How much of yourself do you put into your characters? If you were writing and suddenly realized you had a Mary Sue, but overall the story was good, what would you do?
Of Mary Sues
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I don't, currently, put that much of me into the characters. Except the antisocial, socially awkward, fumbling, idiotic bits. But if I did manage to conjure up enough delightful characteristics to create a Mary Sue out of me, well, I think I'd be too busy laughing at the improbability of it all... 
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This is funny stuff...and weirdly applicable to other sorts of stories.
It's not really just about how much of ourselves we write into the characters, though--that's not really the problem, I think.
I think the most helpful definition of a Mary Sue I've seen is TNH's:
It's not really just about how much of ourselves we write into the characters, though--that's not really the problem, I think.
I think the most helpful definition of a Mary Sue I've seen is TNH's:
I thought I had a great main character for the story I am currently writing. About three months ago though, I decided to sit down and read some of what I had written and I quickly realized that I had an MC who was:
A genius
Beautiful
Sophisticated
A doctor
A very powerful magician
Loved by all
Favoured by the gods
Talk about a Mary Sue! It was a real wake up call for me and I immediately stripped my character of all her traits and sat down to think. I removed every single pretty "trait" that wasn't necessary to the story and then thought about the people I know in real life, like my best friend, who is similar to how I want my MC to be. I realized that I absolutely love her, but she is not a genius and popular supermodel doctor. Basically I just had a long hard think about why I love her - what makes a person a likable and interesting person - and then applied those traits to my MC. Now, my MC is no longer a perfect person, but she is all the more real for it.
A genius
Beautiful
Sophisticated
A doctor
A very powerful magician
Loved by all
Favoured by the gods
Talk about a Mary Sue! It was a real wake up call for me and I immediately stripped my character of all her traits and sat down to think. I removed every single pretty "trait" that wasn't necessary to the story and then thought about the people I know in real life, like my best friend, who is similar to how I want my MC to be. I realized that I absolutely love her, but she is not a genius and popular supermodel doctor. Basically I just had a long hard think about why I love her - what makes a person a likable and interesting person - and then applied those traits to my MC. Now, my MC is no longer a perfect person, but she is all the more real for it.
In the romance field, it's easy to fall into the MS trap. I don't believe I ever really insert my own characteristics in a character unless it's maybe that my characters seldom ever have children and I, myself, am not a big fan of kids and have none either. (As an aside, I am a great stepmom, however, and much beloved by The Girl, The Boy and The Other Boy.)
Still, in this genre, the 'perfect' characters tend to be the heroes and I have to pay attention to make sure I document my heroes' flaws from time to time. My heroines are seldom the most beautifuil women, or brilliant (but I refuse to write a stupid heroine), and aren't beloved by absolutely everyone. I hate those kind of characters. (ex: Melanie in Gone with the Wind--I was with Scarlett: Melanie was just too good to be true.)
Still, in this genre, the 'perfect' characters tend to be the heroes and I have to pay attention to make sure I document my heroes' flaws from time to time. My heroines are seldom the most beautifuil women, or brilliant (but I refuse to write a stupid heroine), and aren't beloved by absolutely everyone. I hate those kind of characters. (ex: Melanie in Gone with the Wind--I was with Scarlett: Melanie was just too good to be true.)
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Um, been there, done this. I had a character who knew everything - all her problems were external. She wasn't a beautiful genius, but everything was just too..easy. She moved to a new place that she hated, but had BFF's in like a week.
What did I do? Made her a little more unsure, gave her some conflict. She's not perfect, just normal. Surprised by what happens to her, not in complete charge of the situation. Real.
What did I do? Made her a little more unsure, gave her some conflict. She's not perfect, just normal. Surprised by what happens to her, not in complete charge of the situation. Real.
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My WIP contains no Mary Sues, but after reading a particular scene, my beta reader commented, "It's like you were talking to another version of yourself!" Characters come from our imaginations, and I think there's always some little bit of us in there, if only because we give them voices.
In the instance of my scene, one of my characters was being understanding and helpful and quietly pushy, and the other was being bitchy and commanding and angsty. Not idealization there! While I admit I can be commanding the breadth of the emotions in the scene and the different tones taken by the characters are very much their own.
In the instance of my scene, one of my characters was being understanding and helpful and quietly pushy, and the other was being bitchy and commanding and angsty. Not idealization there! While I admit I can be commanding
the breadth of the emotions in the scene and the different tones taken by the characters are very much their own.
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Heeheehee. You'll go blind, you know. The headmistress at my old Catholic school told me so.
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That explains your avatar!
My heavens. Well, back to the question:
Never. I avoid Mary Sue-ing like the plague. Never did it, never will. Even the name Mary Sue makes me shiver.
Never. I avoid Mary Sue-ing like the plague. Never did it, never will. Even the name Mary Sue makes me shiver.
Sometimes I am the protagonist. A Mary Sue is not simply putting yourself in as the main character. Many, many extremely good writers have written classic novels by using themselves as the model for a character.
A Mary Sue is when the writer does not put himself in realistically, exaggerates what he is and who he is, basically makes himself superhuman, or herself super beautiful and super sexy, and turns the novel into a wish fulfillment fantasy.
Mary Sue is usually a character above and beyond normal, who is nearly perfect in every way, and is also usually the writer as the writer would like to be.
I think all good writers put themselves into their own fiction, even if they don't do so consciously. I'd say it's not only unavoidable, it's also a good and wonderful thing, if the writer actually makes himself human.
I don't think that, by nature, a Mary Sue story can be good. Either the oh-so-perfect MC will have taken over the story to the exclusion of all the other characters and the plot, or she'll (he'll, maybe?) end up alienating the readers. Nobody wants to read about a totally perfect character.
I don't generally go for Mary-Sues, because there goes half my conflict and therefore half my interest in working on the story. It's not a conscious decision, but if a character appeared who WAS a Mary-Sue, then I would stop writing there. I would just flat out lose interest.
I did have a character named Mary-Sue in a short story, ages ago. She spent the whole story as a corpse. Revenge for all the horrible fanfiction I was surrounded by.
I did have a character named Mary-Sue in a short story, ages ago. She spent the whole story as a corpse. Revenge for all the horrible fanfiction I was surrounded by.
Traditional Mary Sues (the ones that JAR described) make me run screaming for cover. I think I put little bits of myself into some of my characters. Little things. But I've never written "me" into a story. I'm not that interesting.
Outside of some published romance (some! not most!), Mary Sues seem to be more prevalent in fanfiction than anywhere else. I used to participate in a fandom that was violently opposed to orginal female characters of any kind, and even the best written ones were scorned and called a Mary Sue.
Mary Sue or not, characters are only as interesting as their flaws.
Outside of some published romance (some! not most!), Mary Sues seem to be more prevalent in fanfiction than anywhere else. I used to participate in a fandom that was violently opposed to orginal female characters of any kind, and even the best written ones were scorned and called a Mary Sue.
Mary Sue or not, characters are only as interesting as their flaws.
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Sometimes I write characters that bear certain resemblance to me, in that I've given them some (or many) of my faults. My own faults are easier to write about than other people's, because I'm terribly familiar with them. Of course, plenty of my characters have faults I don't have--zealotry, for instance--but it's harder to write about something like that because I don't have an automatic understanding of the source. When I write about someone who can be unnecessarily obstinate and has a bad tendency to rationalize everything? That, I get. I wouldn't call it Mary Sue-ing, because it's me (sort of), but it's very far from Pretty Pretty Princess.
I suppose that if I realized I had a perfect character on my hands, I'd mess them up quick. Vulnerability is good. However, while I like weakness, I don't like contrariness and stupidity. I don't usually like stories where people constantly make poor decisions because the story needs tension and the easiest way to manufacture that is to have the characters make poor decisions. I often don't like chick-lit because of this predisposition towards really terrible judgment. Also, I'll usually stop reading if a character is overly selfish or self-involved. Basically, I like flaws, but I don't like them to be alienating. I like to feel sympathy for characters, even the villains.
I suppose that if I realized I had a perfect character on my hands, I'd mess them up quick. Vulnerability is good. However, while I like weakness, I don't like contrariness and stupidity. I don't usually like stories where people constantly make poor decisions because the story needs tension and the easiest way to manufacture that is to have the characters make poor decisions. I often don't like chick-lit because of this predisposition towards really terrible judgment. Also, I'll usually stop reading if a character is overly selfish or self-involved. Basically, I like flaws, but I don't like them to be alienating. I like to feel sympathy for characters, even the villains.
If it's a Mary-Sue (I could put the word "proper" in front of that) then it doesn't have any flaws, not internally. It is a perfect and clean slate, which deals only with other character's internal flaws and external problems of the world.
This is a very interesting and timely topic, because my MC lacks flaws and is very boring. She needs help! I actually did consider drug addiction for her....
The basic story writing theory is "run your character up a tree, throw rocks at him, get him out of the tree."
It doesn't hurt to add that your character is afraid of trees, rocks, and heights in there, if you get my meaning.
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