When can you start writing to agents?

I'm in the process of writing my first novel - I have over 80,000 words, and I'm starting to believe that the dang thing may actually be finished someday.

When can I start writing away to agents? I've read various books and talked to people in the industry, but I keep getting conflicting information - some say you shouldn't write to an agent until your book is finished and polished, others say you can start writing off as soon as you have your first few chapters in readable condition.

I have about the first 30,000 words polished and ready to go, but the other 50,000 are in bits and pieces from all over the book. Can I start writing to agents now? Or, if they're interested and then find out I don't have the book complete, will I have blown my one chance?

Thanks!

eclec -

You should not start contacting agents until your novel is completed, revised, edited, reviewed by some critical eyes and then edited again.

You do not want your novel going out until you feel it is in a place where an agent would take it as is and send it to a publisher.

Maybe you are mixing-up submission advice for non-fiction - which you can submit to agents if you have a proposal and a few sample chapters.

Finding the right agent is an arduous task, so maybe you can start doing the legwork for that now.

Thanks, Simon!

What's been confusing me is the fact that I've sent those first 30,000 words to two friends, both managing editors in respected publishing houses here (Ireland) - and both of them said that, as friends, they recommended I get an agent. (They both also said they're very interested in the book, which was nice...) I said, 'But don't I have to wait till I've finished the book?' and they both said, 'No, go ahead, deals are done on less every day.' But I had a strong feeling that, while this may be the case in Ireland, it probably isn't in the US. What you're saying confirms that.

Dang...

Others may differ, but I'd suggest you hang fire for a while, lest your enthusiasm gets the better of your judgement.

If you're confident that agents/publishers will be so impressed with your exquisite prose and highly marketable brilliant-story-well-told that they'll forgive its being incomplete, and be happy to wait breathlessly for its conclusion, you've nothing to lose by shortening the lengthy process of getting it onto the bookstands.

But if, on the other hand, you suspect it might not quite be the novel that redefines fiction as we know it, there are good arguments for finishing it first.

1) You owe it to yourself to give yourself the best chance of success, and until you've finished it you might not know how to begin it. It's a common experience among writers to find that when they've finished a book they need to re-write or at least re-shape the early chapters, to properly set up the story/plot and the characters.

2) It's never a good idea to show anyone that 'counts' an unfinished WIP. Anything less than perfection, in your own terms, does not show your talent to its best advantage, and as a beginner you're more likely to be judged on your text's actuality than your 'promise' as a writer. There's talent and promise aplenty in this highly-competitive marketplace, but relatively few publishable/sellable manuscripts. Publishing houses and agents have much scarcer resources these days for editing promising scripts, and are more inclined to choose texts that are virtually ready to print.

3) Most submissions require you to give a word count, and you're not yet in a position to do that. There's nothing to stop you winging it, of course, except perhaps integrity; but there's a good chance it would come and bite you on the a**.

4) Submitting when (admittedly) incomplete is likely to mark you as either a confident professional or an enthusiastic but ultimately hapless amateur. In either case, their reading your first page or two will confirm their suspicions one way or the other.

5) It's common practice - at various stages of progress but especially when you've finished - to put a work aside for a few weeks to 'mature'. On revisiting, many writers find themselves embarrassed (that's the mildest reaction I've experienced) by some of the stuff they've written in the name of art. The 'perfection' I spoke of in 2), or lack thereof, is most likely to show itself at this stage, and by giving yourself that little bit of extra time you will end up with a better result. Only the best finished product, according to your own standards and judgement, is good enough.

Why am I so black and white about this? Well, last year I finished my first novel, in that I'd written 'The end' and polished the whole thing, and submitted (three chapters by request in every case) to three agents. Only after three rejections, and gradually absorbing a better understanding of the critical structural aspects of the novel form (helped enormously by the good citizens of this board, to whom muchas grazias) did I realise that I had jumped the gun by several months.

Did I lose anything by submitting too early? Well, I've possibly burnt my bridges with three agents, the ones I most wanted to score, and there are a limited number of them here in Oz. But what I've lost most is a certain amount of self-respect, for letting a vain desire to impress override the mature reflection I'd prefer to think marks my character.

P.S. You might also want to consider getting feedback from some suitably qualified beta readers before you submit.

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Added to reflect your later post....

You should've said you'd already had qualified opinion! What I've said above remains generally true, but if your friends are being honest rather than friends you're in great shape. Go for it!

that sounds like pretty good advice to me. you might be able to sell stories like that when you're established and can be counted on, but i think you'd have to be extremely talented *and* lucky for an editor to cut you an advance for a novice novelist when the book's not even complete. call me crazy, but that sounds like bad business. (of course, they'd only pay once the book was done, come to think of it.)

i've heard where a novice could sell a ms based on an idea and a few chapters. it always sounded more like urban legend than anything else, but, hey, i'm probably wrong on that. common sense dictates you finish it first, eh? maybe agents are a little more lenient in this area, but, still, what agent will sign you on without a whole book to sell?

are there not just tons of legitimate literary agents to deal with? i think most of us have an idea of who we'd like to deal with, but if one turns you down today, that doesn't mean they'll turn you down next year. isn't it a case where actual agents change agencies every now and then? i figure its attrition and turnover rate isn't as bad as other careers, but it has to happen, too. i would hardly give up all hope: there are going to be new agents because the exact and precise requirements to be a literary agent is you can breathe. there's no test to take, no license to get, no set of ethics you're obligated to swear an oath to (even doctors aren't legally obligated to take the hypocratic oath, though, so...); you say you're an agent, print up some cards, and boom, you're a literary agent. if you're a good one or not is another story.

i wholly endorse finishing your book first before even getting an agent. they want to know you're capable of completing a book, which is only fair. and just because they say no to your book doesn't always mean they're saying no to you, per se, just that book. if they say no, is that burning a bridge?

let me ask those who have sold, is it harder finding an agent than finding a publisher?

because the exact and precise requirements to be a literary agent is you can breathe. there's no test to take, no license to get, no set of ethics you're obligated to swear an oath to (even doctors aren't legally obligated to take the hypocratic oath, though, so...); you say you're an agent, print up some cards, and boom, you're a literary agent.

Click to expand...

YIKES--let's hope people don't believe this. Yes, this is what scam artists do or those who are bad agents. If this were true we'd all just print up some cards and wham we'd be our own agents.

Do I personally know the ins and outs of pitching a ms (agent style) NO WAY. DO I know some NY editors at the big houses, a few, but could I cal them and say hey I've got this great ms and they'd say sure send it over? NO WAY.

Agents do go to school, the better ones belong to the AAR, the better ones have apprenticed or worked in the publishing industry with another agent for years before they set out on their own, usually taking some of their former employers clients with them to their new agency. Being an agent is not just a matter of sending out a few queries with the word Agent behind their name, we could all do that on our own--just send ms by mail.

Good agents walk the walk and talk the talk, they know who to call, they know what editors at what houses buy what and will like what they have. They can e-mail, call, see face to face and bug any editor they know, repeatedly--you do that as an unknown author (or even a known one, I suspect) and all you will do is irritate the editor or publisher and black list yourself.

A good agent has to have a good track record of offering editors fantastic books. Someone who just says hey i wanna be an agent, I can send out ms, is not going to get anywhere--and you don't want them as your agent either.

See this site for more info about the AAR-- Association of Author's Representatives

Shawn

Most places in the UK will accept submissions of three chapters and a synopsis. Check your 'Writers' Market' to see what they're asking for.

Good luck.
aq

eclectic wench,

Ask your two editor friends who are interested in your ms to recommend an agent.

A recommendation from an interested editor will get you an agent quicker than anything else.

On the other hand once you get an agent your play time will be over. You will be expected to act like a professional. That means steady, dependable output. An agent does not want excuses: they want output they can sell.


SRHowen,

YIKES--let's hope people don't believe this. Yes, this is what scam artists do or those who are bad agents. If this were true we'd all just print up some cards and wham we'd be our own agents.

Click to expand...

A) You can believe it, it is true. No legal definition exists for who can or cannot call themselves a literary agent, nor a black belt in karate, nor a financial consultant, in some places anyone can claim to be a hypnotherapist able to cure you of all your mental ills...and the same is true for several other professions. Part of the reason is that some of the best people in these fields do not have what are traditionally called qualifications -- College degrees in that specific field. Think about it, some high school drop out daughter of a publisher who knows every editor in town by name and loves books might be the dream agent of a life time.

B) Yes, scam artists do take advantage of this. It is why you must be careful. Beware of unlicensed hypnotherapists who claim to be literary agents.

C) People have posed as their own agents, at least one writer I read about did so successfully. People have started out with one good client and wound up legitimate agents who can be counted on. This is why editors tend to deal strictly with agents who are known to them. Writers have turned agent. Editors have turned agent. I read about a woman who learned enough about the business to become a legit agent while trying to peddle her husbands work.

D) While the budding author needs to be aware there are inept and bogus agents out there, most of them do want to do a good job and will try to the best of their ability. Even a good one might not be right for you if your personalities clash too much.

Do NOT begin an agent search before your book is finished.

I can speak with some experience, having already had a screenplay agent, and having now just signed with an agent for my mystery novels.

I've also been published moderately, with articles, reviews, and some short stories.

I know whereof I speak.

It's a waste of time for you and the agent, and waste of money, to begin an agent search before your book is complete. End of statement.

Why? Because you do NOT want to blow any chance to find representation. It's difficult enough.

What happens, for example, if you query a few good, legit agents, and they ask for sample chapters. Next, 3 weeks later, you get a reply from a top agency "Send the manuscript. We're very interested!"

What do you do? Punt? Forget it. You've blown it. Because this top agent has taken time to read and evaluate your sample chapters, and has decided to take a chance. And now you're not ready. Doomed.

You should focus instead on totally, completely, absolutely FINISHING the novel!

Whew! Lotsa work! And now you can begin the hunt for the agent.

Kind of a note:

While no legal definition exists for who cannot or cannot call themselves a literary agent, the definition of fraud is pretty clearly stated.

Anyone who accepts money to perform a service must attempt to do what they claim they are going to do. Which is why reputation and contracts are so important.

A criminal will take your money and do nothing. They will probably go to jail eventually. A shady operator will accept your money and then, following the terms of the contract, do exactly what you could do -- Send your MS out to twenty or thirty slush piles where they chances are they will be ignored.

why do people always focus on the exceptions and not the rule?

I have no idea.

Also--check out the AAR, if you choose an agent who belongs they have agreed to a cannon of ethics.

Shawn

Generally speaking, in America, at least, there is no school, no legal requirements, no anything to make one an agent. You become a writer by writing, you become an agent by declaring yourself an agent.

There are a ton of agents out there, but there aren't all that many who can do a writer any good. The submissions of a great many agents are treated just like slush at many of the major publishing houses.

I'm badly out of date on numbers, so take this with a grain of salt, and hope someone more up to date can correct the numbers. Anyway, it used to be said that at any given there were 1,500 honest agents out there, but only 150 who could actually sell a novel to a major publisher on a regular basis, and only 25 who were in the top group publishers always paid serious attention to.

How many good agents there are for an individual writer also depends on the genre. There are more selling agents for romance novels and mystery novels than for any other genre, simply because together these genres make up about 75% of all fiction sales, so more novels and more agents are needed.

Depending on genre, there may be only 10-50 agents all told who can do a given writer much good. Not all agents can or do handle all genres.

To a publisher, a good agent is one who consistently submits well-written, publishable manuscripts that can earn the publisher money. A bad agent is one that consistently submits poorly-written, unpublishable manuscripts, and there are many, many agents who fall into this category. A writer who has an agent like this is really no better off than a writer without an agent, and sometimes worse off.

Too many writers think it's all about having an honest agent, but there are a great many honest agents who simply can't tell a well-written, publishable manuscript from a poorly-written, unpublishable manuscript. Submissions from these agents are treated just like slush.

Not all agents can get a manuscript to an editor's desk, and some agents have such a bad reputation for delivering poor quality manuscripts that what they submit may not even be read.

It isn't enough to have an honest agent, or an agent that belongs to AAR, you have to have an agent who knows a good manuscript from a bad one, and who has the faith of editors for consistently delivering good manuscripts.

As for when to submit something to ana agent, it's always best to wait until you have a completed, polished, manuscript. Until you finish a novel, there's no guarantee you can finish a novel, and certainly no guarantee of a timetable.

There's no advantage to submitting before something is finished and polish, and many advantages to waiting.

Having said this, I have a friend who landed a top agent with only three chapters and an outline written, but he's a writer with some top sales to the best magazines in the country.

I, too, got an agent before writing my first novel, but it was a dumb move, and because I submitted something too early I had to write that first novel in under a month. It all worked out, the novel sold quickly, but it still wasn't a smart move.

Patience really is a virtue, and the advantages of waiting far outweigh any disadvantages. I can't even think of a single disadvantage to waiting, but I think think of many pitfalls in submitting before something is finished and polished.

Deals done on partials almost always belong to established writers, not to first time novelists who have yet to prove they can even finish a novel, or that the finished novel will be as good as the sample chapters.

That's where track record comes in--how else does a writer tell if an agent is one publishers buy from? I have no idea what a good track record number should be--depends on number of clients I guess.

I also sent out a ms before it was ready--it was finished but i thought heck it always takes forever to get anyone to ask to read the entire thing so I have plenty of time to edit.

I sent out 5 queries to agents and got 1 rejection and 4 requests for the full ms.

Needless to say I didn't land an agent that time around.

Do your research. Check out sales made by that agent. How releases did they have last year. (my agent lists those on his site) Do they belong to the AAR, do they have a recent track record? And once they start sending out--do you get the actual correspondence from the publisher? (I may be the only one who sees this as important but to me it says yes they are actually sending out my ms)

Research is the key. And a finished polished ms (for first novels)

Shawn

You'll hear different numbers, but I tink a worthwhile agent/agency is selling a minimum of fifty novels per year. If the footprint the agent leaves is smaller than this, there could be a troubling reason behind it.

fslak

'Beware of unlicensed hypnotherapists who claim to be literary agents.' now that was funny.

Re: fslak

Thank all of you so much - that confirms my suspicions! I think I'm just getting very impatient - at my current rate, it'll probably take me another nine months to a year to finish the thing, and it feels like I've been writing it for at least five bazillion years already - and it's good to be reminded that I shouldn't give in to this.

Yep, I've had good opinions from a few qualified beta readers - I'm showing it to people whose opinions I trust, and taking their advice. Both the editors independently recommended the same agent, a very good UK one (they don't know the US publishing world too well). So when it comes to the UK, at least, I know where to start...and now, thanks to you, I know when!

Re: fslak

"because the exact and precise requirements to be a literary agent is you can breathe. there's no test to take, no license to get, no set of ethics you're obligated to swear an oath to (even doctors aren't legally obligated to take the hypocratic oath, though, so...); you say you're an agent, print up some cards, and boom, you're a literary agent."

In the state of California, you must have a license to be any kind of talent agent, including a literary agent. To get said licenses you must have met certain requirements.

Other US states typically don't have these requirements, true.

Black belts

Generally, it takes from 3 to 7 years to get a black belt in any reputable school. It's true ayone can buy a black belt from any martial arts supply store (or ebay for that matter), but that doent make them a "black belt."

Although tat does explain why thefirst questio people often ask when tey find out that you're a martal artist is "rank and style?"

(I apologiz for my keyboard. I think it's dying.)

What kin of education des an agent need? Is there sch a thing as agent school? Or an agentng major?

Re: Black belts

Ah, in New York state, you must also have a license to be an agent. If an agent doesn't have a license, then there is no reason for you to deal with them. That will help eliminate a lot of scamsters.