Time spent developing before writing

I'm curious about how long each writer here takes to develop his/her characters, worlds, plots, and so on before starting to write or outline.

When I get an idea that "sticks", I have an instant feel of who the main characters are and a rough idea of plot. I don't feel I can do any writing or true fleshing out of the characters until I have plot down. Plot is my major stumbling block and driver for me. Once I have basic plot down, world creation and plot progress together, both becoming more detailed as I play with the questions, problems and impacts of my choices. Then, I'm able to work on characters and create a basic outline. Unfortunately, my answers don't all come to me by sitting down with pen and paper (or pc). I need to let days or weeks pass by while I mull over the possibilities or wait for the answers to "come to me." In all, my process takes months before I start writing. Anyone else go through a similar (and lengthy) process?

So far, one year and seven months. But, I am writing historical fiction. Much of it is procrastination, I'm sure.

time

Since I don't believe in plotting, I spend zero time there. Since I don't want to know anything at all about my characters except what is revealed naturally through the story, I spend zero time there.

The only time I put in before splurging ahead is getting the opening scene and situation right, and research. Research generally takes two weeks or less. If it's a subject I know little about, or a period in time I know little about, I find two good, authoritative books on the subject or time period and read them straight through, marking important dates or facts with bookmarks as I go.

This takes up to a week with each book, usually less.

Then I start writing and don't stop until I reach the end of the novel.

Re: time

Now, THAT is a system for ya'.

Maybe there's just something not quite right about me -- and I'm sure this is the case -- but I spend an inordinate amount of time developing characters, plots, background in my head. When I sit down at the computer, I pretty much know where I'm going and how to get there. It's the interesting little sidetrips that pop up while I'm at the computer.

Maybe there's just something not quite right about me -- and I'm sure this is the case -- but I spend an inordinate amount of time developing characters, plots, background in my head. When I sit down at the computer, I pretty much know where I'm going and how to get there. It's the interesting little sidetrips that pop up while I'm at the computer.

Click to expand...

I'm the same way, I write entire scenes in my head, all I have to do is get them on paper.

Again, with the trouble posting--grrrrr

Anyway--I am a zero time spent as well. I do spend a bit of time getting the first chapter right but from there I just write.

Shawn

Since I don't believe in plotting, I spend zero time there. Since I don't want to know anything at all about my characters except what is revealed naturally through the story, I spend zero time there.

Click to expand...

Everyone has their own system. On the flip-side of this statement, though, because I believe in plotting, I spend a lot of time there. Because I want to know everything about my characters as I naturally create a story, I spend a lot of time there.

This subject came up in a writers group I attend, and it's interesting to see the divide between those who prefer to plunge -- put characters in situations and let things develop -- and those who prefer to do lots of prework on character and plotting, etc.

If you tend to be a "plotter" (for lack of a better designation) Elizabeth George's book Write Away might interest you. Talk about pre-work! She writes complete character analyses and running plot outlines which include notes on setting, POV, & THADS (talking head avoidance devices). Since I'm more a plotter than a plunger, I picked up some good ideas from her. (A plunger would probably find her ideas unhelpful).

For the non-plotters out there, Shawn and Jamesaritchie in particular, I admire your ability to plunge in. I wish I could to this myself. Perhaps in time...

With your dive right in approach, how much of what you write do you later remove or rewrite during revisions? 5%, 10%, 30% ? I have a feeling the non-plotters would end up throwing out 50% if they plunged in and just wrote away without outlines to keep on track. I'm sure I would! Also, do you have an end in mind when you start? Or a theme?

I tend to start an idea with pen and paper and make notes all over the place and then organize the notes and then research other things I may not be clear on and then sit down and write.

Of course I am no expert writer. I was told once that I don't do enough "homework" beforehand, though. Everyday is another lesson to be learned for me.

~~Tammy

plotting

Actually, last time I checked, the majority of pro novelists don't plot.

I throw out almost nothing. The novel always comes in within 5,000 words one way of the otehr of the length it's supposed to be. That's close enough to leave alone, if I wish, and I sold the first draft of my first novel without changing anything.

I think those who plot don't really understand how situational writing works. It isn't random writing, or just writing whatever pops into your mind. It isn't anything like stream of consciousness.

There is, I think, sort of a general rule that a final draft is the first draft minus ten percent, but that's just tightening, and usually holds true however the novel is written.

If I remember correctly, Robert B. Parker writes five pages each day, and what he writes is what the reader gets. No rewriting at all, and he's considered one of the mor eliterary mystery novelists out there.

It actually takes about a bit less than half as many drafts on average to write a situational novel as it does an outlined novel.

Re: plotting

It seems like it's only a matter of whether you plot it in your head or you use pen/paper or computer to plot it. Some people don't feel comfortable keeping everything in their head, and some do.

Re: plotting

No, no, no--see that's it. When you write without an outline, you don't plot anything out in your head or on paper. You just write.

You sit.

You get idea--small idea. As simple as A man sees a woman sitting on a park bench.

You know nothing about the woman or the man or why they are in the park. So you start typing words and the story comes and you learn about the plot and characters as you write the same way the reader would who just picked up the book. Heck, I don't even know the genre until, say a character shows me he can use magic or that the park in on a space ship--etc.

And you learn things as you go--and when you hit the end, the thing makes sense, it flows, it's magic. The plot works without glaring holes--that's not to say you don't need to edit, but the story works. No plotting and no planning.

Shawn

Re: plotting

And you learn things as you go--and when you hit the end, the thing makes sense, it flows, it's magic. The plot works without glaring holes--that's not to say you don't need to edit, but the story works. No plotting and no planning.

Click to expand...

How can you be sure that your plot has no glaring holes and that the story works? And that you didn't write something that is cliche? Seems too "magical" to me.

Re: plotting

I wish I could answer that. I really do. But I can't. I don't know.:shrug

I write, the story works, and everything makes sense. And other true seat of the pants writers are the same, at least the ones I have talked to.

On another BB, I got into this same thing and no one understood or believed me. I ended up having to leave the BB because people said, but you can't write a book that way. Sigh. At least I know there are a few other non-planners here who do understand, maybe they can tell you the way it works.

I honestly have no idea. It's like the story is all there in my head, but I can't see it until I write each word on the page. I'm simply the tool the characters use to tell their story.

Shawn

Re: plotting

"pro-novelists don't plot"

Who? Are you saying that an outline is the same as a plot, by chance?

Re: time

>Since I don't want to know anything at all about my characters except what is revealed naturally through the story...

How do you keep your characters' reactions consistent? Do you go over and read what you've written previously (editing as you go)?

The reason I ask is I'm wondering if you find you get character drift. For example, mannerisms change, or speech patterns change or so on.

Cheers,

Euan

Re: time

We are not talking about the plot of the book here, we are talking about plotting out what will happen. Well, I guess that is basically the plot. LOL

I can't understand how anyone can outline and plot out a whole book then write it. UGH. I mean, OK I get it--you decide this is what you want to happen and then decide how the characters will get from a to b and from b to c and so on. But once I outline and plot out (map) the entire story, I'm done with it. I know the end, and that's it--my brain turns off, my muse escapes, next idea and story please.

I don't edit as I go. I do read the last page or two I wrote before I start writing each day--but that's not to check how Sam is going to react when Jill shoots his dog. It's to get back into that story as I have several going at any one time.

In a recent book I had the idea I stated above. A man sees a woman sitting on the back of a park bench.

So I sat down, started writing and discovered that she was sitting on a bench in a park I knew from my childhood and teen years. I had no idea until I typed the words Lake Side Park. I didn't have an idea the bench was the one near the pier or that it was the one on the left side behind the bandstand and near the hot-dog kiosk, again, until I typed those words.

The man, the very first sentence started with the word "I." When I had the thought of a man sees a woman sitting on the back of a park bench, I had no idea it would even be a first person story. Other than class assignments, I'd never done a first person story and certainly not a first person novel. But there it was, I parked the Jag on the --wow, in that first line I discovered the man drove a Jag. And when he got out of the car I discovered his race, and that he was the new owner of the kiosk. Shortly after that I knew the woman was homeless. (or I thought she was, because that's what the main character (the man) assumed.) Many chapters later I discovered she was a time traveler--but in chapter one, she was a homeless woman and that was it--one that spooked the main character pretty bad.

The character's reactions are natural to them and the story.

By the end of the first chapter, I knew that the story would have a mystical quality to it. The woman vanishes into the fog--gone--poof. Did I know where she went or when she would reappear--or even if she would reappear?--nope. Not until chapter three when she shows up in the ER of the hospital where the main character is a doctor.

And so on. Mannerisms stay the same, characters don't drift unless something in their life changes them with good reason. And the story does work. Magic--who knows, maybe. LOL

Shawn

Re: time

OH and--King and Anne Rice are two writers I can think of who do not plot out or outline their work.

Shawn

Re: time

Thanks for a great post, Shawn! I particularly liked this:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"But once I outline and plot out (map) the entire story, I'm done with it. I know the end, and that's it--my brain turns off, my muse escapes, next idea and story please.<hr></blockquote>

That's just so exactly how it is for me, too.

Re: time

>> Actually, last time I checked, the majority of pro novelists don't plot.<<

This is a huge generalization. I just can't imagine making such a sweeping statement about any aspect of the writing process, given the very large number of pro novelists and the unlikelihood of knowing the majority of them.

I know many pro novelists who plot, including myself (by which I mean anything from a brief synopsis to weeks of meticulous research and pre-planning). To imply that plotting or pre-planning is somehow less "pro" is not just insulting to those who do pre-plan, it's damaging to new writers still in search of a method, because it implies that plotting or pre-planning is somehow inferior. It's not--it's just what works, if it's what works for you.

- Victoria

Situational Writing?

Jamesaritchie ...

I wondered if you could clue me in to what "situational writing" is?

I've been doing a lot of reading since finding this forum - (great place!) - and I've seen you mention situational writing a couple of times.

I've never come across the term before.

Thanks! :snoopy

Re: time

I agree with Victoria. I know as many pro writers who plot/outline as those who don't. Whatever works! I kind of got the impression from one of the posters that if you did plot/outline first that it was a sign of an amateur as opposed to a "pro." I disagree.

I'm a plotter. I tried to do "let it grow organically" on the last novel. What a mess I created. I had to start all over again from page 1 -- after I created an outline.

Like I said, whatever works for YOU is the only correct way.

Linda

Re: time

SRHowen wrote:

OH and--King and Anne Rice are two writers I can think of who do not plot out or outline their work.

Click to expand...

Alas, they read like it, too. They've each done a few truly great stories, but they tend to be hit-or-miss on whether their endings are satisfying, or even make any sense.

Have Fun,
- Steve Eley