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fatal knife thrust
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Depends on where you hit the guy(?) with the knife. Heart is, I believe, possible from that angle but difficult. Same goes for the liver, though it's an easier target.
A fatal knife stroke may come from behind an individual, but should be made with left hand, striking at an angle upwards from below the ribs and going towards the heart.
A better way yet to attack with a knife from behind is to slit the persons throat, being carefull not to cut too deeply into the windpipe (can make a horrible sound), a long cut would sever cartoroid and Jugular veins, other hand should be over mouth to prevent outcry.
No, I'm not a killer, this kind of stuff was taught to us in the military.
Festus
A better way yet to attack with a knife from behind is to slit the persons throat, being carefull not to cut too deeply into the windpipe (can make a horrible sound), a long cut would sever cartoroid and Jugular veins, other hand should be over mouth to prevent outcry.
No, I'm not a killer, this kind of stuff was taught to us in the military.
Festus
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I wouldn't question this if I read it in a story. Expert killers would thrust beneath the ribcage and angle the blade upwards to reach the heart/aorta. Instant blood pressure drop is likely to cause unconsciousness and, in a short time, death. Wounds to the kidneys or lungs might not be instantly fatal but are dangerous and certainly debilitating. Nervous shock might also kill the victim even if the killer missed a vital organ. So many variants -- knife type, killer's strength, blah blah. And the victim may struggle. For a silent kill, as Festus suggests, the neck is vulnerable... clap your hand over the victim's mouth, pull the head back to expose the throat-- 
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How fast to they have to die?
How long is the knife? How big is the blade? How slow/fast does the death need to be? What era?
If you manage to drive a short, broad knife blade into the spinal column at the base of the neck or (easier) upward into the base of the skull, they will die real fast!
Look at an anatomy book ... for a bleeding death from the back, you have to get past the ribs, spine and shoulder blades to a major vein, artery or the heart. If you nick the pericardium, they can die rather slowly of "cardiac tamponade".
If you just manage to puncture a lung, they MIGHT bleed to death internally (lungs fill with blood), or might get "pneumothorax" which is slowly fatal.
If you want slow agonizing death, anything that slices into the intestines will cause peritonitis (infection in the abdominal cavity). Pre-antibiotics, death was certain. Even now, it's quite likely unless the victim gets great surgical and antibiotic therapy.
How long is the knife? How big is the blade? How slow/fast does the death need to be? What era?
If you manage to drive a short, broad knife blade into the spinal column at the base of the neck or (easier) upward into the base of the skull, they will die real fast!
Look at an anatomy book ... for a bleeding death from the back, you have to get past the ribs, spine and shoulder blades to a major vein, artery or the heart. If you nick the pericardium, they can die rather slowly of "cardiac tamponade".
If you just manage to puncture a lung, they MIGHT bleed to death internally (lungs fill with blood), or might get "pneumothorax" which is slowly fatal.
If you want slow agonizing death, anything that slices into the intestines will cause peritonitis (infection in the abdominal cavity). Pre-antibiotics, death was certain. Even now, it's quite likely unless the victim gets great surgical and antibiotic therapy.
pointy things with sharp edges
Doesn’t that depend on what’s best for the story?
If the victim needs to be dispatched quickly, the strike can be as efficient or miraculous as you want to make it. An X-Acto knife might do it for your fictional purposes, but so might a Ka-Bar.
The Festus answer would suffice for the Ka-Bar, for instance, but not the X-Acto. Yet with a good Kukri, your character could, with one swipe, lop off a guy’s noggin and kick it to the curb. (So I’m told.)
For realism, though, the answer probably has more to do with what Cav Guy said. All depends upon the details which, here, are not supplied.
For instance:
Where “into the back” is the victim stabbed?
With what kind of knife? X-Acto? Ka-Bar? Butter?
What’s the angle of blade to ribs if the knife enters there? Knifers say blades will get stuck in the ribs if this angle is perpendicular to them upon entry, but they’ll slip right through if that angle is parallel. In the first case, the chances of fatality are zero. In the second case ... depends on what’s cut or gets a hole poked in it.
How close is the victim to medical care, and what’s the likelihood the victim will get it?
Stabbing someone in the back while in an LA ER will, perhaps, have a different terminal effect than doing so while stranded in the Gobi desert -- and this difference may or may not be magnified by the use of an X-Acto or a Ka-Bar, all depending upon what the story needs, which reminds me that I’m back to where I started...
(Apparently I don’t really have answers, just questions.)
Doesn’t that depend on what’s best for the story?
If the victim needs to be dispatched quickly, the strike can be as efficient or miraculous as you want to make it. An X-Acto knife might do it for your fictional purposes, but so might a Ka-Bar.
The Festus answer would suffice for the Ka-Bar, for instance, but not the X-Acto. Yet with a good Kukri, your character could, with one swipe, lop off a guy’s noggin and kick it to the curb. (So I’m told.)
For realism, though, the answer probably has more to do with what Cav Guy said. All depends upon the details which, here, are not supplied.
For instance:
Where “into the back” is the victim stabbed?
With what kind of knife? X-Acto? Ka-Bar? Butter?
What’s the angle of blade to ribs if the knife enters there? Knifers say blades will get stuck in the ribs if this angle is perpendicular to them upon entry, but they’ll slip right through if that angle is parallel. In the first case, the chances of fatality are zero. In the second case ... depends on what’s cut or gets a hole poked in it.
How close is the victim to medical care, and what’s the likelihood the victim will get it?
Stabbing someone in the back while in an LA ER will, perhaps, have a different terminal effect than doing so while stranded in the Gobi desert -- and this difference may or may not be magnified by the use of an X-Acto or a Ka-Bar, all depending upon what the story needs, which reminds me that I’m back to where I started...
(Apparently I don’t really have answers, just questions.)
Unless the knifeman knows exactly what they are doing, the small of the back is the best target as the kidneys are more easily accessible - the ribcage can turn aside a blade if you go higher. (In the same way a heavy blow across the lower back can rupture the kidneys.) Death is pretty fast.
An underhand stroke is best - you can put more force behind the blow- the knife is twisted in the wound to maximize tissue damage and minimise suction so that you get your knife back.
If they're relatively good and know the angle, there is a place at the base of the skull that works from behind - minimal bleeding, minimal pain, fairly fast on killing. A short 3 inch blade could be used for this; I'd recommend longer for the kidney shot as you've got to get past a certain amount of padding.
Keep in mind that most stabbings result in a portion of the blade being left in the wound; especially if bone is struck, and if the person doing the stabbing isn't carefull they will probably cut themselves.
An underhand stroke is best - you can put more force behind the blow- the knife is twisted in the wound to maximize tissue damage and minimise suction so that you get your knife back.
If they're relatively good and know the angle, there is a place at the base of the skull that works from behind - minimal bleeding, minimal pain, fairly fast on killing. A short 3 inch blade could be used for this; I'd recommend longer for the kidney shot as you've got to get past a certain amount of padding.
Keep in mind that most stabbings result in a portion of the blade being left in the wound; especially if bone is struck, and if the person doing the stabbing isn't carefull they will probably cut themselves.
I actually discussed this with a guy I knew used to be in special forces. He informs me that the preferred method for silent killing with a knife was thrusting up and into the kidneys.
I am not advocating this method, just passing on info that I heard.
I am not advocating this method, just passing on info that I heard.
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I am the only girl in a family of military men. There are two things my dad taught me from the time I was 13:
1. Never date a man who will buy jewelry for you in the same place he buys motor oil and fishing gear.
2. The way to a man's heart is not through his stomach. It's between his third and fourth rib, and an upward, twisting motion is most effective.
1. Never date a man who will buy jewelry for you in the same place he buys motor oil and fishing gear.
2. The way to a man's heart is not through his stomach. It's between his third and fourth rib, and an upward, twisting motion is most effective.
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As we say "6 inches to please a lady, 6 inches to kill a man."
Do you have to use a knife for the kill? What's the situation that you need to do this?
Do you have to use a knife for the kill? What's the situation that you need to do this?
Oh, my ...
Sounds like me, right now ... reading this thread has made me woozy ... going down, folks ...
Sounds like me, right now ... reading this thread has made me woozy ... going down, folks ...
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Okay. Sorry I left so much out. Here we go. Killer and victim are both about 5'10". Butterfly or switchblade. Reason for the back is because I want the killer to attempt similar attack on another character but proposed victim is wearing kevlar vest. I'm looking for repeated style of attack working in case one and failing in case two.
Also in case one, death doesn't have to be quick or silent, but must be almost instantly incapacitating.
Again, thanks for all the feedback.
Also in case one, death doesn't have to be quick or silent, but must be almost instantly incapacitating.
Again, thanks for all the feedback.
Kevlar vests are made to stop bullets, not a killing thrust from a blade. Different stress force, etc.; & unless the blade hit the ceramic plate...
Using a knife is up close & personal, and it would be very likely the knifeman could find the gaps in the vest. The small of the back is usually unprotected with these, as well as the line from armpit (also a good killing spot) to waist.
Using a knife is up close & personal, and it would be very likely the knifeman could find the gaps in the vest. The small of the back is usually unprotected with these, as well as the line from armpit (also a good killing spot) to waist.
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Ok, here's my input..............kinda graphic, so if your not into the bloody details (literally) skip it.
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The only problem I see with those two blades are that they're usually crap. Poorly made. Some are really nice though. The other thing is make sure the blade is sharp. Nothing worse than trying to kill with a dull blade. That'll reduce it's puncture ability. Specially if the victim/target is wearing heavy or multiple layers of clothing.
If it's too sharp, the victim/target may not feel the cut right away. When I was stabbed, the cut was so sharp and quick, I thought the guy had missed me. Same if your cutting someone else. Of course, after the nerves kick in, it's very painful. Like a big time papercut with attitude.
I'd only use if a knife if I didn't have other killing means available. As Sharra mentioned, kevlar is meant to stop bullets not blades.........BUT...........they do have some vests that are designed for blade deterrence and bullet stopping. Of course, it's not as good as those designed soley for one or the other.
For kevlar vests, such as the kind the military is using, they have plates that now go under the armpit to reduce the area opening.
Stabbings can be fairly clean, and quick if your hollywood. From my expierence, they aren't.
Last year we were in firefight that was intense and long. In the course of fighting we had broken up into smaller groups. I ran out of ammo and my mates were running low. At one point we went hand to hand. One of the insurgents was turned sideways and shooting one of our guys. I was out of ammo and had a knife. I stabbed the guy in the side of the neck and jerked it out to the front. I had a bad angle and he was moving away from me. Took him about a two minutes to bleed out. Blood was spurting out everywhere, like a little fountain till his pressure dropped, and then it was a trickle.
Now, that's enough time for him to turn and shoot at me, which he did. He even made noise calling out.......though it was kinda rough sounding. So, the throat kill isn't that wonderful in my opinion. It's messy, ugly, and rather brutal.
Lets see...........that's it for the time I've got right now.
Hope it helps.
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The only problem I see with those two blades are that they're usually crap. Poorly made. Some are really nice though. The other thing is make sure the blade is sharp. Nothing worse than trying to kill with a dull blade. That'll reduce it's puncture ability. Specially if the victim/target is wearing heavy or multiple layers of clothing.
If it's too sharp, the victim/target may not feel the cut right away. When I was stabbed, the cut was so sharp and quick, I thought the guy had missed me. Same if your cutting someone else. Of course, after the nerves kick in, it's very painful. Like a big time papercut with attitude.
I'd only use if a knife if I didn't have other killing means available. As Sharra mentioned, kevlar is meant to stop bullets not blades.........BUT...........they do have some vests that are designed for blade deterrence and bullet stopping. Of course, it's not as good as those designed soley for one or the other.
For kevlar vests, such as the kind the military is using, they have plates that now go under the armpit to reduce the area opening.
Stabbings can be fairly clean, and quick if your hollywood. From my expierence, they aren't.
Last year we were in firefight that was intense and long. In the course of fighting we had broken up into smaller groups. I ran out of ammo and my mates were running low. At one point we went hand to hand. One of the insurgents was turned sideways and shooting one of our guys. I was out of ammo and had a knife. I stabbed the guy in the side of the neck and jerked it out to the front. I had a bad angle and he was moving away from me. Took him about a two minutes to bleed out. Blood was spurting out everywhere, like a little fountain till his pressure dropped, and then it was a trickle.
Now, that's enough time for him to turn and shoot at me, which he did. He even made noise calling out.......though it was kinda rough sounding. So, the throat kill isn't that wonderful in my opinion. It's messy, ugly, and rather brutal.
Lets see...........that's it for the time I've got right now.
Hope it helps.
"they do have some vests that are designed for blade deterrence"
Prisons guards wear them. It's much easier to make a shank in prison, than smuggle in a gun.
Prisons guards wear them. It's much easier to make a shank in prison, than smuggle in a gun.
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Yep........same as the gloves designed to keep your fingers snap when doing pat downs.
Of course, did you hear about those guys in.........Brazil? or Argentina. Someplace down there...........that had 4 cells phones and a charger in his rectum? Imagine you can get a small ACP there as well.
Talk about having junk in his trunk.
Of course, did you hear about those guys in.........Brazil? or Argentina. Someplace down there...........that had 4 cells phones and a charger in his rectum? Imagine you can get a small ACP there as well.
Talk about having junk in his trunk.
You need to think about the CSI stuff too. With a knife, there's no bullet left behind, but lots of blood and hair/fibers can transfer. You need to think about the pscyhology too. Typically, the knife is choosen by the angry or sadistic killer. The knife often has sexual implications in the killer's pscyhology. Or the killer could just be too poor to afford a gun.
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And ideally if they have trained people they can tell what kind of cutting edge, and type of weapon it is.
And if the weapon has a blood groove, and the user doesn't clean it, or if the blood gets into shaft of the switchblade or the joints of butterfly then you have victim DNA there.
You can always make the blade a crappy tijunna special that breaks off in the victim leaving more evidence.
So many good things.
Badda bing!
Oh sure, I stab some guy one time and I'm a killer.........sheesh.........now I'm typecast. My therapist said there'd be days like this.
Nothing personal. Of all the people I know who have stabbed some one, you are by far the nicest.
And good luck. It sounds like things are about to heat up over there.
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I was just pulling your leg.
I knew you were referring to the ner-do-well criminal elements.
Heat up even more? Shoot, I didn't think things had cooled down.
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Wow. Amazing feedback. I hadn't thought of the psychosexual aspects.
How about this? Victim One has his throat cut from behind, as per Festus and Tish. Victim Two is wearing kevlar under a loose jacket. It's dark. Killer has no other remaining weapon. Victim is moving away from killer, unaware of killer's location. Killer approaches from the rear, lunges, stabs into kevlar. Even if kevlar made for bullets, surely SOME kind of deflection takes place. YesNo?
How about this? Victim One has his throat cut from behind, as per Festus and Tish. Victim Two is wearing kevlar under a loose jacket. It's dark. Killer has no other remaining weapon. Victim is moving away from killer, unaware of killer's location. Killer approaches from the rear, lunges, stabs into kevlar. Even if kevlar made for bullets, surely SOME kind of deflection takes place. YesNo?
Depends on if that vest is straight kevlar or has a ceramic plate in it. If it's just kevlar a good knife will go right through it. Although, it may take more than one thrust/stab to get the kill.
What kind of knife are we talking here? Switch blade? Ka-bar? Sykes-Fairbain commando dagger? Homemade shiv? Something with saw teeth that may hang up on cartilage, etc. on the backstroke/withdrawal?
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