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Christine N.
03-19-2007, 08:51 PM
I spent a great deal of time yesterday going over a bunch of old posts. And I realized something we've been reahashing the same crap. I've seen people come and go, and the same misinformation be disproven here again and again.

At this point, I'm tired. The past month, when PA's paid pitbull was harassing me, I began to wonder if it was worth it. Not because it's not worth it to help new authors, but for me personally. I have no stake in PA. I've gotten in fights with people here about stuff, most recently Gary (to whom I apologize if I upset him.) Other issues in my life have come up recently, another issue where people feel they have the right to just steamroll others to further their own ends.

I look at my life, and realize that it's just gotten to be not. worth.it anymore. I've done my best, I've fought the good fight. I've learned a ton about publishing. If I don't know, I know who to ask.

But PA as a business is not worth my time or energy anymore. There is plenty of other people who will continue, and plenty of information out there for people to find who choose to do so. Someone will always choose PA or something like them, for whatever reason. We won't stop them. The best we can do is to educate and let people do what they will.

I'm building a career and, sad to say, moving on from this board. I deleted the PAMB from my favorites weeks ago, and found a freedom and peace I haven't had in a long time.

Burnout, fatigue, whatever. I'll peek in here from time to time, and you might see my comments on your rep points. If I do post it will be about education. No more fighting, no more pounding my head against a wall. I care about writers, but not about PA, and too much of my energy has been spent on them, energy I should be putting into my own books or spending time with my son. I joined this forum to give back - I almost submitted to them before I found this board, by doing a Google search that led me here. I figured I owed it to the universe to pay it forward. I think I have.

So, see ya.

zizban
03-19-2007, 08:55 PM
Good luck, Christine.
I generally agree with you. I probably wont browse the PA section of this board anymore.

SpookyWriter
03-19-2007, 08:58 PM
Hey Christine I know how you feel. I've followed your PA adventures and am amazed at the amount of energy you've given to the task of providing solid information. I can only imagine that you need a break from conflict, so do take some time away but don't leave forever. We need you too much. Good luck and best wishes.

Jon

JimmyD1318
03-19-2007, 09:03 PM
Christine,

I think if anyone has earned a break from all of this it's you. I want you to know that I admire you for all that you have done here on the board in the PA section. Please take a rest and I hope you and your family will be well. Don't be a stranger, and stop in to say hi once and awhile! :Hug2:

spike
03-19-2007, 09:03 PM
I know what you mean, but I still believe that it is important to continue to point out PA's scams and flaws.

I also have no dog in this fight, but I think it's necessary. You'd be surprised when you show people evidence and they say, "But that is from 2 years ago. I think things are different."

But good luck to you. The rest of us will keep up the fight.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
03-19-2007, 09:06 PM
Come back to the non-PA side when you're ready, Christine... we have a lot of fun and learn a hell of a lot - and it has absolutely nothing to do with PA.

(((((HUGS)))))

PeeDee
03-19-2007, 09:07 PM
Christine, might I suggest just wandering away from the Bewares Boards for a bit and enjoying what the rest of the forums have to offer? no reason to completely abandon AW, but maybe some time away from the heavier forums (and B&B is pretty heavy) might do you some good?

kristie911
03-19-2007, 09:10 PM
Good luck Christine...I understand your need to walk away for a little bit but I hope you'll be back. You've been a wonderful voice against PA but you're so right, if people care they'll do a little digging and either they'll decide to use PA or not. You can't stop everyone. It's sad PA prays on people but even if we got rid of one, another PA would pop up somewhere else. It's a never-ending battle. But one someone will continue to fight...

I hope I still see you around here, Christine. And if not, you'll be missed!
(((HUGS)))

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm not leaving AW. And this has nothing to do with the notices PA has sent me, per se, except that they made me take a hard look at what is important to me. Fighting with them is just so not worth it. They wanted to make it personal, and it never was personal to me. I'll fight for authors rights, and I'm not going to be intimidated to give over my First Amendment right to free speech, nor will I run out and recommend PA to my friends and neighbors.

But in the big picture, this has affected my life far more than it should have, and in doing so affects more than just myself, but my family. My dad is getting married in May, my son is growing up, I need to concentrate on that again.

I still luv y'all.

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 10:14 PM
Sigh. I can't win. I made this decision today, and ran some errands. Now there's a note I have to pick up a certified letter? I can't read the sender's name, the postman's handwriting is too bad. Can't pick it up until tomorrow, but it sounds ominous.

What are the odds? So, my friends, stay tuned. I may need you, both for support and helping me fund this fiasco. Yanno, why would you pick on someone you know has no money? Doesn't make sense. I don't even know I could afford a retainer to write a letter to them. The initial consultation is free, but after that.. I'm really in no position financially to even travel to Md.

I hate PA. I used to just dislike them, now I hate them.

Sigh again.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
03-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Does the notice show the zipcode of the sender? If it's MD, don't pick it up. ;)

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 10:27 PM
Can I do that?
I refused to sign their ridiculous settlement, in which I would have had to delete ALL my posts here and not say anything against them ever. Uh, who can tell me where and what I can post on someone else's message board? Not them.

It was silly. And not worth it. They're all not worth it, and I wonder if Vic gets some sort of feeling of self-importance by bullying people.

Like I said, I leaving this part of the board, but I won't have someone try to gag me for speaking my mind. And that's what it is, my mind.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
03-19-2007, 10:29 PM
Sure you can not pick it up. It will eventually be returned to them.

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 10:33 PM
Yeah, but the post man will keep trying to deliver it, I think. I dunno. I don't want anything more to do with them at all. I just don't need the added stress when it doesn't even affect me. I'm not anybody special, I'm not Writer Beware or P&E or TNH or some author who's sold zillions of books. I'm nobody, and I want them to leave me alone already and let me get back to my life! I want to put my energy to more postive purpose.

I mean, probably few people outside of AW have even heard of me, so what's the deal?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
03-19-2007, 10:34 PM
Then he can show it to you when he catches you and you can say, "Refused." :D

PeeDee
03-19-2007, 10:49 PM
Write, with a big permenant marker on the package, "RETURN TO SENDER."

I do it with AuthorHouse letters all the time. :D

Old Hack
03-19-2007, 10:54 PM
Christine, just go have a look at the letter, or wait for the postman to bring it, and if it's from Them, refuse to take it. Easy.

Popeyesays
03-19-2007, 11:02 PM
By all means get it, and if it is from them, give it to your attorney unopened.

Regards,
Scott

brianm
03-19-2007, 11:14 PM
Some years ago, I purchased a show dog from a person in Oklahoma. I ended up suing the person for the return of my money, because the dog was not what they claimed it was. I could bring suit in one of two ways:

1) Go to the state where the "crime" was committed and sue them through that state's courts.
2) If I wanted to save myself the expense and hassle of traveling to Oklahoma and have the lawsuit in my state, I had to serve that person on California soil.

I was able to serve them on California soil, so I never had to go to Oklahoma to sue them. FYI, it was a civil suit, as the amount was larger than what was allowed by the small claims courts.

Isn't it correct, that in order for PA to take any kind of action against Christine, they would have to start the lawsuit in her state?

Right now, they are sending nasty letters. However, if it comes down to a lawsuit, I believe they have to bring suit in the state where the alleged "crime" was committed.

PA authors do have to travel to Maryland to resolve their disputes, because they signed a contract saying they would resolve disputes by arbitration in Maryland.

However, Christine is not a former PA author.

Anyone know if I am correct? It may lessen some of the terrible strain and duress that Christine is obviously under at the present time.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
03-19-2007, 11:16 PM
Now there's a good question for that 'first time free' consultation. ;)

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 11:20 PM
I don't know if it applies to "Internet cases".

Either way, it's just completely ironic that this dumb thing came after I sat down yesterday and decided there was too much anger in my life. This issue and the other I was talking about were making me a sour person, someone I don't want to be.

The universe laughs...

LeslieB
03-19-2007, 11:47 PM
They've been very careful to avoid the postal service up until now. Take heart, maybe it's something from a publisher or agent.

And if it is from them... my previous offer stands.

Christine N.
03-19-2007, 11:48 PM
Certified mail? I doubt it.

Sparhawk
03-19-2007, 11:50 PM
I don't know if it applies to "Internet cases".

Either way, it's just completely ironic that this dumb thing came after I sat down yesterday and decided there was too much anger in my life. This issue and the other I was talking about were making me a sour person, someone I don't want to be.

The universe laughs...

Christine,

If you already have legal reresentation in this matter, PA shouldn't be sending you ANYTHING. IT should all go to your council and not to you. I can sympathize with what you're experiencing and I personally applaud you for all taht you've contributed here. There is life outside of PA. Don't let tha tmouse Vic make you miserable. He cannot harm you. Laugh it off if it is a PA document and let your attorney deal with it.

As always, I am here if you need to talk.

Very respectfully,

Greg B

PeeDee
03-19-2007, 11:55 PM
PA's address is publically available.

Sign them up for every free mailing list and magazine trial you can find.

:)

Shwebb
03-20-2007, 12:00 AM
Now, Pete! Tsk, tsk!

Seriously, Christine--you know you can count on us to do what we can--even if all some of us can do is give you a shoulder. (You can have one of mine, I have two of them.) At some point, I'm sure I could contribute to a legal fund. And if there is anything else, well, let us know. Like blogging. Or trying some way to get the news out about how you're being treated by PunishAmerica.

Glad to see you aren't departing AW.

MMo
03-20-2007, 12:07 AM
Take heart, Christine. The certified mail may be something completely unrelated -- like a summons to jury duty.

Please be advised though, that in some juristictions, accepting a certified letter, depending on its contents, can be accepting service of summons in a lawsuit. Be real careful before signing for it.

Mo

Sheryl Nantus
03-20-2007, 12:39 AM
Christine,

If you already have legal reresentation in this matter, PA shouldn't be sending you ANYTHING. IT should all go to your council and not to you.

just wanted to repeat that - you *can* look at the envelope before you sign for it. Just a few weeks ago a delivery truck arrived and some guy handed me a package and the computer pad to sign for it - I checked the address and refused to sign, since the address was right but the PERSON was wrong and I knew darned well we weren't expecting anything from that company. He took it back and went on his merry way after making a note.

it may be something totally unrelated or just the usual slimy tactics of sending you an "official" note to try and terrorize you. If you already have a lawyer I'd call him/her up now and see what's going on - or just refuse it.

heck, PA has a history of refusing certified letters from their own authors - serve the idiots right to have it turned back on them!

:)

KCH
03-20-2007, 01:51 AM
Christine,

You are exactly right to pull back if it's affecting your family life or your well-being. PA does enough damage without you ceding that kind of power to them.

And you're exactly right that others will step up. You've certainly done your part.

For what it's worth, I plan to step up in my own little way. I volunteer with an organization that sends out speakers to inform senior citizens about scams. Typically, the topics involve bank accounts and identity theft. But after lurking and learning at this board, I see the need for good information on how real publishing works. Why, I do believe I've found my do-gooder niche. Thanks for the inspiration.

Best wishes for peace and calm.
--KCH

Cathy C
03-20-2007, 02:15 AM
Christine, I understand fully how you feel. I've faced similar things in my life and came to realize that rather than defining my own path, the events had come to define me . . . and that's not what I wanted with my life. Whatever you decide to do, I'll support you. Good luck! :)

James D. Macdonald
03-20-2007, 02:19 AM
They're trying to terrorize you. If they can get you to delete your posts here they'll crow from one end of the internet to the other about their "victory" and attempt to use it as a precedent.

Remember how they boasted about making Kevin Yarbrough "meekly apologize" after they sent the fake cop (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102559&postcount=7748) around to his house? Same deal.

In the short run this sucks. In the long run you can get a townhouse in Frederick, Maryland, and a helicopter of your very own.

KCH
03-20-2007, 02:42 AM
Remember how they boasted about making Kevin Yarbrough "meekly apologize" after they sent the fake cop around to his house? Same deal.

Wow, James D. Followed your link and I'm dumbfounded. Are these people nuts? Impersonating law enforcement? Very dangerous ground. With that kind of M.O., publishing scams will be the least of their eventual rap sheet.

Christine N.
03-20-2007, 02:53 AM
This is not about them and their letters. Not really. The fight with Gary last week really made me think about my purpose here. I know he was trying to be helpful, and my reply was far harsher than it should have been. I realize I've been losing patience a lot lately on this thread and it's just not how I want to be.

I sat and wrote a ton in my WIP this week. I just got some editorial notes back on my second book. The letters are just more weight on the camel's back in addition to other 'stuff'. Just one more thing. I want to be a 'writer' again, not somebody PA harrasses because she's got an opinion about them.

They don't scare me, but I just need to refocus. Not just here at NEPAT, but other areas too.

It's been like an awakening. I know some others who used to post here suffered from burnout. I think I am too.

Thanks for all your support :) It means the world.

Glenda
03-20-2007, 02:58 AM
Christine, you know what is best for you and your family. Do what you feel you have to do and know that we support you. I'm sorry that this has happened to you.

Rolling Thunder
03-20-2007, 03:14 AM
Find a friendly reporter you can talk to Christine. Publicity is the cheapest and best defense you always have.

Pagey's_Girl
03-20-2007, 03:20 AM
PA's address is publically available.

Sign them up for every free mailing list and magazine trial you can find.

:)

You are evil...

I like that in a man. :D

DaveKuzminski
03-20-2007, 04:15 AM
If nothing else, Pete's idea will provide examples for their editors to use in learning how the finished product should look and read. ;)

By the way, if Christine has a lawyer now, then PA and Vic have to send their communications to him, not to her.

Jersey Chick
03-20-2007, 06:21 AM
I know I'm still a newbie, but I've been going through a lot of the old stuff to catch up and I think it's terrible, what they've put you through. I have a few friends who are attorneys and, if it comes to that, they might be able to point you in the right direction. Just let me know - I'll help out in any way I can as well because this is the good fight and it looks like you've got a lot of people in your corner.

benbradley
03-20-2007, 08:03 AM
I say we take up a collection to send Vic a razor and a can of shaving cream.

PeeDee
03-20-2007, 08:04 AM
You are evil...

I like that in a man. :D


If nothing else, Pete's idea will provide examples for their editors to use in learning how the finished product should look and read. ;)


Actually, if I were to do this (which I am heartily tempted, but probably won't) I would request publishing information from AuthorHouse, iUniverse, and all sorts of other POD publishers like that and then have it sent to PA's address.

Will Lavender
03-20-2007, 08:18 AM
Remember how they boasted about making Kevin Yarbrough "meekly apologize" after they sent the fake cop (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102559&postcount=7748) around to his house? Same deal.

Holy hell.

PeeDee
03-20-2007, 08:23 AM
I remember that. I was alarmed.

Okay, next prank, we could send a male stripper in police uniform by their offices.

Tsu Dho Nimh
03-20-2007, 08:12 PM
Sigh. I can't win. I made this decision today, and ran some errands. Now there's a note I have to pick up a certified letter? I can't read the sender's name, the postman's handwriting is too bad. Can't pick it up until tomorrow, but it sounds ominous.

Sigh again.

Christine -
If you have a lawyer, and he has contacted PA to tell them that he is your legal representative ... they are violating all sorts of court rules by contacting you directly.

If it is from PA, hand it to your lawyer UNOPENED and have him deal with it.

James D. Macdonald
03-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Or, better, contact your lawyer and ask him/her what to do with this nonsense.

Jersey Chick
03-20-2007, 08:57 PM
I remember that. I was alarmed.

Okay, next prank, we could send a male stripper in police uniform by their offices.


I like the way you think! Maybe that stripper could look like the round guy from "Borat" or Chris Farley's Chippendale's dancer?

James D. Macdonald
03-21-2007, 12:39 AM
You and Kevin aren't the only ones PA has tried to harass, Christine. See also this adventure from a current AW member:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=508924&postcount=1013

allenparker
03-21-2007, 01:32 AM
I say we take up a collection to send Vic a razor and a can of shaving cream.

Why the shaving cream? And can it be a dull razor?

Sparhawk
03-21-2007, 04:15 AM
Here's the sad thing about this, and this is nothing against Christine. I have the utmost respect and admiration for her. She is one of the nicest and most helpful people I've come across.

Sadly, Vic and PA will take this as a win. Christine is moving on to do other things, but Vic and company won't see it that way. They'll see it as a confirmation that their harrassment tactics are successful. Again, isolate one author and go on the attack until that author is either frutrated by the incessant threats or simply doesn't want to put thier family through the aggrivation, or as if Christine's case; simply wants to devote time to her latest WIP and other challenges.

To Vic and PA I say this. We certainly aren't Wildebeasts roaming the open plain, and you,Vic, you cowardly, ungentalmnly mouse, are for from a predatory lion looking to pick off one of the herd. You see you haven't really won anything. Christine Norris is a brilliant writer bound for success; her star is rising. The three untalented hacks at Publish America lacked the talent to acheive what she's already accomplished and they'll never be able to soar to the heights of success that Ms. Norris will acheive in the future.

So sit back in your recliner, Vic and PA, as you read this thread and wipe that shi* eating grin off your faces; yeah that one, you know that squirly evil half smile you wear while while sending out royalty checks for $0.00.

Living well and being successful is the greatest revenge; you haven't stopped Ms. Norris, all you've done is motivate her to succeed, not that she needed your help, but having another motivating factor is always helpful. And as you read through this thread and literally self gratify yourselves over your misconstrued win, I ask that you consider this. Look at all the people who've come to her side, look at all the offers of assistance, each one of them solid and legitimate. Think about all the friends this wonderful woman has here as is evident in each post.

Now having considered that ask yourselves this; When your house of cards finally tumbles and your brought before justice, who will be there defending you? Who will be offering to support you both emotionally and finacially? Who will be there to offer you a helping hand or a word of encouragement? Who will be there? Dare I say no one.

All you'll see are the faces of those you've harmed lined up to tell their stories either in person or by depostion. It is beleived, in the Tao, that events travel in a circle, what you've bestowed upon others will eventually be bestowed back upon you; the larger your circle the bigger your reward or turmoil. When I think of all the people you've swindled, the dreams you've crushed over the last several years, I think about what will happen when your circle finally closes and how terrible a fate lies in store for you.

May the Creator forgvie me, but when your circle closes, I think I will be smiling. I'll remember Christine Norris and Kevin Yarborough and I'll remember what you tried to do to me. We're all still here and we're all still writing despite your pathetic attempts to silence us.

You've won nothing and have lost the two things that matter most in life, far more important than money; they would be honor and integrity. Publish America and Victor Cretella I pity you both. Christine Norris, God Bless and keep you. You are a dear friend and role model whom I hold in the highest esteeem.

Sweetlebee
03-21-2007, 04:25 AM
I haven't been following the PA stuff close enough to understand everything, but why haven't the news organizations caught on to this yet?

Alan Yee
03-21-2007, 04:52 AM
At this rate, they might see it as a victory that she's not posting about them anymore. I think this calls for the Babs Treatment.

DaveKuzminski
03-21-2007, 05:36 AM
... The three untalented hacks at Publish America lacked the talent to acheive what she's already accomplished and they'll never be able to soar to the heights of success that Ms. Norris will acheive in the future.


If I'm not mistaken, Vic is also a failed writer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that makes it four out of four for PA's biggies. Even I can claim more success than Willem, Larry, Miranda, and Vic and I've stated before that I'm not a great writer. I don't claim to be more than a hack writer, so that's got to grate on them that I'm earning thousands with my writing. :P

brianm
03-21-2007, 08:05 AM
At this rate, they might see it as a victory that she's not posting about them anymore.

This isn't a victory for PA. A victory for PA would be taking P&E or Writer Beware to court and winning. But, they can't do that, because they know they can't win. Because what P&E, Writer Beware, and Christine are saying, is the truth.

If it weren't the truth, they wouldn't be wasting their time going after an individual who doesn't have money. They'd be going after deeper pockets.

Frustrated and knowing they can't do anything, they revert to their usual tactics. They slither about in the grass seeking out easy prey. However, this snake has no venom, just an ugly hiss with no bite.

There's an old saying about one rotten apple will spoil the whole barrel. PA is rotten on the outside. One can only imagine how spoiled the barrel is on the inside. IMO, what’s hidden on the inside is what will eventually catch up to them and shut them down.

All PA has to do is be honest. State that they are a vanity press that derives its income by selling to their authors, and their authors' families and friends. Then all the hoopla and commotion will stop, and threads like this will fade and go away.

Alan Yee
03-21-2007, 08:36 AM
This isn't a victory for PA. A victory for PA would be taking P&E or Writer Beware to court and winning. But, they can't do that, because they know they can't win. Because what P&E, Writer Beware, and Christine are saying, is the truth.



I'm not defending them. They're screwed either way, because I'm not going to stop posting, and neither are you or anyone else. In fact, they should be scared of entering a courtroom again. They'll lose again, like they did every time before.

I'm just waiting for Christine to say it's okay for me to--start something. I smell another Ti-En-Aych rant on the horizon.

ETA: If I sound a bit snappy tonight, I apologize, Brian. It's not anything personal. I'm just frustrated about various other things at the moment. And it's late.

brianm
03-21-2007, 09:18 AM
I'm not defending them. They're screwed either way, because I'm not going to stop posting, and neither are you or anyone else. In fact, they should be scared of entering a courtroom again. They'll lose again, like they did every time before.

I'm just waiting for Christine to say it's okay for me to--start something. I smell another Ti-En-Aych rant on the horizon.

ETA: If I sound a bit snappy tonight, I apologize, Brian. It's not anything personal. I'm just frustrated about various other things at the moment. And it's late.

No reason to apologize. I knew you didn't consider it a win for PA. I just didn't want any PA lurkers to think it was. :D

PVish
03-21-2007, 04:26 PM
If one submits a bad manuscript (dreadful poetry is pretty easy to whip out quickly) to PA, and one has print-outs of all the emails PA sent in accepting the manuscript, and one has PA contracts signed by somebody at PA, and then one marks up a contract in highlighter to show all the scammy stuff, and one speaks to various groups, one will have a great deal more credibility when one says, "PA is a scam outfit that accepts anything."

"Show and Tell" is better than just "Tell."

brianm
03-21-2007, 07:08 PM
I'm not sure I'm getting your point, PVish. The PA threads on AW have a great deal more show than tell. Including, detailed explanations of what is wrong with the PA contract,

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21345

links to sites where ex-PA employees talk about their experiences within PA,

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008505.html#164708

links to sites of ex-PA authors and their experiences with PA,

http://www.freewebs.com/meet_real_pa/

If you are referring to this thread in particular, this shows how low PA will go in order to stop the truth from getting out. Whether they send fake cops,

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102559&postcount=7748

or letters that carry less weight than the paper they are typed on, PA cannot get away from the truth. Nor can they stop people from getting the truth out to the public about PA. Whether it be by standing in front of a live audience or getting the information out on the Internet.

PVish
03-21-2007, 10:00 PM
I'm not sure I'm getting your point, PVish. The PA threads on AW have a great deal more show than tell. Including, detailed explanations of what is wrong with the PA contract

The folks suckered by PA—or about to be suckered—don't read these threads. In many cases, they don't know that these sites even exist. They don't know how publishing works and they don't know where to find out. They've got a *great idea* for a book, have no idea how to get published, and someone tells them about PA.

At writers' groups, I've heard these comments: "At least I didn't have to pay to get published" (PA Author) and "How can you say PA is a scam!? They've published so many authors!" (non-PA Author—yet), and "There's a lot of bad stuff on the Internet about Publish America that just isn't true!" (PA author).

If I have manuscript and contract in hand to show these people that PA publishes anybody and I'm not "just jealous" because PA rejected me, I can make my point a lot easier. (Plus, I consider the dreadful manuscript + contract a primary research source for a future article.)

For the newbie authors, reading something on the Internet isn't quite the same as holding evidence in your hand and seeing the evidence first-hand.

I've run into a couple of newbie (but older) authors who've had to pay someone to type their manuscript onto a computer because they have no computer skills. These folks aren't about to Google.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers
03-21-2007, 10:30 PM
For some - like me, the Publishing arena is an undiscovered country until you are immersed in it. Okay, like a fish in a plastic bag, slowly being filled with the fish tank's water. Unfortunately, Tracy & I were snagged by PublishAmerica’s net. Only until many people started to complain about this printing outfit - did we realize that we were encapsulated - trapped. Lucky for us, we scratched and clawed our way out.

The “flag” is Research, Research, Research. If an aspiring author would only use their search engine before submitting their manuscript, they would not make the uninformed decision to “submit” themselves to PublishAmerica.

After the ether has worn off - like a sneaky hangover that keeps pounding in one’s head after a hard night of partying - does a person “wake-up”.

I keep repeating myself, like a badly scratched CD - Research, Research, Research.....

Gary Rogers

JulieB
03-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Exactly, PVish.

It makes a difference to hold the contract and the drivel in your hands. Another resource is the model contracts at the SFWA site (http://www.sfwa.org/contracts/). While individual contracts from publishers or agents may vary, these show what a good author-friendly contract should look like. Put one of those side-by-side with a PA contract and note the similarities and differences.

(Remember, individual contracts may vary, this isn't legal advice, yadda, yadda.)

brianm
03-22-2007, 12:56 AM
The folks suckered by PA—or about to be suckered—don't read these threads. In many cases, they don't know that these sites even exist.

I don't mean to argue with you, and we are going off thread, however, you need to take a look at "How I found this site" in the newbie forum. Here are a few recent quotes.


I found you just before I'd of had the misfortune to register with PublishAmerica.



Well, I actually found this forum while browsing many different publishing companies.... and let me just say... I was really leaning towards PA... until I read all of the pages on this site about them


During a google search for Publish America. <ducking> I notice it's not a highly thought of publisher here.


I was researching Publish America (and realized what utter bilge that company is) when I came across this place. It seems like an outstanding resource for hopeful writers and I'm thankful that I found it.


I'm another one saved from PublishAmerica's tragic practices. I submitted my story to them, and of course, I got an e-mail back saying how they wanted to give my book "the chance is deserves" (what a bunch of sh*t). So, I went on the net and I wanted to know as much as I possibly could about PA. When I wrote in the search engine, I clicked on the second link that came up (since the first one was the official PA website) and low and behold...it was this site! I couldn't stop reading all the trash on PA and when I continued reading, I knew exactly what to do with the contract--shred it into a million pieces!

There will be many more writers who will google publishers and be led to PA's website. It always comes up as the first link when I google it. Some will do more research, some will not. Some will heed the warnings, and some will ignore them. However, there is no question that our threads, and threads like ours all over the Internet, have stopped many aspiring writers from signing with PA.

Getting the truth out about PA is the goal, whether it is in front of a live audience or one on the Internet.

PVish
03-22-2007, 01:30 AM
I don't mean to argue with you, and we are going off thread, however, you need to take a look at "How I found this site" in the newbie forum. Here are a few recent quotes.

We're not arguing. We're trying to save two separate groups. You're refering to people with computers. I'm refering primarily to those who are not computer literate, who have usually heard about Pa from a (ahem) "happy author" or from the newspaper story about one of these (ahem) "happy authors."

I've been called by people who looked me up in the phone book and asked me how they could get published. I've met folks who've come to a writers' group I'm in (they read their handwritten work) and want to learn how to get a book published. (A couple folks in my writing group don't even have email.)

Last week, the 75 or so high school creative writing kids who saw my dreadful manuscript and PA contract had never heard of Publish America before, but most had heard of poetry.com (and several had previously gotten scammed by the ILP). Now they're warned and know where to look for information. Before they didn't have a clue.

Many writing newbies will not ever find this forum. They will find the first vanity publisher someone they met--or someone they read about-- recommended. They will be the ones who send hard copies to PA or who pay someone to put their manuscript on a disk.

The more ways we can get the word out the better. When I go into schools, I find my sting manuscript and PA contract are great visuals to show.

JulieB
03-22-2007, 02:04 AM
Once again - exactly. The Internet is just one resource for writers. There are books and magazines, critique groups, talking to classes, and panels at conventions to name just a few. I just love how this community is so willing to reach out and help other writers - not just on this area of AW but in every aspect of the business.

Besides, it's nice to get away from the computer and go interact face-to-face with people once in a while.

And I'm off to do just that!

KCH
03-22-2007, 04:37 AM
PVish,

Good for you! Going to schools is an excellent idea. Not only do you do them a great service, it's probably great fun for them. Plus, you're teaching them not just about PA, but about how to spot other scams and bad deals. It'll serve them well for a lifetime.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers
03-22-2007, 07:19 AM
Mind: Gary, shut-up already!

Gary: Hey, you are the one who shouted, “There are computers in the Public Library to do Research!”

Mind: Yeah, you’re right. Sorry ‘bout that old chum.

Gary: “Old Chum!” - You are as old - even older by nine months more or less.

Mind: Err... How about watching CSI, Crossing Jordan, Medium or something. I’ll get off the topic of PublishAmerica.

Gary: Yeah, okay. I just have to post this so people who do not own computers can Research PublishAmerica on the computers at their local Public Library. There are people there to assist them in operating the search engines.

Mind: Do what you have to do. I will assist.

Gary: Thanks for the help with the fingers....

Gary Rogers