Starting a New Publisher

Then you run into and create the same problem that is PA. You become the marketer, distributor, salesman, and so forth instead of being the author who uses his time to write another better book that will sell even more copies.

Remember, publishing is not a reason to "give writers a chance to be published." It's a business and that means you have to think in business terms.

If you just want people to have your work without taking any risk of being rejected, then get a web page and publish your work there. At least you won't be ripped off by a publishing or agenting scam. If you're any good, you'll get readers, but you won't know it unless they all write to tell you how much they enjoyed your work.

Otherwise, plan on competing for those publishing openings with the real publishers by writing a good book.

smsarber said:

Let's stop complaining about it and get into action! Uncle Jim, BrianM, are you with me?

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Alas, I am not.

The ex-PA author who starts his/her own publishing house has already become a cliche -- and a red-flag warning. This has been done, but I know of very few successes.

Being a publisher is hard. It's a full-time job which requires specialized knowledge, skills, and a good pile of money.

James D. Macdonald said:

Alas, I am not.

Being a publisher is hard. It's a full-time job which requires specialized knowledge, skills, and a good pile of money.

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I agree with Jim.

I know enough about publishing to stay away from PA, and enough to know I know precious little of the business of publishing that I will leave that up to the professionals.

Steven, you're young and full of dreams. Don't let go of those dreams. In the meantime, concentrate your energies on writing the best damn book you can, and let the professional publishers do the hard work of selling that book to the public.

smsarber said:

So, PA is going to give me back my rights, after that is fully accomplished to my liking, I have an idea. Why don't the disgruntled ex-PA, never-were- PA, still-PA, or just interested authors collaborate together (reduntant) and form a publishing company. Something we could run as a traditional publisher, like Random House. Were we could offer a haven for new authors, authors without agents, etc... We are a pretty smart group, and I am positive we could come up with an advertising and promotional campaign that would be worthwhile. Most of us understand what is wrong with the publishing world. Let's stop complaining about it and get into action! Uncle Jim, BrianM, are you with me?

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This is off topic. Open a new thread in the Round Table. While I disagree with you, I'd like to hear your reasons for what you believe.

Someday I want to start a chapbook publishing place. Maybe when I am retired.

smsarber said:

So, PA is going to give me back my rights, after that is fully accomplished to my liking, I have an idea. Why don't the disgruntled ex-PA, never-were- PA, still-PA, or just interested authors collaborate together (reduntant) and form a publishing company. Something we could run as a traditional publisher, like Random House. Were we could offer a haven for new authors, authors without agents, etc... We are a pretty smart group, and I am positive we could come up with an advertising and promotional campaign that would be worthwhile. Most of us understand what is wrong with the publishing world. Let's stop complaining about it and get into action! Uncle Jim, BrianM, are you with me?

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There are problems that are definitely caused by PA that might be solved by a new company - distribution, price, perhaps the reputation. Unfortunately the other problem with PA books is that most of them were poorly written from the start, and this responsibility lies with the authors. Yes, I've read many times that PA introduces errors - but when you look at the writing quality of the people doing the posting and complaining, a large number of their posts have errors as well. Certainly not all, but I have to think that most of the books reflect the same low level of quality.

Leaving PA, terminating your contract, does not make your book better. You may be able to make your book cheaper by using a different outfit, such as lulu - or if your writing was pretty good to start with, and for some reason the gods were against you originally - perhaps you'll get the book into the mainstream publishing.

So, if you want to be a good writer, hone your craft. If you want to be a writer who makes money at it, study the market. In general you'll do better if you write non fiction; you'll starve if you write poetry.

Steven:

First, get a couple hundred million dollars, which is what you'd need to start of publishing company. If you read some of the archives here, you'll find that your idea has been tried again and again [Luna Brilliante, Tico, etc.]

smsarber said:

I AM NOT SAYING I WANT TO BE A HAVEN FOR FIRST TIME AUTHORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to start a legitamate Publishing Company not a friggin author mill!!!
Of course it's been done before. How else did Bantam Books, Random House, Berkley, etc.. start.
Why would I want to be a haven for first time authors? So I could be PA Revised?? I said I wanted a company that would accept submissions from authors. If you are like me, and don't have an agent, fine. We'll read it. That is in no way a guarantee we would publish it.

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first, get a cuppa something warm and calm down.

second, there's a lot more to running a publishing company than just good wishes - there's a lot of work and investment that needs to be made. If you're serious, start raising capital and doing your research. There are a plethora of "good intentions" that you can find on this very site of companies starting out and becoming nightmares, not only for their authors but also for the people involved.

and just chill out.

sheesh.

Chill!

smsarber: Keep a cool tool. Think of it this way - Deep down, I believe that two frustrated, mildly talented people felt the same way you do. They started PublishAmerica as a sort of revenge against their oppressors. Unfortunately, they forgot their roots and became just like the publishing companies they resent.

If you can secure financing, have a good distribution network, advertising and produce regular sized pocket paperback editions - on occasion, you can produce a short run of hardcopy’s of a very popular selling paperback.

In the meantime - get you agenda’s sorted out. It is a very cold place at the top - with only you to answer to yourself with decisions. You will be scoped-out, just like any new guy on the publishing block.

Gary Rogers

To quote you, everyone has an opinion. My latest one is that it's time for me to add you to my ignore list.

If you disagree with people, fine. But lay off the !!!!, all caps and other silliness.

smsarber said:

I said I wanted a company that would accept submissions from authors. If you are like me, and don't have an agent, fine. We'll read it. That is in no way a guarantee we would publish it.

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And once you do that, you will be drowned in poorly written slush, with little time to do anything but send out rejection letters.

There's a reason that the industry has evolved the way it has. Lots of author wannabes. Hence the gatekeepers known as agents...

smsarber said:

I AM NOT SAYING I WANT TO BE A HAVEN FOR FIRST TIME AUTHORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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First, take a deep breath....

Second - no need to yell.

Third - why would you want all the headaches and such? Just work on writing a really good book and you won't need to worry about starting your own publishing house.

And really, isn't that what you want?

I think he should start his own publishing company. If he is in jail like he said, he has stories from his inmates he can publish. And they have printing machines in there too.
So I say go for it. Start your own.
this is just an idea, but you can call it "Bars publishing."

Sassenach said:

Steven:

First, get a couple hundred million dollars, which is what you'd need to start [a] publishing company. . . .

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Not so. Not even remotely so. Plenty of perfectly decent small publishers have started on much, much less, and few established publishers (outside of the handful of giants) have that kind of capital. Remember: the publisher contracts out for printing and a host of other services. Even distribution is typically contracted out. Start-up capital could be in the low tens of thousands of dollars. Some have done it for less--some for much less. No one has to start in the major leagues, and plenty work in a niche.

Prima Publishing, now an imprint of Random House, was started on a shoestring by one man, Ben Dominitz, with one book. It grew, and grew, and eventually became an acquisition target.

Anyway, Book Publishing is NAICS code 511130. Visit www.census.gov, click on link to Economic Census, and noodle around.

There were 3,526 book publishers in the U.S. in 2002 according to the Bureau of the Census. Of those, 2,682 operated for the entire year. The 50 largest firms had 81 percent of the receipts, but that certainly proves that there were--and are--thousands of small publishers. (The 8 largest had 55 percent of the receipts. Ouch.)

Or browse the book publishers in Writer's Market. Lots of small publishers along with the handful of giants. To pick one at random: Pendragon Press, 10 titles per year. How about Cleist Press: 20 titles per year. We are not talking hundred-million-dollar enterprises.

Of course this is completely off topic for this thread. To connect it up: folks who want to find alternatives to PA do not have to start a new publishing company. It is probably far more efficient to study the ones that are out there (Literary Marketplace, available in larger libraries, will have more information that Writer's Market) and to approach ones that are a good fit for a particular manuscript. With literally thousands of small publishers alongside the giants, there should be plenty of opportunities for good manuscripts by writers who are professional in their approach.

All IMHO FWIW YMMV and other disclaimers.

--Ken

P.S. The 1,430 book publishers that operated for the entire year with under 5 employees in 2002 averaged $264,000 in receipts (per publisher) for the year, according to Economic Census data. More than half of all book publishers in that year (1,430 out of 2,682) had fewer than 5 employees. Another 435 had 5 to 9 employees. Barriers to entry do not seem inordinately high.
2002 Economic Census
Release Date: 11/2/2005
Sector 51: Information: Subject Series - Estab & Firm Size: Employment Size of Firms for the United States: 2002

smsarber said:

I want to start a legitamate Publishing Company not a friggin author mill!!!
Of course it's been done before. How else did Bantam Books, Random House, Berkley, etc.. start.

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Once you actually get into publishing, you may find that the odds against writers are steeper than you think. I ran a magazine briefly. Just for the first issue, we went through over a hundred stories (if I recall correctly) just to find four that were written well enough to publish. One of those four went on to win an award though I don't remember the name of the award and I don't even have a copy of the publication left to look up the story so I can trace it. Getting away from what I'm trying to point out. The rest were so poorly written, they rejected themselves. We didn't feel bad saying no to those just because of that. The slush is really that bad and it's not limited to short stories. It's straight across the board. If you plan on publishing, plan on reading a lot of dreck (or at least the first few pages just to recognize that it's dreck).

DaveKuzminski said:

Once you actually get into publishing, you may find that the odds against writers are steeper than you think. I ran a magazine briefly. Just for the first issue, we went through over a hundred stories (if I recall correctly) just to find four that were written well enough to publish. . . .

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Isn't the flip side of that situation that a good manuscript (well written, well presented, and offered to appropriate market) has WAY better odds than the average? Actually, it seems to me that what you described is good news for serious writers who go about the business professionally. Most of the competition stinks.

--Ken

ResearchGuy said:

Not so. Not even remotely so. Plenty of perfectly decent small publishers have started on much, much less, and few established publishers (outside of the handful of giants) have that kind of capital. Remember: the publisher contracts out for printing and a host of other services. Even distribution is typically contracted out. Start-up capital could be in the low tens of thousands of dollars. Some have done it for less--some for much less. No one has to start in the major leagues, and plenty work in a niche.

Prima Publishing, now an imprint of Random House, was started on a shoestring by one man, Ben Dominitz, with one book. It grew, and grew, and eventually became an acquisition target.

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I think Ellora's Cave was the same way - it started out because the woman who founded it couldn't find a publisher willing to publish the erotic romances she wrote. Look at them now...

zizban said:

Someday I want to start a chapbook publishing place. Maybe when I am retired.

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My dh and I did that for 2 years. . . it's a lot of work.


Here's a blog of a woman who is working to start her own publishing company --she reports on the decisions she makes, progress, etc. Very interesting stuff.

The key is to find a market or niche that's unserved at the moment, and create a business to satisfy that market, rather than starting with a type of business and marketing across the entire spectrum. In other words, instead of starting with the idea of creating the solution (a publishing company), start with identifying the problem (a market demand that's not being met).

That's one of the things that Ellora's Cave did right -- realized there was a market for erotic romance that wasn't being met by the bigger publishers, or even the smaller ones, and so they started a business to give the market what it wanted.

The market for books, generally, or even fiction/memoirs/non-fiction generally, is pretty well saturated. The way for a new publisher to succeed is to identify the niche that is not saturated, rather than try to cover the entire spectrum of books.

JD

smsarber said:

So, PA is going to give me back my rights, after that is fully accomplished to my liking, I have an idea. Why don't the disgruntled ex-PA, never-were- PA, still-PA, or just interested authors collaborate together (reduntant) and form a publishing company. Something we could run as a traditional publisher, like Random House. Were we could offer a haven for new authors, authors without agents, etc... We are a pretty smart group, and I am positive we could come up with an advertising and promotional campaign that would be worthwhile. Most of us understand what is wrong with the publishing world. Let's stop complaining about it and get into action! Uncle Jim, BrianM, are you with me?

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Smsarber, your idea isn't for the faint of heart. It takes an amazing amount of luck, capital, and great, experienced minds dropping into your lap (I guess that's part of the luck) at the right time. It's 24/7, up before the sun, working long into the night, intestines-grabbing work. It's a good, solid business plan and a constant eye on the ball mentality. It's knowing when to listen and when to tell someone to go to hell and knowing the difference between the two. It's being willing to think outside the box and never give up.

Depending upon your perseverence you can suffer crushing defeat that leaves you penniless or gains you respectable sales, a great distributor, and success. We've been at this amazing rollercoaster for nearly four years, and no one's beginnings were more humble than ours. We work our asses off every day, and just yesterday we signed KTLA broadcast journalist, Stan Chambers. Last week, we signed a wonderful author from Janet Reid's agency. We also signed an award winning investigative journalist last month. No doubt about it; we've been blessed. But, boyo, we earned every bit, too.

Do your research. Ask a million questions. Be sincere. Be smart. Be honest. And never, ever let anyone get in the way of your dreams.

I'm not convinced there is anything wrong with the publishing world. Reading some stats shows that there were about 4000-5000 publishing companies in the U.S. The top eight netted 40% of total revenue, the top 100 about 55% of the total.

Why is that? Because they do it right, have the capital to back it up, the distribution in place and the return buyers to keep them in business. What's wrong with that?

Slush Killer shows us that 90% of submitted novels are never going to be publishable anywhere. It's the best ten percent that fight for the limited publication slots.

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

I'm not convinced there is anything wrong with the publishing world. Reading some stats shows that there were about 4000-5000 publishing companies in the U.S. The top eight netted 40% of total revenue, the top 100 about 55% of the total.

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According to a bookseller whom I interviewed, the number of publishers is more like 95,000. To read the article with Pam Headrick of A Thirsty Mind go here (or in the archives starting in April)

http://www.coffeehouseforwriters.com/fictionfix/current.html