Re: My opinion
Hmm James,
“My bookstore doesn't stock books by Dave, Victoria or Ann either.”
Granny is right. Let’s not compare a large, enterprising publisher like PA who has published 2500 books with a few measly authors. I'm talking about how many books do PA stock at your bookstore. Let’s compare publisher vs. publisher. Who is Dave's publisher? Who is Victoria’s and Ann’s publisher? Daw? Baen? I have seen many Daw and Baen books in my local bookstore. How many books of Dave’s, Victoria’s and Ann’s publishers have you seen stocked in your local bookstore?
Now, PA books... that I haven’t seen a single one. Surely, out of 2500 books published, they would have at least 1 book stocked at my local bookstore? Especially since they claim that they stock and sell many books through mortar bookstores! Surely, if their claim is true, then I would at least see 1 book in my bookstore that’s published by them? Surely they can’t be lying? And surely…surely if they’re lying, Dave, Victoria and Ann have the right to tell the others about the lie? And surely, if the lie is indeed a lie, then they are not libeling or defaming PA by warning others of it?
“If aspiring authors who are dissatisfied with PA put half as much energy into researching PA as they do about griping after publication they would not be in the bind they are in. Period.”
Aww. That was mean. Okay anyways, that’s what Victoria, Ann and Dave are doing. They’re trying to make research on PA easier. So now, all those lazy authors can do their research at a click of the mouse. And they wouldn’t gripe so much anymore.
But you still can’t blame those newbie authors for putting their trust in PA. If PA could just stop putting those messages about them selling so many books thru’ brick and mortar stores!! And you blame those guys for entering the lion’s den. See why people should be making more complaints about PA now? Then authors will go in with their eyes open, and no one would gripe about PA, and you would have a publisher with a more solid reputation. Of course, I believe PA don’t want authors to go in with their eyes open. Otherwise, they’ll be losing lots of books to publish. And they need more books to publish if they want their revenue. =)
“I have never disputed this. The dispute is when bad points are clarified, and good points are brought forward. My problem is when PA authors complain about issues that are in their contract or widely known before they signed. You can't walk into a glass door and then blame the glass maker for your broken nose.”
Widely known? What is it that is ‘widely known’? Is it that PA isn’t a true blue traditional publisher as opposed to what they say on their website is widely known? Is it that they don’t publicize for their authors and that their books aren’t really sold in many brick and mortar stores as they claim are widely known? Is it that they don’t do ‘editing’ for authors as other publishers ‘edit’ for their authors is widely known? Is it that they accept any mss that comes their way as opposed to other publishing houses is widely known?
You know what? Maybe you’re right. Those authors deserve being stuck with PA forever. They deserve to have their books jammed with PA, forever unable to sell. WHO ASKED THEM NOT TO DO THEIR RESEARCH!! These facts are after all widely known. I can’t believe their stupidity. *shakes head* Considering how widely known that most traditional publishing houses give more than 2 review copies(even without negotiation) as opposed to PA, and how widely known that most traditional publishing houses bother to doctor edit the books by their authors as opposed to PA who only edit, and how widely known it is that most traditional publishers bother to at least do a bit of publicity for their books as opposed to PA, I can’t imagine why these authors are so STUPID as to not know!! In fact, they deserve it. Geez, these people. STOP GRIPING AND GET ON WITH LIFE!! YOU DESERVE IT FOR NOT DOING YOUR RESEARCH AND NOT KNOWING FACTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WIDELY KNOWN!!
It’s amazing why Dave, Victoria and Ann even bother with these people. Maybe because they’re afraid those widely known facts are not widely known enough. So they’re trying to make it more widely known. And those people who still go into PA without the widely known facts, well *shrug*, THEY DESERVE TO NOT BE ABLE TO SELL THEIR BOOKS!!
So yeah, obviously authors who read the contract and sign it knowing beforehand that you’ll be only getting two copies of your book, you shouldn’t gripe about it after that. After all, you SHOULD know that other traditional publishers give their authors more than 2 review copies. You mean you didn’t know? THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU DESERVE JUST THAT TWO COPIES. WHO ASKED YOU NOT TO DO YOUR RESEARCH??!!!
You mean you didn’t even know that other traditional publishers bother to doctor edit the books as opposed to PA who only edits for grammar and punctuation? THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU DESERVE AN UNEVEN BOOK THAT MUDSKIPPERS WON’T EVEN READ. WHO ASKED YOU NOT TO KNOW THOSE WIDELY KNOWN FACTS??!! JEEPERS.
“The dispute is when bad points are clarified, and good points are brought forward.”
Why is it that bad points are ‘clarified’ but good points are ‘brought forward’? Couldn’t their bad points be really a bad point with nothing to clarify about? Maybe both bad points and good points should just be brought forward.
Okay, so now James, we should talk about the good points of PA. It’s time to go on to their good points, which I believe is what you are trying to make widely known. Yeah?
1)Firstly, all the points in their contract is negotiable (meaning you can make their contract a decent one). But first, the authors have to know that in the first place they’re not getting too great a deal. And those who didn’t know that the initial contract offered by PA is a poor one in contrast to that by other traditional publishers, well, obviously they deserve a poor contract. WHO ASKED THEM NOT KNOW WIDELY KNOWN FACTS??!!!!
2)Secondly, they offer great deals on their own books every few months!! How delightful. Now, just let me get more of my own books so I can stock them in every place of my house, so guests just can’t not notice I wrote a book!
3)Thirdly, the people are a joy to work with. (attested by James, so i shall believe it PS: No sarcasm here.)
4)I can get my book published even if the mudskippers think it too uneven to read.
5)James, you fill this in.
Apart from point no. 3 (no. 4, too, maybe), it seems as though PA has no other good qualities. And I'm talking about good qualities in comparison with other similar traditional publishers. Because that's what PA claims to be, ain't it? A traditional publisher. So we shall only comapre them with other traditional houses.
And James, if you can think up of any more good points PA have as opposed to other traditional publishing houses, please inform everyone about it. We all want and need to know the good points of PA to measure them with the bad points.
“Take a look at the posts again. I'll wait for your apology.”
I read through Dave’s very initial statement (before he had this cranky debate with you) on his website P&E, and found that there was no putdown about PA as you keep going on about, except for a warning that PA has a poor contract, and was thus not recommended. If it weren’t for me finding Dave’s site, I would have gone with PA. I had no idea that their contract was poor. I was a newbie author, eager to publish my book. And PA sounded like a dream. There were so many success stories about authors seeming to have sold thousands and thousands of books (at least it seemed that way to me) and about how PA have published so many books (good record) and how PA sells their books in mortar and brick stores!! A dream come through. I really wanted to walk into a bookstore and see my book on display. Going through their entire website, I decided to post my mss to them.
I wanted to be a PA author.
And then, excited after posting my mss to them, I wanted to search up on the books they sell, and I typed in PA into the search engine, and to my horror found many bad reports on PA.
Fortunately, being the distrusting person I am, I only sent half of my mss to the publisher (thinking that if the publisher likes it, they’ll ask for the full script. Apparently they didn't need the full script, or rather, they hadn't noticed i hadn't given them the full script, because they replied with a proposal contract). So really, I have a lot to thank to people like Dave and Victoria. I see no reason why I should be apologizing to you, because you are putting them down, saying that they have ‘reasons’ in warning others about PA. Truthfully, I think it’s just their pure heart and intentions, and for that I salute them.
I wrote this the last time: “ The last time I told you that they accepted my half-written manuscript, and you just went ha-ha. I maintain that that is not a joke but proof of the poor quality of screening PA has.”
You never bothered to reply to this claim as usual. Tell me, if PA is really not as lax as they are in taking mss as you so seem to preach, then why would they accept a half-written mss? Or do you actually admit that they are indeed very lax in their acquirement of manuscripts? I realize how careful you have to be in answering this. Because if you say YES, you know they are lax, and have poor quality control, you are immediately admitting that PA is no traditional publisher as they preach (and as you seem to preach). And as the domino effect goes…if they lied about being a traditional publisher, then yeah, maybe they lied about selling their books thru’ mortar stores, and who knows what other lies they have made? So yes, if you don’t answer this question again, I’ll understand. As would the other readers, I believe.
…Of course you can just discredit me by saying I’m lying that they accepted my half-written mss. Hmm…
Maybe it’s time you admit it James. I’m sure you know that PA is not recommended for most authors, and authors should only go into contract with PA with very careful treads. Say it aloud. Tell others that it was for u because it fitted your plans, but for most people it won’t be suitable. Admit that the people who speak against PA are right about their accusations. Admit that most newbie authors aren’t and won’t be wary about the poor contract PA offers until someone tells them it’s poor. And believe it or not, I have nothing against you, but that against the publisher. As such, I do wish you well, and hope you won’t be just one of the statistics in failing to make your book a success within PA.
PS: And obviously no one wants to see you publish with PA again, but that’s only because we wish you well!! As you can judge, by how strongly against PA we speak.
SiverMask
Or if I'm going to marry that cute girl I met on my commute today...