Forced dialog?

I'm guessing this means perhaps dialog that seems stiff and unnatural? Maybe dialog between two characters that reads out of place in the scene, or doesn't appear to serve a purpose??

I would imagine 'forced' refers to unnatural-sounding or stilted dialogue. If it doesn't come across naturally, it probably doesn't belong there.

That'd be my guess, anyway.


I hope this helps.

I've always heard it used to mean dialogue that is unnatural and wooden-sounding, or dialogue that shouldn't be happening - the kind that makes sense moving the story along or revealing information that might be necessary for the plot, but that the characters (all things being equal) shouldn't be saying.

writerterri said:

What does this mean?

Please and thank you.

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Forced dialog: When TheThinker42 talks to her in-laws.

Ok, seriously...

The only way I can think to describe it is stilted, awkward dialog between characters.

All the above are correct. Plus one of the quickest ways to develop forced dialog is to use it as a vehicle for conveying information to the reader:

"Gosh, Mary, you know my father, the ex-real estate tycoon from Rhode Island, who once sailed across the Pacific alone in a 30-foot sloop, and owns five Rolls Royces and really likes cats, would like to meet you."

caw

blacbird said:

"Gosh, Mary, you know my father, the ex-real estate tycoon from Rhode Island, who once sailed across the Pacific alone in a 30-foot sloop, and owns five Rolls Royces and really likes cats, would like to meet you."

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"I, who am madly in love with you, and not for your money, would love to meet him, too. I wore this gold, flowery-print dress and three-inch black heels and my hair in an upswept bun in the hopes of impressing him. Do you think he'll notice the gold Celtic cross earrings with the star-cut emeralds that you bought me last week in Cozumel?"

"Yes."

Dialogue can be used to convey information to the reader if done well though...right? Not quite like your example there, blacbird, but I thought dialogue would be a good way to avoid info-dumping. If it made sense for the characters to be talking about what they're talking about?

Now I'm confused again.

Forced dialogue is conversation that appears to be unnatural, or manufactured just to move the plot along, or reveal information.

As-you-know-Bob dialogue:

"Your sister, Mary, is married to Bob," he said to his wife, "and they had their wedding on April 13, 2002. It was a beautiful day."


Contrived, melodramatic, stiff dialogue:

"Oh, you are so beautiful," he said. "You mean everything to me. I can never live without you, for you are the only one for me."


Unnatural dialogue (unusually long, grammatically correct, perfect):

"Miss Andrews," the teenage punk said to her, "I would like to take you out to dinner tonight at La Chic, the best and most exquisite restaurant in the city, which won the four stars six years in a row. You will enjoy the view of the beautiful downtown area while we have some light dinner and some champagne to celebrate your graduation."

Oddsocks said:

Dialogue can be used to convey information to the reader if done well though...right? Not quite like your example there, blacbird, but I thought dialogue would be a good way to avoid info-dumping. If it made sense for the characters to be talking about what they're talking about?

Now I'm confused again.

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Hard to judge without specific example, in context. But I've seen dialogue in manuscripts that approaches the ridiculousness of the line I posted. And in any case, it has to sound like something a real human being might actually say. Which brings up the next point:

READ IT ALOUD.

caw

Oddsocks said:

Dialogue can be used to convey information to the reader if done well though...right? Not quite like your example there, blacbird, but I thought dialogue would be a good way to avoid info-dumping. If it made sense for the characters to be talking about what they're talking about?

Now I'm confused again.

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Of course! Don't be confused. Just write...if you keep all of the above mentioned in mind, you'll know if the dialogue sucks.

Lyx

Oddsocks said:

Dialogue can be used to convey information to the reader if done well though...right?...

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Yes, but not in the "as you know Bob" way or the Dan Brown's "you know I've done my research so here's the time when my character will tell you everything you need to know" way.

Blacbird's example can be done in a more natural, real dialogue way:

"Gosh, you know my father..." he said.
"Not really," Mary said.
"Just hear me out. When I grew up in Rhode Island, he used to own a lot of real estate and he got really wealthy."
"I wouldn't have known by just looking at you." She laughed.
"I know! I hated it when we sailed across the Pacific. You should have seen the boat, though. And Rolls Royces. We had one for every cat we owned."
"And you had, how many?"
"Five."
"I have five cats." She laughed again. "So what was that you were going to tell me?"
"Oh, right. My father wanted to meet you."
"Crap."

Oddsocks said:

Dialogue can be used to convey information to the reader if done well though...right? Not quite like your example there, blacbird, but I thought dialogue would be a good way to avoid info-dumping. If it made sense for the characters to be talking about what they're talking about?

Now I'm confused again.

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Sure, but there's a way to impart all that info more smoothly, assuming all of it does actually have to be there.

Gosh, Mary, you know my father, the ex-real estate tycoon from Rhode Island, who once sailed across the Pacific alone in a 30-foot sloop, and owns five Rolls Royces and really likes cats, would like to meet you.

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"My dad called from the Rolls."
"Which one?"
"Does it matter? Anyway, he was picking up Mittens from the vet."
"Doesn't he have servants to do that?"
"Yeah, but you know how he is about that stupid cat. Anyway, he wanted to tell me he's taking the Lady Cutter out again."
"Gotta keep impressing the yacht club, huh?"
"I guess. Anyway, he said he's dying to meet you. The building he just bought in Rhode Island has a four-star restaurant."

DeadlyAccurate said:

"My dad called from the Rolls."
"Which one?"
"Does it matter? Anyway, he was picking up Mittens from the vet."
"Doesn't he have servants to do that?"
"Yeah, but you know how he is about that stupid cat. Anyway, he wanted to tell me he's taking the Lady Cutter out again."
"Gotta keep impressing the yacht club, huh?"
"I guess. Anyway, he said he's dying to meet you and wants us to meet him. The building he just bought has a four-star restaurant."

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This still feels like info dumping.

Thanks for those examples, everyone!

That's pretty much what I meant - it's still conveying that information to the reader, and it's still through dialogue, but it isn't blatant.

If you want to see some examples of forced dialogue please refer to my first attempt at a novel in SYW. Bad for me but a good example of what not to do.

JJ

maestrowork said:

This still feels like info dumping.

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True in both our examples. Too much info to fit into a single dialog exchange.

Regarding info dumping in dialogue: How can you really get away from that altogether? I mean, when we speak to each other we are conveying information to each other. I'm not saying I don't recognize the difference but I'm saying that's how we talk with each other in real life. Sometimes.

If the only reason you're relaying the information is to inform the reader, find another way to get it across.

DeadlyAccurate said:

If the only reason you're relaying the information is to inform the reader, find another way to get it across.

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If one character is sharing information with another because they don't know the info is that considered info dumping?

Azura Skye said:

If one character is sharing information with another because they don't know the info is that considered info dumping?

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If done well (not "as you know, Bob") it's fine. The only problem is when the sole purpose of the dialogue is to dump that info on the readers/character. Worse, if the readers catch on, it's just sad.

Read Atlanta Nights, or even the free clips of Atlanta Nights. Best examples of forced dialogue I've ever seen.

Regards,
Scott

"But Bill, you know that when we found Harry's body in the woods and called the police, someone had dragged the body away and the police thought we were lunatics. Of course, it didn't help when Harry showed up later that evening at the restaurant where the cop and his wife and you and I were having dinner. You had the chicken fried steak and dropped mashed potatos on your shirt when he walked in bold as brass with those long teeth and ran away from the velvet painting of Jesus on the wall."

is stilted dialogue or in this case monologue. There are a hundred ways to write the background, or even use the scene to start the book rather than bury it in info - dump rhetoric.

Regards,
Scott