Delusional Writers

When I was in high school in the late '80s, I started checking out books from the library on the craft and business of writing. I knew I wanted to write and I wanted to learn the mechanics of how it was supposed to be done professionally: manuscript formats, editing, agents and publishers, and how to actually write a book. In college I bought books on writing so I could learn more ("How to Write and Publish Your First Novel" is one that I bought). When I started actually writing, I was pretty well educated on the basics of the business and mechanics of writing (knowing of course, that I was not an expert). Developing my own writing skills, however, was the task that I really had to work on. I made no illusions that my first attempts were pure gold. I knew my first stories were crap when I wrote them, but I continued to try to improve my writing by writing more, and reading whatever I could get my hands on that interested me.

But what gets me nowadays is how delusional many writers I run into or read about are.

For instance, I attended a small writers group last year at a bookstore, featuring a panel of published regional authors, and an editor for Writers Digest magazine. Most of the questions asked were "newbie" type questions, but here is the one I still shake my head about, asked by a 40ish guy.

He said he had sent his manuscript,which he and all of his friends thought was really awesome, to (I think) Michael Chrichton for his opinon. He didn't understand why the manuscript was returned with a note saying that the author didn't read manuscripts. He figured this author had the time to read it, and that it was very unreasonable that it was returned to him.

Now, what is up with that? Even when I was in high school I knew that famous authors wouldn't read unsolicited manuscripts for varieties of reasons!

Then there's that thread about the guy who tried to auction his manuscript on eBay for $150,000. I followed the thread on that linked blog and found it very interesting (but I still don't understand why all the vowels in that guy's postings were gone. It made his posts impossible to read.). Does he HONESTLY believe his manuscript will sell this way? HONESTLY? Has he NEVER picked up a book on writing and publishing? I mean come ON!

Then I read all these posts about authors who state that they just had their book published by PA and they are very happy they are now "published authors." Have they NEVER read a negative post about PA? The thread on Absolutewrite about PA goes on for over a hundred pages! If am following the numbers right, there are hundreds of PA authors who are disappointed with PA and are planning litigation. Bookstores won't even stock POD books because of the non-returns policies and quality issues. Doesn't anybody read and research before they sign on with PA? Aren't they aware that if they POD their first book(s), that can have a serious detriment on their future efforts with finding real publishers?

When I didn't think my Cincinnati Subway book would ever get published, I didn't jump aboard POA. Instead I put the manuscript away and tended to other things until I found the right publisher a couple of years later. After 3200 copies it's still selling.

So, what is it with today's up and coming authors?

underthecity

I run into these types fairly often and I know it is frustrating. I grit my teeth every time my local paper (which serves a city of 200,000+) does a glowing story on a first time self-published author and did get rather agitated when the local paper then refused to do a story on the 2 books I had published by Scholastic last year on the grounds that they were books for children!

However, I have decided it is not worth the time to try to de-delude these types. One of the great virtues of living in a capitalist society is that time and the marketplace will sort them out - and if it is so important to them to have "published" a book, then let them have the ego massage. It doesn't affect the quality of your writing or your chances of landing a contract with a traditional publisher.

Making Light (and making lies)

underthecity wrote:

Then there's that thread about the guy who tried to auction his manuscript on eBay for $150,000. I followed the thread on that linked blog and found it very interesting (but I still don't understand why all the vowels in that guy's postings were gone. It made his posts impossible to read.).

Click to expand...

Teresa Nielsen Hayden (who owns that blog) disemvowelled him because he showed himself to be a lunatic, and he was getting annoying. She considers it more fun than simply deleting objectionable comments -- and you can in fact still read the posts if you try hard enough.

As for people engaging in self-deception, I believe you get that in every profession. If writing is unusually bad, it's only because the actual business of writing is so poorly understood by the general public, and because it's one of those crafts (like cooking, or music) where people tend to believe that "anybody can do it."

What's missing is objective feedback to the contrary. Most of us can look in the mirror and realize, with varying degrees of frustration, that we're never going to make it into the NBA. The mirror can't tell you that your prose is lousy and your stories are boring. Your friends might be able to tell you that, but most of them won't.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley

Re: Making Light (and making lies)

Many people want fast and easy success without paying dues. It's in our culture, especially in the "entertainment" world -- yes, I consider novel writing "entertainment" as opposed to pure journalism. The allure of fast road to success (American Idol, Star Search, reality TV, etc.) makes people think that all they need is some "celebrity" to endorse them and they'll have it made. It doesn't occur to them that the people who actually succeed beyond the initial fame have paid their dues and mastered and continue to master their craft. The American Idols don't just wake up one day and decide to be a singer and become a star (despite the freak phenomenon that is "William Hung"). People don't walk into an auditon and suddenly become a movie star (it happened but it's 1:million chance).

Same with writers. Many people think they have great ideas and all they have to do is to pick up a pen (or type it in a computer) and they will have a best seller. They don't recognize it takes hard work, talent, and a little bit of luck... but most of all, hard work -- learning the skills.

I decided to write again six years ago, but I have always been writing when I was younger. And when I decided I wanted to write again, I didn't just whip up some first draft and call it a masterpiece. I went to school. I studied the craft. I learned. Then I started writing short stories. Some of them were good, and some of them were crap. I kept learning, and three years ago I decided I could do it. But it still took me three years to get to where I am now. I'm still not quite there yet, but that's the greatest thing about the writer's life.

Writing is for life.

Re: Making Light (and making lies)

I think many fail to make a distinction between simply engaging in the act of writing, as in putting words on paper) and writing professionally (as in for publication). Because anyone can do the first kind of writing (assuming they know how to read and write on some basic level) there is an assumption on the part of many that simply putting the words on paper is all that is needed to become a "writer." The likes of PA have further blurred the lines by allowing anyone who can put words on paper to call themselves a "published writer."

To me it's like someone with no medical training picking up a scalpel and performing surgery. Can anyone cut someone else open and remove things from their body? Sure. Assuming you can get the victim to cooperate. But if laws were passed tomorrow that allowed anyone to perform surgery regardless of the quality of their work or the extent of their training, would you use just anybody or would you seek out the persons who have training and demonstrated skill?

Then there is the whole instant fame and instant gratification thing. So many people today have an air of entitlement about them, a perception that they can have anything they want and have it right now by simply asking for it. No need to work or put in any time learning the tricks of a trade or the skill needed to do something well. Just gimme gimme gimme.

As someone else mentioned, the marketplace will likely weed out the yahoos over time but I'm not sure it's going to happen very quickly.

Beth

Tish is right: Choose your battles. Don't try to steer them towards the light. If these people are going to learn anything about the realities of being a writer/author, they have to learn it the hard way.

At the same time, you can't put someone down just because they didn't do their homework or tried to learn how to write. (Not that I'm saying that you are; it's just a comment.) While anyone serious about succeeding as a writer should indeed do their homework before submitting and take time to study the craft, not everyone is going to do this -- and they must lie in the bed they've made.

You made the right approach with your book, good for you. We can only hope there are other people that will follow your cue.

But don't take what you've seen and read to represent every single "up and coming" author. There are some out there who ARE doing their homework and taking time to learn how to write.

Perhaps my phrasing was a bit off when I referred to the up-and-comers. Obviously I didn't mean to imply that ALL new authors aren't doing their homework before writing and submitting. But I have seen (and so has everyone else here) plenty of posts from newer writers asking basic questions like "should I double space my manuscript?" I think my problem here is that a new writer can get all of his questions asked by picking up almost any book on writing, instead of visiting writers website forums and asking the questions.

Asking for advice on what you've already written is a different matter altogether, although many authors advise against sharing your work until it is completely finished. However, it is good to know right away whether what you're writing is on the "right track" in terms of grammar and structure.

THAT I don't have a problem with.

Thanks for the replies, though. I was hoping for some interesting discussion.

underthecity

Let's not neglect narcissism as a factor in the "delusional writer" syndrome. I think the unrealistic ambitions of these people (and of wannabes in other fields) are driven by fantasies about finally becoming recognized as wonderful.

>>Then there is the whole instant fame and instant gratification thing.<<

This is one of the silliest delusions of all--the idea that writing is a glamorous celebrity-type activity that will generate loads of cash, recognition, and respect.

Ha!

- Victoria

Yeah, I know what you mean Victoria.

You know what writing gets me?

Being a writer means you are going to be lonely your entire life. No matter how many people you meet, you will never be able to get close enough to any of them. Either they will like you, but be intimidated by your talent, or they will completely hate you for something you have written, or no reason whatsoever.

This isn't a glamorous lifestyle. it isn't about money.

Another thing these delusionists seem to think is that writing will make them rich bloody billionairs:money like J. K. Rowling or something. if writers knew anything about business economics, we'd have better sense than to become writers.

I've had my 15 minutes as a "slam poet" and I didn't make a dime, i could've, but I didn't really try. forget hollywood, you sell your soul in the mires of independant publishing. you want to talk about delusions of grandeur and narcissicism...:ha go to a poetry slam.

I'm trying to publish a novel with all the expected trials and tribulations. And I just have to grit my teeth so I don't bite the heads off people who come up with this brilliant idea of why don't I just upload my novel onto the Internet, or better yet, just publish it myself. Then I'll be a published author!

I tried to show them the error of their ways, but it's futile. Now I just smile, keep my mouth shut, nod, and go away.

I'm in the middle of a science fiction convention this weekend, and another writer brought up the subject of self-publishing because her uncle did that with his novel. I was steeling myself against what came next when she said, "yeah, and I think he got about $50 in sales, too."

Yeah, about right.

Mind you, I can think of a couple types of instances where self-publishing might be the way to go, but only a couple, and not with a commercial type novel.

I suppose I could have self-published my first novel, but I also didn't even consider it. If it can't stand up to the "peer review" of the publishing world, then it's obviously not good enough to be out there. I was very fond of it and I put a lot of effort into it, and since I don't have a trunk, it's tucked in the back of a file cabinet.

And, I think..

That many "writers" may actually look into how to write a book, but not into the BUSINESS of publication. That's where they don't do their homework. They no nothing about what goes on once the ms. leaves their hands.

Which, I think (and I am by no means an expert, I just research everything I do to death) is just as important as knowing HOW to write a book.

Style and grammar and formatting can be taught. Imagination and creativitiy are inherent.
But if you want to see that book on the shelves, you really need to educate yourself. A writer is a business person too.

I can think of a lot of instances where self publishing is the way to go, and I've helped people do it.

One is for people who make their living going on speaking tours. This is a lucrative business many people do. It helps if they have a table with a few books to offer the audience. These books give the speaker extra prestige and extra profit. Chances of getting these books published through regular channels are usually nil. Usually, for these people, there are much cheaper, more reliable, ways to go than the over hyped vanity press ads we see in the backs of writer's magazines.

There are people who write things for friends and family, often memoirs or histories, to give as gifts, or inheritances. It does not matter how well written they are not "marketable" in the terms we use. I helped a lady write a local history to be sold in the small, out of the way, museum she runs.

Of course there are academics who self publish as standard practice.

Some mail order businesses would not exist if it weren't for self publishing.

There is a legitimate place for self publishing.

However if you are looking to become a professionally recognized commercial writer, with a chance to become a midlist, or bestselling author, you are going to have to find your way somehow to the traditional publishing houses.

I doubt if that will change any time soon.

We live in an in age where people expect instant gratification, the media focuses on stories and events where ordinary people become millionaires or celebrities over night by winning the lottery, inventing a gadget that the world can't live without, or being an unknown, cast in a subsequently oscar winning movie. Yep all these events are rare, but because of the the attention they receive, they seem commonplace. I think it is no different for would-be-writers. They are emboldened by the few over night success stories; writers who put pen to paper for the first time and not only write a book, but get it published and it's a runaway success. A famous romance novelist (sorry it's early and her name escapes me) who after reading a ton of Harlequins told her husband she could write one, proceeded to do so and was consequently published, comes to mind. There have also been a few authors, who have achieved critical acclaim at a very young age, whose success would also fuel those "why not me" fantasies for some would be authors. Then there is the self publishing market - it also does much to promote the delusion that anyone can write.

People are also inherently egotistical. It is easy to become enamoured with your own words, and after receiving accolades from your mother and spouse, you become convinced that the world will also find your thoughts riveting.

I think also, that while people are perfectly aware when they do not have musical or artistic talent, they do not understand that writing is also an art form, one which takes years to develop. They cannot grasp the distinction between the basic ability to read and write which anyone can do, and the perseverance of actually learning the art (and it is an art) of writing well.

jmo.

The instant gratification motive is fairly consistent with my experience.

For example, I've noted that in screenwriting forums, as opposed to novel or short story forums, the people seem to be a lot more crabby and spiteful.

They also can't spell their way out of a paper bag.

Aside from the self publishing thing, I get that recommended to me all the time. My response is that if all I wanted was for a lot of people to have my novels, I'd simply run off copies at Kinkos and hand them out at the mall. That's a lot cheaper than self publishing, and about as gratifying.

writing

New writers expecting me to read their manuscript is one that my agents helps deal with. I have a clause in my contract with her that forbids me from reading an unsold, unpublished manuscript. This isn't an enforceable clause, and I sometimes violate it for friends, but it's there to help protect me from lawsuits, and it is useful.

I guess writing can be a profession that brings much fame and glamour, if you're a Stephen King or a Normain Mailer, but I've found many writers soon tire of the fame and just want to be left alone to write.

What I can't stand are all the new writers who hold the view that you have to know someone to get published, that's it's a closed business. Silliness. Or that you already have to be famous, or that it's all subjective and talent and skill and hard work has nothing to do with it. Or that you don't have to read as much as you write, or that you don't have to master grammar and punctuation and language and a dozen other skills. Or that publishers and agents aren't looking for new writers. Of course they are, they just want new writers who can actually write well and tell stories well.

It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you simply may lack the talent and the skill, that you just may not be good enough to make the cut, but it astounds me that so few take the time to sudy the business side of writing. As they say, "Writing is an art, publishing is a business." It's true.

Re: writing

Many published writers do not read unpublished material. I learned it when I wanted to send my ms. to a friend of mine, who was a published author. She wrote back and said her agent advised her not to read anything like that, even from their best friends. She didn't give me a reason, but I think it has to do with lawsuits and liability. At first I was somewhat miffed, then I understood the issue.


p.s. the flip side of this thread is that many agents won't give a new/unpublished writer a chance if the story doesn't "fit their needs." So a lot of talented, good writers slip through the cracks and stay in the slush pile not because they can't write or can't tell a story, but because their stories don't fit the current "best-selling" trend. I have an agent telling me "no one wants to read male chick lit" and meanwhile Grisham, Patterson, Sparks and others all have and continue to write best-selling "male chick lit." So it's kind of discouraging when an agent or editor is close-minded -- they're more focused on the "story" they're looking for, instead of the investing in the writer; the golden eggs instead of the goose that lays them.

Re: writing

You know what gets to me, though? These same delusional writers wondering why the heck I haven't, ahem, "sold out" to PA or their ilk.

Re: writing

We live in an in age where people expect instant gratification, the media focuses on stories and events where ordinary people become millionaires or celebrities over night by winning the lottery, inventing a gadget that the world can't live without, or being an unknown, cast in a subsequently oscar winning movie.

Click to expand...

What these folks don't see is that instant gratification is a myth -- except possibly in the case of the lottery winner. But most lottery winners play consistently, spending lots of money on tickets. Inventors almost always have a garage full of "failures" (first drafts, if you will) and that unknown who stars in an Oscar-winning movie has generally had lots of acting lessons, and has been acting since he/she was a kid.

The famous romance novelist above may have had her first attempt published by Harlequin, but that likely wasn't the novel that made her famous. J.K. Rowling may have been a single mom on welfare when she wrote the first Harry Potter book, but she was an English teacher before that. She knows how to use the language.

I hear when James talks about wanna-be's who don't think they need to write a lot or read anything in order to become famous.

Get with the program, folks! Writing ain't brain surgery or rocket science, but it's still a skill that needs to be learned and practiced.

I Couldn't NOT Comment

Quote:

Being a writer means you are going to be lonely your entire life. No matter how many people you meet, you will never be able to get close enough to any of them. Either they will like you, but be intimidated by your talent, or they will completely hate you for something you have written, or no reason whatsoever.


This is a ridiculous statement, tragically romanticized, melodramatic, (dare I say delusional?) view on the life of a writer. Staring at that blank computer screen can make your feel terribly alone. But lonely your entire life? Never get close enough to anyone?

If you're feeling like you are alone and will never be close to anyone, Luckky, it is not because you are a writer. Writing may be your outlet for dealing with those feelings, but it is not the source of those problems.

I sincerely and in all seriousness suggest that you speak to someone about your feelings of isolation. They are not normal for a writer and they are not healthy for anybody.

Best of luck,
Simon

Re: I Couldn't NOT Comment

Hmm, well I don't agree about the lonely factor. You do and can feel alone in the endeavor. Thus the number of people on these boards.

I have writer friends, some published, some not, some well known others not.

But in the circle of people I deal with everyday--my daughter's friends parents, customers at 7-eleven, girl scout people, boy scout people--family--you say I'm a writer and they give you the oh really look and the conversation either goes to I've always wanted to write a book or they melt away into the crowd.

When you sit and tap the keys no else is there--it's you and the characters, a lonely endeavor you do by yourself.

So those feelings can be very real.

Shawn

Re: I Couldn't NOT Comment

Hmm...

I sort of agree with Simon here. Alone does not necessarily equal lonely.

When I'm writing, I'm alone with my characters, but I'm not lonely. When I'm not writing and want to be with people, I can converse about a number of topics other than writing, if the person I'm with doesn't want to talk about what I'm writing at the moment. (Or what (s)he is writing at the moment, for that matter...)

That isn't unusual. When you're with a factory worker or a lawyer or a member of any other profession, do they talk about their work all the time? Chances are, if they do you're going to think they're a bore. So why do we writers automatically think that telling people we're writers should automatically shift the conversation to writing.

If you're lonely all the time, even outside your writing time, you may need help.

If you're lonely (as opposed to alone) while you're writing, perhaps you need a different occupation -- one that will allow you to interact more with people. Perhaps you need to balance writing and non-writing time (yes, there should be some.) Or perhaps you just need to accept the situation and live with it.

Re: I Couldn't NOT Comment

Luckky didn't just say she was lonely, SR. She said was going to be lonely her ENTIRE life. Said she was never going to get close enough to ANYONE. Said people will either be intimidated by you or hate you.

And to me that sounds like someone who is extremely disconnected from others. And considering Luckky's profile says she's only 20, I say this is not a healthy view for someone that young to have. And, again, I say it is not because she is a writer.

I'm also a writer been a writer for quite some time, and in that time I've met a lot of people. Of course people react all kinds of ways when they hear that your a writer. But I've become very close to many of the people I've met since I've been quote a writer. I've become intimate with quite a few. It is ridiculous to say that writing leads to a life of lonliness or everyone you meet will be intimidated or jealous. It is a ludicrous statement. The process is lonely, the life is not - or at least shouldn't be.

And as for the reactions of people you meet, you'd get that reaction for any career people deem "interesting" and creative careers in the arts, are generally deemed "interesting".

I still say that if someone feels like they can't get close to anyone, they should address that and figure out why.

Newbie Questions

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Obviously I didn't mean to imply that ALL new authors aren't doing their homework before writing and submitting. But I have seen (and so has everyone else here) plenty of posts from newer writers asking basic questions like "should I double space my manuscript?" I think my problem here is that a new writer can get all of his questions asked by picking up almost any book on writing, instead of visiting writers website forums and asking the questions. <hr></blockquote>

You know, a year or two ago I probably would have chimed in right along with you on this gripe. But I've come to realize that the times are a changin' and the Internet and its various resources serve as the library or bookstore for many folks today. When I think about how quickly I turn to the computer myself to do research, I can't help but wonder just how big of an offense it is when someone else does the same, even if it's for something I consider "basic."

So, a question...is going to a library or bookstore and buying/checking out a book on a topic somehow more worthy an effort than looking for that same info via computer, whether it be Internet searches or message board posts? (Personally, I'm inclined to say "yes" but if someone were to ask me why, I don't have an answer other than that I'm an old-fashioned fuddy duddy.)

Beth

writing

"the flip side of this thread is that many agents won't give a new/unpublished writer a chance if the story doesn't "fit their needs." So a lot of talented, good writers slip through the cracks and stay in the slush pile not because they can't write or can't tell a story, "

To be perfectly honest, while you do have to write what people want to read, I think the above is the biggest myth of all. I hear constantly that a lot of talented, good writers slip thrugh the cracks, but in looking through many a slush pile, I've yet to find any of them.