Do you ever think about your curses?

Cathy C · Feb 22, 2007

On the "Let's start over" thread, I originally responded to aruna with "Heavens no!" I don't swear very much in print, of the four-letter variety, but because of my upbringing, I quite often use "deity-related" exclamations and curses, even though they really don't "mean" anything in my head. Now, for those easily offended, stop now, because I'm going to invoke a whole bunch of things here that may or may not be offensive to some. I WILL be nice enough to use asterisks to replace letters so they don't wind up painted all over the internet.

It made me wonder about cursing in general among the NT crowd. So I ask you---should a curse/exlamation have "value" or are they just words blurted out in a crisis or moment of joy? By having value, I mean SHOULD the words selected have a meaning to the person or is it actually BETTER that they're just random words?

For example, some of those I use (a few are regional or creative interpretations):

Je*us H. Ch**st!
G***amn it!
OMG! or Oh...my...god!
F**king Ch**st on a crutch!
Holy h*ll!
Holy sh*t!
Heavens no!
Oh good lord, yes!
Oh, for god's sake!

These are just so ingrained in my psyche that I don't know if I could quit if I tried. I hear plenty of avid church-goers who say the same things (and, in fact, LEARNED a few from church members as a kid!) so it makes me wonder if non-theistic people should be wary of using deity-related comments or if they're just words that have no value.

Next, when you write deity-related curses, do you capitalize them in your head, or even on the page? Do you find you have to go BACK in your writing to alter these phrases that your characters might say?

Remember, I'm not looking for comments on blasphemy or people saying I'm going to go to hell for bringing up the topic. It really is an issue in writing and I have found myself going back to capitalize things that I know the editor will consider proper nouns.

wordsmyth · Feb 22, 2007

I'm so glad you posted this, because it reminded me of a question.

What does the H. stand for in Jesus H. Christ? Henry, Howard, Him?

And, does anyone create epithets for their characters? A friend of mine says "sunkinaditch" for son of a *itch, and I say "piffnwaffle" instead of bull**it and another friend says "oh my hell" instead of "oh my christ".

Curiouser and curiouser....

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 22, 2007

I don't know, Cathy. I see just as many Theistic-thinking people using such curses as I do Non-Theistic. I know I myself have to constantly guard against certain curses because of my own faith. But at the same time, I'm not so worried about other curses such as 'Bullsh*t' or 'Cr*p', etc.

It could be seen as a weird thing, but I'm more likely to use the real F word in a conversation than I am to mention a deity in such talk. I think it's a respect-for-the-said-deity thing more than a respect-for-other-people's-ears thing.

At least that's my experience. I hope it helps, and I personally wouldn't worry too much about saying something like 'Heavens no'. As far as curses go, I think most people, unless they've lived very sheltered lives, have heard just about every curse their language has to offer... and in many cases, have probably spoken at least a few of them.

ETA:

In answer to your other question, I don't know if this will help much or not, but if I were writing a deity-related curse, I would probably be willing to capitalize, simply because many deities are addressed by a proper name (such as Zeus or Odin). The word 'god' is not always capitalized because it can refer to more than one deity in a more general sense.

One might note, for example, that I refer to my Deity as 'G-d', with a capital 'G' and a dash between the first and last letters. This is because this is to many a proper name. But just referring to any deity out there as a god does not, IMO, require the capital 'G' because it is not considered a proper name for the said deity.

So I think the fact a deity is called by a proper name, not whether or not a person believes in the said being, would be the overriding factor in whether or not to capitalize it.

Rich · Feb 22, 2007

It's kinda like Harry S. Truman. Neither has meaning. There's a certain resonance about saying "Jesus H. Christ!" Not that I've taken to it.

benbradley · Feb 22, 2007

The abbreviation OMG could have the meaning "Oh My Goodness" which I presume isn't blasphemous at all.

Any of my characters who use these phrases will use them like "real people" do:

Losing a job, "Oh my God, this just sucks bigtime" (a somewhat blasphemous use of God, without much thought or reverence).

The death of a loved one, "Oh my God, Oh my God, why did you take him/her, why have you done this to me?" (clearly speaking to The Creator, not blasphemous except possibly in one's grief questioning what He has done).

I suppose this has more to do with writing the character's actions to be true to their beliefs rather than what the writer believes.

If I recall the etymology correctly, damn was originally a religious term meaning God condemning someone to Hell, but it has become a swear word (probably much like Hell has too, apparently). It's interesting that capitalized, Hell tends to have its original meaning of that place where the unrepentant go after death, but hell lower-case is just a general swear word, or a more figurative sort of bad place, an uncomfortable situation.

And speaking of being blasphemous (and no doubt this IS blasphemous!), I always thought Jesus Christ's middle initial was F (as in the F word, adjective/adverb form).

veinglory · Feb 22, 2007

I see myself as a member of a religious world and don't worry about my language reflecting that whether it is "heavens above" or "In Sh'Allah". I also put an angel on my Christmas tree and use biblical symbols in my poems.

This is just part of being in a predominantly Christian country and not a statement of faith. In fact I would assume the use of blasphemy to be rather the reverse? I also own an American flag but am not American, a leather motocycle jacket but no motorcycle and 80 rubber duckies but no bathtub.

nancy02664 · Feb 22, 2007

In daily life, I try to avoid swears/curses that have anything to do with religion, for two reasons. First, they have no value to me (just as Cathy mentioned). Second, when I use 'religious' swears, I feel like I'm ceding that certain religious words are somehow powerful/meaningful -- that I'm somehow supporting religion (in a very roundabout way). So, because they have no value, and because I don't want to unwittingly ascribe them any value, I avoid them.

I do agree with what veinglory said -- that referencing religion in daily life doesn't amount to a statement of faith. Still, in practice, I dislike it when religious words/practices seep into my own speech and habits, and I do what I can to prevent this from happening.

In print, I capitalize all proper nouns. I don't always like to do it (I often have this urge to go back and demote the first letters of certain religious words, just to be antagonistic) but I do it anyway. In e-mails and other informal writing, though, it's a totally different story.

Higgins · Feb 22, 2007

OMG

nancy02664 said:
In daily life, I try to avoid swears/curses that have anything to do with religion, for two reasons. First, they have no value to me (just as Cathy mentioned). Second, when I use 'religious' swears, I feel like I'm ceding that certain religious words are somehow powerful/meaningful -- that I'm somehow supporting religion (in a very roundabout way). So, because they have no value, and because I don't want to unwittingly ascribe them any value, I avoid them.

I do agree with what veinglory said -- that referencing religion in daily life doesn't amount to a statement of faith. Still, in practice, I dislike it when religious words/practices seep into my own speech and habits, and I do what I can to prevent this from happening.

In print, I capitalize all proper nouns. I don't always like to do it (I often have this urge to go back and demote the first letters of certain religious words, just to be antagonistic) but I do it anyway. In e-mails and other informal writing, though, it's a totally different story.

Thank God I'm not exactly an athiest (I am strictly Christian in Name Only)!
I would have to give up the pleasures of blaspheumy.

Blastpheumy is no fun unless you have that little zip that comes from knowing that God has not seen fit to assassinate you yet and has not gotten to beat you up after you are dead yet....well...because you aren't dead yet so he can't beat you up after you're dead.

By the way, that is my personal definition of God, the only Person we admire and love for seriously threatening to beat us up after we are dead. You want to say, "Hey, that's a Big step for You, Big Guy, I mean, not beating me up right now but being so cosmically polite as to save my beatings for my post-mortem state."...but geez -US you sure as he***A***ylil**Fi*ul don't REALLY say that. My God, he would kick you around the block for a week for that sort of cosmic infraction. I feel sore just thinking about it.

calamity · Feb 23, 2007

Jesus H Christ -- H as in "Holy"?

shrugs.

But I do capitalize my deity-related curses.

I find it interesting that people would censor an entire part of their vocabulary based on their being atheist. It's kind of weird.

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 23, 2007

calamity said:
Jesus H Christ -- H as in "Holy"?

I've heard the middle initial is F. And no, I'm not going to say what that initial stands for. Besides, I think it's pretty self-explanatory, especially when you put an 'ing' after the initial.

aruna · Feb 28, 2007

Despite my claims to non-theistic spirituality, I do not reject religion or God. In fact, I am open to most religions and greatly enjoy going to a church which has an eloquent and passionate vicar and enthusiastic congregation (I found just such a church in England) or a Hindu or a Buddhist temple. The atmosphere in such places is exquisitie, and a great help tp me.

I don't use any religious terms to swear with. Nor do I use "dirty" words. That's because I feel that words are important and actually alter the mind to reflect what they mean. If I use the word God, I want it to mean exactly that, with all the respect due that word.

When I was a child, raised atheist, I had neverthess a tremendous awe for the word "God". Whenever I heard someone take it in vain to curse or something it would make me cringe and I felt they had done something terrible. It was an instinctive reaction; nobody told me this, and in fact my father always spoke disparagingly of God and religion. That's the way it was.

I've developed a thicker skin now, both in terms of religious swear words and cuss words, but I still never use them myself. I would certainly let my characters use them, though.

loquax · Feb 28, 2007

Science H. Logic!

Rich · Feb 28, 2007

I remember reading something about the word "Golly!"--an innocent white expression--being a distortion of "God's Little Body!" Anybody here have any information on it?

I figure Reph, or Medievalist would have some knowledge of this.

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 28, 2007

Rich said:
I remember reading something about the word "Golly!"--an innocent white expression--being a distortion of "God's Little Body!" Anybody here have any information on it?

I figure Reph, or Medievalist would have some knowledge of this.

I've not heard of that particular one, but I have heard of similiar oaths. They're called 'minced oaths', and I've been rebuked in church for using some because they were considered just as evil as the real word.

In my own case, the oath I got in trouble for, was 'Darn'. Because it was supposedly a child's way of saying 'Damn' it was deemed wrong and I was forced to apologize for it. That was the first time I had ever heard of the term 'minced oath'.

I believe someone gave me a link to a site called 'minced-oaths', but I do not remember the URL. Perhaps Google will be able to help you find it.

Higgins · Feb 28, 2007

La Logique, C'est chique

loquax said:
Science H. Logic!

Or distortions of Logic: Logguodeedodo!!!

benbradley · Feb 28, 2007

Rich said:
I remember reading something about the word "Golly!"--an innocent white expression--being a distortion of "God's Little Body!" Anybody here have any information on it?

I figure Reph, or Medievalist would have some knowledge of this.

I've not heard of that meaning of it, nor of 'minced oaths' as Sean mentioned, but I do recall at age eight or so visiting my aunt and uncle's, seeing a soldering gun in a Popular Mechanics and saying "Go-lleeee" just like Gomer Pyle. My aunt said "Don't say that," I asked why not, and she just said "it's not nice." I had no clue of why it wasn't nice or why she was objecting. Many years later I think I understood where my aunt was coming from: that she a strong Christian, and that "golly" is a euphemism for God, and by saying it I was taking God's name in vain.

veinglory · Mar 4, 2007

Without dirty words and blasphemy how would you swear at all? It has to have some element of transgression to "work".

Melisande · Apr 18, 2007

Ever since I moved to the US my favourite curse has been DANG!, a word I find simply irresistible. I use it often and with immense joy.

However, if I really feel a need to get rough, I use the F word, but spell it out, like; eff-u-cee-kay. It gives me a wonderful satisfaction in situations where I for instance hit my toe or something alike.

So called blasphemous cursing doesn't give me any satisfaction at all, because it doesn't mean anything to me.

Oh, and I got curious about the H and tried to look it up. Found this explanation at Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ

When writing I capitalize God, etc. I do it to show that I don't mean any disrespect.

Higgins · Apr 18, 2007

The IHS

Melisande said:
Ever since I moved to the US my favourite curse has been DANG!, a word I find simply irresistible. I use it often and with immense joy.

However, if I really feel a need to get rough, I use the F word, but spell it out, like; eff-u-cee-kay. It gives me a wonderful satisfaction in situations where I for instance hit my toe or something alike.

So called blasphemous cursing doesn't give me any satisfaction at all, because it doesn't mean anything to me.

Oh, and I got curious about the H and tried to look it up. Found this explanation at Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ

When writing I capitalize God, etc. I do it to show that I don't mean any disrespect.

Hmmmmmm...here's another source on IHS:

http://www.catholicculture.org/lit/overviews/months/01_1.cfm

It seems possible the "H" is a Greek E (eta?). In which case J. E. Christ would be closer to the Divine Name or even J. E. Josephson.

Melisande · Apr 18, 2007

Sokal said:
It seems possible the "H" is a Greek E (eta?). In which case J. E. Christ would be closer to the Divine Name or even J. E. Josephson.

Very interesting, didn't know that. Now I do.

And suddenly the whole thing with a mid initial falls flat to the ground, doesn't it?

Higgins · Apr 18, 2007

A much better Joke though

Melisande said:
Very interesting, didn't know that. Now I do.

And suddenly the whole thing with a mid initial falls flat to the ground, doesn't it?

If you sit in church (Catholic or Episcopal anyway), the pulpit (or perhaps some other "lectionary?") is decorated with a cloth that has "IHS" on it. So if "IHS" is the "Initials of Jesus" then "H" is his middle initial. So it is a good visual joke for church-goers of a certain sort.

Melisande · Apr 18, 2007

Sokal said:
If you sit in church (Catholic or Episcopal anyway), the pulpit (or perhaps some other "lectionary?") is decorated with a cloth that has "IHS" on it. So if "IHS" is the "Initials of Jesus" then "H" is his middle initial. So it is a good visual joke for church-goers of a certain sort.

OK. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I have never been inside a Catholic or Episcopal church and didn't know that.

What I meant with my comment was that when I visited the website you linked to, and when I saw the name of Jesus written with greek letters it just seemed so clear that there shouldn't be a mid initial at all. But of course, that was only a reflection expressed by me. I understand that a tradition of more than 1.700 years has enormous weight.

McDuff · Apr 19, 2007

The H stands for Haploid.

Zoombie · Apr 19, 2007

Someone beat me to the Science H. Logic joke. Dang.

The creepy thing is, after watching a lot of BSG, I've started to swear with "Gods."

Example: The light turns red and we're forced to wait. "Gods damn it!"

I get derezed by an enemy ICP: "Gods damn you!"

One of my freinds drops a hydrogen bomb on Morroco and I lose 5.23 million civlians: "Gods damn it, you f@#!ing son of a bitch!"

And so on.

Oh and before anyone asks: Real Life, Tron 2.0 and Defcon.

StephanieFox · Mar 5, 2008

Ther reason that most of these Anglo-Saxonisms work...

is because of the tension released by the explosive consonant. It's CHE-sus! FarKling Krist! Sh*T! Kawd damn iT! (etc, etc, etc)

This is NOT religion, it's phonetics.

That's why "Martha!" or "Lalalala!" or "Snow!" doesn't work as well and why most people use the other terms.

Can you imagine saying "Martha!" after your car plows into another?

Do you ever think about your curses?

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

wordsmyth

Sean D. Schaffer

Rich

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

veinglory

volitare nequeo

nancy02664

Baby Name Maniac

Higgins

calamity

Sean D. Schaffer

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

loquax

I verb nouns adverbly

Rich

Sean D. Schaffer

Higgins

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Melisande

Higgins

Melisande

Higgins

Melisande

McDuff

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

StephanieFox

Maybull the Bulldog