How long are your outlines?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ivonia

I know, some people use them, others don't.

However, I find that they're quite useful, especially when you're stuck on a scene, and you can sort of force yourself to see what happens.

For me, I tend to see "the Big Picture", imagining scenes and events here and there, and then trying to fit all the pieces of the puzzle together (I heard someone say that's a right brain person, any clues to that? I am left handed if that means anything). For one of my stories that I really wanted to write, I got the beginning and the end early on, and parts of the middle later, but I never had a cohesiveness for the middle, so that Point A led to Point B consistently (and more importantly, that it made sense. If a guy in my story is an experienced fighter, I want to show how he learned to fight so well, not just suddenly have him bust out two guns and take everyone out and then walk away like nothing happened).

Anyway, I was really stuck on a scene, so I decided instead of just not writing (again), I would outline the story. I ended up with about 11 pages of outlines just from the ideas I had already, combined with some new ideas in an attempt to make the story feel more natural. I figured out a solution to my problem using this method :D

And the other benefit to the outline is that I can add or take things away as needed, and if I'm ever truly stuck again, or need a more fleshed out subplot, I can check with my outline again and make changes as needed. Granted, it does take a while to make one, but wow, those "road maps" are nice (it took me about a couple of hours to write that 11 pgs, but I was really motivated once I got past that "trouble point").

So, do you guys use outlines? Why or why not?
 

zerohour21

Not usually, no. I don't write out outlines but I have an outline (or idea, or whatever you want to call it) in my head for what I want to happen in my stories and before I write it down I usually know which direction I want to take it. Plus this way it is easier to implement changes to my ideas when they are inside my head. And I've never had a huge problem with just suddenly completely forgetting what I was going to do with a story either.

One time I did use an outline for an interactive story I was writing late 2002, but given the nature of that story, and how there were going to be multiple endings and several different directions to take the character depending on how the reader wishes to go, then an outline felt necessary for that case (or at least some kind of road map for all the different directions) so that I could keep things straight a little bit, as well as determine just how much crap I'm going to have to put into this thing and to keep track fo what I have done and what I still need to do. All of my other stories are completely linear, so I just keep on writing until I reach the end, whereas my Interactive story had many different directions, so I needed to have some means of which directions I've covered, so that I didn't forget to cover any of the options before deciding that I was done with it.
 

preyer

i tried one of those interactive stories once and it was a disaster, lol. those are really hard to write, i think.

i usually don't outline, either. i do have page after page of notes of varying length just so i don't forget something i thought was a good idea, even if it's a single line of dialogue i've yet to attribute to a character.

my current project i started an outline just because it's so large (planned on a four book series with one character set in modern times and her ancestor five hundred years ago, both stories going on at the same time, which is just about impossible to outline and manage to weave together into a cohesive crap fest as it is). but, i started to outline just the one character's story and ran into a wall real fast and have been stuck there ever since, which is really pissing me off because i *never* have problems getting stuck for more than a few hours on how to advance the story. i wasn't having any problems *until* i outlined! but, no, i thought i'd try something different for a change, lol.

so, i think i'll retro-engineer the thing back to where i'm dammed and hope for the best.

generally, i write random scenes as they excite me no matter where they are in the story. then i put them into the computer and arrange them in the order i think they should go in then consider how to connect those sections. for me that's where the real challenge of actual storytelling is, in making those 'leaps' as 'good' as the parts that were fun to write.

i can't say i advocate this method of chaos, but if i don't keep my options open as i'm writing i get bored easily with it.
 

Jules Hall

I sometimes outline and sometimes don't. When I do, they're usually pretty short.

As an example, I started my NaNo novel without one, but by the time I'd written 20k words on it, I had a good grasp of where it was going but needed to work out a few issues, so I wrote about half a page on what was going to happen in the rest of the book, which was enough to show me what I needed to do, work out what my theme was, and get me moving on the rest of it.

Of that half page, I've discarded quite a bit, having come up with a better way of arranging for one of my character's secrets to come out.
 

preyer

sometimes i'll throw in random details in the beginning just to give myself a puzzle to figure out as i'm writing, which pretty much negates the need for an outline. if i'm listening to music as i'm writing and a song like led zep's 'immigrant song' comes on at the right moment, i get all testoneroni and go off on a tangent, the aftermath ultimately changing the texture of the story.

i also don't do character profiles beforehand. i don't write ten-page histories of them that won't be in the story. why people feel the need to do this baffles me, as nine out of ten times those characters are just as plain and boring as ones created on the fly. some people have questionaires they fill out for their character, answering questions like 'when did you lose your virginity?' who cares if it's got nothing to do with the story? so you know your character better? well, good gravy, wavy, how much do you *need* to know about them to make them good? how much does her going to a community college for two years play into whether or not she's going to pull the trigger? i start off with a basic concept and that character grows or regresses as the situation warrants. if i sat down and decided her favourite colour was green, invariably somewhere in the story i'd have to change that to blue, then i'd have to change other things, and eventually i'll wind-up with the same concept just with different details, making all those notes obsolete, so i don't waste my time with 'em. that's just me, though. besides, i've never written a character that wasn't some facet of me at the core, so what's to really know beyond that?

but i rant....
 

Man with twohanded sword

I work from a really detailed outline, using MS Word's outline view!
Why? It's easier, esp. for sweeping Military SF&F where there are lots of pieces on the board. Also, I don't have a lot of time for writing, so I need to make every hour count.
 

Pthom

I begin my stories without an outline ... usually. Like Jules, I find, after awhile, that I need to work out problems, conflicts, continuity, etc. What I come up with as an outline varies. For my WIP, a SF epic, I needed a way to keep track of times, dates, places, technology, people (there are lots of people), and so forth. The tool I find most useful in that regard is an Excel spreadsheet. There I can not only list everything, but perform time/date calculations, work out scientific and technological problems and (when my anal retentive gene kicks in) keep track of word count. I can put links in the spreadsheet to chapters, to my character biographies, and even useful websites. I find it's a pretty flexible way of doing things as I can change the things I need to globally, using almost the same commands in Word as in Excel.
 

Writing Again

So far I've never done the same thing twice. Each novel is different, each starts at a different place, each has different problems to solve.

I don't know what I'm going to do next. I just do what ever is needed or I think might work at the time.
 

Gala

Good question, and the answer depends on the length and complexity of the work, and of course the memory capability of the novelist. I just betcha Rowling has some outlines going. ;)

I mostly outline as I go. I cannot keep 120,000-word novel in my head without mile markers. When I print for editing and proofing, an outline becomes a checklist and TOC.

I've come to rely on Word's Outline feature. I give scenes titles as I go, using Heading 1. Along the way I may realize there's a scene I need to add or insert later. I don't stop what I'm doing to write it--I typed it in with a Heading 1. This essentially making a note.

I recently wrote a 50k novel in twenty days. At that fast clip, a bit of pre-outline on a legal pad was invaluable. I didn't use every idea, but a few came in handy.

I too write scenes and chapters out of order. God knows I've tried writing from beginning to end. My mind doesn't work linearly in writing fiction (though it's like a watch in non-fiction). In fiction I think more in storyboard, brainstorming fashion, if you will. I have to know the ending, or at least act three, before act two comes to me.

For me, and outline is a list I can study to see what I've got. With Word's outline feature, I can expand and collapse the various scenes in my big doc as I'm working along. I can promote and demote them w/o using copy and paste; a few clicks does it. I can generate a TOC, i.e. printed outline.

Ken Follett is big on writing to pre-outline and synopsis. Some of his books sure read that way. For more see the book by his publisher (or maybe it's his editor) Al Zuckerman.

Non-fiction: I can whip out an outline off the top of my head and fill in the blanks. No worries.

Fiction: I have to listen to what my chars are telling me to put on the page. Outline is only a tool to keep track of a large manuscript.
 

maestrowork

I keep milestones, set pieces and general directions, but I don't keep detailed outlines. I keep a lot of stuff in my head (I know, dangerous!) I do try to plot/think out a few chapters ahead so I'm not completely lost. But when I write I try to see where my characters and situations take me.
 

ChunkyC

I'm like Gala and Maestro in that I start with a few signposts to write toward. I keep a separate outline file and write a short summary of each scene as I finish it. By the time the first draft is done, I'll have a complete outline as well that I can refer to in the rewrite phase. It's the computer equivalent of index cards.

PS - the original question was 'how long are your outlines'. Mine tend to end up about five percent of the length of the actual story.
 

maestrowork

Oh, the question! My answer is: after I'm done with my draft, my outline is usually about 1-3 pages long. They translate quite well into a synopsis.
 

ybest

I have an outline for my book- but only bullets the last six or so chapters. I don't really work from it though- it's just a motivational thing. I look at it, notice all the major events that must happen before my story ends and I can see the end of the rainbow. I guess if I did the math, a outline of the whole book I'm working on would be about the length of one chapter.

- Yoli
 

tjosban

I have really just started writing again so I don't know how much my opinion matters, regardless of how much I love it.

For a novel, I started, I wrote a paragraph summarizing what happens, basically a little blurb about it. I planned a series for the main character so I did this for the first 6 novels. Then for the one I was working on, I wrote out just 10 key points to keep me on track, and the rest was supposed to come as it comes. Then, I realized that I do not have the experience necessary to make this series be what it keeps screaming at me that it is, so I shelved it.

Now I have started another novel, and I have found it helpful, for perspective, to write a paragraph about each character, the world I am creating, and other important aspects of the novel. I haven't decided if I will outline or not because my characters keep changing their minds about how they fit in the story, so I am just going with it for now.

I guess my answer is that I do sometimes do outlines, but I keep them very short. This prevents me from the zealous overplanning that I so often subject myself and my dear husband to.
 

Euan Harvey

I changed the way I was outlining for the novel I wrote (am still writing actually) during Nano. For each scene I wrote a couple of long paragraphs -- came to about 150-200 words for each scene. In the paragraphs I included bits of dialogue, descriptions and so on. It worked pretty well, basically the outline became a kind of very rough draft.

Next book I write, I'm going to treat the outline as the first draft, and write around a page for each scene, including everything I want to get in there, so in terms of length, I guess it will end up being around 1/3 the length of the book.
 

novelator

No outlines, no plotting for me, just fingers to the keyboard and off I go.

Mari
 

katdad

I'm about average as far as outlining goes. I begin my novel with an essential few paragraphs or sentences that describe the overall story.

Then I jot down some prelim notes -- basic plot outlines but not detailed. Sort of like storyboarding a screenplay.

Next I start writing. I write fast and rough, save everything in my document files, and then later I go back and trim up some things.

Since I'm writing mystery novels, plot specifics have to fit (clues discovered, etc.). So I use a big desk-size calendar to put my chapters into a timeline:

June 2 Mon:
9am Ch 1 - Meet Jim in jail
10 am Ch 2 - Talk w. homicide
1pm Ch 3 - Meet lawyer at lunch
etc.

This serves as my master-plan outline. I use pencil and move, delete, insert chapters as needed until I have a fairly good sequence, at least enough to work with.

I then write a 1-2 sentence description of each chapter, expanding on my calendar schedule. This is put into an Excel spreadsheet so I can move stuff around easily.

I also use a spreadsheet for character names, bios, and when the character first appears.

I use these as my references when I write. So I don't really use a classic "outline" so much as I have several reference documents that help me structure my story and keep on track.

Naturally this is all fluid and subject to alteration.
 

cwfgal

I didn't outline for many years but once I started selling novels, I found I was able to do so based on an outline alone. That's a great incentive. The first few times I had to create an outline I hated the whole process and thought it would rob my writing of spontaneity and creativity. It didn't. And I found that having that outline came in handy in the course of writing the book since I could refer to it whenever I got stuck or was unsure of where to go.

Now I outline everything in some form or another. The outlines I used to sell books were typically very detailed and around 10 - 12 pages long. An outline I'm creating just for myself may only be 2- 4 pages long and less detailed. No outline is ironclad; it is merely a suggested plan. I am free to deviate from the original plan if I so desire and almost always do.

Beth
 

James D Macdonald

My outlines are about 3/4 the length of the finished novel.
 

Writing Again

I just realized. My whole approach to writing has been changing lately. Not sure what direction it is going in, but it has nothing to do with what I have ever done before.
 

STORMTURNER

I definitely outline because ideas come to me all the time. By outlining, I can process whether or not scenes and plot points may or may not work. I dreamed of half a chapter a few nights ago and added it to the outline. Once I saw it on paper, either I didn't remember it well enough for it to be as good as the dream, or it just didn't read well.

My process is:

Idea - develop
Plot Points
Character Backstory/Descriptions
Scene Catagory/Outline

Often times, during the course of writing, this process repeats.
 

SRHowen

I don't outline.

Sigh, if I do the story is gone and I hit the brick wall.

Shawn
 

Writing Again

I treat a story pretty much like a puzzle. I never know which part I am going to look at next. When I have enough pieces I start putting it together.

Somewhere in this mess eventually appears what amounts to an outline, synopsis, or treatment.

When that happens it usually means I'm ready to write.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.