Correlating # of pages

Captain Morgan · Apr 9, 2007

Let's assume we are writing a typical manuscript for a novel. That would be a standard sized MS page, which is double spaced and 10 pts font (didn't it used to be 12 at one time?).

What I am wondering, is when adapted to print, I doubt we'd get a 1 to 1 ratio. With novels having less words per line, I had assumed you'd get perhaps 1.3 pages for each MS Word page, though I'm not sure because of the vertical spacing issues.

I hardly see this concept covered anywhere, though I think I saw some calculations for it just once in my life.

I often would look at my stack of pages and wonder how many TRUE novel pages they'd make up.

Claudia Gray · Apr 10, 2007

This is a problem for your publisher to worry about.

johnrobison · Apr 10, 2007

The page count in MS Word does not matter. The word count does. 90,000 words is a common length for a hardcover book. That will set up to be about 300 pages.

Most of the hardcovers you see in the fronts of book stores are in this range, more or less.

giftedrhonda · Apr 10, 2007

There is no correlation, because publishers can very leading, font size, and margin spacing...and this can change from book to book. That's why you typically just have to go by the submissions standards they put forth.

jchines · Apr 10, 2007

Depends on what your publisher decides to do. Depending on font, font size, and other factors, there's no exact conversion from manuscript to published page.

Like John said, worry about the word count. 80,000 - 120,000 is pretty standard for F/SF novels. (Not counting the doorstop-size books.)

Jamesaritchie · May 12, 2007

Captain Morgan said:
Let's assume we are writing a typical manuscript for a novel. That would be a standard sized MS page, which is double spaced and 10 pts font (didn't it used to be 12 at one time?).

What I am wondering, is when adapted to print, I doubt we'd get a 1 to 1 ratio. With novels having less words per line, I had assumed you'd get perhaps 1.3 pages for each MS Word page, though I'm not sure because of the vertical spacing issues.

I hardly see this concept covered anywhere, though I think I saw some calculations for it just once in my life.

I often would look at my stack of pages and wonder how many TRUE novel pages they'd make up.

It's still 12 pt. Never, ever use a 10pt font in a manuscript. I think this misunderstanding comes about because 10 pitch is the same thing as 12 point. I believe this got started because of those who used early WordPerfect and a couple of other word processors that measured fonts by pitch, rather than by point. Some few writers still use such word processors.

But odds are close to 100% that any recent word processor you have today measures fonts by point, not pitch, so you always want to use 12, not 10.

As for correlating the number of pages in a published novel by the number of pages in a manuscript, it's very, very tough because there are so many variables. To be at all accurate, you must know the exact dimensions of the book, the font the publisher will use, the size of the font, the width of the margins, the kerning, and a number of other things.

But a thumb-estimate is the two-thirds rule. The published novel will usually have roughly two thirds as many pages as the manuscript. Each publisher, however, wants to be a bit different for a number of reasons, so the exceptions are really the standard. And the longer your manuscripts, the smaller the font a publisher will likely use, so you can see how a real rule is impossible.

Jordygirl · May 13, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
It's still 12 pt. Never, ever use a 10pt font in a manuscript. I think this misunderstanding comes about because 10 pitch is the same thing as 12 point. I believe this got started because of those who used early WordPerfect and a couple of other word processors that measured fonts by pitch, rather than by point. Some few writers still use such word processors.

But odds are close to 100% that any recent word processor you have today measures fonts by point, not pitch, so you always want to use 12, not 10.

As for correlating the number of pages in a published novel by the number of pages in a manuscript, it's very, very tough because there are so many variables. To be at all accurate, you must know the exact dimensions of the book, the font the publisher will use, the size of the font, the width of the margins, the kerning, and a number of other things.

But a thumb-estimate is the two-thirds rule. The published novel will usually have roughly two thirds as many pages as the manuscript. Each publisher, however, wants to be a bit different for a number of reasons, so the exceptions are really the standard. And the longer your manuscripts, the smaller the font a publisher will likely use, so you can see how a real rule is impossible.

Two thirds?
How could it have LESS pages than the MS? Do you mean three halves? Or what?

I am officially confused.

Toothpaste · May 13, 2007

Actually James is right, one MS page versus one book page - usually the book page will have more words to the page than the MS one. I mean think about it, your MS is double spaced, in 12 pt font.

But I agree with everyone that it is hard to tell really how big your book will be. My american version of my book is around 310 pages, and the UK version closer to 350 and this is because the UK one is slightly squat, shorter in inches to the American one.

I wouldn't worry about pages, go by word count. 80 000 - 120 000 is sort of the average word count for a book (there are always exceptions, but it is a nice average to work with).

Jamesaritchie · May 15, 2007

Jordygirl said:
Two thirds?
How could it have LESS pages than the MS? Do you mean three halves? Or what?

I am officially confused.

I mean the book is going to have fewer pages than your manuscript by a wide margin. A typical novel has anywhere from 350-450 words per page. If you're formatting your manuscript properly, and using the correct font, you won't have nearly this number.

Gillhoughly · Jun 12, 2007

Go by word count and let the publisher worry how many book pages it will fill.

I had a 90K word novel and a 68K word novel and both ended up filling the same number of book pages.

The publisher fiddled with the spacing between lines to make the shorter work seem to be of equal length to the longer one.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 13, 2007

Gillhoughly said:
Go by word count and let the publisher worry how many book pages it will fill.

I had a 90K word novel and a 68K word novel and both ended up filling the same number of book pages.

The publisher fiddled with the spacing between lines to make the shorter work seem to be of equal length to the longer one.

Many publishers won't do this because paper is expensive. But it's always better to be too short than too long.

Correlating # of pages

Captain Morgan

Claudia Gray

johnrobison

A Free Range Aspergian

giftedrhonda

Gifted Goofball

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Jamesaritchie

Jordygirl

Nothing doing.

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Jamesaritchie

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Jamesaritchie