What would an athiest genre romance look like?

Good one. Perhaps two characteristics would be predominant: first, that what two people achieve together and are to each other here and now would end, here and now, at least for them (no linking up at the great Rally Point); and second, that their fidelity and interactions would be based on simply wanting to do right by the other and make something greater than the sum of its parts, and not in fear of showing up on a cosmic naughty list.

Maybe the protagonists could finalize their love in a civil ceremony. It would be nice to see the conflict involve past relationships that faltered over religious beliefs ("She pictured a fairytale wedding, but he knew he could not go through with a church ceremony..." "His family's deeply-held beliefs scared her; would they ever understand her feelings?")

It's a very scary thing to reveal atheism to a prospective partner who may be religious or at least hold a belief in a supreme being of some sort. ("You aren't serious," he said, "you have to believe in something...")

I think you could really be on to something here.

veinglory said:

I was reading on a blog about someone who wanted to find atheist romance fiction. .... Any ideas?

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Dunno. I have a couple of WIP without spiritual reference but I'm not sure if that would qualify. I would guess that having references to not having faith rather that plainly leaving out any spiritually would be the test.

I suppose (I don't recall having read the genre) that many romance stories could be called secular (as opposed to atheist) in that the topic of religion doesn't come up. When it does and there's a non-believer, the story could turn out different ways. If the non-believer becomes a believer at or before the end of the story, it would almost certainly be considered a religious story. If the non-believer remains a non-believer (but perhaps has "personal growth" in some other direction), even if surrounded by believers, it would be considered an atheist story.

Of course, in either situation the author might show how the character was mistaken to end up the way he or she did, making it a cautionary tale.

There could be a "secular" story in which there's no mention of religion and a couple gets married at the courthouse, but they could do this for "elopment" reasons or wanting a fast, relatively anonymous wedding, rather than not desiring a traditional wedding at a church and a minister performing the ceremony, and thus it is not neccesarily two atheists getting married.

It seems to me any "atheist" story would have to be within the religious context of society (at least in the USA where a large majority of people believe in some sort of Deity), and the atheist character(s) would stand out among others.

This is an interesting question. I guess that I tend to insert religions for most of my characters just because of the "Happily Ever After" requirement of marriage (or at least the promise of marriage.) And too, my co-author is quite happily religious so she often adds things in that make her happy. Now, I did make the hero in a WIP I've been working on an active skeptic (in the true definition sense) so I could probably expand that out to make him atheist. Hmm . . . I'll have to work on that, I think.

I think the "redemption" issue would have to be the same as an anti-hero. The character has to remain true to him/herself, from beginning to end. I presume that would mean a civil ceremony. Maybe a wedding on a ship at sea could work well, romantically speaking.

Sometimes "bending" means a change of perception but in core values, often I have Alpha characters remain as they started, with the OTHER person bending to the core value . . . or at least agreeing to disagree. Often all you get in real life is agreeing to disagree, from religion to politics and beyond. That's the value of love--that it can wash over differences that would otherwise separate people.

Thoughts?

benbradley said:

I suppose (I don't recall having read the genre) that many romance stories could be called secular (as opposed to atheist) in that the topic of religion doesn't come up. When it does and there's a non-believer, the story could turn out different ways. If the non-believer becomes a believer at or before the end of the story, it would almost certainly be considered a religious story. If the non-believer remains a non-believer (but perhaps has "personal growth" in some other direction), even if surrounded by believers, it would be considered an atheist story.

Of course, in either situation the author might show how the character was mistaken to end up the way he or she did, making it a cautionary tale.
It seems to me any "atheist" story would have to be within the religious context of society (at least in the USA where a large majority of people believe in some sort of Deity), and the atheist character(s) would stand out among others.

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Well...any kind of conversion can be interesting. In Elizabeth Gaskel's North and South everything hinges on the fact that the MC's father "loses his faith" which doesn't mean he becomes an atheiest, but that he stops being an Anglican. I would think that some kind of not-easily resolvable religious conflict in a romance might be interesting.

IMO, the ultimate thing in a marriage should be the love the two individuals have for one another. If one person is atheist and the other is not, my personal viewpoint is that their love for one another should be unconditional. I've seen people talk about--especially within a particular religion I was raised in--not marrying someone who did not believe in the said religion.

So basically to me, the idea of one character tolerating the other character's religion (or lack thereof) would be of paramount importance in the kind of romance you're mentioning, Veinglory. Religion or the lack thereof can actually be, as we've all seen here, a major hot-spot for arguments and stuff like that. So the decision on both their parts to respect the other person's belief, I think, could make for some excellent storytelling and a nice amount of conflict within your work.

I hope this helps, and I wish you the very best with your project.

Avoid making your male love interest a Catholic priest and you're half way there.

veinglory said:

Although I would guess that atheist readers may have had more practice identifying with religious heroes than vice versa?

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I would be inclined to think that unless a character was blatantly pro or anti something no one would notice. As in life we seldom learn the faith orientation of those we meet, and often it is not really an issue.

gay-were-bishops munching on disoriented fly traps would be an issue (private joke)

veinglory said:

Although I would guess that atheist readers may have had more practise identifying with religious heroes than vice versa?

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That could very well be the problem, Veinglory. It's not easy, from what experience I've had in the subject, for a religious individual to reconcile another person's lack of religion. Whereas, like you pointed out, it's probably much easier for an atheist to reconcile another person's faith in a particular deity.

This actually, IMO, could be a good exercise for you, as a writer. The best works, by my own estimation, are the ones that challenge the usual conventional wisdom. At first they might not be well-received because of religious animosity on some readers' part. But I still think the challenge to tolerate other people and their beliefs is really what's going to make or break your work.

I guess the point I'm making is, the issue is not so much religion versus lack of religion, as it is tolerance on both characters' part.


In any case, I don't think you're a coward at all for your sitting back and thinking more on this, Veinglory. I think you're being careful and taking into account everything that needs to be dealt with concerning your work. No cowardice here, but rather common sense. I'm sure whatever your decision is at the last, it will be the right one for you.

Good luck to you.

veinglory said:

Strangely enough one story I am working on at the moment is a speculative fic romance in a future time where theist religion has become largely extinct. The hero feels the need for religion and unearths an underground neoChristian group but in this time the Bible has been completely lost and so there is no doctrine in existence--only the feeling some people have that there is a deity.

I hadn't given it much thought but I suspect this story concept isn't about religion per se, but about being a religious/areligious minority--especially when falling in love with a member of the majority.

Hmmm.

What a busy little unconscious mind I must have. It is kind of fun to try and represent a world when every trace of religion has been erased. And no, it isn't a utopia or a distopia--just a...topia.

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I seem to remember a book about just such a situation, except in this case, the whole world had become Catholic. I wish I remembered the name of the book, but I do remember something about freedom fighters, fighting the Roman Catholic Church for the right to exist or something to that effect.

I wish my unconscious mind was half as busy as yours. I'd be writing up a storm by now.

Re: "What would an athiest genre romance look like."

I was reading on a blog about someone who wanted to find atheist romance fiction.

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What therefore man hath joined together, let not God put asunder.

No one could scream Oh God Oh God Oh God!!!

C.bronco said:

No one could scream Oh God Oh God Oh God!!!

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The old joke is they (we?) scream "Oh my Nonexistent Supreme Being!"

veinglory said:

Meaning?

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(presumably referring to "What therefore man hath joined together, let not God put asunder.")
It's an "inversion" of (googling...) the verse from Mark 10:9, which I recognize as one of the KJV verses commonly spoken at wedding ceremonies.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Mark+10:9

veinglory said:

I got the sources I was just tryong to puzzle out the point. But then I tend to over think things...

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I know how that goes; I do the same thing. I think I might understand the meaning, but as I'm not the poster in question, I cannot be certain.

Still, I thought it was a witty comment. Interesting take on the subject at hand.

Some dude is looking for an atheist romance? Don't think so but it sounds like fun. Set it at a college. She could be the only athiest on campus and he could be the star sophmore seven foot wonder. She is on scholarship challenged by an evangelist who said she was going to give her the opportunity to put her lack of faith to the test. She gets into debates with professors and everyone looks at her. It could have a nice sports ending with her seven foot wonder winning the big game.


Thats a lot of nuts for just two cents.

Meaning?

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Its a joke. I hate to explain a joke, but since it relates to your thread, I will.

What I said is a twist of a bible verse that condemns divorce:
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

By twisting it, I intended it to essentially say: "What people do with thier romantic lives is none of God's business."

Now, If I was an Athiest, there would be nothing more to it than that. But I am a Christian. And as a Christian, I conceived the idea in sarcasm, as well as humor. Therefore, yesterday, when I first thought of it, I said to myself, "I have only come here to see what these people talk about. I need to be respectful, and avoid antagonizing anybody." But as some time went by, I thought it was just too funny to leave alone. I thought about taking it to the humor forum and presenting it within its context. But I knew it would lose its funniness (if it is indeed, funny) with too much periphery, just as it has now. So, what I conceived in sarcasm, was manifested only for what humor value it may have, nothing more. I hope that you are laughing, not cursing.

I'm not writing a romance, but when my characters marry in a civil ceremony, the MC brings his own bible which turns out to be a copy of Dawkins The Ancestors Tale covered in a stretchy bible cover he picked up at a Catholic head shop.

I got the idea from my sister, who was told to bring a special family bible for her swearing in as postmaster. She brought a dictionary.

Nobody noticed.

What a fascinating idea for a story, Devil! That idea just might come in handy in a future book.