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View Full Version : Guys, let's respond



Rabe
02-20-2007, 07:35 AM
Because of the "Ladies, I Need Your Help" thread I thought I'd start one of my own wherein we answered it:

But there's only one thing that needs be said:

Ladies, we are guys - we are NOT you, stop trying to make us into you!

(and if I wanted to do a second, I'd say - listen to the boiled down substance of your own advice and apply it to yourself as well. Not the niggling, nagging crap such as "I'm not your assistant" but the "I'm a person with my own personality, bearing, etc.," and realize so are we. If you date/live with/marry or stay with us, then perhaps you should realize that you have chosen to date/live with/marry or stay with someone who has these foibles that you find so frikken irritating and stop projecting your own irritation at your choice upon us!)

Rabe...
...who has never been married because he refuses to admit that it's all his fault...

Mandy-Jane
02-20-2007, 08:05 AM
Let me just respond on behalf of the ladies, if I may.

This thread was not about complaining about our husbands/partners and the way that they irritate us. The original question was to write down anything that you wished your husband realised about you. It just so happens that in most cases the things we wish he realised are things that you seem to perceive as complaints.

We are not trying to turn them into us. I'm sure none of us would want that. Yes we all know that our husbands/partners are not perfect (as neither are we), and it's not that we find these foibles "frikken irritating" as you so charmingly put it; we are just talking about things that come up in our day to day lives. You are more than welcome to start up a thread directed to all the men here. I for one would read it with interest.

Lastly, I'm not certain what you mean by "stop projecting your own irritation at your choice upon us!" I think you basically mean, stop complaining because you chose us and now you have to live with us.

But to make you feel better, I'll respond with a couple of "things my husband probably wishes I realised":

1. Leaving my socks next to the dirty clothes hamper instead of in it is better than leaving them on the bedroom floor.

2. Sometimes if I don't listen to you, it's because I'm thinking about some issues that came up at work today.

3. I spend this much time at work because I need to earn money to feed you.

4. I go outside for a wee because I can, and I'm saving water by not having to flush so often.

Okay that's all I can think of for now.

Little Red Barn
02-20-2007, 08:13 AM
Because of the "Ladies, I Need Your Help" thread I thought I'd start one of my own wherein we answered it:

But there's only one thing that needs be said:

Ladies, we are guys - we are NOT you, stop trying to make us into you!

(and if I wanted to do a second, I'd say - listen to the boiled down substance of your own advice and apply it to yourself as well. Not the niggling, nagging crap such as "I'm not your assistant" but the "I'm a person with my own personality, bearing, etc.," and realize so are we. If you date/live with/marry or stay with us, then perhaps you should realize that you have chosen to date/live with/marry or stay with someone who has these foibles that you find so frikken irritating and stop projecting your own irritation at your choice upon us!)

Rabe...
...who has never been married because he refuses to admit that it's all his fault...
Rabe, I think this is kinda sweet--you guys have a voice too ;)

Sean D. Schaffer
02-20-2007, 08:21 AM
My curiosity is why this thread is even in the Story Research: Experts and Interviewees Wanted section. To me, this sounds more like either OP or TIO material.

But just to keep the focus on-track, I--as a man--can see where a lot of ladies are bothered by our habits. I mean, we all had a mother, I'm sure. I remember my mother always telling me to clean my room and keep myself clean, and having every right to expect such things from me. Why shouldn't a wife expect those same things of her husband?

Now granted, I've not looked at the thread Rabe originally mentioned in the original post. But I do know a lot of the complaints women have about men, because they're so commonly known via TV and the Internet, etc. I don't see these gripes as illegitimate by any stretch of the imagination... unless a woman asks me to change everything about myself that I can change, just so she can be happy with me.

But I don't see such massive need to change everything about me in most women. Certainly, I don't find that problem with my present girlfriend.

Besides that, it's kind of expected in a marriage relationship that both sides make compromises in their own lives to make the marriage work. If you have to live together, you might as well at least try to accomodate to an extent your spouse.

Southern_girl29
02-20-2007, 08:53 AM
I started the other thread. It wasn't a put down for other men, and it actually is for research. I'm working on my query now for men's magazines about a piece titled "What Your Wife/Girlfriend Wishes You Knew About Them." That's why I put it in story research/interviewees, because I wanted to a little research on it.

I also posted this on another board I go to and more than one women answered with, "I wish you knew how much I appreciated the fact that you are still attracted to me even though I've gained a lot of weight since we married."

You know, that's not a put down at all.

Rabe
02-21-2007, 08:48 AM
I started the other thread. It wasn't a put down for other men, and it actually is for research. I'm working on my query now for men's magazines about a piece titled "What Your Wife/Girlfriend Wishes You Knew About Them." That's why I put it in story research/interviewees, because I wanted to a little research on it.

I also posted this on another board I go to and more than one women answered with, "I wish you knew how much I appreciated the fact that you are still attracted to me even though I've gained a lot of weight since we married."

You know, that's not a put down at all.

The reason I didn't post in your thread is I didn't want to distract from your research for your article. But then again, articles such as this - I discard and don't even read, and find highly suspect any magazine aimed at a male audience that prints them.

Whether you intend to or not, it does become male bashing of the 'we poor, pitiful, neglected, underappreciated females' type. Instead of writing yet another COSMO-esque article about 'what men should know about women' why not write something better that gives *women* advice on how to communicate their needs to their men instead?

It also needs to be acknowledged that men and women are biologically, culturally and socially different. Such as a few in your thread said "I just want to talk, I don't want you to fix my problems". Well, guys talk to find a way to fix things. And just sitting around listening to a litany of woes doesn't do *us* any good if there is no chance to fix it. We consider it to be *bitching*. So, you want to have someone just to 'chat' with without suggestions or advice on how to 'fix' the problem, then go find a girlfriend.

So why shouldn't we guys be able to have a say in this? You want to create an article about 'what women want guys to realize about us' why not have an article that is 'what your partner wants you to realize about them' instead? Do a balanced, perspective thing. For every "just listen to me" put in a "I want to fix what's wrong" deal.

For every "I love you for loving me even though I've gained weight" there's also the "I love *you* not for your body" comment. Instead of having another list of male bashing, have something positive come out of it.

And yes, I did read your thread and I did find some of them sweet, charming, amusing and downright funny. But I also found it to be another in a long line of male bashing escapades that would be completely dismissed as 'sexist' if genders were reversed.

Rabe...

MacAllister
02-21-2007, 09:12 AM
Rabe, this is out of line and bordering on an attack. She's writing an article. It's frankly not for you to tell her what sort of article to research or pitch.

If you want to write an article you perceive as more balanced, then go for it.

Sohia Rose
02-21-2007, 06:58 PM
.. Ladies, we are guys - we are NOT you, stop trying to make us into you! ...

If guys were like women, I certainly wouldn't be married. That's for sure. :)

Histry Nerd
02-22-2007, 07:29 PM
I read the other thread. I found nothing offensive, and quite a few things amusing, in it. Of course, there were a few times I had to stop myself from saying "But... that's because... but... but...!" You get the picture.

Men and women are different. Wonderfully so. But when you take a marriage vow, you promise before God to stand by someone through, in a nutshell, the good and the bad--and often you have to get through the bad to get to the good. That requires compromise, and some degree of understanding in both directions.

It's my experience in ten years of marriage (a lot more than some, a lot less than others) that women stay with us because they can see something attractive even through all the flaws. They spend the years polishing, in hopes of wearing down the flaws so whatever they saw in the first place can shine through. We call the polishing process "bitching" and "nagging". But we stick around because at best, it beats the hell out of the alternative, and at worst, we took a vow before God.

A woman nags because she wants the man she fell in love with to come out more often--not because she wants to change him. Put another way, if your mate is trying to change you (or vice versa), you both picked wrong.

At least that's my take. Manly man? Hell no. I'm a married man. I can be both, but if it comes down to the choice, I'll pick married over manly any day.

HN

Sohia Rose
02-22-2007, 07:58 PM
That was beautiful Histry Nerd. :)

My husband is stubborn, and every so often I get to tell him, not in a nagging way, but in an honest, playful way. He says, "Then why do you stay with me?" I say, "'Cause stubborn men need love too."

Bravo
02-22-2007, 08:00 PM
lamest. thread. ever.

aka eraser
02-22-2007, 08:22 PM
lamest. thread. ever.

I think someone needs a hug!

Tiger
02-22-2007, 10:28 PM
Can I have one?

Rabe
02-23-2007, 06:34 AM
They spend the years polishing, in hopes of wearing down the flaws so whatever they saw in the first place can shine through. We call the polishing process "bitching" and "nagging". But we stick around because at best, it beats the hell out of the alternative, and at worst, we took a vow before God.


I disagree.

I made the choice a long time ago that marriage would be something that would not happen unless it could be meaningful and last. All of my experiences, from the people I've dated to the women I've lived with (including roommates) showed me that marriage would not last.

So, do I get 'married' because it's societally expected or do I chose to be unmarried and still happy?

After reading both threads, I'm only more convinced that I've still made the right choice. (Of course the women I've dated have also been very convincing in that regard - but that also says something about the women I'm attracted to, and if I ever figure out what that is, then I can work on changing it.)

But some of the comments on that other thread (some, not all) surprise me that people stay with the posters. If they're willing to be that nasty in public, with strangers, about their husbands? I can only shudder to think what it's like living with them.

Rabe...

Mandy-Jane
02-23-2007, 07:21 AM
Rabe

It sounds to me like you expect a marriage to be absolutely perfect every minute of every day. We all have fights; we all have disagreements; we all have traits and mannerisms that annoy the hell out of our partners. We all do. Doesn't mean that the marriage is not meaningful and won't last. If you're after a relationship where nobody ever gets annoyed and everyone's happy and content all the time, you won't find one.

And there was no real nastiness in any of those threads. If you'd been in a significant, long-term relationship with someone, you would know that.

I think you've misunderstood the original thread that started all this, and you've certaintly misunderstood the replies.

Histry Nerd
02-23-2007, 08:05 AM
I made the choice a long time ago that marriage would be something that would not happen unless it could be meaningful and last.

I'm with you on that, Rabe. I made the same choice. But it doesn't last unless both of you are willing to fight for it.


So, do I get 'married' because it's societally expected or do I chose to be unmarried and still happy?

If this is how you see your choice, by all means stay single. I did not marry because it was socially acceptable; I married because I found a woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I chose pretty well, I think--I still want to be with her until I die.

That isn't to say all is milk and honey and roses. I have (at least) my fair share of warts, and my wife has hers, but we work around them, even burn some of them off. It is hard work--not just marriage, but any long-term committed relationship. There are days we don't like each other. But even those days, when both of us seriously wonder what life would be like if we were not together, we stay.

Why? For my part, it's usually because I can't imagine being complete without her by my side. On the worst of days, when she's made me so mad I can't remember any of the good stuff--and it's happened a couple of times--I stay because I took a vow before God. Society's expectations had nothing to do with it, but I'm not one to break that vow just because I'm angry.

If you haven't found a woman you think is worth that, you're right to stay single.

HN

Rabe
02-24-2007, 04:55 AM
If you haven't found a woman you think is worth that, you're right to stay single.

History,

That is almost exactly what I'm looking for. Do I expect it all to be milk and roses? That would be completely unrealistic - but to have someone calling me a slob to a bunch of strangers in a public forum? I think not. That's nastiness way beyond just getting irritated with someone. That's pure nastiness.

Also, there's something a lot of people don't seem to realize and it came out a lot on that other thread - if you want someone to do something, then you have to let them do it and not expect them to do it YOUR way. If you want it done YOUR way - do it yourself and don't bitch.

The problem I have with marriage/relationships is that it seems spouses (for the most part)feel they have the ability to say or do whatever they want to/about their partners and they have to be forgiven. Then when they've crossed a unforgiveable line don't understand why. Again, how many people who post such things as "my version of clean is different than yours ... you're a slob" would like the same thing said about them? And would they be upset if it were said about them? If so, maybe they should consider themselves.

Which is my point from the beginning...people marry someone else and then the next thing you know they're complaining about that person and all their foibles...the same ones they knew about before marrying/moving in with/etc. So what do most of the 'other thread' people want? To change their spouse into them. Some do it with humor and caring - some were just downright nasty. But in the end, it's all male bashing - which, again, women wouldn't like if the genders were reversed.

And yes, this does come from personal experience. Lots of it.

Rabe...

The_Grand_Duchess
02-24-2007, 05:25 AM
I feel I have to respond becuase you're talking about my post. I did say he was a slob. . . becuase he is. And he knows it. It wasn't in a mean and nasty way, it was just a statement. Our versions of clean ARE very diffrent from eachother and I have learned to live with some of his rules (like some clothes can be worn twice before a wash), he has learned to live with mine (the sponge for the dishes is ONLY for the dishes), but we still struggle with stuff when it comes to the cleaning. Like picking up after yourself.

I also have many great things to say about him. How he trys to make time to take the baby so I can write or do some of my classwork. How he encourged me to start writing again when everyone else thought it was a waste of time. How he feeds my cats tunafish when we run out of catfood even though he hates them and loves tuna fish. How he wakes up in the middle of the night to check the house becuase I heard a noise which in all likelyhood was probably the cats. But he knows I appreciate these things becuase I tell him.

The thread wasn't about things that I tell him all the time, it was about things that I wish he knew about meaning I don't harp on him being a slob around the house or spending a little too much time on the playstation or really any of the things that I listed becuase in the long run it's not important. It would make life a little nicer for me if we were on the same page about cleaning but the truth of the matter is I love him dispite the fact that he is a slob. I love him and want to be with even though he can't remember to pay things on time.

We're not asking our spouses/signifigant others to change. Picking up after yourself, watching the kids more, not peeing outside are just little things to make our life easier with you. In the same way I'm sure he would like me to stop making piles of used tissues when I'm sick and learn to actully cook. Pick up a new habit, gain some life skills, sure we want that but that doesn't mean we want them to change who they are. These things are just irratating, not relationship ending.

I didn't even feel that it was male bashing at all. I don't think my spouse would feel that way if he read it becuase he understands that men and women aren't perfect. Like I said, he has complaints about me all the time. Like how I'm afraid of the basement and won't do laundry. But we're still together becuase it doens't matter. We love eachother.

greglondon
02-24-2007, 05:38 AM
Rabe, the divorce rate is something like 50% or so. So, I don't see anything wrong with making sure you're ready before you get married. Statistically, it would seem that a lot of people marry before they're ready. The one thing I would say is that if you're ready, you'll attract (and be attracted to) the sort of people who are ready. If you're not ready, you'll attract (and be attracted to) the sort of people who are not ready. I don't have any hard proof to support that, but it seems to hold to my observations.