Today I almost cried.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

I need to vent, so please bear with me. DD

I live in Brooklyn, and I quit my day job mid-February. I was (am) looking for another day job, but I've been enjoying having the time off to edit one book, revise another book, and finish a third book. I've also spent the last month sending out those damn query letters.

Okay, so my P.O. Box is in Jamaica, Queens. I only drive out there once a week to check it to save gas. I haven't left the house much since I've been off work, so I didn't know gas was up to $2.90 gallon. SHIT!

I was excited and very hopeful that at least one agent would've requested a partial by now, but so far, nothing but rejections. The one I received in the mail today had my synopsis returned to me, and I just mailed it out 4 days ago. Okay, I try to shake it off. I decide to drive over to Green Acres Mall in Long Island to see if Borders has copies of the journals or magazines that I want to submit my short stories to. No they didn't. DAMN!

(The last section was removed for personal reasons.)

janetbellinger · Apr 2, 2007

I don't know but I suggest saving your gas and emailing your queries instead. If you get a request for a manuscript, then it'll be worth the $2.00 a gallon to go check your post office box. I don't send anything out by snail mail anymore unless it's solicited.

rugcat · Apr 2, 2007

Dani Dunn said:
How is it that people who can't write half as well as I can have books sitting on shelves and I can't even get an agent to request my manuscript? I wanted to cry. I'm not being arrogant about my writing, but I know I'm at least a decent writer. Half of that crap I saw today was pure garbage.

You've just described what got me off my butt after 15 years to start writing again. And I had a few rejections. In fact, I had an ungodly amount of them, along with more than a few no responses. Just like everyone else.

But I did get an agent, and that agent did find a publisher. It took a while, to put it mildly. A lot of it was luck, or timing, or whatever you want to call it. But a lot of it was simply shaking off the rejections and sending out another query. And another. And another.

This is not to say that everyone who keeps on trying will eventually end up published--life is not that neat or fair. But unless you just give up, there's nothing you can do but put your head down and keep on sending stuff out.

But hey, it does suck. Believe me, I know.

Birol · Apr 2, 2007

Dani, I know you're frustrated and venting, but you shouldn't take it out on the published authors. It's unlikely that so many authors have written "crap." They have, after all, achieved what so many here desire to do. They've attracted the attention of agents and legitimate publishers and made it onto bookstore shelves. Don't denigrate them, but wish them well and study what they've done to see 1) what they did, 2) how they did it, 3) how you can do the same thing differently, and 4) how you can do it better. But do not denigrate them for achieving what you desire.

There is more to writing than just "writing well." It's not just the ability to string a sentence together, but to put the reader into the story, have them connect with the character, compel them to read further, turn the next page, engage their imaginations, not to mention have the right story at the right time in the right place.

stormie · Apr 2, 2007

Dani--
Listen to Janet. I swear by email! It's how I got my agent, and a lot of responses. It's mostly how I submit my short stories and essays, too. Postage in this (lovely) United States is going up to 41 cents in May. Agggh!

Here are a few sites where you will find agents and editors who accept email queries and mss.

www.agentquery.com

www.ralan.com

www.storypilot.com

www.duotrope.com

And look at the stickys on these AW forums--Freelance writing, etc. You'll find markets that accept email.

More and more agents and editors are accepting emails. Much cheaper for us, and I have found I get about the same amount of responses as when I send them by snail mail.

Don't give up! If you feel you can write better than some of those other writers, go for it. You most likely can.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

janetbellinger said:
I don't know but I suggest saving your gas and emailing your queries instead. If you get a request for a manuscript, then it'll be worth the $2.00 a gallon to go check your post office box. I don't send anything out by snail mail anymore unless it's solicited.

I've run through most of the agents that accept email queries. I had to start sending them through snail mail.

stormie · Apr 2, 2007

Dani Dunn said:
I've run through most of the agents that accept email queries. I had to start sending them through snail mail.

Hi again, Dani,
If you've already exhausted the agents who accept email queries, and I see you have done 36 revisions on your query, it just might be the storyline or non-fiction proposal that's not hooking the agents.

Take a good look at your ms. Is it interesting? Good storyline? Plot? Or if nonfiction, will the masses want to buy it?

Lori said it well with
"There is more to writing than just 'writing well.' It's not just the ability to string a sentence together, but to put the reader into the story, have them connect with the character, compel them to read further, turn the next page, engage their imaginations...."

WildScribe · Apr 2, 2007

Birol said:
Dani, I know you're frustrated and venting, but you shouldn't take it out on the published authors. It's unlikely that so many authors have written "crap." They have, after all, achieved what so many here desire to do. They've attracted the attention of agents and legitimate publishers and made it onto bookstore shelves. Don't denigrate them, but wish them well and study what they've done to see 1) what they did, 2) how they did it, 3) how you can do the same thing differently, and 4) how you can do it better. But do not denigrate them for achieving what you desire.

There is more to writing than just "writing well." It's not just the ability to string a sentence together, but to put the reader into the story, have them connect with the character, compel them to read further, turn the next page, engage their imaginations, not to mention have the right story at the right time in the right place.

For the most part, maybe, but I know that I have read some books that had NO redeeming value. Try to get through the book Myrren's Gift and then tell me how it got published. I dare you.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

Birol said:
Dani, I know you're frustrated and venting, but you shouldn't take it out on the published authors. It's unlikely that so many authors have written "crap." They have, after all, achieved what so many here desire to do. They've attracted the attention of agents and legitimate publishers and made it onto bookstore shelves. Don't denigrate them, but wish them well and study what they've done to see 1) what they did, 2) how they did it, 3) how you can do the same thing differently, and 4) how you can do it better. But do not denigrate them for achieving what you desire.

There is more to writing than just "writing well." It's not just the ability to string a sentence together, but to put the reader into the story, have them connect with the character, compel them to read further, turn the next page, engage their imaginations, not to mention have the right story at the right time in the right place.

The books I was referring to had thongs and panties all over the covers. When you open the pages, the first chapters were all about whores, "pussy," gang members and drug dealers. I'm not negating that some of them were of substance, but it was tacky. The vernacular was so poor that I could hardly read it. I can't get with the current trend in "black" literature.

stormie · Apr 2, 2007

Dani Dunn said:
The vernacular was so poor that I could hardly read it. I can't get with the current trend in "black" literature.

Then don't follow them. That's not you. There's also some lousy white chic lit out there, too.

How about putting the ms. aside for a month. Work on something else--short stories, essays. Submit those (love email). Then go back and look at your ms. again. Revisit your query. Just don't give up! (I know, I've been there, and there are times--even now--when I just put my head on the keyboard and cry.)

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

Thanks everybody!

Birol · Apr 2, 2007

WildScribe said:
For the most part, maybe, but I know that I have read some books that had NO redeeming value. Try to get through the book Myrren's Gift and then tell me how it got published. I dare you.

Read what I wrote, WildScribe. I said "so many books." Dani indicated that "half" of the books in the section she was researching were "crap."

Have I read books that were published that I could not get through as a reader? Definitely. Did I consider them bad? Well, yes, or I would've finished reading them. It takes quite a bit for me not to be able to finish a book I pick up on my own. But, I would argue that if half of the books Dani found in the section she was reviewing were so-called crap, then it is likely that she is looking at them from a skewed perspective, a perspective that says, "Why not me?" Maybe they're not books she would enjoy, but something about that type of book is apparently appealing to multiple agents and editors. What is it? All of them are not accepting and publishing "crap." If that's the section of the bookstore Dani wants her books to appear in, if those are the agents and editors she is targeting, then she needs to look at the books critically and analytically in order to determine why they're being accepted and why her manuscript is not even getting partial requests rather than just dismissing them as "crap." The agents and editors are not accepting that much poor writing from multiple authors. The odds are just against that being true.

Is this a harsh sentiment, especially for the Rejection & Dejection forum? Yes, it probably is, but that does not make it any less accurate or honest.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

Birol said:
If that's the section of the bookstore Dani wants her books to appear in, if those are the agents and editors she is targeting, then she needs to look at the books critically and analytically in order to determine why they're being accepted and why her manuscript is not even getting partial requests rather than just dismissing them as "crap."

It's not about the section of the bookstore I personally want my books to be in because I would prefer that they appear under the fiction section. However, the likelyhood that my books would appear in that section is very high due to the color of my skin and the color of the characters.

But honestly, you're actually making me feel worse.

Birol · Apr 2, 2007

I understand that, and believe me when I say I don't like making you feel badly, but... It may not be what you want to hear or expected to hear, but it is what I perceived you needed to hear. It's a sign of my respect for you as a professional that I thought you could accept it.

Go curl up in front of your favorite movie with a bowl of popcorn, hate me for the evening, then come back tomorrow and revisit this thread.

WildScribe · Apr 2, 2007

Birol said:
Read what I wrote, WildScribe. I said "so many books." Dani indicated that "half" of the books in the section she was researching were "crap."

I failed to note that distinction.

POINT!

Jersey Chick · Apr 2, 2007

I know the feeling of walking into a bookstore and seeing stuff out there that you genuinely feel is so much lousier than yours. But then again, I know I'm not the most impartial judge of my own work (but I am getting better

). I don't know that any of us can be entirely impartial to our stories.

There's some great advice here - it's a good habit, work on a different project while you're waiting for responses. Always have something else going on to keep you going. It's too easy to sit back and feel sorry for yourself, but that won't get you any closer to finding an agent or a publisher. And it makes giving up that much more tempting.

I think the suggestion of putting it aside for a while is worth its weight in gold. You'd be amazed at how much perspective you gain from taking a breather (to work on something else

).

And when all else fails - have a glass of wine, soak in the tub, zonk out on 'Deal or No Deal', and have chocolate.

Then get back to work tomorrow.

:Hug2:

Thump · Apr 2, 2007

There IS stuff out there that is pure rubbish actually. Editors and agents are people too, they don't all have good taste and they don't all do it for the love of the art.

Some agent/publish bad books because they figure people will read anything with the word "pussy" in it.

And the sad thing is, in a lot of cases they are right. Millions of people will read a book just because it has sex and "naughty words". Good writing doesn't always trump all

Haggis · Apr 2, 2007

Dani, ain't nothing better than petting a little puppy. Come over here and stroke my fur for a bit, maybe scratch me behind the ears, then get back to work. But take a day off first. You'll feel better, I'll feel better (I always feel better after a little fur stroking), and things might look a bit different. It's a harsh business. There is no alternative but to keep plugging away. Well, there is one. It's called "quitting." I don't see that in you.

CaroGirl · Apr 2, 2007

I just ate a few chunks of chocolate and I feel better, and I didn't even get a rejection today.

There are a million reasons for an agent to reject a manuscript and you can never know why. Sometimes it has to do with the writing (but not always), sometimes the plot, sometimes the characters.

To use a cliche, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Keep writing. If this novel doesn't snag you an agent, perhaps the next one will. Writing improves with practise. Maybe your timing is off and the same novel will sell next year or next decade. Just don't give up. And eat some chocolate, would ya!

johnzakour · Apr 2, 2007

Dani,

Have you shared any sample chapters or your query letter with some of the folks in the forum? They might be able to give you some good feedback.

glassquill · Apr 2, 2007

Don't give up, Dani. I'm sure many of us have encountered similar frustrations before. The key here is not to let it get to you. (I know, way easier said than done.

) Take a short break for now. I hope you'll feel better soon.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

johnzakour said:
Dani,

Have you shared any sample chapters or your query letter with some of the folks in the forum? They might be able to give you some good feedback.

Yes. That's why the query letter has been revised almost 40 times. I even wrote the first three chapters over. I'm brand new to this. This is my very first novel, and I hadn't even submitted a poem to anyone before. I looked on Publisher's Marketplace when I first started submitting, so I was sending my query letters to Donald Maass, Victoria Sanders, Judith Lord, Adam Chromy, etc. I was also using a pretty standard letter for all. I didn't really read through their websites and blogs to get a feel for what they were looking for. If their profile on PM said "African American fiction," I submitted a letter to them. I didn't know then exactly who they were, but believe me, I know now.

In the past few weeks, I believe I've gotten better. I've been researching before I submit a query letter, and the rejections haven't come as fast as before. I honestly don't know if that's good or bad. I think I'm going to remove the word "urban" from my genre label, and just refer to the book as women's lit. Anyway, thanks to everyone for their support. I'm just tired. Eventually, I'm going to have to look for a day job too, and that's got me bummed. I've spent most of my savings now.

Scrawler · Apr 2, 2007

I understand what you're saying. I'll never get how "The Debutante Divorcee" (for example) ever made it into print-- read the Amzon.com reviews. Makes me wonder about some of these agents and publishers.

Dani Dunn · Apr 2, 2007

Scrawler said:
I understand what you're saying. I'll never get how "The Debutante Divorcee" (for example) ever made it into print-- read the Amzon.com reviews. Makes me wonder about some of these agents and publishers.

They go with what's popular. I couldn't believe the book that most of the people were picking up today had a lady pulling off her panties as the cover shot. I know sex sells, but I can't do that.

Dollywagon · Apr 2, 2007

I can understand where Dani is coming from, and at the moment am going through my own "what do they want of me," phase. But, I did read, on these boards I think, some wise words relating to learning your craft. The poster pointed out that many people start off in writing and expect to get published within a short space of time. You wouldn't expect this in any other trade or profession. We all have to learn our craft and many of us on these boards are pure novices. Yes, some people do have a natural affinity and a bit of luck and get published straight away - but the majority do not.

Plus, the market sometimes demands what we don't want to produce. I'm in the UK and have tried to write short stories for the womens mags, but believe me, it's not my style and I know it.

I agree with what the others say, Birol included. A) put down the ms and go and do something else for a short while. B) then go back to your ms and examine what the markets wants and see if you can make a fit.

You're new, you're learning, so you may as well sit back and enjoy the ride.

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