Marvel: Civil War

it wasnt bad, but this concept had the potential to be fantastic.

it all comes down to a poor explanation of the motives of the characters.

i had no clue what some of these heroes were thinking. the stamford tragedy happens, they want to register powers.

and im thinking: so what? in the real world they wouldve done that a long time ago. so it just seemed like a non-issue to me.

and then they had cap rebelling saying that superheroes shouldnt have to work for the govt, etc.

but they shouldve shown why that was a problem. they shouldve shown that those heroes who registered already were fighting in wars, or they were being forced to fight crime in ways they didnt want to.

that wouldve crystallized the divide and made cap's reasoning and fight much more logical.

the other huge problem was that marvel hyped this up w/ "who's side the are you on?" slogans, but the writer's were so clearly on cap's side. they made iron man such a prick that no fan would choose his side of the war.

it was just ridiculous to think that tony stark would get a bunch of psychopath villians to take down his friends.

absolutely ridiculous.

and it was idiotic how they said he cloned thor. a) as if that's even possible (how do you clone a magical god's powers?) b) ive never seen stark do something as machiavellian as this before (this is the guy who fought w the panther when he found out he was spying on the avengers).

they really wrote stark out of character.

but, w thaaaaat said, i still think it was fun.

it just had so much more potential.

oh, and marvel was foolish for not releasing the illumaniti series before this. that series explains what's going on a helluva lot better.

I preface this with the warning that I have not read Civil War. I do know the basics though.

See, I didn't think that it was much of a leap to work out that Cap would be anti-registration. Who is he? The Greatest of the Greatest Generation, right? He fought, was created even, to fight just such a thing.

I thought the idea sounded pretty good, and like has been said, could have been awesome.

I even didn't mind Spidey unmasking, but then in fairness, I heard one of the writers talking about it at a Con, and he justified very well, not even a stretch to believe. However, whether that came through in the book or not, I don't know.

Same writer also made some observations about the "suits" at Marvel sticking their fingers into projects and completely arsing them up. Wolverine Origin being a prime example. Started off hot, suits got involved, threw in tons of idea that "HAD" to be included, and the mini-series sank.

I think when you drive a project, you have full control. My experience if indie companies, is that they give a lot more freedom to the creators. When you get to the big boys, they seem to have that "Hollywood" demographic-analyzing, test-audience checking, bean countingmentality and great ideas never seem to deliver the way you hope.

The flip side is obviously that you simply can't work on something as epic as Civil War, or Infinity Crisis, unless you have that kinda organisation behind you. The same organisation that will then arse it up!

PeeDee said:

(and why the hell is Spider-Man wearing his black costume again?)

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i was wondering the same thing.

im sure it has nothing to do w the movie that's coming out.

PeeDee said:

(and why the hell is Spider-Man wearing his black costume again?)

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Well the official reason is that he's gonna go darker because something terrible happens in his life, so the black is more fitting.

Myself, and I know this is gonna sound CRAZY! Like some conspiracy-nut shinola. But I think it may have something to do with a certain movie that is due out this summer where a black costume is a key plot point.

WHAT? THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK!

WHO SAID THAT?

Not me.

PeeDee said:

I would like a little less unification between comics, I think. But that may be a whole 'nother topic...

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me too.

id like an acknowledgment of certain events but nothing that detracts from the specific title.

but we're in the minority on this.

Noone ever stays dead so Cap will be back. Also, Spiderman is in black because something terrible happened....spolier in white color ink....Aunt May was shot...

I liked Civil War but agree it could have been better. I think the winner was the right choice in that it was the logical choice. Stark may have been out of character but I have never found him more interesting. I think I'm the only person who likes the idea of a self serving border line villainous Stark, though. I didn't like the way Reed played second fiddle to him, though. I don't even like Reed but he's easily as established and prominent a man in the Marvel U as Iron Man is. They had Reed at the same level as Pym. I just don't see it. I also don't like the whole Peter Parker looking up to Tony Stark deal. Parker needs to grow up a bit and stop being the endless teenager.

The story over all felt fragmented and rushed but that's the way of things like this. There were things I wanted resolved that didn't seem to be but I hope will be in the future.

Cap...I don't know about that guy. Overall I dislike him but Civil War made me like him a bit. It doesn't hurt that my favorite writer...Ed Brubaker...writes his book I guess. He's just so incredibly over competant. He's trading punches with Iron Man...what? That's absurd.

PeeDee said:

I realize maybe something darker's going to happen but, er, shouldn't something darker have happened BEFORE he got the costume on? And anyawy, is it just a black suit? I mean, it thus far doesn't seem to be the Venom suit again.

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Having a total brain-fart now and I can't remember the name. The white-haired bird who was a cat-burglar but had the hots for Spidey and kinda turned good. The blue/black costume with the bits of shagpile white rugg around the cuffs and boots. You know the one I mean.

Anyways, I believe she thought he looked hot in the black suit and made him a non-symbiotic version. Sewed herself and everything.

Now that is love.

When did MJ ever do that?

So, he DOES have a black version that is JUST a costume.

And it's still completely unrelated to a certain blockbuster due out this summer.

Honest!

wordmonkey said:

Having a total brain-fart now and I can't remember the name. The white-haired bird who was a cat-burglar but had the hots for Spidey and kinda turned good. The blue/black costume with the bits of shagpile white rugg around the cuffs and boots. You know the one I mean.

Anyways, I believe she thought he looked hot in the black suit and made him a non-symbiotic version. Sewed herself and everything.

Now that is love.

When did MJ ever do that?

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Felicia Hardy, the Black Cat. And MJ may not sew Pete new union suits, but she's a supermodel! Who cares about love? (Maybe that's what he's thinking)

jnesvold said:

Felicia Hardy, the Black Cat. And MJ may not sew Pete new union suits, but she's a supermodel! Who cares about love? (Maybe that's what he's thinking)

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That's it!

My sanity thanks you.

My family thanks you (because they'd have had to live with me while I slink around the house in a foul mood trying to remember.

I tried to forget the Black Cat after that horrible Kevin Smith book. 1st half good--second half atrocious.

DecemberQuinn said:

I tried to forget the Black Cat after that horrible Kevin Smith book. 1st half good--second half atrocious.

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Sounds like another Wolverine Origin nightmare.

"Hey this is an awesome book. Sales are great, cool story, slick art. Y'know what we need? We need to get all the Editors and suits together, throw all the ideas we have for the way we think this should story should play out. Now obviously they'll ALL be great ideas, so what we'll do is throw them ALL at the writer and get him to include them all."

I jest of course, but I find it hard to believe that a writer can start an arc, then have a complete melt-down half-way through and ruin the arc.

Now I don't doubt this is possible. We've all had an awesome idea that would be such a cool story... er... but how do I wind it all up? But this is one of the joys of working in the business. And as writers, we have to deal with Editors, with artists who think they can write a better story and have more clout, with fan-feedback that causes the publisher to want to change directions.

If you're a pro, you deal with it. Pick your fights and cash your checks. And one day, you have enough clout to make it right.

But where do you draw the line?

You need hooks and mystery and plot points that are, no pun intended, water-cooler moments. But you also need to resolve SOME of them or your audience switches off.

Crossing disciplines, it's a problem LOST has had. And yet the flip-side is that HEROES manages it very well? The Jeph Loeb factor? Just a comicbook factor?

PeeDee said:

Okay, the biggest spoiler post of all.








Captain America, one of my all-time favorite heroes, one of the only reasons why I read Civil War......dead.

Question: Will Marvel leave him dead? Or are we going to get a "Death and Return of Superman" sort of storyline?

(I'm crushed at Captain America's death. I really honestly am.)

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it was one of the worst death scenes ive ever read.

death by sniper is so contrived and banal for anyone, its pretty unforgivable for marvel to do that w cap.

and it was also pretty obnoxious to release that he died before anyone even read the story.

Inkdaub said:

Noone ever stays dead so Cap will be back.

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he's def. not dead.

they totally showed their hand here as well.

i dont really mind if they dont kill someone like him off, but its annoying how they lied to the media about this.

I liked Civil War but agree it could have been better. I think the winner was the right choice in that it was the logical choice. Stark may have been out of character but I have never found him more interesting. I think I'm the only person who likes the idea of a self serving border line villainous Stark, though.

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i actually love the idea of a machiavellianl stark.

love it.

but it needed to have some basis.

they just threw it out there.

and it made no sense to use villians to capture friends.

no sense at all.

PeeDee said:

Okay, the biggest spoiler post of all.








Captain America, one of my all-time favorite heroes, one of the only reasons why I read Civil War......dead.

Question: Will Marvel leave him dead? Or are we going to get a "Death and Return of Superman" sort of storyline?

(I'm crushed at Captain America's death. I really honestly am.)

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They brought back Superman?

I remember when Jim Steranko took over Captain America from the late great Jack "The King" Kirby. Issue #111 I believe they killed off Cap. But he was back the very next issue.

I hope they bring him back, to me Captain America IS Marvel Comics. He's the character that got me started reading them back in the 60s and he's been the one constant all my life. Without him, what is the purpose to life? Why go on?

It's Captain Britain, PeeDee.

I have a feeling Steve Rogers is dead. Captain America may come back, but...seems to me that's what Joe Q was hinting at in last week's Joe Fridays.


BTW, I agree, I like when other stuff is happening besides fights. I like the subtle stuff and the mysteries.

Captain Britain was the best damn bit of pandering to an audience I've ever seen. Marvel UK made a UK hero and they actually made a decent character!

My bet of Cap (not as good as Captain Britain) is that the Super Serum that kept him alive after his fateful face off (no pun intended) with Red Skull at the end of WWII will kick in again.

Or, and I have to admit I think this is the favorite, considering it's Marvel), we'll discover that Steve Rogers only survived or reacted to the Super Serum treatment because he was mutant and...(same as above).

BTW, Captain Britain could kick Cap's butt.

Oh, and Union Jack IS a Marvel character who has popped up and disappeared from time to time. No powers as such, but he does have a Webley pistol.