75 years? PA response to refusal of contract.

facsmth

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Seven years protects both the author and the publisher. Until only
very recently traditional publishing contracts all over the country
were for life plus 75 years. Ours were, too. But we decided very
quickly that no one's interests were served by these life terms,
especially the author's. So we brought it back to a more reasonable
seven years, and as far as we know we are the only traditional
publisher who allow this. Seven years gives us enough of a timespan
to make a return on our investments. We figure that if after seven
years a book does not move anymore, it has run its course. If it
still moves, the contract can be renewed, in line with what Par. 1
says.

Only some vanity publishers offer contracts with a shorter, or no,
duration. But that is no comparison. Traditional publishers such as
PublishAmerica have nothing in common with vanity publishers.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I hope you will
reconsider declining our offer.
 

DaveKuzminski

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Gee, can their lies become any more blatant? Can PA top themselves? Do dare tune in again to find out?
 

Ol' Fashioned Girl

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Just a little reminder: Check your contract! Those approaching the end of their 7 years (according to my contract) MUST notify them in writing of the desire to NOT renew, or the contract will automatically renew for another 7 years.
 

DaveKuzminski

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If you forget, just remember you can always take PA to arbitration. Heck, you might even be awarded something for the pain and suffering PA caused. ;)
 

Tina

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whhaatt??

Seven years protects both the author and the publisher. Until only
very recently traditional publishing contracts all over the country
were for life plus 75 years. Ours were, too. But we decided very
quickly that no one's interests were served by these life terms,
especially the author's. So we brought it back to a more reasonable
seven years, and as far as we know we are the only traditional
publisher who allow this. Seven years gives us enough of a timespan
to make a return on our investments. We figure that if after seven
years a book does not move anymore, it has run its course. If it
still moves, the contract can be renewed, in line with what Par. 1
says.

Only some vanity publishers offer contracts with a shorter, or no,
duration. But that is no comparison. Traditional publishers such as
PublishAmerica have nothing in common with vanity publishers.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I hope you will
reconsider declining our offer.

I've only heard of "life + 75 years" when it refers to how long it takes for something to go into public domain (when you can use it without permission of author/author's estate).

A publisher that holds rights for that long? Okay PA...please provide some examples...
 

benbradley

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Just a little reminder: Check your contract! Those approaching the end of their 7 years (according to my contract) MUST notify them in writing of the desire to NOT renew, or the contract will automatically renew for another 7 years.
Does that contract say WHEN you have to contact them? Can you ask them six years in advance to not renew it?

FWIW, this is just academic interest, I've never had any connection with AW, other than seeing an online pic of their attorney, who needs a shave.
 

Marie Pacha

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Where was that posted; about life + 75?
 

Marie Pacha

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My PA contracts state"The Author and the Publisher agree that this agreement is renewable upon the date of its expiration during an additional and successive period of seven years, on the same terms and conditions as specified hereinafter; provided that both parties to this agreement shall mutually ratify such renewal in writing at least three months prior to the date of the expiration as hereabove set forth."

In other words PA and I'd have to agree to it in writing three months before the current contract(s) expired. Ain't gonna happen.
 

Ol' Fashioned Girl

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Does that contract say WHEN you have to contact them? Can you ask them six years in advance to not renew it?

Yes, it does. And I quote:

The Author and the Publisher agree that this agreement is renewable upon the date of its expiration during an additional and successive period of seven years, on the same terms and conditions as specified hereinafter, provided both parties to this agreement shall mutually ratify such renewal in writing at least three months prior to the date of expiration as hereabove set forth.

Sounds like I could inform them any time up to the three-month limit that I will not be 'mutually' ratifying my renewal.
 

Rolling Thunder

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Yes, it does. And I quote:



Sounds like I could inform them any time up to the three-month limit that I will not be 'mutually' ratifying my renewal.

Yeah, so do it today! :D

And that 'mutually agreeable' clause is probably not that easy for PA to enforce.
 

Christine N.

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Ugh. The 'only traditional publisher who does this?' Oh wait, I see... 'as far as we know.'

They don't know that the Ellora's cave contract is also for seven years, and just about every book contract I've signed (okay, so it's only three, but that's more than one) is for five years. Who still has contracts for length of the copyright, which is what life of the author +75 years actually is? Nobody still has such a clause in their contracts, and if they do, they're living in the stone age. What publisher wants to hold on to rights that bloody long anyway? (I'm seriously asking, does anyone know of any?)

So it's not a lie...it's just as far as they know, which apparently isn't that far. Or do they mean that seven years is them being generous? That's such an ambiguous statement as to be almost worthless.
 
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roach

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Just another example of PA's ignorance. They seem to be confusing copyright with rights. Although they added another 5 years onto the copyright term for some reason.

Remember folks, PA views the publishing industry through a funhouse mirror. Just take industry practices and figure out the most absurd way they could be twisted and you'll know what's going on in their offices.
 

e.dashwood

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Standard publishing contract states something to the effect that if the book goes out of print, and the publisher elects not to put it back into print, the rights revert to the author. No time-line. No 75 years.

In other words, the publisher has an affirmative responsibility to keep the book in print and honor other aspects of the contract to retain its rights.

This is basically it. As the Talmudists and lawyers might say, "The rest is commentary."
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Okay, the longer explanation.

It's quite common for a publishing contract (with a real publisher) to run as long as the publisher keeps the book in print. That could, conceivably, be for the life of copyright (or even longer).*

That would require that the publisher keep the work in print, and in order to keep the work in print the publisher would have to keep selling copies. If they weren't selling copies, they'd let the book go out of print, and (in accordance with the contract (where reversion is spelled out in painful detail)), the work would revert to the author.

In practical terms, that meant three to five years.

So, if you had a perennial seller, the publisher could conceivably keep the publishing rights for the full term of copyright. This would mean that both the publisher and the author would continue to sell books and make money for that entire period. Why an author would want to take back his or her rights in that happy condition is a mystery to me. It also gives the publisher an incentive to promote and distribute and sell the book.

Since POD has arrived, and some deep-backlist books** have gone to POD sales (where the publisher will print a copy if someone wants one), the contracts have evolved so that a book will revert if, in a (specified) period the publisher sells fewer than a (specified) number.

Please note that in all these cases it is the publisher's responsibility to sell the book if that publisher wants to keep the right to keep on selling it. Else the book reverts, the author can resell it to another publisher, and the world continues to turn.


A reversion clause:

12. REVERSION AND TERMINATION

(a) In the event that the Publisher's edition of the Work shall
at any time be out of print, the Author or his representative may
give notice thereof to the Publisher, and in such event the
Publisher shall declare within thirty (30) days in writing
whether or not he intends to bring out a new edition of the Work;
if he shall declare his intention to bring out such new edition
then such edition shall be published not later than six (6)
months from the date of said declaration; however, if he declares
his intention not to bring out a new printing of the Work, then
this agreement shall automatically terminate and all rights
hereunder shall revert to the Author. At any time after two
years from the date of first publication, but not before, the
Publisher may on three months' notice in writing to the Author or
his representative discontinue publication, and in that event
this agreement shall terminate and all rights hereunder shall
revert to the Author at the expiration of said three (3) month
period.

(b) If the Publisher shall, during the existence of this
agreement, default in the delivery of semiannual statements or
in the making of payments as herein provided and shall neglect or
refuse to deliver such statements or make such payments, or any
of them, within thirty (30) days after written notice of such
default, this agreement shall terminate at the expiration of such
thirty (30) days without prejudice to the Author's claim for any
monies which may have accrued under this agreement or to any
other rights and remedies to which the Author may be entitled.

(c) If the Publisher shall fail to publish the Work within the
period in Paragraph 4 provided, or otherwise fail to comply with
or fulfill the terms and conditions hereof, or in the event of
bankruptcy, etc., as in Paragraph 13 hereof provided, this
agreement shall terminate and the rights herein granted to the
Publisher shall revert to the Author. In such event all payments
theretofore made to the Author shall belong to the Author without
prejudice to any other remedies which the Author may have.

(d) Upon the termination of this agreement for any cause under
this Article or Article 13 hereof, all rights granted to the
Publisher shall revert to the Author for his use at any time and
the Publisher shall return to the Author all property originally
furnished by the Author; the Author shall have the right in such
instance to purchase the plates from the Publisher at their metal
value, and any or all of the remaining sheets or copies at a
price not to exceed fifty percent (50%) of the manufacturing
cost, exclusive of overhead. If the Author shall not have
acquired such plates, sheets or copies within ___ days of the
effective date of such termination, the Publisher shall have the
right to sell such remaining copies at cost or less, without
payment to the Author of royalties on such sales. If the
Publisher shall desire to melt such plates, he shall give the
Author days notice in writing thereof and an opportunity to
acquire such plates as above provided. No such sale by the
Publisher shall transfer the right of publication and sale of the
Work to any purchaser of the remaining copies or sheets. The
Publisher's privilege to sell the remaining copies shall expire
six (6) months after the effective termination date and thereupon
all remaining copies shall be destroyed. In the event that the
parties shall have agreed to the taking of the copyright in the
name of the Publisher, then the Publisher shall, upon such
termination, furnish the Author an assignment of such copyright
to him in due for recording.

(e) The Work shall be considered in print so long as the total
print Run minus total sales of all kinds, total destroyed copies,
and total promotional copies distributed shall exceed 250 copies
of the Work.


* Note that after copyright runs out the work goes into public domain. While the original publisher could still keep publishing the book, so could anyone else.

** For an example, this book (an anthology from Time-Warner, a 256-page trade paperback listing for $15.99) is currently available as a backlist title and is printed on demand. (I chose this one since it has a story by me in it. I rather enjoy getting continuing royalties. I am by no means opposed to or unhappy with POD as a business model, or digital printing as a technology. I do, however, object strenuously to false and misleading advertising, such as that perpetrated by PublishAmerica.)
 

allenparker

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Forever contracts

I think that PA has given the "forever" contract a bad name when it is fact most of the contracts that run the length of the copyright are perfectly acceptable. They have reversion clauses that allow the author to take his book back if the publisher fails to perform.

I have a book under a pen name that has a lifetime plus 70 years clause attached to a clause that allows the publisher and the author, either may act, to terminate the agreement with 90 days notice.

The book pays a few bucks every six months and I receive a copy of Lightning Source's numbers with the check to verify the payment. It works for me. Your mileage may vary.
 

CatSlave

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...I receive a copy of Lightning Source's numbers with the check to verify the payment...
Exactly how do you get your sales number from Lightning Source? I'm sure there about 20,000 happy, happy PA authors that would love to have that information, either now or as soon as they get their next royalty check.
 

Sean D. Schaffer

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My curiosity about this whole scenario is, what if someone has already had their rights reverted back to them? Would they still be forced to let PA know in writing that they don't want their contract to be renewed?

I mean, we are talking about PublishAmerica, after all.
 

Marie Pacha

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I think I will give it to them in writing at my Arbitration.

Marie
 

facsmth

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So I got a call from AuthorHouse... anyone have opinions about them?
 

Ken Schneider

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So I got a call from AuthorHouse... anyone have opinions about them?

Yeh, vanity.

If you want your book in print take it to Kinko's.

Were I you, I'd make it the best it can be and send it to publishers who are commercial and pay you. Then, I'd write another, better book, let it rest in your drawer, write another book, pull the second out of the drawer re-write, make it the best you can, and send it around— and on and on. When you've written a million words, or ten complete ms, you may be getting close.
 

James D. Macdonald

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So I got a call from AuthorHouse... anyone have opinions about them?

Yet another pay-to-play vanity POD.

Forget them. Worthless.

Test them the same way your would PA: Go to your local bookstore. See how many AuthorHouse books are on the shelf.

None, right?

Have you, personally, ever read an AuthorHouse book? Has anyone you know ever read one? Then why do you think anyone would read a book that you printed with them?

On the positive side -- AuthorHouse has more authors than does PublishAmerica (so much for the "number one publisher in the nation"), and over the course of the contract you'll spend less with AuthorHouse than you will with PublishAmerica to get the same number of books to peddle from the trunk of your car (and that's including AuthorHouse's up-front fee).

Quick clue: If a publisher calls you, ask yourself why.
 

facsmth

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I just got my copies of my books shipped to me from Lulu. :D Only snag is that one of the books (thankfully I only ordered the one copy of it) had some major errors I should have noticed while uploading the file. The top half of the page was blank, the text was set to print out much wider than the page so nothing was legible. :(

Atleast now I know to not speed through submitting material to Lulu and to always check if I make mistakes. Anyway, I'm sending a couple of good copies to the copyright office (they'd count as "manuscripts" I hope) next month because I can't afford to pay $80 this month. ... :( Darn shopping sprees. :(

Anyhow, anything good to say about "Vantage Press"? I made inquiries with them years ago. I don't know if they are traditional or vanity.