for any help.
 

Chasing the Horizon

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I've never studied a novel. I'm not even really an avid reader (I do read, but not obsessively or 'all the time'). The closest I've come to taking a novel apart was grabbing a copy of "IT" by Stephen King to look up how to use em-dashes, ellipses, and the like when I first started writing.

I feel like I've learned more about the ins and outs of story structure by carefully watching my favorite movies than from reading. I have watched movies with a careful eye to pacing and scene structure (particularly since movies can never tell, they have to show, and still make sense).

I might make a mental note of a cool technique I run across in a novel I'm reading, or cringe from a mistake which I then realize I've been making in my own writing, but I don't go out of my way to 'study' other people's writing. (I'm pretty sure I learned the 200 word sentence from Stephen King, but that wasn't on purpose, and it's not necessarily a good thing either)

My advice would be to stop trying to take notes on other people's work and get to work on your own writing. Assuming you've read on a regular basis for most of your life, you already have the necessary feel for written language.

When I first started writing, despite having read hundreds and hundreds of books in the past, my own writing was still unintelligible crap. Nine months of hard, serious practice and studying the craft itself have done more for me than a lifetime of reading. You learn to write by writing. Reading helps, but it will only take you a small bit of the way towards becoming a good writer. My mother reads a couple books every week and has for forty years, but she has trouble putting together a decent paragraph in her own words. If reading made you a writer, she should be a thousand times better than me. I'm better than her because I've written 500,000 of my own (mostly crappy) words.

Anyway, just my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it. :)
 

Siddow

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Hi Martin.

I've done this once. What I did was sit down with the novel and a notebook, and at the end of each chapter, I summarized the chapter in a sentence (or two, but usually not more than that). I did this because I was having trouble with pacing and plotting. I could plot okay, but when I'd write, I'd blow through the entire plot in 50-60k words, which is a little short for my genre. My pacing was off.

What I learned was that the novel I'd chosen to dissect included a good bit of background and sideways information on the character. The little nuances that make the characters pop off the page. So where I'd been writing with the thinking that "If it doesn't advance the plot, take it out", I then changed to writing with a little more of the peripheral information on my characters.

I think the best way to go about reading to improve your writing is to figure out what your weaknesses are, then read and study the authors who are strong in that area. And the best way to figure out what your weaknesses are, is to write something and show it to someone who is not afraid of hurting your feelings.
 

Puma

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Hi Martin - I suggest you start looking at the threads in the Humor subforum of Share Your Work (in the workshop section down below). But, I also wouldn't limit yourself to just the humor section. There are a lot of good writing tips being passed on in the critiques given to posted work. Puma
 

Simon Woodhouse

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On the whole I read as a reader, not a writer. I just try to enjoy the reading experience without looking too deeply into it.

I've always made a conscious effort not to try and write like my favourite authors, because my style is very different to theirs. I take inspiration from a good book in so much as I'd like people to feel the same sense of satisfaction after they finish reading one of mine. So I look at what I've written and ponder on how I can improve it within the boundaries of my own style.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Read

It's true that if you don't read fiction on a regular basis, and read deeply and widely, you can't write publishable fiction. I think dissecting novels and short stories is an excellent idea, and I think doing just this is one reason those who major in college courses where this is required tends to put them ahead of other writers.

How to do it is something else, and the only real answer is to do whatever works for you. The method I was taught requires you find a novel or short story you love. Then you go through it with highlighters of various colors, one for passages of narrative that you really like, one for passages of description, one for characterization, one for great lines of dialogue, etc.

You combine this with notes on pace, flow, mood, tone, suspense, overall story arc, etc.

But the point of it all is simply to determine why you love this writing so much, why each element works so well, and why your own writing isn't working as well as this does.

It's partly a trial and error sort of thing, and you have to match your method of study with your own likes, dislikes, writign style, etc., but studying good writing can, I believe, help improve your own.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
I feel like I've learned more about the ins and outs of story structure by carefully watching my favorite movies than from reading. I have watched movies with a careful eye to pacing and scene structure (particularly since movies can never tell, they have to show, and still make sense).

It's true you can learn some things from watching movies and television. A very good writer I know says that soap operas are very good for teaching cliffhangers of the type that you use at the end of the chapter to get readers to keep reading, but, with the possible exception of scriptwriting -- nah, even scriptwriting -- I caution anyone against using only movies and TV to learn to write. We're talking about different mediums. How an actor or director reveals mood, setting, character, or conflict is different than how a novelist or short story writer would do the same.

I might make a mental note of a cool technique I run across in a novel I'm reading, or cringe from a mistake which I then realize I've been making in my own writing, but I don't go out of my way to 'study' other people's writing.

It's not so much about studying the writer's writing as it is studying how the story was told, how the writer did it. There's a difference between mechanical technique and story telling technique. The first is about, as you suggested in the beginning, the use of such tools as ellipses and semi-colons. The latter is about the craft of story telling, how to use or bend the rules to accomplish a goal, or how to use the tools to and skills to achieve an effect.

For example, if you were to read both Maxwell's So Long, See You Tomorrow and Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, you (generic you), might notice that both authors mix the third person and first person POV's. In Slaughterhouse Five, whenever the switch is made, it's jarring. I think it's supposed to be. In So Long, See You Tomorrow, the switch is almost unnoticeable unless you're looking for it.

Why? How did the authors do the same thing and create a different effect? How do the different use of the same technique effect the reader? What does the purpose seem to have been? And, perhaps most importantly, how did they do it? How did they pull it off? What tricks or techniques can you, as a fellow writer, unravel or detect that you might be able to utilize (not copy) in your own work?

My advice would be to stop trying to take notes on other people's work and get to work on your own writing. Assuming you've read on a regular basis for most of your life, you already have the necessary feel for written language.

Not necessarily. I've looked at pictures most of my life, yet if I were to take a snapshot worthy of publication it would be fortuitous. I might know how I want it to look in the end, but I only have the vaguest inkling -- that it has to do with the placement of the subject, shadowing, lighting, and the mysteries of exposure -- to create the picture I want in the end. I definitely don't have the knowledge to refine the picture to make it one that people go: Wow! Look at that. I want to hang that on my wall.

I am, in short, a viewer of art, someone who appreciates the final result, but I don't have the knowledge or skills to create true visual art for myself.

When I first started writing, despite having read hundreds and hundreds of books in the past, my own writing was still unintelligible crap. Nine months of hard, serious practice and studying the craft itself have done more for me than a lifetime of reading. You learn to write by writing.

Of course you have to practice the craft. You can't just watch it or observe it. You have to actively try to apply the techniques you study in order to fully understand how to utilize them and how they do and do not work for you. I've never heard anyone say or suggest otherwise. Reading and studying existing works does not take the place of actually writing, but it does give you something to practice.

Look at it this way, regardless of what you're learning, it's usually taught in a variety of ways:

1) Someone who knows how to do it demonstrates it.
2) You attempt a variety of exercises designed to focus on and instill a greater understanding of how it (whatever it is) works.
3) You actually apply it in practice.

Writing is no different.


Reading helps, but it will only take you a small bit of the way towards becoming a good writer. My mother reads a couple books every week and has for forty years, but she has trouble putting together a decent paragraph in her own words. If reading made you a writer, she should be a thousand times better than me.

There's reading for enjoyment and there's reading for study. They are different things. I just finished reading a book for enjoyment. I looked to technique or how things were done not at all. I just enjoyed the story as a reader. If I were to go back and read the exact same book as a writer studying the technique, I would approach it differently, with a different focus and a different mindset. I would not allow my thinking mind to turn off and so I could just enjoy the story, but I would consciously analyze how the different parts fit together, how the craft was employed, and how things went together.

I'm better than her because I've written 500,000 of my own (mostly crappy) words.

Well, yes, again, practice does help. No one has said or claimed otherwise, but again, you have to know what you're practicing. Sometimes, that takes observing and studying how others have done things.

Writing in order to tell a story is more than the mechanics of it, though. I drive a car and have for years and I know how to add oil to my car, check the various fluid levels, replace the lights, change the tires, hang a replacement bracket for a muffler, and change the battery, but none of this makes me a mechanic, because I don't have the requisite knowledge of what makes a car work. I know when my car doesn't work, and sometimes I even know why, but that's not the same thing as understanding how all the pieces fit together and interact to make a functioning automobile. If I ever wanted to be a mechanic, I'd have to study the craft in order to gain the knowledge and skills that I lack, and I would have to practice in order to gain the confidence and applied expertise before I could actually call myself a mechanic.
 

Will Lavender

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I subscribe to the 'learning by osmosis' school of learning from reading. That is to say, I read lots and hope some of how to do it trickles into my brain as I do so.

Seems to work for me.

This is what I do as well.

I don't think I have the patience to take books apart. And besides, I want to read too many of them.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Osmosis

I subscribe to the 'learning by osmosis' school of learning from reading. That is to say, I read lots and hope some of how to do it trickles into my brain as I do so.

Seems to work for me.

Osmosis is a good method, and an essential one. I think we all learn most of what we know this way. Dissecting novels and short stories is just an additional step, and one that can work very well, if you have the patience for it.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Movies

Some things can be learned by watching movies, but this is never a good way to learn how to write fiction. You may learn something about pace, except that you'll probably forget that pace is going to change dramatically in a novel because all those props, all that setting, the background, all those clothes, That person standing over there as filler, the newsstand behind the character, every last thing you see, must be turned into words.

If you want write fiction, you have to read fiction, and lots of it. Trying to learn how to write fiction by watching a movie makes no more sense than trying to learn how to paint by watching a movie.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
I bet the vet who takes care of your beloved cat dissected a few in order to learn how to better take care of them. This does not mean he loves animals any less.

When it comes to the care of my pets, I'm glad my vet took such care in learning his field.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
But you are studying to be a writer. Do you really want to be a passive observer of the process or do you want to be an active participant?
 

licity-lieu

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There's a book you really should read. It's called 'Reading like a writer' by Francine Prose. It's not a how-to book but it does give you amazing insight into the writing of others. I've learnt so much from this book.

Learning from the works of others is absolutely necessary and should always be incorporated into teaching and learning of a craft. Deconstructing the 'masters', copying works of the 'masters' to understand brush stroke technique etc is a bread and butter activity found in any respectable art school, so why not do the same when learning to write? You absolutely must read. You cannot seriously expect to be any good if you don't read as much as you write.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Forgive me, but I don't quite see it that way. I'm not studying "to be" a writer; I am one. Of course, I want to become a much better writer than I am now. (Don't we all?)

Precisely. That's the point. Being a writer does not mean an end to study.

Engineers, teachers, carpenters, vets... all professionals continue to study their craft. They continue to study how to be engineers, teachers, carpenters, vets, etc.

Professionals, regardless of their field, all continuing studying, both in order to continue improving and in order to stay on top of new developments in the field. Writers are no different.

For writers, studying means not just reading, but reading to interpret and analyze and to expand our knowledge of literature, what's been done before, what's being done now, how the two differ, not to mention the techniques and skills used to create the story.


That's why I read voraciously (novels, not how-to-write texts) and write, write, write. Practice will never make me perfect, I know, but it's an avenue toward improvement, which is all I can hope for.

Again, reading is not the end all and be all. More wholistic learning takes places when the learner, whether self-directed or studying under someone, utilizes different methods to assimilate the knowledge and the application of craft.

Again, there is reading as a reader and there is reading as a writer.

Well, that and having my book published. :)

I'm assuming that you want to have more than one book published, that you want to make a career of this writing-thing. I'm not talking about writing just one book; I'm talking about making a career of writing.
 

JanDarby

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I don't have a degree in English, but I've learned by dissecting stories in the past (and have been cursed with reading like a writer since the day I started storytelling, so it takes a truly amazing writer to pull me all the way into a story, so I don't see the craft, just enjoy the story).

How to do it depends on what you're looking for. For analysis purposes, it helps to identify what you're looking for. When I revise a manuscript, I tend to focus on one aspect of the story (e.g., continuity, pacing, grammar, theme, etc.) one each pass through the manuscript, b/c otherwise I'm juggling too much and can't see the forest for the trees, so I'm fixing individual words, and missing the fact that the entire sentence should be cut.

The same is true of analyzing someone else's story. If you're trying to look for language and pov and characterization and description and pacing and exposition and theme and motif and conflict and, and, and, .... you'll get lost. On the other hand, if you know that your own handling of conflict, say, is problematic, then find three to five recently published books by authors known for their handling of conflict, and analyze the books for that one writing tool. It helps to have already read the books, so you're not caught up in the story, and can skim anything that's not relevant to the issue you're studying.

For some issues (pacing and balancing POVs), the analysis is almost mathematical. Just count the pages -- see how the scenes get shorter as the book progresses (pacing); or how many pages are in one POV before another POV is introduced, and how many scenes are in the protagonist's POV and how many are in other POVs. For other issues, the analysis can be a matter of finding a type of passage that you want to study, and then simply typing out 3 to 5 of them (from different authors), which helps to really focus on the individual words, forcing you to slow down and pay attention to the word choice and the flow. (And then, of course, you erase what you've typed. You're not plagiarizing, just working like the apprentice painters used to do -- and perhaps still do? -- copying the masters to get a real feel for their techniques.) This is a particularly good exercise for something like a sex scene or an action scene.

The keys to practical analysis of fiction are: focus on a single technique/tool, study masters of that technique/tool (no point in studying someone who doesn't have any more of ahandle on it than you do, although after you've studied the masters, check out some postings in SYW, analyze them for the technique/tool you've been studying, and see if you can articulate how the technique could be improved, or is already solid, in the SYW excerpts), and look at more than one master to get different aspects of the technique, and see the range of ways it can be used).

JD
 

Claudia Gray

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I read every book for the first time as a reader, just going on the journey the writer has set.

But I am a lifelong re-reader, and I like to use the second (and third, and fourth, and in the case of Gone With The Wind, probably the one-hundredth) read to see how the writer created the journey. I did this before I ever thought about trying to write -- it's fun for me, and I think for a lot of people. Of course, there is also a fair bit of "osmosis" learning too, but conscious study has its place.

I'd say to ask yourself what elements of the book you most admire (characterization? a convincing plot twist? action scenes?) and then go back and pay special attention to the places that deal with those elements. See what words and phrases jump out at you and what new thoughts spring to mind as you read them again. You can get a lot out of an approach as simple as that.
 

Chasing the Horizon

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Some things can be learned by watching movies, but this is never a good way to learn how to write fiction. You may learn something about pace, except that you'll probably forget that pace is going to change dramatically in a novel because all those props, all that setting, the background, all those clothes, That person standing over there as filler, the newsstand behind the character, every last thing you see, must be turned into words.

If you want write fiction, you have to read fiction, and lots of it. Trying to learn how to write fiction by watching a movie makes no more sense than trying to learn how to paint by watching a movie.
No, you can learn a great deal about creating a tight, engaging plot from movies. Since movies don't have the luxury of internal narrative or long scenes of character development, they generally focus strongly on the plot. Since plotting is one of my greatest weaknesses, movies are a good place to learn what sort of plot can support an entertaining story.

Movies are also a place to study 'show don't tell'. Everything must be shown, and they almost always find some natural feeling way to do this (well, if it's a good movie. I don't study crappy movies).

Movies also have less 'time' than books to tell their stories (I've figured that the average 400 page book would take somewhere between 4 and 5 hours to show on the screen, which is too long), so they demonstrate how to tell a streamlined story.

Television shows aren't very helpful for plotting stand-alone novels, as the plot complexity isn't the same, but they're helpful for both series and novellas. Shows with a continuing story that goes on through multiple episodes (Third Watch and E.R. would be examples) have many similarities to a novel series (using the scale of each season being a novel). Particularly, I find it helpful to look at when these shows began going downhill and why.

Non-continuing story shows (like Law & Order), carry a similar complexity in plot to a novella, and are an easy way to develop a feel for how much plot you need for a shorter work.

Movies and books are simply two different mediums for telling a story, but they have the same end goal: to entertain their audience. Saying that watching movies is no more helpful to a writer than an artist is an incorrect analogy because books and movies are very closely related. Besides, watching a movie about how to paint might be quite helpful to an artist. If books and movies were really that different people wouldn't always be making books into movies.

I never said anyone could learn to write by watching movies, or that movies replaced being well-read for a writer. I think writers should strive to be exposed to as many different styles and ideas in all media as possible, including movies, television, and, of course, books. There's something to be learned from every successful story, no matter what its form.

I think the debate about whether taking published books apart helps you learn to write is really a debate of learning styles, more than whether the actual technique is effective. Some people naturally learn better by doing, others like to know as much as possible about what they're doing before they attempt it. No-one can be right or wrong about this, because it's simply a personal preference. I personally don't have the patience to dissect a book and have always learned better by doing. We all have to do what works for us.
 

RLB

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There's a book you really should read. It's called 'Reading like a writer' by Francine Prose. It's not a how-to book but it does give you amazing insight into the writing of others. I've learnt so much from this book.

You beat me to it. I was going to recommend this book as well. I normally go for the osmosis approach , but I thought this book was very instuctive.
 

Anthony Ravenscroft

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Film & TV can readily help you learn how to refine your writing -- they'll suck hugely as exemplars for you to learn to write. It'd be like teaching a raw carpenter's apprentice how to do fine finishing, & then have said naif hang out his shingle because he knew how to turn out finished product -- true on the surface, yet on the surface only.

I sometimes watch seriously bad TV dramas so that I can figure out why they bug the livin' HECK out of me. For instance, Lost and Grey's Anatomy. (As my "bad" is not only entirely subjective but highly biased for various boring reasons, I don't want to hear defenses of these shows.) I can jot down notes about "why didn't they walk the OTHER WAY???" and so on, then later spend a few minutes actively thinking about it.

IMO, "dissecting" a story isn't necessary... but it's a powerful tool. You may only have to do it a few times in what remains of your life. Very few doctors go & practice on cadavers, unless it's maybe a new technique; they have real live (one hopes) patients to practice on.

As ghoulish as that may sound, you do the same when you write, & you write steadily, & you actually finish stuff: you get to the end, you decide whether it's got hopeful signs (or if you've killed it entirely), then you maybe patch it up a bit. Next time you encounter a generally analogous situation, you'll be better prepared to get it right the first time, with less after-surgery fixing.

You can spend years being a private nurse to a questionable patient, or you can work in a hospital -- that is, you can devote yourself to Your Great Novel for a decade or two, or you can crank stuff out -- & eventually stop creating weird wet-pulsing things & work up to stocking your own Moreau Island, & from there to the Baron's monster, & hopefully on upward to something that deserves to stand on its own.

If you're going to make monsters, then you might as well get a feel for how someone else has managed it. Maybe you can pick up some good pointers -- if you don't need pointers, then you probably have no actual need for sites like this except to avoid finishing stuff so that your writing can never be judged -- or, one would hope, you can at least avoid the most blatant gaffes. ("Don't pull on that -- you never know what it might be connected to.") If learning your craft is too much trouble, fine.

Other than all that: "yay, Birol."
 
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