Do you think it is possible for a reader to connect with a character that is thoroughly despicable, that s/he despises? Is it necessary for a reader to sympathize with a character?
Unsympathetic & Despicable
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*Fargo voice* You betcha! *Fargo voice off*
I see women gravitate towards the most vile trashy men imaginable all the time.
I see men gravitate towards the most vile trashy women imaginable all the time.
Together I see them produce the most vile trashy children imaginable.
I'd say not only is it possible but a lot of people won't have it any other way.
I see women gravitate towards the most vile trashy men imaginable all the time.
I see men gravitate towards the most vile trashy women imaginable all the time.
Together I see them produce the most vile trashy children imaginable.
I'd say not only is it possible but a lot of people won't have it any other way.
I believe so
If nothing else the writer can connect to the ugliness of the character with the ugliness within them.
Wandering off now
No way in hell. Read my profile, under "writing goals" it states that I aspire to maim Brett Easton Ellis as the worst popular writer of all time. Really. Nothing he has ever written is worth a damn.
The answer to this question, in my opinion, might come in the form of Confederacy of Dunces.
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I think that's difficult. If you'll pardon the TV reference, look at Tony Soprano, or Vic on The Shield. They are despicable people--thieves, murderers, abusive to women, etc., and yet they do have redeeming characteristics, such as loyalty, bravery, even self sacrifice at times.
Without some redeeming qualities, I think a reader has trouble connecting and caring about what happens to them. Besides, it's as hard to write a realistic character who's all bad as it is to write one who is all good.
Without some redeeming qualities, I think a reader has trouble connecting and caring about what happens to them. Besides, it's as hard to write a realistic character who's all bad as it is to write one who is all good.
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Interesting, strong characters -- yes. It works better in 3rd person, though. But even in first person, if you have a really strong voice and interesting perspective, it can still work.
There are different levels of "despicable." Some of them are easier to empathize with than others. As a reader I don't have to be able to sympathize with a character to enjoy the book. Having a hard time coming up with examples, though, so I guess I'm no help! 
I consider it a mark of good writing to make reader sympathize with a character the reader starts the book expecting to not like.
NDG
NDG
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I think Caren is right -- there's despicable and despicable. In I, Claudius, the murderous empress Livia kills countless people who are kinder and better intentioned than herself, but in the end, you end up feeling something for her vulnerability and recognizing that she may have been right about Augustus' weaknesses. OTOH, nobody reads The Lord of the Rings and thinks, "I bet Sauron had a really rough childhood."
You were giving real life examples, but do the real life people -- do the women who go for vile men -- think those people are vile and despicable or do they see or think they see something in them that others don't? Will what is true in real life work in fiction?
Why do you think despicable characters are better told in third person than in first person, Ray?
But Sauron isn't the protagonist; he's the antagonist. As such, aren't we supposed to be rooting against him? Uh... That raises an interesting point. Is it possible to have a protagonist that is so despicable you root for him/her to lose and still have a book that people want to read?
Don't worry, Lori. I'm sure....um....at least one person on AW likes you.
*runs from thread*
I hope not... Author would get blamed for all kinds of nasty things. I'm kidding, but not completely.
They seem to be drawn to them with some type of supernatural infatuation.
I think you would have to present it in fiction as they thought they were wonderful. Maybe keep it at infatuation so that reality never sets it. If that happens then the other character either has to be deranged or really bad themselves.
You can sympathise with a character without condoning their actions. I've read books on serial killers, novels with murderers as the MCs and I've wanted them to get away with it.
Or maybe I'm just sick.
Or maybe I'm just sick.
Was there ever a question to that? But you're the *good* kind of sick Peaches.... *strokes hair* we luvs you.
I loved Less Than Zero. And American Psycho, but I didn't really sympathize with Bateman.
Neat thread.
An interesting example I've mentioned on this board before:
Gillian Flynn's Sharp Objects. The main character of that book isn't completely despicable, but she definitely does some bizarre things. To wit: she makes out with her own sister. (And it's, I must say, HOT.)
But that book is completely, totally engrossing. My favorite book of '06.
An interesting example I've mentioned on this board before:
Gillian Flynn's Sharp Objects. The main character of that book isn't completely despicable, but she definitely does some bizarre things. To wit: she makes out with her own sister. (And it's, I must say, HOT.)
But that book is completely, totally engrossing. My favorite book of '06.
If you read George R.R. Martin, you will find that you begin to root for the good guys, the bad guys, and everyone in between. It's crazy.
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Loathing a character is also connecting with him/her... But will it keep me reading? Not so sure. They either have to be the antagonist or have some redeeming characteristic.
Flannery O'Connor's "Good Country People" remains in my mind one of the outstanding examples of a thoroughly unlikeable protagonist that we end up feeling real sympathy for.
SPOILER ALERT
O'Connor pulls this off by having her let down her guard, make herself vulnerable, and be nastily exploited by someone much worse than herself. I can remember only two short stories of the many we were taught in high school and this is one of them.
Flannery O'Connor's "Good Country People" remains in my mind one of the outstanding examples of a thoroughly unlikeable protagonist that we end up feeling real sympathy for.
SPOILER ALERT
O'Connor pulls this off by having her let down her guard, make herself vulnerable, and be nastily exploited by someone much worse than herself. I can remember only two short stories of the many we were taught in high school and this is one of them.
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