How did you deal with this situation?

I've been looked down my nose by other writers at cons. Really just one in particular, I see her every year, and she's a loudmouth, she also hogs the panels she's on. I hate being on panels with her, because she's a PITA. She doesn't really think you're an author if you're not with a big NY house. Fortunately the other authors at the con didn't feel the same way.

I have run across an Archebooks author once or twice. But no PA authors at the big cons. Small festivals once in a while.

Politeness doesn't cost.

I dread the day I come upon an enthusiastic new PA author. I suppose I'll just smile and say nothing, or offer vague congrats for finishing a book.

Unless they get snotty about their "published" status versus my unpublished status. Then the claws come out.

James D. Macdonald said:

Politeness doesn't cost.

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It's rudeness that kills ya.

I was at that same regional convention and would like to point out that I am NOT either writer mentioned in G's story. ;-)

I have sat on panels with vanity-pubbed authors (never a PA author as far as I'm aware) and I've kept my mouth shut about their choice of publisher. We've acknowledged here before that there are reasons to go that route, and it's just not nice to even think about opening my mouth to criticize without knowing why they made that decision. I might ask why, if that's in the scope of the panel, but I still wouldn't criticize. It's just rude. Besides, if I ask and keep my mouth shut I might learn something.

I wouldn't know. I'm not a published author (excluding the old PA fiasco,) so I don't have to worry about being invited to speak on a panel, or anywhere for that matter. I probably would have waited until she went to the washroom and the panel was over and then told the others not to feel bad, that PA is pulled the rug out from under her in public even though she deserved it.

Anyone have more positive ideas of how tackling deluded PA writers in public?

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Probably saying nothing would be best, unless someone specifically asks about PA or is passing along erroneous information to newbie writers. Saying something to an author who's still ecstatic about PA will likely be construed as jealousy and fear of PA authors taking over the industry (because everyone knows that well-known, long-standing authors at big houses are positively terrified of PA's "success" rate.)

ETA: In other words, your friend and the moderator probably handled it the best way possible.

"Where are you planning to submit your next book?"

Good luck.

Gillhoughly said:

Anyone have more positive ideas of how tackling deluded PA writers in public? In private?

Have you already done so?

What happened?

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A girl on a forum I post on was plugging her brother's book, which had been published by PA. I PMed her and said something along the lines of "There's some evidence that PublishAmerica doesn't report royalties honestly and is very difficult to work with. It might be in your brother's best interests to get out of his contract with them and find a different publisher. Here's some links, read them and make up your own mind."

And that seemed to go over well.

Actually, yes, I've encountered it. In our local area, there are several PA "pubbed" authors. Every time we attend a signing at our two local stores, they're invited. The thing is--one of them really IS a good writer. I bought one of his books as a niceness and he does terrifically rich and interesting regional mysteries set during WWII. But he's one of those that's happy with PA. He knows nothing about their bad reputation. He doesn't go to their boards, because he's older and doesn't go on the internet. The store gets his books without issue and he usually sells 15-20 copies every time we sign (versus our 3-4 copies). Mind you, he's lived in the area his whole life, is a church deacon and a former city councilman. He's got the "in" to sell books locally, and they really are good. Hard to argue with success.

I've held my tongue about PA, and just keep wishing him well. He likes his editor, is happy with the covers given him (which aren't too bad, really) and collects his royalty checks just like any other small press author. He doesn't want much more than what he has, and knows there isn't a national audience for his books, so there's really no point in bursting his bubble.

But in your case, the author believes she's more than she is. She believes the hype, and so (IMO) needs to be let down gracefully. Not in front of a crowd, but perhaps in the bar, or in an email after the event. What I've said before is:

"Y'know, you might want to consider having TWO publishers, just to protect yourself. Lots of the big authors do that. Here's some I've heard are really good."

Then provide a list. Hopefully, if she's bright, she'll figure out that the publisher she's looking at doesn't compare AT ALL to the ones you suggested, and she'll move all on her own. Or not. But in either event, you steered her right.

Cathy C said:

What I've said before is:

"Y'know, you might want to consider having TWO publishers, just to protect yourself. Lots of the big authors do that. Here's some I've heard are really good."

Then provide a list. Hopefully, if she's bright, she'll figure out that the publisher she's looking at doesn't compare AT ALL to the ones you suggested, and she'll move all on her own. Or not. But in either event, you steered her right.

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this should be on a business card we can all hand out...

what a great line!!!

Cathy C said:

Actually, yes, I've encountered it. In our local area, there are several PA "pubbed" authors. Every time we attend a signing at our two local stores, they're invited. The thing is--one of them really IS a good writer. I bought one of his books as a niceness and he does terrifically rich and interesting regional mysteries set during WWII.

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He might do better with a regional press that has the contacts to get his books regionally distributed.

And sometimes those niche regional books take off and turn into [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Blessing Way[/FONT] (Tony Hillerman's first Jim Chee book)

An easier way to deal with it is to say calmly that most PA authors have had problems with the company and have resorted to legal action--point them to these boards or tell them to google Preditors and Editors. Even give the names of agents or editors websites that state that a novel published with PA is not a recommendation.

Obviously, not in the rare air of a published author as of yet I should probably keep quiet about this, but I won't. I can only relate this to a situation where I was involved in a business meeting with what in essence is a know-it-all, which is what you describe here. The fact of the matter is that most know-it-alls don't know shit and can usually be quieted by hard facts. In this case I think your friend probably took the high road and it sounds like that may have been the best choice. When you're in a situation where you're speaking to a gathering from a panel it's not good to engage another panelist in front of the audience but a few well chosen comments about that person's qualifications might be justified at the end of the discussion. I know rambling bullshit. Sorry I'l try and do better...

Don Allen said:

When you're in a situation where you're speaking to a gathering from a panel it's not good to engage another panelist in front of the audience but a few well chosen comments about that person's qualifications might be justified at the end of the discussion.

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In that kind of situation, politely ask for the source of their facts. If they hedge, ask again.

DaveKuzminski said:

In that kind of situation, politely ask for the source of their facts. If they hedge, ask again.

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Nicely said...

Well, I ran into this situation. The author in question would hear nothing bad about PA. I politely pointed out that things had changed there since their book had been published, but it didn't even register. It was a sticky situation because the audience was mostly folks trying to get published. Sigh.

My mother-in-law *published* with PA, despite me running up three flights of stairs to gasp out, "Wait a second! They're a scam!" after seeing their number pop up on the caller ID on the television screen. After she threw some dishes at my husband and I, she went ahead with her *publisher* and inflicted her book on every member of the family that Christmas except for us.

And may I just say how jealous I am Gillhoughy? I LOVE Jacqueline Carey's books. So jealous...so jealous...

My only experience is in an organization that has nothing to do with writing. We often get newbies who think they know what's going on when it's clear they don't. Roaring them down in front of everyone never works, and taking them aside when the opportunity arises and explaining who we are and what we do usually produces better results. Some insist they are right, of course, but in any case we give people enough rope to hang themselves if they want. I stick to "They don't stay long if they don't belong," and although it can be disruptive until they catch on those who stick around make important contributions.

In your case sticking to the facts and continuing to do what works will be more convincing than anything else you can do. It sounds like it was handled pretty well.