Use of people's memoirs in fiction

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Fresie

Hi people,

oh, I think I really need help with this one.

The situation is: I'm working on a historical (World War II) novel. Naturally, I've done a lot of research and studied tons of eyewitnesses' accounts. The thing is, one of the survivors' accounts, a short scene, managed to work its way into my book. The person's narration -- how she had to bury her relative at a war-time cemetery -- had impressed me so much that later, when I started writing a scene based on it (I needed this scene in the book, it was part of the original plot), I discovered I was using the entire account -- naturally, omitting the names and the cemetery's name (the city's the same, though). I used all their actions -- what they did and in which order -- and some major points of their dialogue.

Needless to say, I'm feeling very guilty at the moment, but the scene turned out so emotionally charged I can see it's an important part of the future novel now and if I take it out or even change certain things in it, the book will suffer.

What do I do? The original account was taken from a non-fiction book published in a different language in another country (but the book is quite well-known there). It's somebody's personal memory, and here I am, writing it up as fiction. The first thought would be to change certain bits in it, but no matter how much you change it, the original account is so unique it'll be immediately recognised by anyone who's read the book.

Thanks a lot!

Fresie
 

KLH

I'd be very, very careful. That said...

Take the scene down to its bare bones. A character buries a relative in a war-time cemetary. That's something that people have been doing the world over for millenia, really. Right there, you don't have anything that's personal.

The second question I'd have to ask is how much the character's reaction is based on the original story. By that I mean, did you end up writing the character as it evolved solely based on knowing how the character would act in this one scene? Because if not, it's possible the character would think/feel/see things that the original person did not.

I would definitely go through the dialogue and wipe any of that, rephrase, drop, add, whatever's necessary. The actions, though, if they're pretty standard...well, I guess I'd see that as exempt. I've been to enough funerals, and there is a set pattern of behavior. If this is a graveyard for soldiers, why not call somewhere and ask? I don't know if you're in the U.S., but Arlington Cemetary (the US's national cemetary for fallen soldiers) has a very set pattern of its funerals, and I bet they'd have no problem clarifying the process of a funeral - where the family gathers, what the widow/er and/or children do, who stands where, what's done when. If it's similar to the original text you read, then it's not like you're writing something that's so far out there that someone would say, "Oh, that's exactly what I went through and there's no way it could be anyone else's story."

But the dialogue is definitely an issue, I think; the rest could probably stay where it is. More likely - if you write it well, and it's a pivotal point - you may end up with readers all saying you might have been standing at their shoulder while they went through that experience. Some things - like the process of grieving - are both highly individual and yet remarkably universal at the same time. I'd wipe the dialogue, rephrase, and add segues, whatever's needed to make it your own.

Good luck, hope this helped some.
 

SimonSays

It's one thing to be inspired by someone else's work.

It's one thing to subconciously 'borrow' something you forgot you saw elsewhere.

It's another thing to outright steal.

Be INSPIRED by the memoir - and create your own moment. An equally emotional and powerful moment, but a moment that is your own.

Flip it around - how would you feel if someone read your novel and put YOUR work in their piece?
 

wwwatcher

How about doing more research, reading more memoirs. A lot of people have been buried in wartime cemeteries. If the story really hinges on this and your gut tells you to continue writing, then more research may give you just as good a scene using pieces of different peoples stories. Isn't this how most fictionwriters use research? We make choices everyday.
 

preyer

this is a really good question, one with implications that goes pretty far beyond the original problem.

legally, assuming it's got an international copyright (you know it's int'l because there's a circle around the 'c'), i'm not sure where you stand. copyright laws concerning how much you can borrow from other works are pretty shady beasts. one court case has it three lines is stealing, another says up to 25% of the story is okay (just making up those numbers as my copy of 'copyright laws' is on loan, but the variance is pretty extreme). so, from a legal standpoint, that's something you'd have to check into, and once you do you'll most likely find your footing is pretty slippery if you decide to use a good chunk of someone else's story.

of course, you could always contact the publisher and author for permission. other than that, i think the aforementioned advice is pretty solid: strip it down to its generic basics and rebuild.

still, there's a moral conflict there. most likely you could reword the section enough to set your version barely far enough apart from the real account to where, even if, by some wild coincidence, someone did recognize similarities there's not going to be a major legal recourse, especially one from overseas. assuming you're as poor as me, what are they going to do, take away your birthday? so, from that standpoint you'd probably be okay.

the moral part for me arrives when i have someone reading the book and they're moved by something i didn't create from my imagination. i'd feel as if i'm somehow conning them, that the best of the book was plagairized and i was a talentless sham of a hack of a wannabe. and now you've got a secret you can never let known.

to take it a step further (farther? damnit, i never get those straight without looking them up), it brings into question the very nature of 'creativity' itself. what really do any of us do that's truly creative? what setting hasn't been done? what characters haven't been written? what plot hasn't been done? the great chances are that what we're writing isn't as creative as we think, only creative to us by virtue of ignorance. for example, is there anyone here who hasn't written a story and thought it was tight just to be watching some awful movie on t.v. and half your book is right there? 'well, *i'm* creative. *my* main character is an eight-legged monkey that shoots radioactive peanuts out of his ears.' that's not creative, that's just stupid. modern creativity largely rests in putting spins on tried-and-true things.

and people who have 'original' characters might someday be in for a shock. generally, good characters follow a plausible psychology if they're sane. you, as an individual, are predictable. so am i. so is everyone. just when you think you're special, someone comes along and nails your entire profile down to a tee and you realize you fall into a category. how you get to be the way you and your character are is one thing, but once there, we're all about as original as white bread. sorry if i'm bursting any 'you can't put a label on me!' people: you're right, *i* can't, but other people can and so accurately nail it that it's frightening. disheartening, too, but so it goes.

i say that to use as an example of how it's been done, whatever it is you want to do. maybe in pieces here and there, but rest assured you're probably not creating something as original as you think you are, it's just seemingly original to you. personally, once i got over the shock of being so pegged, i found it very liberating. then i could get on with the business of trying to write an entertaining story and not worry about, 'oh, my gawd, my story isn't the most original thing in the world!'

now, i'll bet most writers are people watchers by nature. as for me, i'll make a mental note of something unusual as someone goes by and maybe someday use that detail for a character description. is that original? how? i didn't manufacture the detail from nothing in the factory of my mind, i basically stole it from a real person. the only 'originality' sits in the fact that i used that detail as a layer, one of many i might have borrowed from a lot of sources. 'creativity', then, could be equalled to combining established ingredients and hoping you don't end up with rock stew. (a book is no more creative just because the writer doesn't know it exists elsewhere, eh?)

and if someone tells you an interesting story you think would fit perfectly in your book, are you not going to use it? what if the story had to do with a buddy of the person telling the story? then it's *really* managable, eh? no real qualm pounding that to fit your framework, is there? so, really, the main moral qualm here is using an oral story as opposed to a written one. is there much of a philosophical difference between using an oral, written, sung, danced, or something you 'read' in a tree's bark pattern? i'll bet anything that that real life account has been repeated a million times throughout history, just the details have changed.
 

mr mistook

Learn the age-old, time-honored art of the rip-off! we've all been ripped. We all rip. However, have some special respect for a memoir, of all things. If it touched you, your only solid ground for launching a plot is with your own personal impressions of said memoir.

Those personal impressions *must* have some relevance to your own life. Step back from the memoir and focus on the issues that attract you to it. Rework the plot to cog on your own machinery.
 

Fresie

Oh great guys, thank you so much. Your posts in fact echo my own thoughts so naturally, I'll work tonight on my own scene. That was an excellent lesson. Thanks a lot!!!!

And can I start saying merry Christmas? (I just can't wait!)

Cheers people,

fresie
 

Writing Again

I discovered I was using the entire account -- naturally, omitting the names and the cemetery's name (the city's the same, though). I used all their actions -- what they did and in which order -- and some major points of their dialog.

You are a writer. Your job is to write. One of the best ways for a writer to solve a writing problem is to write.

First realize you can write this scene better than the original.

Then decide you will write this scene as many times as it takes to get it right. Try different ways of writing the scene. Emphasize different things.

Then refuse to quit until you know you have something better than what you started with.
 

Jules Hall

On a tangent:

legally, assuming it's got an international copyright (you know it's int'l because there's a circle around the 'c'), i'm not sure where you stand

This doesn't sound right to me. I've certainly never heard that the circle around the copyright symbol ( © ) indicates international copyright. In fact, these days, all copyright is automatically international, I believe. Most countries don't require registration at all; the US only requires registration for works written by a US author (or is it works with first publication in the US?), and even then only in some circumstances.
 

Fresie

Anyway! Thanks everyone! The problem's solved!

The thing is, having written that scene a couple of days ago, I got unexpectedly blocked -- not just on that particular story line, but on the entire novel at all, couldn't write another word of it. And I already know that I only get "blocked" if I try to force the story in the wrong direction. So I got rid of the cemetery and... let the dead relative live on. And sure enough, the book came back to life immediately. It had been a wrong plot turn, after all.

So thanks again, that was really a valuable lesson. :smokin
 

Jamesaritchie

There is no "international copyright," though there is an international copyright treaty. A "C" with a circle around it is simply the standard copyright symbol all countries use, but it's used for national copyrights, not international ones. Your book receives the copyright of the country it's published in.

No matter where you live, your country uses the same c with a circle around it just so anyone who reads the material will know it's under copyright. A "C" without the circle around it means nothing.

Sometimes, however, some publishers simply spell out the word "Copyright." It means exactly the same thing, and is the exact same copyright.

Fiction and nonfiction are very different, and copying words from one nonfiction book to another is fine IF you set off the words and give credit. And if what you use is not a substantial part of the other nonfiction book. But you MUST set the words aside in some manner, and you MUST give credit.
 

preyer

you sure about the copyright thing? seems to me when i published my book (admittedly several years ago), that fact stuck in my head for some reason while filing copyright paperwork. simply, if you don't register your copyright, you're going to have a hard time proving plagairism.
 

maestrowork

I believe all PUBLISHED work (at least traditionally published in the US) has to be registered with the copyright office. No?
 

KLH

My understanding of copyright is that your copyright stands the moment you create the work. Registration is important for defending your copyright. I'm mostly familiar with issues of artwork in copyright, but I seem to recall the guidelines are roughly the same for written work. If you don't register, and find someone has plaigerized, you can still sue for damages, but the amount of money you can demand is limited. You have sixty days (or maybe ninety, something like that) to register your copyright after discovering the plaigerism, prove your ownership, and then the amount of damages you can claim jumps considerably.

Obviously, checking with a lawyer who specializes in such matters would be preferable if it's an issue - such as discovering someone has plaigerized - but in general I think I'm pretty close to the mark. If I'm not, set me straight...my brain is a little broken after revising and proofing over twenty thousand words in one day. Gyah.
 

Jules Hall

I believe all PUBLISHED work (at least traditionally published in the US) has to be registered with the copyright office. No?


"Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work."

www.copyright.gov/help/fa...l#register

Another page ( www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr ) gives more details, which in summary are, you don't have to register unless and until you actually sue someone for infringement, but if you wait longer than 3 months after publication you may lose entitlement to "statutory damages and attorney's fees". My understanding is that statutory damages are usually much higher than actual damages, which is what you'd still be entitled to.
 

maestrowork

Thanks! I guess that's the reason the publisher will need the copyright registered, in case of dispute. There are more chances for plagiarism and dispute once the book is published.
 

Jamesaritchie

Registration just isn't someting to worry about unless you're self-publishing the book. All legitimate publishers register the work for you as part of the publishing process.
 

preyer

if you self-publish, though, obviously registering your book is something you have to do. also, i think it's the only way to get into the library of congress. hm, i could be wrong on that. i believe it's assumed you're in the registering process when they dole out ISBN's.
 

Writing Again

My understanding is that the copyright is automatic when you write it.

The copyright notice you put on your ms shows your intent of keeping the copyright to yourself. It says, "I don't want people using my material."

If they notice does not appear then it might be assumed by the reader that you are putting the material into the public domain.

Copyright registering is usually done upon publication to further protect those rights.
 

preyer

technically, once you write something, it's copyrighted. at the same time, read ezboard's own term of usage, wherein it states *they* have first rights to anything you post on their boards. (i hope i'm remembering that right, lol.)

i'm not sure the assumption is if you don't have a copyright symbol on it it's public domain. your basis for a legal defense might be weakened, but i don't think that it would imply a broad and free use of it, either. especially in books, where there's always a warning not to copy by any means any portion of the book without written consent. i think i've even seen the very rare 'copyright pending', but maybe i'm imagining things this late at night.
 

Jamesaritchie

I've never heard of "copyright pending." You have and own copyright the moment something is written.

If you post something online, it's good to use the copyright symbol, though it isn't to show you're reserving copyright, it's just for those out there who know nothing about copyrught and somehow have the silly idea that anything without the symbol is fair game. Anyone who makes that assumption is going to be in a world of trouble.

But submitted material doesn't need the symbol, and shouldn't use it.

Part of the problem with registering a work is that once registered, you must place the copyright symbol and date of r on said work, or it won't stand up in court.
 

maestrowork

You do need a way to establish copyright though, once your work is published. Most publishers will take it out for you, but it's not automatic. The thing is, copyright expires, and when they do, your work becomes public domain. So if nothing else, there should be an established copyright date/year of your work.
 

preyer

doesn't copyright expire in like fifty years or something? and that's only if it's not renewed. for example, the wizard of oz isn't public domain, nor is 'the caissons keep rolling along,' that WWI song i referenced in another thread. those are still copyrighted long, long after even my 50 year stab-in-the-dark. i'd imagine you'd have to will your copyrighted material and those rights to use it to your heirs. or you can be like michael jackson and steal it in the form of publishing rights from friends named paul.
 

maestrowork

I think copyrights expire after 75 or 90 years, not 50?

Didn't Peter Pan just expire? I could be wrong...
 

mr mistook

It's 75 years for music, or pretty close to that. I don't know if it's the same for other types of intellectual property.
 
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