Americans Writing about England?

Ned George · Apr 26, 2007

After the WIP time and place thread, I noted dozens of writers who placed their novels in England. One groups is predominantly prehistoric (or some era I know nothing about), while the other is spread across post-Napoleonic through Victorian.

Why the fascination with England? I've seen that some writer's conferences even offer sessions on Americans writing about England. I've been lucky to have lived there for many years.

I'm as guitly as you all. Everything I've written begins or ends up in England and all take place between 1799 and 1820. My current MC is a French emigre ala Tale of Two Cities, but not quite so precious. (Face it, Charles Darnay had no charisma. Actually, he had no personality whatever. Sidney Carton made the book!)

My other characters are naval anti-heroes in service after the Peace of Amiens.

I'd lke to hear from other England writers. What's your fascination, your inspiration, your passion, and why does it center on England?

For me, its a love of history in general, Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars in particular. This also encompasses "Regency," of course, so Regency writers reply as well! It would be really fun to share research where possible. There are so many kinds of historical novels, from the action/adventure to the romance (modern definition), war stories, and stories about quiet village life well away from towns or cities.

But why England? Explain yourselves!

PattiTheWicked · Apr 26, 2007

For me, it's a combination of things. I like writing stories set in England and Scotland, because (a) it's where my family is from and (b) I enjoy READING stories set there and (c) I've done a buttload of research on events that took place in England and (d) I think English history is fascinating.

That's not to say American history isn't equally interesting, but there certainly isn't as much of it.

I mean, can you imagine Jane Austen setting Pride and Prejudice in a farm town in Ohio? It's just not the same. I'm working on a story about Hadrian's Wall. There's only one place it could be set

Perhaps we don't even have a choice, in some cases. Maybe the story itself is what determines the setting? I mean, you could say, "I'm going to write a mystery novel," and it could be set anywhere... but if you say "I'm going to write a mystery novel and the main character is the daughter of a clergyman who happens to be married to the son of an MP and it turns out the killer is King Edward's butler".... well, then, you've pretty much got your locale determined for you.

Jenan Mac · Apr 26, 2007

Good point. The setting IS a character, to a certain degree.
My last two WsIP have been set in the same place (piedmont NC, rather than England), but in multiple times. And there simply weren't an abundance of Scots and English colonists in, say, 18th century Tampa. If I'd stuck my people there, it would have been a whole 'nother book entirely-- and vaguely strange, to boot.

Diviner · Apr 26, 2007

I'm with Patti, at least part way, but more than that, my series of historicals, tracing one family, starts in England, so of course I had to set the first one there. In the U.S., particularly on the frontier, the major issue was survival. The education, prejudices, and power struggles in the old country offer more room for exploration of subtleties. The more research I did, the richer I found the conflicts and issues in Britain. I expect to find the conflicts in the U.S less complex, especially because my series deals with the westward movement. But I have not done much research yet except to study family genealogies and read a few old books.

scarletpeaches · Apr 26, 2007

Inevitably I feel I should step in and point out that England is not the island - that's Britain, which is made up of three separate countries and as a Scot I feel obligated to point out that 'English' and 'British' are not interchangeable.

Marlys · Apr 26, 2007

My first two romances are Regencies, set in England. I love the genre, and wanted to contribute to it.

My WIP--which if all goes well should be my third published--is set during the same time period, but takes place in Austria (Congress of Vienna) and France. Still a romance, but there's room for a bit of intrigue.

Diviner · Apr 26, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Inevitably I feel I should step in and point out that England is not the island - that's Britain, which is made up of three separate countries and as a Scot I feel obligated to point out that 'English' and 'British' are not interchangeable.

My research says that the concept "Britain" lapsed after the Romans left and was not used again until the reign of James I, King of Scotland as James VI before he acceded the throne of England in 1603-- thus my use of both terms. No, the terms are not interchangeable, but my use is quite specific, if that is what you are referring to.

I haven't researched the use of UK, so I do not offer that into this discussion.

pdr · Apr 27, 2007

Scarlet has a point...

you do need to be careful in your use of the terms England and English.

Scotland, Wales and Ireland had (and still have) separate identities and fought to keep them.

Great Britain, the Commonwealth, the British Empire or the United Kingdom are useful terms to remember and use. But Cardiff is in Wales and Edinburgh is in Scotland. And King George 111 was not the English King but King of the United Kingdoms of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales (always written in that same alphabetical order.)

Scarlet lives in Scotland, she's Scottish first, a citizen of the UK second.
My friend in Northern Ireland is Irish first and a citizen of the UK second.
My relatives in Yorkshire are English first and citizens of the UK second.
It's important to them for their identity.

scarletpeaches · Apr 27, 2007

Britain as a kingdom (i.e. ruled by one monarch) might not have existed, so to speak, until 1603 and the subsequent Act of Union (17--??) but as a concept, it's only ever been used to describe the island consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. It's never properly been used to describe England alone.

Likewise, if you ever dared ask a Scot or Welshman where in England they were from...let's just say I hope you've got your running shoes on...

C.bronco · Apr 27, 2007

I've never written one, but my guess would be that it is another country on another continent, which makes it exotic (more so than New Jersey), AND you speak English, which is very convenient for us in the USA.
Likewise, setting a story in England allows us American folk to use phrases such as "old chap," which we never get to use around here.
In an aside, my paternal ancestors are from the Scottish lowlands. I'd love to visit one day.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Apr 27, 2007

I've always been fascinated by Tudor England. Why? Who knows!

I can't explain it any more than I can explain my fascination for the Titanic, Egypt or mythology. I just do. It's like liking chocolate and not liking liver. I just accept it and go on.

Puma · Apr 28, 2007

Or could it be that American History has been given short shrift by our educational institutions (and to some extent our writers and publishers)? Yes, American History is shorter, but 400, 500, even 1000 years (Leif Erickson) is plenty of time to have a lot of material to write about. Look at the period of the French Revolution and Napoleonic France - what was happening in the Americas (collectively, not just the states) in the same time period? How much has been written about America in comparison to France? Novels written about the French Revolution don't stray far from Paris - but are novels written about Philadelphia in the same time period looked at with equal enthusiasm or are they classified as too regional to be of wide interest? There's a lot of American History that's not well represented in literature; there are a lot of fascinating stories that have never been told. I'd like to see more writers working on topics in American History. Puma

Ned George · Apr 28, 2007

It looks as though most writers who place stories in the UK are fond of the combination of History with a capital H and romance (in the traditional sense and the modern sense.)

I tend to choose England because
1. I know the country
2. I'm a history geek
3. I love good stories and since no one wrote the story I wanted to read, I decided to write it myself

The more I research, the more stories I find, always in the most unlikely places.

What inspired each of your main characters? For me, it was a mention by a famous sea captain during the 1790s of a French emigre nobleman he had taken on board to tutor his midshipmen sons. He never names the man, but mentions him frequently as his son's companion and his own good friend.

I just couldn't leave it alone.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Inevitably I feel I should step in and point out that England is not the island - that's Britain, which is made up of three separate countries and as a Scot I feel obligated to point out that 'English' and 'British' are not interchangeable.

Ah, and my peach friend, just what is the difference between a Brit and Englander? There is a historical separation or definition that most folks don't know about.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

ned said:
It looks as though most writers who place stories in the UK are fond of the combination of History with a capital H and romance (in the traditional sense and the modern sense.)

I tend to choose England because
1. I know the country
2. I'm a history geek
3. I love good stories and since no one wrote the story I wanted to read, I decided to write it myself

The more I research, the more stories I find, always in the most unlikely places.

What inspired each of your main characters? For me, it was a mention by a famous sea captain during the 1790s of a French emigre nobleman he had taken on board to tutor his midshipmen sons. He never names the man, but mentions him frequently as his son's companion and his own good friend.

I just couldn't leave it alone.

I have to ask. How do you know the country? Have you ever set foot on English soil or lived there? If your knowledge comes from books or other media sources then I can say it's impossible to support "I know the country" position.

Just curious.

Cheers

scarletpeaches · Apr 28, 2007

SpookyWriter said:
Ah, and my peach friend, just what is the difference between a Brit and Englander? There is a historical separation or definition that most folks don't know about.

If you're from England, you're English.

But to describe someone as 'British' means they could be from England, Scotland or Wales. Britain is a group name for these three countries. It's not a country itself, just a collective name, hence the annoyance from Scots and the Welsh when others use 'English' and 'British' as if they mean the same thing. They don't.

funidream · Apr 28, 2007

Books like COLD MOUNTAIN and television series like DEADWOOD are very popular. I just got a two-book deal from Penguin for novels with an American focus. My finished book, UPLAND (on the shelves in Spring 2008) is set on the frontier in colonial Virginia. The second book, (as yet untitled and unwritten) is the first of a three book series set during the American Revolution.

UPLAND was inspired by an ancestor of my husbands - a longhunter - I "found" him doing a geneological research. I am fascinated by all history, but as an immigrant kid (my parents immigrated here in 1951) I always had an affinity for American history in particular.

funidream (the funny dream was that one day I would be published!)

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
If you're from England, you're English.

But to describe someone as 'British' means they could be from England, Scotland or Wales. Britain is a group name for these three countries. It's not a country itself, just a collective name, hence the annoyance from Scots and the Welsh when others use 'English' and 'British' as if they mean the same thing. They don't.

Actually I am from England. Born there and lived on and off for several years. My dad is Scot and my mom is Irish. I hold and use my British passport when living in the EU or England.

So, you are partially right. The term British includes the territories and common wealths of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. I can site the reference, but that's not necessary.

I agree with your statement that Scots are not Brits. Believe me, I have a Scot/Irish temper. Plus, I can drink any Brit under the table on a bad night.

scarletpeaches · Apr 28, 2007

Oh, I never said Scots aren't Brits. They (we) are. But British doesn't necessarily mean English.

Confused yet?

And I'm half-Italian, therefore I rule.

scarletpeaches · Apr 28, 2007

SpookyWriter said:
...So, you are partially right. The term British includes the territories and common wealths of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. I can site the reference, but that's not necessary...

Britain doesn't include 'UK' territories. The UK is the United Kingdom of Britain, the islands, the Commonwealth, blah blah blah...

Ned George · Apr 28, 2007

SpookyWriter said:
I have to ask. How do you know the country? Have you ever set foot on English soil or lived there? If your knowledge comes from books or other media sources then I can say it's impossible to support "I know the country" position.

Just curious.

Cheers

We lived there for about ten years, between 1984 and 1996, with a short time back in the U.S. between. When I first went, I knew nothing of History. Changing schools frequently, I somehow missed it. Sure, we had to learn the cliches of American History, but when I went to school, America was the only country with any history worth learning!

It was so sad, I missed so much. Living in England showed me that America was the new kid on the block and that we weren't even old enough to have furniture one could properly call antique. It was just used furniture.

We fell in love with England while living in a small town outside Oxford called Wigginton. There were more horses than people there, and one was considered "new" until one had grandparents buried in the churchyard. Our house was "The Old Reading Room," and my son was born there. I had sheep in my back garden and the whole village was strewn with daffs in the spring, dozens of varieties planted all around the green. At Halloween, the gardener across the way would bring us pumpkins to carve, great yellow/white gourds with dark orange insides. One was so big, my son fit inside. ... I could go on for a decade, so I'll shut up.

In the end, our time there inspired a love of history that I'd never had before. There's a feeling there, that we don't have here. There will always be an England!

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Oh, I never said Scots aren't Brits. They (we) are. But British doesn't necessarily mean English.

Confused yet?

And I'm half-Italian, therefore I rule.

Not according to Mussolini. But you make be a half cooked Scot who likes to suck up her noodles proper.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

ned said:
We lived there for about ten years, between 1984 and 1996, with a short time back in the U.S. between. When I first went, I knew nothing of History. Changing schools frequently, I somehow missed it. Sure, we had to learn the cliches of American History, but when I went to school, America was the only country with any history worth learning!

It was so sad, I missed so much. Living in England showed me that America was the new kid on the block and that we weren't even old enough to have furniture one could properly call antique. It was just used furniture.

We fell in love with England while living in a small town outside Oxford called Wigginton. There were more horses than people there, and one was considered "new" until one had grandparents buried in the churchyard. Our house was "The Old Reading Room," and my son was born there. I had sheep in my back garden and the whole village was strewn with daffs in the spring, dozens of varieties planted all around the green. At Halloween, the gardener across the way would bring us pumpkins to carve, great yellow/white gourds with dark orange insides. One was so big, my son fit inside. ... I could go on for a decade, so I'll shut up.

In the end, our time there inspired a love of history that I'd never had before. There's a feeling there, that we don't have here. There will always be an England!

Ned, that was lovely. Thanks for sharing those memories. I think you have a love for England and at some point will return. Please do share your memories because they brought me back to where I was born and lived. Again, thanks.

Cheers

scarletpeaches · Apr 28, 2007

Being half-Italian means you don't want to mess with me...but you might as well, 'cause I'm too drunk to fight back.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Being half-Italian means you don't want to mess with me...but you might as well, 'cause I'm too drunk to fight back.

I ain't never met a Scot who didn't like a good fight. Your Italian half is starting to show. Hahhaaa...

P.S. If you're pissed before ten then you're a Brit, else you're a true Scot.

Americans Writing about England?

Ned George

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

Jenan Mac

The Deadliest Bunny

Diviner

scarletpeaches

Marlys

Resist. Love. Go outside.

Diviner

pdr

scarletpeaches

C.bronco

I have plans...

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Ned George

SpookyWriter

SpookyWriter

scarletpeaches

funidream

SpookyWriter

scarletpeaches

scarletpeaches

Ned George

SpookyWriter

SpookyWriter

scarletpeaches

SpookyWriter