Total Newbie Here (Hi, Guys); Question about how much "Say" I have with my agent?

Hmm . . . I think it might make it easier to help out if you told us specifics, what he wants to change and what your vision is.

But I think to try to answer right now, you have to go with your gut. You've already said you are willing to sacrifice being published in order to see your vision come true, so I think that answers your question. Totally talk it through with your agent, and if he disagrees then you could go your separate ways. In a way it's quite nice that you know that you will not compromise and are willing to deal with those consequences, I think it makes sticking by your principles a whole lot easier.

Your agent works for you, not the other way around.

I am curious on if this is an unfinished project...? From what you have wrote, it sounds like something that hasn't been written.

Just remember that you are the one paying the agent to be your representative. But, the reason you are paying them is because they are an expert in areas that you are not an expert in. Specifically, what will sell and how to sell it.

If you'd rather not get published then publish it different from your vision, I would start out by saying that you feel strongly in your vision for the book. If that doesn't work, say you are unwilling to do it a different way.

As is the usual course, an agent will generally hammer out the details of a non-fiction project before he takes you on. I don't know why that was not done here. You must be an exception to this rule by having provided him with a solid outline and perhaps three chapters. Photos and line drawings are very expensive to reproduce and the time to ask if they can be included might be with a publisher that takes on the project. And of course that is down the road. This sounds like a memoire (I might be wrong), and straight narrative is most often called for.

In this case, I would listen patiently to your agent's suggestions and keep your alternate book plan on the shelf for the time being.

Much good luck to you getting this straightened out. It sounds like you have a great agent.

Tri

writerwithagent2 said:

Toothpaste, thanks. I haven't contacted him with my "declaration" yet, but plan to in the next day or so.

Don't want to give too many details, but I think his vision is to do a straightforward (a.k.a. safe) book/narrative about my story; while my vision is to do a totally different kind of book (one with photos, illustrations, lists, etc.) I understand it's a risk on my part, as the increased cost of producing such a book will make it harder to sell. However, my vision for the book is so clear, and I believe it's potentially very marketable.

Just didn't want to do anything crazy (i.e. put the kybosh on the other idea; go with my idea) before running it by a few souls first!

Thanks again.

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I'm a photographer myself, and I've talked a fair bit with my own agent about an illustrated book. Your vision . . . photos, lists, illustrations . . . will, if insisted upon, probably make your book unsaleable as a first-time author if it's any kind of memoir or life story, as you imply.

The only exception to this would be if you're already, say, a famous actor or musician, or tv personality.

My publisher has a grown up illustrated book division that sells some of the biggest illustrated works out there. Read about Clarkson Potter. Does your story fit an imprint like that?

If not, I strongly suggest you heed the agent's advice to write a book filled with words alone, for a forst work.

I don't know if an audience of 20,000 does it for a publisher; I suspect not. How many would actually buy the book? 5%? 10%?

The percentage of the population that actually buys books is pretty small.

Write and sell some print books. Get a following that buys books and can be quantified. Then look at the picture book project. That's what I plan to do.

I had a similar problem. I wrote about the second largest Ice Age (megafauna) discovery in the U.S., being provided with all of the photographs, drawings, clippings, and quotes from the original dig team. I assembled it in a journalistic format and submitted it to about 15 agents. Without fail, all 15 agents said it was surely a "seller", but that it should be written in plain narrative style, much like a non-fiction story. Which meant no bullets, sidebars, photos, line-drawings and other inclusions.

I was heartbroken.

Well, that really killed its chances and I've been sitting on that book ever since. It sounds to me like you already have a good first-person narrative account here, so I would go with that and hold off on the other items for inclusion. Like John states above, this is a math/numbers game for a first book and the production costs do play a larger role in the style and format arena.

Tri

It's all very well to dream of how you would love to see this project but are you REALLY certain that you'd rather not have it published, than published the way your agent sees it?

Because you must be absolutely aware that this is the risk you are taking. Go into it with your eyes open; don;t be misled by your vision.

I took the risk a few years ago, and lost. It was a completely different sort of project, and it was my fourth book, not my first; nevertheless, my editor had a very clear idea what kind of book I should write for this one (it was supposed to be my breakout novel). I had other ideas, and a finished manuscript I really believed in and was certain would make it commercially.

Both my editor and agent disagreed. I thought it would be easy to get another agent and publisher, as I was so in love with my idea. It wasn't. I fired my agent after my publisher rejected the ms.

That was in 2005, and the book is still not published,. I have written another one in the mean time, that is more commercial, and still have hopes for the-one-that-got-away. But it's in a bottom drawer and will have to stay there until I have succeeded with something more commercial.


Do I regret my decision? No. I grew a lot through the process and because I had to start from square one I had to put a lot more effort into my next book, just like a first time author. It did me good, but jeez, it was TOUGH. HARD. It almost ruined me financially (I survived - till now). I've cried and sweat blood i the intervening years. But I happen to believe in growing through the hard times. Do you? Are you prepared? If you are prepared, then go for it.
But you have to be fully aware that your vision JUST MIGHT NOT WORK OUT.

If I had been sensible I would have taken the safe option, written the breakout novel they wanted, made a success out of it, and THEN published the book I wanted. It would not have been a bad decision, just because it is safe. It is certainly more businesslike.


As writers we are often so in love with our visions/work that we lose sight of the reality. Agents are there to help us, an din the long run their expertise can be better for us. It's your decision. Like I said, I don't regret mine but I would not wish it o anybody else and I would advise another writer to take the safer route.

Aruna speaks the truth.

But what I think we're all missing is that Writerwithagent2 isn't really a writer, true? Perhaps it's not his/her passion to be published but rather a passion to do a project his/her own way. Once this book is finished -- will writerwithagent2 continue to write? These are all things we don't know and therefore can't possibly direct him/her in the right direction.

I have gone the opposite direction of Aruna. I have edited and changed my work as my ex-agent and potential editor wanted me to -- to the point of hating everything about that manuscript and walking away from writing for quite awhile because I was disgusted, disheartened and flat out unmotivated. The manuscript still hasn't sold. Is it good? I don't know. The writing is solid but it's not the original story I'd wanted to tell. But I'm a writer. It is my passion to sell. And I'll keep on going, keep on heading the advice of the professionals (i.e. editors/agents) who know more than I do about what will get published and what will not. Because I am not an editor. I am not an agent. I am a writer.

J.

My suggestion: Tread softly.

"sending the ULTIMATUM letter to my agent "

Please don't do it unless you are sure you are willing to risk never having any book published, ever. Spend a week doing nothing but going through this entire site to learn about the struggles writers face. Many people think they have the great idea that is going to produce a bestseller. But the chances of actually getting an agent, much less a publisher, are miniscule. You are very fortunate to have an agent. You really don't even know if you can write yet. Writing for the web is different than writing a book which will be readable to the public. Many people come to this site thinking they can write only to find out they need to learn how, and that could very well happen to you too. When it comes to publishing, it all comes down to the bottom line. Your ideal book is too expensive to produce. Even most successful writers would not be in a position to make the kinds of demands you are suggesting. You are very lucky to have what you have right now. You have an incredible opportunity since you have an agent who supports your project. This is a real fluke. It would be a shame to see you lose it due to naivete' about how the business works.

Hi. . . the only bit of advice I can think to give is this - My agent worked as an editor for many years at serval big name publishing houses. So when she tells me "this will sell better" or "this doesn't sound right." I get a peek into the eyes of how editors think. I'm not sure what your vision is - but if you are wanting photography on every page or something to that nature . . . unless you have written a non-ficition book that must have these types of images - then your agent is probably right. It is EXTREMELY difficult to sell something like that - because it costs so much to print all those images - the company will have more in the book than possibly they can make back - not to say your book is not going to be great and sell well - I'm sure it will. Publishers however - like to be sure they are bringing in more than they are putting into the book.

Find out with a little googling and asking around - if your agent has ever been an editor or an aquisitions editor or assistant. If he's as great as you say - I'm sure he knows what he is doing. Good things come from not compromising - but it can also lead to no sales - if it's over something that is just going to cost an outragous amount of dough - long story short . . . listen to your agent. Oh, and word gets around fast if a client is hard to work with . . . don't be hard to work with! These days - if you ever want to see your name become big - you HAVE to have one!

Good luck! Hope this helps.

Whatever you decide: good luck! You sound sensible enough to make the right decision - for you.

Best of luck to you, and no matter what happens, please let us know.

You sound very grounded and you're doing all the right things. Asking questions, getting opinions and thinking it all through. Probably a good down-to-earth discussion with your agent about what your vision is compared to his and his proper explanation as to why that won't work would help. Do it on the phone, though -- because it's so easy to misread email. I reread my earlier post and realized I sounded like a bitch -- which wasn't my intention. I guess I hadn't had enough caffeine. I didn't mean that you weren't a writer but that you just had other platforms that were driving your career, etc. etc. and that your "vision" right now seems more important than publication.

Anyway, best of luck and keep us posted. And there's nothing wrong with asking your agent for the best way to communicate with him. This is a business relationship. If you had hired someone to remodel your house and called with plan changes, you'd certainly expect them to respond to you in a timely fashion. If your agent says "email, but it'll be a week or two before I can get back to you." Then you know and won't be as frustrated. In the meantime, write on!

J.

Lack of communication may mean the agent wants you to write the book rather than have a long drawn out dialog about how to do it. Why don't you write your vision out-complete your book - at that point you and the agent can have a dialogue about what is actually on paper instead of debating things which do not exist. I hear you say you have a particular idea (vision) but in my experience you lose a lot of creativity by talking about it rather than writing.
Get a rough draft done. Who knows. Maybe the agent will see your draft and decide it's a good idea.

A book of mine was in the hands of a publisher's editor who talked me into doing re-writes that seriously veered away from the book I'd set out to write. Then that publisher was taken over by Harper Collins and had to drop their planned women's fiction list. I was left with a de-railed book that I didn't know how to get back on track. I lost heart in writing what was a) a potentially good story and b) something that I had been enjoying.

I then asked myself why this editor wanted to so drastically change a book that had interested her in its original form.

The lesson I learned was to carry out some editing as suggested by a professional, as long as it doesn't change the original character of the story that interested them in the first place. Even more importantly be true to my own instincts.

This book will never get published, but it was mine and I allowed someone else to mess it up.