Dejected

FloVoyager · Jun 4, 2007

I've been having trouble with my WIP, and I think I've finally figured out what it is. I've been reading up on how to write better, and now I'm second guessing myself, and my work, too much. Improving technique is great, but I need to focus on writing what I want to read, and not think about what someone else might want, or I won't get anything accomplished. I write much better when I write for myself, but if I keep on that way I may not get published--judging by the stack of rejections I've collected. Got another one today. Form, as usual. So I cringe every time I use an adverb, backspace when I start a sentence with "And" or "But," and worry ever time I see the wiggly green line under a sentence--MS Word's way of saying it's Passive Voice. I change it, hate it, and end up changing it back.

Somehow, I have to find the courage to toss the rule book out the window and just write, and not worry about whether or not it'll ever sell. But if I do, it may not. And I do want to get published. I'd like to be read by more than a few dozen souls, and my stories want a voice. So maybe I'd better master the rules after all. But... when I try to write with them in mind, I get bogged down and don't like what I produce. And the cycle starts all over again.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 4, 2007

Writing

Are you saying you like to read writers who use passive voice, lots of adverbs, etc?

You should always write things YOU like to read, but do you really like to read writers who do the things you're having trouble with?

Writing what you like to read means writing the same way your favorite writers write.

But I would say this. . .write however you have to write. Rewrite and edit according to the rules.

FloVoyager · Jun 4, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Are you saying you like to read writers who use passive voice, lots of adverbs, etc?

No. I'm saying I'm obsessing over every occurrence of them, and that's stupid, and I know that's stupid, and yet I don't know how to stop. Passive Voice and adverbs appear in my favorite authors' works, and add flavor to what might be otherwise stiff writing. I'm saying, the more I learn about good writing the worse I seem to write. My writing was more like it should be before I started over-analyzing it, and that's frustrating. Is this just some stage I have to go through?

Jamesaritchie said:
But I would say this. . .write however you have to write. Rewrite and edit according to the rules.

Yes. Intellectually, I know that. But then I see myself breaking rules and I start worrying about it. "Fix it now," some annoying little voice in my head says. And I do, and I get bogged down, and don't even like the results in my writing. It's not improving anything.

Maybe I'm having trouble developing a feel for when and where it's okay to break the rules.

blacbird · Jun 4, 2007

FloVoyager said:
So I cringe every time I use an adverb, backspace when I start a sentence with "And" or "But," and worry ever time I see the wiggly green line under a sentence--MS Word's way of saying it's Passive Voice.

Look objectively at the adverb, ask Is it needed?, and if you decide Yes, then ask Can I project this information in a better, stronger way?

And the wiggly green line doesn't by any means indicate Passive voice. It indicates something Word considers a grammatical error, which could be a whole lot of other things. Examine those objectively as well. Passive voice combined with lots of adverbs equals prose few people will enjoy reading. There's a lot history of writing and criticism to back up that assessment.

caw

CaroGirl · Jun 4, 2007

There's little point in editing a ms that isn't finished. The first step to becoming a published writer is finishing the darn thing. When it's done, get brutal and ruthless with the grammar rule book, but, until then, just write your story. It's called giving yourself permission to write a crappy first draft and it provides the freedom to write whatever you like as long as you're getting the story down on paper (or the hard drive, or whatever).

MidnightMuse · Jun 4, 2007

I've experienced this problem, perhaps to a lesser degree, but what I did was realize the writing comes first - editing comes second.

I'd suggest to try and "throw out the rule book" and write your story the way you want it. Go ahead and swim in adverbs and passive voice if need be. Try hard to throw out all the little doubts and self editing that we've picked up over the months and years of learning to do better.

Then, when the story is done - set it aside if you need to - or just go straight into editing. But edit the heck out of it. By then, you have the story, you just need to sculpt it. Let all the rules back in, and use them to hack away at your story.

Then take an objective step back and have a look at what you created.

After that, the next one might flow out more easily with the rules in place the first time - the more you ingrain those rules into your natural writing, the easier it is. It helped me, now I'm more aware of the rules without being paralyzed by them.

You're just stuck on that speed-bump

Pisarz · Jun 5, 2007

I wouldn't worry about Word, which is so appalled by my use of the English language that it self-disabled the grammar check function on my MS. I got a pop-up message informing me that there were "too many" errors.

I'm an academic editor for a living. I know grammar. I know "good writing" rules. I also know that Word doesn't account for creative use of language.

I wouldn't give the squiggly green lines a second thought. If your grammar is fine and you aren't breaking the writing no-nos on a grand scale, then chalk it up to Word's lack of appreciation for art.

johnzakour · Jun 5, 2007

I wouldn't worry about what word thinks either. I've see Christmas trees with less green and red on them then some of my manuscripts first drafts with spell and grammer checker turned on.

In a way it's kind of relaxing to look at.

ccarver30 · Jun 5, 2007

Pisarz said:
I wouldn't worry about Word, which is so appalled by my use of the English language that it self-disabled the grammar check function on my MS. I got a pop-up message informing me that there were "too many" errors.

I'm an academic editor for a living. I know grammar. I know "good writing" rules. I also know that Word doesn't account for creative use of language.

I wouldn't give the squiggly green lines a second thought. If your grammar is fine and you aren't breaking the writing no-nos on a grand scale, then chalk it up to Word's lack of appreciation for art.

Yeah! Although it is hard for me to ignore when I end a sentence in a preposition...

Pisarz · Jun 5, 2007

ccarver30 said:
Yeah! Although it is hard for me to ignore when I end a sentence in a preposition...

This reminds me of my favorite Winston Churchill anecdote: He wrote a piece and passed it by some people who worked for him. In a written review, one of them noted his use of a preposition to end a sentence. Churchill wrote back: "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put."

gerrydodge · Jun 5, 2007

This is long, but my father used to tell this story:

A young man from the midwest earns the right to go to Harvard. He goes a week before school starts to become acclimated to the college and the "stuffy" northeast about which he's heard so much. On the final day before classes begin he decides to locate the library. He is walking through the campus and spots a distinguished looking man with a pipe, tweed jacket with leather patches on the elbows. He assumes he is a professor. He approaches him.
"Excuse me, sir, could you tell me where the library is at?"
The professor pulls out his pipe and scrutinizes the young man for a moment. Finally he says: "It is clear to me young man that you are from some backwater area, probably in the middlewest and you've been given the honor to attend one of the most presitgious universities of higher learning on earth. Because I'm sure you want to succeed, I shall give you a bit of advice. You must never ask a question and end it in a preposition."
The boy thought for a moment and then replied: "I trust you will beg my pardon. I will re-phrase the question. Could you tell me where the library is at, asshole?"

janetbellinger · Jun 5, 2007

I agree you should write about things you care about otherwise you lose your integrity. I think though, after the readings I have done in the past few days, that you should also always look at it through the readers, and editors eyes. I am reading a top selling book that starts sentences with And and But etc but the thing is, it has a riveting storyline. That is the thing. It is about the story more than any literary techniques.

FloVoyager said:
I've been having trouble with my WIP, and I think I've finally figured out what it is. I've been reading up on how to write better, and now I'm second guessing myself, and my work, too much. Improving technique is great, but I need to focus on writing what I want to read, and not think about what someone else might want, or I won't get anything accomplished. I write much better when I write for myself, but if I keep on that way I may not get published--judging by the stack of rejections I've collected. Got another one today. Form, as usual. So I cringe every time I use an adverb, backspace when I start a sentence with "And" or "But," and worry ever time I see the wiggly green line under a sentence--MS Word's way of saying it's Passive Voice. I change it, hate it, and end up changing it back.

Somehow, I have to find the courage to toss the rule book out the window and just write, and not worry about whether or not it'll ever sell. But if I do, it may not. And I do want to get published. I'd like to be read by more than a few dozen souls, and my stories want a voice. So maybe I'd better master the rules after all. But... when I try to write with them in mind, I get bogged down and don't like what I produce. And the cycle starts all over again.

dantem42 · Jun 6, 2007

CaroGirl said:
There's little point in editing a ms that isn't finished. The first step to becoming a published writer is finishing the darn thing.

Hm. Not everyone works that way, though. I don't, or more, I can't. I've found that when I don't seem to have the psychic energy to write "forward" effectively, it is very helpful to take a day or two and burnish what I've written already. After a while the motor starts purring again and I'm able to put down some new stuff. However, it's definitely a problem when obsessive editing replaces getting to the finish line, like a golfer who spends all day whacking away at the driving range and never learns how to sink a putt.

As one writer put it, "I write when I'm manic. I edit when I'm depressed."

ccarver30 · Jun 6, 2007

As one writer put it, "I write when I'm manic. I edit when I'm depressed."

It needs to be changed to: I write when I'm manic. Editing makes me depressed. :tongue

FloVoyager · Jun 6, 2007

Thanks everyone. Good advice all around, and similar to what I'd tell someone else in my position. It's just frustrating when all this time, effort, and thoughtful, selective querying has netted me nothing but a few nibbles. No bites. Then I try to improve my writing by studying and it only seems to make it worse, by fouling up the process.

dantem42 · Jun 6, 2007

ccarver30 said:
It needs to be changed to: I write when I'm manic. Editing makes me depressed.

I'm one of those wackos who enjoys editing, actually. The string of little achievements helps keep me going, especially if where I'm about to go with the plot is still foggy. I've gone through editing stints of two or three weeks without moving forward, though by that time I start to wonder if I'm being a bit neurotic.

Dejected

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

Jamesaritchie

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

blacbird

CaroGirl

Living the dream

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

Pisarz

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

ccarver30

Nicole Castro

Pisarz

gerrydodge

janetbellinger

dantem42

ccarver30

Nicole Castro

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

dantem42